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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless! in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Your battery hobbyist is correct: A "12 volt" battery should read 12.6 volts, fully charged, on the bench. 11.9 volts ...
  1. #16
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Your battery hobbyist is correct: A "12 volt" battery should read 12.6 volts, fully charged, on the bench. 11.9 volts is essentially dead. Your battery-in-the-car voltage should read about 12.4 at key ON, then after START it should ramp up to 14.3 - 14.8 and stay there for a while, then ramp slowly down to a steady 14.4.

    Take a 12V test light and put it in series with the negative battery cable - does the bulb light ? If so, you have more than the acceptable 25mA parasitic load. You now need to pull fuses, one by one, to see which circuit is causing the draw. A bit tricky, because RAP (Retained Accessory Power) and interior lights will cause false readings, so you need to let RAP drop out (10 minutes) and not turn on or change anything during the fuse-pulling exercise.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    ok will do that at lunch. In the meantime i forgot to mention: i have a spare alternator, from the 95 car. I think the plug is the same, except that one has th 3 big extra plugs for heated windshied. Can i use it anyway without the heated windshield plug hooked up? I dont have a heated windshield.

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    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    looks like i can remove the heater wires and just cap the ends. I think the heater switch on those is independent of the rest of the system, along with those wires. Should be an efficient enough alternator if it works. Its higher than a stock non-heated one. I've read some archives, looks like no one has gone THIS way with a swap, but some have put in a non-heated w/s alt in place of heated w/s alt. Will let you know if it works only gona put itin while mine is getting warenty'd.

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    loose nut on the alternator positive term. Wires are loose, move freely. Nut and stud corroded badly, took one look and said "thats gona break". Put a wrench on to see if it turn at all and yep, broke.


    Does it ever STOP getting fun?

  5. #20
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    i give ya 2 guesses who cross threaded that nut on the stud, and left it like that with a 1/8 inch gap for the wires to rattle around.

  6. #21
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    That can't be good.

  7. #22
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    other alt is in and working fine. Headlights are 3X brighter (guesstimate) and it is a lot more umm... confident at lower RPM. It needs to charge a bit so we will see but.. it is still feeling very weak above 4500 RPM with a lot of pedal. Light pedal is fine and it will keep puling through 2nd gear (manualy) to 6k rpm if i dont hold it to the floor. If i hit the pedal to the floor its like im hitting the brakes but it stays revving? I should take a video its so hard to describe.

  8. #23
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Quote Originally Posted by ponyboyt View Post
    other alt is in and working fine. Headlights are 3X brighter (guesstimate) and it is a lot more umm... confident at lower RPM. It needs to charge a bit so we will see but.. it is still feeling very weak above 4500 RPM with a lot of pedal. Light pedal is fine and it will keep puling through 2nd gear (manualy) to 6k rpm if i dont hold it to the floor. If i hit the pedal to the floor its like im hitting the brakes but it stays revving? I should take a video its so hard to describe.
    That sounds like a slipping trans.

  9. #24
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    there was a lot of foam at the top of the trans filler a few days ago, maybe a week. Its very intermittent now. Was running quite nice (drove the snot out of it all night) til i took a break and shut it down for an hour. Started up and ran a bit iffy til it warmed up. I was originaly thinking trans, thats when i realised it was overfilled by 2 liters, and came accross some other problems. I thought slipping trans would pop a code? Still the only thing i get is P0327 and im wondering if THAT is causing some timing adjustment enough to make it drop a lot of power off and on?

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    I'm not sure what P0327 is if you don't post the definition, but I don't think there is a DTC for trans slippage.

  11. #26
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    <<< I was originaly thinking trans, thats when i realised it was overfilled by 2 liters >>>


    Half a gallon overfilled is quite a bit IMO. I know that some auto transmissions will show slipping, hard shifting and overheating issues when overfilled to the point of excessive foaming.

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    P0327 knock sensor low voltage. Still get that code and dammit again getting P1441 evap system flow during none purge event. When i have some light i am going to see if the solenoid works. Tomorow going to the scrap yard to see if i can find an un-tamper'd N* to borrow some stuff off.

    Oh, its running good. Not slipping or jolting any more. Just gets a bit weak when P0327 pops, usualy at high RPM. That code immediatly goes to history btw.

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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    I wonder if when that P0327 DTC sets, it triggers the PCM to retard the timing? Another thought is the foaming trans fluid. Foam is basically air and the trans won't run on air. THAT may be your problem.

  14. #29
    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Circuit Description
    During engine operation, the knock sensor will detect background noise on its circuit. The PCM monitors this noise and compares the amount of noise it monitors to the amount it expects too see. If the knock sensor system is operating correctly the background noise will generally increase as engine speed and load increase. This background noise is used to detect knock sensor circuit faults. This DTC will set if the knock sensor background noise is below an expected learned value at a given RPM and TP sensor range for a given period of time.

    Conditions for Running the DTC
    Ignition voltage at least 10 volts.
    Coolant Temperature at least 40°C (104°F).
    Throttle position at least 4.8 degrees.
    Engine speed at least 3000 RPM..
    Battery voltage at least 11 volts.
    Conditions for Setting the DTC
    The knock sensor background noise voltage is less than 0.5 volts above the learned minimum for 1 second.

    Action Taken When the DTC Sets

    The PCM will illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) when the diagnostic runs and fails.
    The PCM will record operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. This information will be stored in the Freeze Frame and Failure Records.
    Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

    The PCM will turn the MIL OFF after three consecutive drive trips that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
    A Last Test Failed (current) DTC will clear when the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
    A History DTC will clear after forty consecutive warm-up cycles with no failures of any emission related diagnostic test.
    Use a scan tool to clear DTCs.
    Interrupting PCM battery voltage may or may not clear DTCs. This practice is not recommended. Refer to Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes in PCM Description and Operation.
    Diagnostic Aids
    Check for an intermittent open or short on CKT 496.

    Test Description
    Number(s) below refer to the step number(s) on the Diagnostic Table.

    Checking knock sensor and knock sensor signal circuit under intake manifold.

    Checking if circuit or sensor is at fault.

    Checking knock sensor signal circuit to PCM.

    Checking if PCM is faulty or fault is not present.

    Step
    Action
    Value(s)
    Yes
    No

    1
    Did you perform the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check?
    --
    Go to Step 2
    Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check

    2
    Disconnect the knock sensor / starter solenoid harness connector, located on right side of engine compartment at rear corner of intake.
    Using DMM J 39200 set to AC volts 400 mV setting, measure frequency in Hertz at knock sensor connector terminal B (sensor side).
    Tap on block with non-metallic object.
    Does frequency fluctuate while tapping on block?
    --
    Go to Step 5
    Go to Step 3

    3
    Remove intake manifold.
    Disconnect knock sensor connector at sensor.
    Measure the frequency in Hertz directly at the knock sensor.
    Tap on block with non metallic object.
    Does frequency fluctuate while tapping on block?
    --
    Go to Step 4
    Go to Step 9

    4
    Repair open or short to ground in knock sensor signal circuit between knock sensor and knock sensor / starter solenoid connector.

    Is the repair complete?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    --

    5
    Reconnect knock sensor / starter solenoid connector.
    Using Store Info. save the data stored when the DTC set.
    Record the fluid life indexes, turn the key to LOCK and wait 30 seconds.
    Disconnect PCM connector C2.
    Measure the frequency in Hertz at PCM connector C2 terminal 62.
    Tap on block with non-metallic object.
    Does frequency fluctuate while tapping on block?
    --
    Go to Step 7
    Go to Step 6

    6
    Repair open or short to ground in knock sensor signal circuit between PCM connector C2 and knock sensor / starter solenoid connector terminal B.

    Is the repair complete?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    --

    7
    Reconnect PCM connector C2.
    Using Failure Rec. check the conditions under which the DTC set.
    Operate the vehicle under conditions noted.
    Ensure that all test conditions are met and the DTC runs.
    Did the DTC reset?
    --
    Go to Step 8
    Fault not present. Refer to Diagnostic Aids

    8
    Check terminal contact at PCM connector C2 terminal 62.
    Repair terminal contact if needed.
    Was terminal contact repaired?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    Go to Step 11

    9
    Check terminal contact at the knock sensor.
    Repair terminal contact if needed.
    Was terminal contact repaired?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    Go to Step 10

    10
    Replace the knock sensor. Refer to Knock Sensor (KS) Replacement .

    Is the replacement complete?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    --

    11
    Replace the PCM. Refer to Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Replacement .

    Is the replacement complete?
    --
    Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
    --

  15. #30
    ponyboyt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: EVAP fixed. No codes, still gutless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I wonder if when that P0327 DTC sets, it triggers the PCM to retard the timing? Another thought is the foaming trans fluid. Foam is basically air and the trans won't run on air. THAT may be your problem.
    And there would be air in the trans, causing foam, because _______________

    Time to Study. I have 3 multimeters that dont work... great.

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