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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-09, 01:45 AM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

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I doubt the fuse is bad. From what I read, it needs more fuel. 1 gallon is not enough. Once at least 3 gallons is in it, turn the key to the run position and then back to off a few times to turn on the pump to load fuel in the lines, then on the 4th turn of the key continue thru to the start position. It should start, run rough then smooth out UNLESS you burnt out the pump because of low fuel??? If it starts, buy a lottery ticket because you're in a lucky streak!!!
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Old 08-07-09, 11:34 AM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

You can put an ear to the open fuel pipe while someone turns the key on and listen for the pump. It should run for 2-3 seconds. That will only tell you that it is running, not how much pressure it has. If carnuts idea does not work, Autozone for one, will loan you the gauge.
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Old 08-07-09, 08:55 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Or take the beauty cover out and locate the Schrader valve at the end of the fuel line (under the beauty cover, driver side-front corner, looks like a tire valve just larger). Grab a rag, unscrew the cap turn the key ON and masking the area with the rag press on the valve nipple (expect to spray gas under high pressure). If no spray or a pathetic little spray then: fuel pump. Should also hold pressure after the key is OFF for weeks until you depressurize the line from the valve.
Is such an easy job to change the fuel pump on the '98 and newer, 20-40 minutes job (depending on the skills) and an OEM pump is ~$350.
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Old 08-07-09, 09:16 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

That method will tell you that there is pressure, but not how much. You could have pressure, but not enough to run the engine.
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Old 08-08-09, 08:02 AM
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Unhappy Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Hello everyone. Thanks for your comments so far.

I took out the back seat and looked at the fuse (20AM #1 minifuse for fuel pump). It was tripped. I replaced that fuse and NOTHING. I don't know much about these things, but there's another fuel pump part in the fuse box (fuse #39) which is the Fuel Pump Relay. I could NOT remove it. I didn't want to break it. It felt like it would if I pulled really hard. So, I have no idea if that's somehow blown as well. I would assume that with the blown fuse #1, everything should be safe. But I put a brand new fuse pump fuse in. NOTHING.

I guess I'll travel back up to my job this morning and add more gas. I hope this fixes it, but I'm not very encouraged.

And go figure, I had just returned the day before from a 4-hour trip from Western Illinois back to Indianapolis. I thought the 8-hour stretch over the 3 days would be good for the beast.

I just don't know...

Also NCaddy, I'm not sure what the "beauty cover" is.

Thanks again to everyone.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-09, 08:11 AM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

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Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post
Is such an easy job to change the fuel pump on the '98 and newer, 20-40 minutes job (depending on the skills) and an OEM pump is ~$350.
Is an OEM pump the way to go? Or would a higher performing pump be better. People say you have to drop the fuel tank to change the fuel pump. And, they say since my fuel-sending unit is broken, replace that then as well. I don't know if this is true or not...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-09, 10:44 AM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

First lesson when you buy a Cadillac, always use OEM (AC Delco or Delphi) parts. Any others (aftermarket) brands are just cheap replacements. There is no such thing as a high performance fuel pump, the OEM pump was designed to have enough flow to maintain the engine running at 7000 RPM all day long (with the OEM injectors).
A long trip is always a good thing for the car (always), clean the pipes, valves, etc. In fact the worst thing for a char is short and frequent stops (like a pizza delivery car).
The beauty cover is the big plastic cover (silver in color) that sits on top of the engine (the one held with 4 plastic nuts with the text "Northstar 32 Valves V8" on the front edge (covers the top of the engine - intake manifold & fuel line).
The fuel sending unit (FSU) is always included with a new pump, you can buy separately a FSU but not just a fuel pump (I am talking OEM).
'98 and newer Sevilles do have a access panel on top of the fuel pump so you can access the fuel pump from the inside of the trunk, no need to drop the tank (that statement is available on '97 and older Sevilles and all Eldorados up to '02. This panel transforms the Fuel Pump job from a $900 - 4h job to a $350-$400 30 minutes job. Visit kckranz's FSU Job album, he posted some EXCELLENT pictures with the fuel pump.
So check your pressure as I mentioned, Ranger is right you can only tell if you have or not pressure (not how much) but if you have seen a good car, knowing what kind of spray to expect you should be able to tell if the pressure is good or not. But first of all will tell you if you have pressure or not on the fuel line. Unfortunately I have no electrical diagram for your year so I can tell you witch fuse is what but here is what you can do with NO tools at all.
1. Make sure ALL fuses are OK. If a fuse is stuck try to wiggle along the long axis of the fuse. You should have a fuse extractor (looking like a short chubby tweezers) - at least my car came with one. Also not sure if ’99 has-it but my ’97 does have a sticker with the title of each fuse/relay (like FUEL PUMP, DRL, FOG, IGN, etc.).
2. Turn the key ON and go in the trunk, remove the liner (see this picture) and put your ear against the panel, or better yet just remove the panel and listen if you hear the pump working). With the panel removed and the sky pass opened you should hear the pump from the driver’s seat (better ask a helper to turn the key while you are in the trunk near the pump listening).
3. If no hum then the pump is either burned or the fuse/relay is gone. If the fuse(s) are good then try swapping the fuel pump relay with another one (any relay with the same number of pins is good).
4. If you hear the hum then you go to the beauty cover and do the valve spray test. The gas should spray like crazy when pressing the valve nipple (shield the area and yourself with a rag). Remember though, the key should be ON when testing this. If it has enough pressure to spray hard enough to almost scare/impress you then the car should start, maybe will have the tendency to stumble while revving the engine (say every time you try to pass over 2000 RPM the engine will stumble (as if the gas limiter will kick in) or even the engine will die (any of these symptoms denote a low fuel line pressure). Also test for pressure after turning the key OFF. You should have pressure on the line for few seconds (until you drain-it from the valve). If no pressure after, the pump hold valve is gone so although the pump electrically is fine it pumps gas back into the tank.
Another lesson after this, never EVER run the car with low fuel in the tank. The fuel is the coolant agent for the pump, low fuel means pump runs hot. I’ve been for a while on this forum and almost every fuel pump thread starts with “I thought I was low on fuel”. I am always keeping my fuel tank above the half mark (but that’s just me I am to extreme) but at least keep the fuel always over 1/3, is not like you save any money, in the end you use the same amount of gas. I understand your fuel gauge was defective, but is such an inexpensive repair! Also in my experience once the fuel level sending unit is gone the fuel pump follows in about a year or so.
One more time, make sure electrical the pump is OK has no excuse not to run, then do the pressure test (if you hear the humm). Remember not to run low on gas next time and there is no such thing as performance aftermarket parts for Cadillac, OEM is the ONLY way to go, that discussion is for Hondas and other similar cars.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-09, 01:47 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Thanks so much for the information. Just getting back to the computer. Here's what happened:

1. I went to the gas station, filled a 5 gallon tank
2. Went to my job, poured the gas in the tak.
3. Turned the key on and off for about 4 or 5 times.
4. Tried to start it. It ran for about 10 seconds. Best time yet! Then it shut off!
5. From then on..... NOTHIN!
6. I tried to get the fuel pump relay out, but couldn't get it out. I was gonna swap it out with another relay next to it. Thought I might break something.

Funny thing though. yesterday I tried and tried, and NOTHING. today I did the ignition steps and it ran for 10-15 seconds then shut down. Makes me think that the fuel's not getting to the front of the car. I didn't get a change to do the rag test, as I was REALLY limited on time and the parking lot was really heavily ridden with traffic.

Last edited by maiahsdad; 08-08-09 at 02:02 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-09, 05:10 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

If it started for few seconds then don't bother with the relays and fuses, you got power to the pump (taking fuses and relays out should be super easy, just wiggle little when pulling, really there is not much to say about this).
Looks like you have low pressure, test the Shrader valve, is a 5 minutes job.
Alternatively take the fuel pump panel out and disconnect the OUT line (should be indicated with an arrow showing the flow). Have a helper to turn the key ON (shortly) but be prepare with a rag around. The pump should spray like crazy, if is just a steady flow then is not having enough pressure, new pump! Go with an AC Delco (or Delphi) pump, is already a high performance pump.
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Old 08-08-09, 05:30 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

I agree. Sounds like low fuel pressure. Borrow or rent a fuel pressure gauge. Put it on the service port (schrader valve) and see what kind of pressure you have. That will tell the story. Anything else is just a guess.
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Old 08-17-09, 03:34 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Well folks, I finally broke down and had my car towed from my job to an automotive facility ($150 towing charge). Within 5 minutes they told me that I needed a fuel pump and fuel filter. Cost.... $750 out the door. Seems a bit much if you don't have to drop the tank. Don't have the additional funds right now, so I guess it'll just sit there for a couple months.
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Old 08-17-09, 09:13 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Didn’t I just told you that you don’t need to drop the tank!
Your ’99 has a access panel in the trunk. Changing the fuel pump in your car is a piece of cake. 30 minutes job at worst first time you do-it. $750 is a rip off! The fuel pump cost $400 (first place you ask, $330 after shopping around not to much). Then let’s say 1 h labor (but should NOT take that long) and you are still under $500. Do-it yourself if you ever changed one wheel on your car (or at least a light bulb) then you are well qualified for the job.
1. Remove the liner in the trunk floor.
2. Locate the access panel in the vicinity of the sky pass (slightly to the right side)
3. Take the 5-6 nuts/clips holding the panel
4. Disconnect the lines from the pump (make sure you note witch one was where because 2 can be swapped). Observe the plastic clips locking the fuel lines to the pump (you need NO tools to disconnect, just press the clips with your fingers to release the line). Make sure you don’t bend any line (handle relatively with care). Expect some gas to spill, the lines suppose to be under pressure.
5. Remove the electrical connector (observe there is a clip holding it and a lock insert)
6. Using large pliers or a oversized flat head screwdriver spin that ring holding the pump about 10 degrees or so to release.
7. Now the pump is free you can just lift it out of the tank (be careful with the fuel sending unit the float arm is sticking)
8. Insert the new pump (also care to be taken not to bend the float arm nor force-it pass the end of the resistor - that semi circle thing it pivots around) because you can bend the contact tabs. This is the hardest part of the job careful not to damage the fuel-sending unit.
9. Put the ring back, turn back to lock and then connect the fuel lines and the electrical connector. Start the car to test (first put the ignition ON and wait 5 seconds to build the pressure on the line then crank).
10. Put the panel and the trunk liner back.
11. Voila you saved over $250.

It takes me more time to describe how to do-it than actually to do-it.
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Old 08-17-09, 11:08 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post
Didn’t I just told you that you don’t need to drop the tank!
Your ’99 has a access panel in the trunk. Changing the fuel pump in your car is a piece of cake. 30 minutes job at worst first time you do-it. $750 is a rip off! The fuel pump cost $400 (first place you ask, $330 after shopping around not to much). Then let’s say 1 h labor (but should NOT take that long) and you are still under $500. Do-it yourself if you ever changed one wheel on your car (or at least a light bulb) then you are well qualified for the job.
But three shops indicate the same time frame, and indicate that the access panel is just the beginning. They indicate that you MUST do other things as well. If you were here in Indianapolis (I'm new in this town), maybe you could help me. But I'm completely frustrated at this point.
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Old 08-17-09, 11:57 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by maiahsdad View Post
But three shops indicate the same time frame, and indicate that the access panel is just the beginning. They indicate that you MUST do other things as well. If you were here in Indianapolis (I'm new in this town), maybe you could help me. But I'm completely frustrated at this point.
If I would be from Indianapolis I would came after the first post, such an easy job!
Again visit this link for details on location and how to.
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Old 08-22-09, 04:17 PM
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Re: Car won't start fuel problem

I can not find access panel in trunk of 1999 Eldorado. I saw the pic posted by kckrantz and looked again. The pic is a STS and appears to be on right side just behind rear seat. Am I blind....
The car has been running fine after I put in 5 gallons of gas but knowing the fuel gage is not working properly I thought I should start planning to replace fuel pump in near future.
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