Question for the guys who have added a sub to the Bose System

dirtyguido · #1 (**permalink**) 02-13-08, 11:58 PM

Hey Guys,

Just got done adding a sub to my 00 SLS with bose..

The sub definitely plays and is noticeable but I have a few questions because I'm not getting the sound I expected.

First - My setup:

PIE LOC-2 Line output converter tapped from the 12" on the rear deck. There was only one set of wires, so I connected the left and right channels of the LOC to each other.

AMP: Soundstream Picasso 4.880 - Using 2 of the 4 channels bridged 440x1 mono. Old School Soundstream power here...

The sub: JLAudio12w3v2 12" Dual Voice Coil Sub in a 1.2 ft^3 sealed box.

I've had this setup (without the line out converter) in 2 other cars and it sounded absolutely phenomenal. Crisp, tight and loud.

In the Seville, it sounds like a bandpass box... Boomy and rough, nothing like it did with my other headunits, which were both aftermarket.

Now I left the crossover on the amp flat, assuming that bose 12" was already crossed over. Maybe I'm wrong here. So I'm asking you guys that have it setup before me, did you use the crossover in your amp, or did you leave it flat?? Did it have any noticeable effect??

I'm trying to figure out if the crossover will help - it's dark and cold out, or I would go mess with it now. It also seems like the bass level isn't linear with the volume of the music. The sub seems a bit exaggerated at lower volumes, right at about the middle, and lacking behind at higher ones.

Any ideas or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Take care,

George

CadillacSTS2003 · #2 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:03 AM

your running it off an LOC
whatd you expect lol
try adjusting the filter on the LOC
if it still bugs you, youll have to get a pre amp signal

dirtyguido · #3 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:15 AM

That's funny as hell....

I specifically asked about finding a pre-amp signal... and where the volume is controlled right....

Read what you said here: - the part about running off a LOC and it sounds fine... So I took your advice lol...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...p-control.html (Does the Bose HU or the Bose amp control volume in an 00 SLS??)

Now you are like what did you expect??

Maybe we have different definitions of the word fine lol??

Take care,

George

CadillacSTS2003 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:19 AM

lol
dude i assumed you knew to expect some loss of signal
your running an amped signal to another amp
obviously its gonna hit harder, but thats why you adjust the filter on the LOC
for me, mine sounds fine, just as good as it was on my Avic-N1 and Alpine CDA-9707

we tried one thing you dont like it so well move from there next is adjust the filter
if you still dont like it ill post the pin outs and youll have to get it form the plug at the hu

dirtyguido · #5 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:33 AM

I wasn't poking fingers, I'm just trying to learn from the experience of others, no need to reinvent the wheel u know?

I would appreciate the pinouts....

The debate we had on the previous thread is DOES the GM/BOSE head have line level outputs??? Or are they fixed, and not variable with volume.

If they are fixed, then it's no good as the volume of the sub will not adjust with the volume of the headunit... It's going to be full blast the entire time - or at least wherever you set the signal at the amp....

On your setup do you have the crossover turned on to low pass at the amp... lack of volume isn't the problem - muddy bass that sounds like crap is...

I wonder if I just need to cross it over at a lower frequency than the bose sub does, right now it's running flat.

Take care,

George

CadillacSTS2003 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:45 AM

the output from the hu is left and right only, they are full sound sources comming from the unit
the amp adjusts and filters the signals to front rear treb mid bass etc...

dirtyguido · #7 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:52 AM

Left and right is fine... I understand the amp does all the DSP stuff, and that the H/U puts out a full range signal, but is it Fixed line level, OR is it variable line level dependent on volume.

That's the only thing that matters. Especially with just adding a sub. I don't care about using the fader and what not to control the sub...

Take care,

George

CadillacSTS2003 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 12:56 AM

i cant remember off hand
i think i remember another member who did it the way your asking and it didnt increase in volume
which makes sense as if you replace the HU with an aftermarket with a GMOS-06 you can keep the vol wheel button and it turns up the amp vol while not adjusting the hu volume

dirtyguido · #9 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 01:03 AM

Can you post the wiring diagram / pinouts for the bose stereo for the 00 SLS??

I'm just curious enough to take an oscilloscope to it and see exactly what it is sending.... maybe i'm just too anal when it comes to this stuff. I mean the bose sounds good, but not "great".

I really don't want to swap the hu because I hate dash kits, especially the fact that this one only takes a single din kit with all that plastic in it... I really want to do a nav swap eventually but that will have to wait at least a little while. Plus I have heard very mixed reviews about the actual navigation system portion of that h/u.

Take care and thanks again,

George

CadillacSTS2003 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 01:10 AM

i love my nav
works 100% and is fully hacked
ill post them in the morning but for now if you look on my how to install nav in non nav i have the wiring pin outs posted there

derone · #11 (**permalink**) 02-14-08, 02:12 PM

If you can't find the pre-amp outputs, it may be your LOC. David Navone dot com has some of best on the market. 10k ohm front loading means little draw from the amp and w/adjustable outputs to 9v they sure blow away some of the cheap LOCs which only contain a 6ohm front load coupled to a capacitor for the signal conversion. I use one for the JL stealthbox in my other vehicle.
Doug

dirtyguido · #12 (**permalink**) 02-15-08, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derone

If you can't find the pre-amp outputs, it may be your LOC. David Navone dot com has some of best on the market. 10k ohm front loading means little draw from the amp and w/adjustable outputs to 9v they sure blow away some of the cheap LOCs which only contain a 6ohm front load coupled to a capacitor for the signal conversion. I use one for the JL stealthbox in my other vehicle.
Doug

Wow now there is a name that's a blast from the past.... He used to be a big deal on the car audio circuit, used to compete with an 86 Buick Grand National if I remember correctly. He had a company called autosound2000 or something - this is when having 2000 in your company's name sounded futuristic.

I remember he was one of the pioneers of using compression horns in a car, coupled with big woofers used as midbass drivers - got real big into the image dynamics stuff.

I didn't even realize he was still around. I have to check his stuff out.

Here is my current line output converter:

http://www.pie.net/pie_store/shopexd.asp?id=171&bc=no

A decent, but not true high end piece... Everything In the caddy is stuff I had laying around. I have 4 more soundstream piscasso amps, 3 xtant amps, a couple other subs, and a bunch of other goodies here...

Setting the low pass crossover, and the gain a bit has helped a LOT with the sound i'm 80% happy with it, but still have a few gripes, mostly the intonations added by the bose eq, as well as the inconsistent level fed to the sub by the bose amp. It seems again, like the sub is a bit exaggerated at low volumes, ok in the middle ranges, and lacking behind at the higher volume levels. It's obvious that the Bose amp does this to protect the factory sub, since it's just not capable of producing the type of bass a good sub is. Problem is now the car has an additional sub which CAN make that kind of bass at those volume levels, but the bose amp backs down the sub signal... grrrrrrr

A volume controlled preamp out would be the ideal solution both from the perspective of getting the cleanest input signal to the aftermarket amp, as well as not dealing with the bose amp's eq's. Bose is notorious for using equalization as a substitute for good speakers. They have some wonderful audio engineers but poor in my opinion implementations.

Now one more issue. I used the ign2 fuse - # 12 in the rear fuse box as my remote turn on, so the amp would only be on with the key. This works great except for one annoyance. My aftermarket amp oscillates the sub when there is no audio signal i.e. the radio is off, OR it's switching sources between the CD player and CD changer. It seems like the bose amp shuts off between sources.... Is there a switched power source in the rear fuse box, that stays on only when the radio is on....

Take care,

George

danssts · #13 (**permalink**) 04-09-08, 12:18 AM

I think you guys are getting to complicated here. I am currently wiring up an amp to 2 JBL 12" subs. I plan on running the input wires (not the rca's, I am using the 4 input wires on the amp) from the amped signal, therefore I will tap the 2 pos and 2 neg input wires into the pos and neg wires btwn the amp and the sub. I guess you guys with amp that require the input via rca connections can tap into the same 2 amped wires. So technically your amp is recieving an amped signal. I had the same setup in my 96 sts, without the amped signal it sounded like shit. With the amped signal, sounded just as good as any car with an aftermarket hu

blackcaddy18 · #14 (**permalink**) 06-28-09, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadillacSTS2003

lol
dude i assumed you knew to expect some loss of signal
your running an amped signal to another amp
obviously its gonna hit harder, but thats why you adjust the filter on the LOC
for me, mine sounds fine, just as good as it was on my Avic-N1 and Alpine CDA-9707

we tried one thing you dont like it so well move from there next is adjust the filter
if you still dont like it ill post the pin outs and youll have to get it form the plug at the hu

hey i have a 03 cts and im not sure if anybody knows but i cant seem to find what wires are the pre-amp wires on the stock amp because ive tryed tapping into some of the wires on it with a line converter but everything i do sounds like doodoo. please help. i have 4 subs and two amps waiting to be put in!