How to refill A/C Refrigerant on '93 Seville

ZeroOctane · #1 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 06:25 PM

Within the last few weeks there's been a message on the dash that says something like "Low A/C Refrigerant" and "Service A/C Soon". I'm assuming the refrigerant is low. Is it feasible for I to refill it myself, and if so how and what should I purchase?

Thanks!

**Ranger** · #2 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 06:33 PM

Your car uses R12 unless it has been converted. You can't buy R12 over the counter anymore. You'll need to have it serviced. If it has been converted, then you buy a can of R134a. Clear the codes to enable the compressor before adding the refrigerant and burp the air out of the hose before adding it.

ZeroOctane · #3 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 06:48 PM

I doubt it has been converted, but is there any way to verify Ranger? Whats the cost I'm looking at if I bring it in for work, ballpark of course : )

Thanks Ranger, always on top of things

submariner409 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 06:56 PM

I believe that if you look at the high and low side charging connections, if the system has been converted, the Schrader fittings are a different size for R134a, and may even be a screw-on adapter arrangement on the old R12 fittings. Also, if the system has been converted, there's usually a sticker near the low side connection to that effect.

R12 and R134a are in no way compatible.

**Ranger** · #5 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 07:01 PM

Sub is right. R12 has screw on fittings like a tire valve. R134a has quick disconnect fittings like an air compressor and there SHOULD be a sticker if it was been converted. In either case, the high and low side fittings will be different sizes to prevent you from hooking up to the high side. Not sure of the cost, but R12 has gotten expensive. Might be around $100.

ZeroOctane · #6 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 07:10 PM

Hmm. I'm not familar with the components you guys are referring to. If its not too much trouble, could you explain where they are located in lameness terms (under the hood, I pressume) and what they look like so I could check on this?

EDIT: nvm, I think I found wht I'm looking for. This silver canister like thing on the left side next to the engine coolant tank, has two silver tubes coming out of it. Says this on top...

"Charge R12 1.08kg (2.38 lbs.) ADL-118-93 1131932 SAE J 639"

**Ranger** · #7 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 07:31 PM

That is the accumulator. On or near it should be the low pressure fitting (where you attach the hose to recharge it). If the fitting looks like a tire valve (shreader valve), it's R12.

submariner409 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 07:40 PM

That's the accumulator and/or filter/drier and if it had been changed would have an R134a sticker on top. Trace the tubing and you will come to a fitting with a black (?) plastic cap which, for R12, screws onto a thing which looks exactly like a larger version of a tire valve. There are 2 of these, a large and a small version, which as Ranger stated, are the high and low side charging connections. If your system had been converted there would be an adapter screwed on top of that/those fittings.

I would hazard a guess that a conversion, at a local shop or a/c specialty shop, would be around $250. More than that at a Cadillac dealer.

R12 is now around $110/lb. on the black market as it is now illegal to sell except by an EPA-approved licensed a/c shop.

ZeroOctane · #9 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 10:22 PM

Shoot, not a good situation. Any chance I can find R12 at a VIP/Advance Auto/Pep Boys etc?

So should I just wait until the Spring time and dish out the cash to get this taken care of? It'd be a damn shame if there's a leak and I spend all this money to just have it leak out.

**Ranger** · #10 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 10:30 PM

You cannot buy it over the counter anywhere. It is illegal to sell it anymore. The only way you can buy it is to take an online test and get certified. I think it costs about $25. Most shops will leak test it before charging it. In fact, I believe that technically is the law.

submariner409 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 10:47 PM

...........and you may want to do the conversion now, while dealers are offering winterization discounts for tires, coolant, a/c, etc. The a/c system also dehumidifies inside air in winter to stop the fogging nasties on a cold, damp Massachusetts morning..........

The conversion to R134a includes a system drying and purge plus leak checks. If this is the first time you have had a refrigerant warning in ?? years, the system is probably pretty tight: Freon is NOT forever.

ZeroOctane · #12 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 11:26 PM

Thanks Ranger, that is indeed some comfort.

Sub, what is the benefit of getting it converted? Having it done for dehumidifing makes sense, I will certainly get it done ASAP, problem is I am away at college (although not far from my home) and it would be difficult at the least to bring it into my local shop during the week while I am at school.

Would there be any downside to just leaving it at R12 and having them refill that? Are they still able to refill R12, or would it be necessary for the mechanics to convert it over to R134a?

I do not know the last time the refrigerant was refilled. I'm going to guess never because my grandfather never used the air and he rarely had it serviced. I also do not know the last time the message came up on the dash, my grandfather always ignored them. I know though that since I have had the car (December '06), this is the first I have seen this message.

Thanks fellas!

**Ranger** · #13 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 11:33 PM

The ONLY downside to not converting is the cost of R12 and it is still available, just not to you and me. If it was never recharged, the system is pretty damn tight as it is not uncommon to need a top off every 5 years or so. I'd take it in and have them top it off. If they find a leak, then you can make a decision.

ZeroOctane · #14 (**permalink**) 10-12-08, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

The ONLY downside to not converting is the cost of R12 and it is still available, just not to you and me. If it was never recharged, the system is pretty damn tight as it is not uncommon to need a top off every 5 years or so. I'd take it in and have them top it off. If they find a leak, then you can make a decision.

Good logic Ranger. I'm friendly with the son of the owner so I ought to be able to at least drop it off Tuesday and take our Blazer back to school with me. They run a pretty tight ship at the place I've been taking our cars recently so I feel confident they'll do a good job.

Thanks again guys, I'll post back and let you know the details of what I ended up doing.

**Jesda** · #15 (**permalink**) 10-13-08, 01:46 AM

Add a can of Freeze 12. $10, used it in everything.