EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless! in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Drove about 400k last night, mostly 401. Lots of passing, LOTS of rain. No codes will i floored it up ...
  1. #1
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Drove about 400k last night, mostly 401. Lots of passing, LOTS of rain. No codes will i floored it up the driveway :P P0327, P0146.

    I cant remember what 02 sensors we used from the 97 and which fom the 95. I know they arent the same. I know i used the manifolds off the 95. I know i have the down pipe sensor of the 97, and the 2 cat sensors off the 97. I have a feeling if there are sensors in the manifolds, then they are off the 95. Maybe thats the problem....

    The other night i took out 2 litres of trans fluid and it ran great through all RPMs. Today and yesterday its just bagging like im holding the brakes to the floor when i hit the gas. If i let back on the pedal slowly there is a point in the throttle where it will seem to "grab and go", but more throtle causes it to bag. Reminds me of an old carb engine bogging.

    EVAP codes are gone. I redid the vaccum lines. The other 02 sensor codes are gone, i redid the ground wire to th PCM as it was coroded badly. Today i started it cold and it fired right up. Before, every day pretty much the last couple weeks, it was hrad as hell to start in the mornings but ran ok once it was going. Today, started first shot, so seems fine.

    Its still just gutless..... Too much air? Vaccum? Throttle position? Something along those lines.... or do i have the wrong 02 sensors? I just cant remember where or how i plugged them in when i did the swap.

    This is a 2001 built engine, out of a 95 car, put into a 97 STS for any who missed my swap thread.

    I gotta say, this is the most fun car i've ever worked on Very stimulating!

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    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    I seem to recall our old Guru once say that a bad TPS would act like a carb with a bad accelerator pump.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    i have to keep in mind... every part, every code that has come upbad, so far i have fixed without replacing said part. All of these things worked fine before changing the engine. Why would 3 02 sensors suddenly go bad? Turned out to be a wiring issue. (which i have had lots of...). So i will look deeper into the TPS. Right now i just pulled the air ride pump off to look at another issue. The solenoid is not working. Now i know why. It loaded up with water due to a broken, brittle air line.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    grrrr..........

    UPDATE:

    It was getting worse... more and more gutless. Cant accelerate with more than 10-15% throttle. NO codes..... Once in a while getting a P0327 (high voltage knock sensor?) i was summing that up to bad mount somewhere, engine hits kinda hard some times.

    Tonight i stuck it in neutral and gave it a shot. RPM needle goes up very slowly, wtf its even gutless in neutral.....

    So i decide to go for some second gear rips!

    Did about 20. Back and forth between on/off ramps on the 403. 60-125ish km/h. 3000rpm to redline. Up and down. Each time i did it, the ummm..."power band?" got a bit bigger. Now it bogs a tiny bit say with 5% pedal or less, and 95-100% pedal. But everything in between it pulls a lot better. So. Is it all filthy inside? How bout a cleaning agent to clean up the rest? It is still a bit shifty going from 3000-6000+ rpm. Like there are some spts almost as if its misfiring, but its not a missfire....

    Ugh.... i keep getting so close. Then i let her sleep for a night and the next day there is something wrong. I think my baby got the flu....

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    hmm should maybe move this to N* perf/tech forum.

    Had a decently clean start this morning, about degrees celcius outside. Well it started better than any other day anyway. About 2-3 seconds turning over. But no engine light, and no codes. used to always get 3 O2 sensor codes on cold morning start).

    So what ive done so far: Checked and re-connected vaccum lines for canister/evap solenoid. I ummm..... "fixed" the PCV valve. I have a new one ordered, mine is wrapped in electrical tape... i used about 20 inches of tape and kept it as clean as i could. the boot is cracked on both ends.. so ya. Also, replaced the end of the ground wire for the PCM as it was BUTCHERED. If i could fire my helper again i would... All of those things seemed to clean it up a bit at a time. Enough to stop the engine light from coming on, and enouh to drive 480km without poping a code.

    I noticed it is still very sluggish depending on how far i press the gas pedal. Light touch pulling from the driveway, it seems to bog. So another 1/8 inch of pedal and it goes. Another 1/8-1/4 inch and it bogs again, and so on.

    Bugs me even more because i think it was wednesday or thursday it was running awesome all day after fixing the above, no issues at all except that damn engine light from the knock sensor. Next day it was just crapped out... Maybe today ill make time to pull the front plugs. Ill try and get some pictures of them. Plugs and wires have less than 20,000 on them, AC delco plugs.

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Tonight i stuck it in neutral and gave it a shot. RPM needle goes up very slowly, wtf its even gutless in neutral.....
    This sounds a lot like a plugged CAT.

  8. #7
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    i've been thinking a lot about that, the plugged cat. Its a new cat, less than 20k on it. Probably more likely less than 10k. They said its a high flow flowmaster. It is a very small cat though. But ive been thinking for a few days it almost seems like or feels like there is a potato stuck in my exhaust.

    I just drove it home for lunch. i took it up to about 70k and its just.... horrible. It lurches forward depending where you hold the throttle at. But WOT is sticks around 4000 rpm as if im riding the brakes at the same time.

    If i can't figure this out by thursday, its going to the dealer to have a Tech2 scan. I HATE doing this, ive said it before: "mechanics keep taking my money". If they dont let me take the mechanic for a drive with ME driving to show him what im talking about then im not letting them touch my car.

    $99 an hour labor.....

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    going in 30 mins to have the cat removed and checked. Its an aftermarket, "search" says they are junk.... but i will blame myself for this one going bad at under 20,000. Old engine burned oil AND antifreeze. Twice i idled it in park for extended minutes and it was smoking bad due to EVAP purge. So, if this one IS in fact shot i will have it replaced with the same (flowmaster) and not idle it in park any more. Soon as its done im off to London for a 2 hour trip. Ill catch some video of the radar traps if i can That is.. some video of what issues te new cat may resolve.....

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    cat is still like new. We cut in front of cat and drop the exhaust, fired it up and it still doing the same thing. So not an exhaust problem. Pulled the car back down after welding it up and the front drivers flex line blew. That whole side has brand new lines done at crappy tire. The line was rubbing on something and went. So its in getting fixed by a guy i shoulda seen months ago, he has a Tech2 and is gona try and figure the engine out after he fixes the brake line.


    FUN STUFF!

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!



    100 bucks to fix that brake line PLUS the 200 that went missing outa my car at some point from one garage to the next. Life is grand. And they hooked up that Tech2 and said "theres no codes i donno whats wrong with it" said something about running rich.

    Whatever. Im changing my license plate to "Mechanics keep taking my money" now they charge triple i guess........

    My battery is dead. Will a totaly cooked battery cause the car to run like this? Its not chargin. But it still runs off the alt and i can still pull close to 175 amps off the alt.

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    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    175 amps from a 140 amp alternator (assuming its stock) is pretty good.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    its a Hitachi with upgraded something, rebuilt. 180 amps they rated it for anyway. Cost me almost 600.

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    What parts of the engine are 95 and what parts are 97? The heads and intakes are different between the two years, and don't work with each other. Heads are 93-95, 96-99 2000+ Intakes are 93-95, 96-97, 98-99, 2000+. I think you can use 96-97 intakes on 98-99 engines and vic-versa, but the 93-95 heads have some different EGR paths in the heads that the later cars don't have and you need to use the matching intakes.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    The engine is out of a 95. My car is a 97. The manufacture date on the engine is October 2001. I used the intake off my car (97) and the knock sensor off my car (97). The hole for the knock sensor was already drilled under the intake. I used the exhaust manifolds off hte 95 engine, which required me to use he down pipe off hte 95 engine and modify the end of the down pipe to fit my 97 exhaust. I used all of the O2 sensors off hte 97, none of them from the 95 have he same plugs. They will not plug in. The entire wiring harnses from the 97 was used. I have custom power and groundwires for battery and alternator, a step up from factory. I should have changed the front engine mount, the one on the 95 was bad, and i used it. It bangs kinda hard if you arent careful. I have put over 5000 km's on it since the swap was done, and it ran fine. I dont remember what exactly was hapening when it started losing power, but it was something aroud the time i started looking at the EVAP system codes. They have since been done away with, i dont get them aymore. I still get P0327 knock sensor high voltage once in a while but have driven 600+ km's without a code. We cutthe exhaust and looked at the cat, it is perfect, still brand new. With the exhaust off i started the car and hit the gas a few times. It still feels like i am holding a cloth over the throttle body and starving it for air. It is sluggish revving up to 4-5k rpm. The exhaust was clear as anything can be coming out of the down pipe, no color whatsoever.

    I took a look at th screen in the intake (drivers side) where i think the MAF sensor is? It seems to me it may be dirty or clogged up. Sprayed some degreaser in ther and wiped it up with a lint free cloth. I drove it the 2 km's to work and it seems better bt still not perfect. Last night when i drove it home it was bad, and the battery was dead when i shut it off. I boosted it today and now the battery is charging off the alternator again and it turns over faster than whn i boost it off my truck. Ths is starting to seem related. Dead battery = weak engine, charged = runs better but still not perfect. Reminds me of when the alternator came unplugged and the car was runing off the battery while driving home, as the lights got dimmer, it got harder to rev the car higher and it was getting weaker and weaker through the higher RPM's. It feels EXACTLY the same. As if not enough power to privide spark, fuel preasure, and injector power at high throttle and high RPM. I will put a load test on the battery after work but i dont know if it will tell me much. Something tells me i need to look more in the direction of a SHORT or something in the battery itself. Is this possible it may be screwing with the power the alternator is trying to provide when the car is running? Sounds to me that is feasable. Unfortunatly im shor about 200 bucks this week so i wont be buying a new one for at least a few days. Need to sell off some spare parts......

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Quote Originally Posted by ponyboyt View Post
    Dead battery = weak engine, charged = runs better but still not perfect. Reminds me of when the alternator came unplugged and the car was runing off the battery while driving home, as the lights got dimmer, it got harder to rev the car higher and it was getting weaker and weaker through the higher RPM's. It feels EXACTLY the same. As if not enough power to privide spark, fuel preasure, and injector power at high throttle and high RPM. I will put a load test on the battery after work but i dont know if it will tell me much. Something tells me i need to look more in the direction of a SHORT or something in the battery itself.....
    We have this old guy in town who does battery's as a hobby. He's like 88 years old. He sells reman'd ones at about $5 proffit.

    In his shop, battery is measuring 11.8 volts. In the car. Running. So he put it on the bench for me. 3 Polarised cells, all the cells are dry. Drops from 12v to 9v in under 2 seconds of load. Its a 1000ca Motormaster with top and side post. The QA date on it is June 2008. I thought it was funny on thep hone earlier he had said "i dont have any cadillac battery'". Anyway, He stuck in a reman'd ford battery, had guessed it was arond 700ca. It wasn't at full charge but its the only one he has that will fit, with both top and side post. Its measuring 12.7v on the bench unloaded. As soon as we hook it up in the car it drops to 12.3v. He says something must be on, i explain the car will always have a draw i just dont know how much, but it seems to be normal. Start the car. Now measures 12.4v. 2 seconds, 12.5. 2 seconds 12.6. Alt seems to kick in and bring it to 12.8, then it drops to 12.2. every 2-3 seconds it goes from 12.2 to 12.8. Turn off car, battery eventualy comes up to 12.5v. e tells me my alternator is shot.

    Not Good.

    He also says that yes it is possible there may be a bad wire on the alt to battery connection. So i give him what he askes for the battery, 40 bucks. Tried to give him 50 as we were there for an hour and he declines. This is his hobby. Neato. I start driving and you can see a difference right away, although still sluggish at anything over cruising. You dont want to pass, but you ca pull into traffic fine now and go on the highways.

    Before my engine swap, my dash always read 13.8 volts. (i cant see it now, stupid airbag message). This guy explains to me that with a proper reader, you should ALWAYS be over 14v with the car running. My 13.8 was good becaus it was consistant, but was probably inaccurate. I have been able to catch a glimps of the voltage immediatly after starting the car some times for a second, and its always in the high 11.x range.

    Obviously this is a problem. A problem thats causing many many other hard to diagnose issues. Ill check alt wiring again after work. If its all good, ill pull the alt and take it to Partsource for a free test/exam.

    Woot.

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