2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado - Page 4
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Thanks skexius for the link and sorry for the PM, now my mail box is available. I checked the pictures ...
  1. #46
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Thanks skexius for the link and sorry for the PM, now my mail box is available.
    I checked the pictures and as attractive as 20K miles would be...that car had it rough.
    I noticed (although the pictures are conveniently low resolution):
    1) The dash pad is shrinking (99% of the cars have it, including the $33K one)
    2) The bumpers are scratched (all corners)
    3) There was something in the right side, the door seems funny and the lower door molding is off.
    4) Try to find a good picture of the driver's seat (probably there is a reason).
    5) The car is from Virginia (east coast too far north).

    Unfortunately for that car I would pay no more than $9.5K, it is interesting but is not quite in the same league I am looking for.
    On the other hand the red one pictured above, well that is exactly what I am looking for.
    Keep them coming though!

  2. #47
    STS_Seville_Hunter is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Good grief.
    THe accident was bad; the roof even buckled no way to get the dash pad off. Too bad someone beat me to the seats.

  3. #48
    jrwoods's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Still looking? 2002 alpine white 51k miles.

    Not sure what the story is, but if someone is in Florida, could you punch the fool who put the ill-fitting grille on?
    Gosh thats terrible looking, why would somebody do that? Must have been in a front end accident is all i can think of.

  4. #49
    Yaemish is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    I don't know if anyone said this yet. The 2002 model did get a special exhaust. However, it didn't add power. It just changed the harmonics a bit. It doesn't have any chip that changes it from any other 2002 STS/ETC.

  5. #50
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Well the guy trying to sell the Eldorado I was looking at (in the first page of the thread) claimed his Eldorado had 330 stock HP because is the collector's Edition (special exhaust).
    He got very upset on me when I told him is just sound (tone) no power, is still 300HP like the regular ETC.
    But I am sure there are many suckers believing an exhaust can add 10HP or more.

  6. #51
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    has anyone heard this exhaust note? I always wonder what it sounds like. I've only seen one white collectors eldo but I didn't hear it. I think the guru said that aside from removing the excess interior metal out of the exhaust manifold, that a larger diameter pipe from the cat back, and the y pipe and using flowmaster style mufflers a little gain could be had. The main restriction is the flat pipe that runs from the "front" exhaust manifold to the cat.

    That said the gain is minimal. Maybe 5? That said, the collectors series looks like it has the same pipe and same size mufflers. I wonder what exactly makes the exhaust note different.

  7. #52
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Usually to change the "sound" of a exhaust system, different sizes pipes, baffles or chambers in the muffler affect the "sound" one hears......

  8. #53
    mtflight's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Yes usually. But I've analyzed pictures closely and muffler sizes (20") and even asked dealers for part numbers yet the answer was there were no different part numbers available. So has anyone actually compared it, or was it pure marketing? The 96 and up had quieter exhaust than the 92-95.

    I know the 96+ had a very small muffler pipe ID and huge mufflers.

  9. #54
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    The 2002 VIN 9 engines all used basically the same exhaust setup - machine bent, some hasty welds, couple of pretty good bends. Baffled mufflers.

    Too bad the CORSA was never made for the Eldorado - maybe the routing or floorpan just didn't allow for (relatively) inexpensive small demand manufacture. Here's the FWD dyno results for the 2000 STS exhaust change (no longer published) with the CORSA.............. so it would appear that some judicious pipe sizing and muffler replacement would be worth something in the upper rpm ranges - nothing at any normal speeds, though.

    I kept the stock system out by the woodpile for 7 years after my change to CORSA - it went to the dump last spring - no one wanted it for free.

    mtflight, Your observation that there is some small pipe in those systems is exctly correct - in my old STS system there were pipe bends at the Y and mufflers where the actual diameter was necked down to about 1.5" ! BUT - that's in the phony duals sections. The exhaust pipe itself was about 2" to 2.25" in the shallow bends after the resonator. The beauty of the CORSA is that there are NO baffles - it's all straight pipe.

  10. #55
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Here's an 02, most likely a collectors edition under the knife this guy has:


  11. #56
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Sub, how do the dyno runs work? Is the Car in a fixed gear? Say 4th or overdrive here? I see the chart starts at 65 or so and ends at 128 mph. I assume there's much more power loss at the lower gears due to the normal slip and no torque converter lock. Thus to simply isolate engine power seems logical to record the high gears. I don't know but you probably do.

    I too kept my stock mufflers for a couple of years and then they had the same fate as yours. The 96+eldo has larger muffler cases than the 98+ Seville making it very quiet which I could now appreciate. Yet I have had 3 different types of mufflers in my Cadillacs. I tried super turbos and then flowmaster 50s and then 40s the latter are surprisingly quieter than the 50s that have a noise cancellation chamber. I haven't heard a Corsa exhaust in person. I like the mean low frequency metallic burble of the flowmasters. They begin to come alive at 3000 rpm or so, making it easy to drive quietly. No resonance.

    The super turbos had fiber glass packed inside and did have resonance at some rpm. Not bad or loud.

  12. #57
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Hard to say on this one ....... And this is for a VIN 9 engine. You normally start out at idle, in gear, then literally punch it up to fuel cutoff. As illustrated, just as in almost every modified exhaust system, the engine speeds below about 2,500 to 3,000 rpm don't even figure into the power gain because there is none. Free-flowing exhausts are only good from midrange to redline - which is one reason a drag racer comes off the line with the engine already up in the power band. In the illustration you can see a hiccup right about 80 mph+ - that would be the 2 - 3 shift point. These (VIN 9) cars will go to about 138 in 3rd before the 3 - 4 shift, so there's probably only one shift here. (1 - 2 comes at about 45 or so, so it's not shown.) You can see that the blue curve gets farther away from the red curve as speed (rpm) rises - that's the effect of less gas flow restriction in the exhaust: the engine breathes better. If you have ever driven/ridden in a Northstar with a CORSA you can hear the change in exhaust tone as rpm (gas flow) rises under WOT conditions - at any other throttle opening the system sound is pretty benign..

    Under WOT conditions TCC is never engaged. For a run such as this you put the stick in 1 and leave it there all the way to fuel cutoff. When I do my 130+ runs in the STS the stick stays in 1 for the entire event: I run out of pavement and need the engine braking as well as foot brakes to avoid, ummm, mishaps at a turn.

    Find mhamilton's speed/rpm tables and, using the original tire outside circumference, calculate the theoretical top speed of a VIN 9 (3.71) car.
    Tire circumference - inches per mile - feet per mile - engine rpm - final drive - tire rpm - final speed.

  13. #58
    mtflight's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    Very cool. I wish I had somewhere to open my etc all the way to fuel cutoff. My dhs got there a half dozen times (111 or 112 mph) and I think I made it to 130 on my previos etc so I was close but I was also running out of pavement.
    Tankboy40 and Tankboy40 like this.

  14. #59
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Did the last of the 02 eldo's come with the f55 suspension?

  15. #60
    mtflight's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Aztec Red collector's edition Eldorado

    It had CVRSS. Magnetorheological shocks were never an option. The body style and technology remained te same from 98-02. The only difference was the updated northstar in 2000 with the roller finger followers.

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