The Verdict... fix the head gaskets or dump the car?

[QueensLacMan]

Ok. I have a choice to make and I'd like some feedback/guidance regarding my options.

1. I have not done a block test. I asked a few times what this would do but nobody answered me. Should I get this done? What will it do... tell me if I have a gasket problem or a crack in the block?

2. If it's just the gaskets, how much (ballpark range) would it cost to have them fixed. I know the gaskets are dirt cheap, and that the high cost for the procedure is due to 20+ hours of labor it requires. My mechanic charges $65 an hour - if this takes 30 hours, I'm looking at around $2000 total to have this issue fixed. Any extra costs I'm missing?

3. What's the probability I'll have an overheating problem after the gaskets are fixed? I mean, what if they fix/replace the gaskets for $2000+ and I'm still having problems? Can I get a warranty of some kind on this work? I'm fearful that this problem might have caused damage elsewhere.

4. If I do a block test and it determines the problem is caused by a cracked block instead of the head gaskets, what are my options? I'm assuming in that case, I'd have to discard the engine and have my car stolen and sunk in some marshland. Or I can fix it and just live off white rice for a few months.

I contacted the previous owner and he knew nothing about this issue. He truly felt awful about the situation. He even wrote me a check for $1,000. That money factored in, I got the car for $3350. 47,000+ miles... everything else immaculate.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

If I can fix the situation with $2,000, I'll do the gaskets.

Also... would any of you buy a car in this condition for $3000 given that everything else with the car is in tip-top shape? Or would I be lucky to get $2000 for it?

Thanks again.

Here are a few pics:

[rockybalboa11]

nice car

personally, i would get a cylinder pressure test done if you're 100% worried about headgaskets. my block test came back negative but i'm still going to get the pressure test done tomorrow.

block test coming back negative doesn't give you a sure answer on whether or not it is leaking coolant

p.s. car looks awesome, i've got a '94 in the same color. just with the pinstripes. :-P

[afterburn]

lol gotta hate those pin stripes, but heck, i took them off, they ugly. :P

Anyways, i would def. do a pressure test, those are WAY more accurate and you can get one done for about $30 at a mechanic shop, beats breaking your head to get your answer.

Also, if you still haven't, try using the Block Sealers, or the metal powder sealers, you can get them for about $6 for both at any AutoZone, Kragen, Napa, or PartsAmerica.

[rockybalboa11]

how did you remove them? i think ranger told me to use a hair dryer

but will there be a different color paint (due to wear and tear on the untouched paint under the pinestripe) underneath? that is my concern :-o

[misfit6794]

Alot of things goin on here, here's my 2 cents.

1. Get a CYLINDER LEAK TEST, this will determine if your headgaskets are failing, it will tell you definetly whether or not you have a leaky headgasket. If you have a cracked block (never heard of this one before on a N*) its pretty much a death sentence for the motor.

2. If it turns out to be your headgaskets, more than likely it will be, you are looking at 3000-4000 ( i paid 3500) to replace the headgaskets. The motor must be dropped out the bottom of the car. Each head bolt (all 20) must be retapped in the block using timeserts to ensure that the bolts will not back out again. The timesert kit is 300-400 dollars. And you could have warped a head by letting it overheat, you won't know until its apart.

3. If you get the block timeserted your chances are slim to none for another headgasket failure. You should get a warranty, and make sure you take it to a mechanic that has dealt with a northstar before, many mechanics won't even touch them.

4. If your block is cracked you are shit outta luck.

5. You would be lucky to get 2000-3000 for that car, even though it has extremely low miles for the year, whoever buys it is looking at rebuilding the motor or replacing it.

If I were you I would replace the entire motor, itll be 1000-2000 dollars more than rebuilding it. And if you decide to rebuild it, you may run into unforeseen problems, like a cracked block or warped head. Given the mileage, you should replace the engine, if you want to keep it. Trust me I know how you feel I went through the same thing, I sold mine. It turned into a money pit.

[Ranger]

I don't know why you are worried about a cracked block or head. That is almost unheard of.

Forget the snake oil sealers.

[afterburn]

Well you can't take them off if your car is beat up, the color underneath will definately be different. Im repainting my car, so i just sanded it down with 600 GRIT sand paper, but hey, you might be able to sand it with 1000 GRIT sandpaper, and water and then polish and then wax your car, this would help you out. But don't do this if you are not gonna do the whole side.

[JC316]

Well, I would certainly do the cylinder leak down test. I am not sure if your motor has the water crossover in the throttle body, but if it does, you might check to make sure that it's not sucking water in through there.

I would look at $3000 minimum to get the gaskets fixed, especially since you HAVE to have the timesert kit done and make SURE that the Timesert is done, otherwise, it will pop again (If you do decide to keep it, I have a timesert kit for sale )

I highly doubt that it caused damage anywhere else, the N*'s will automaticly shut off if it gets too hot, but check your mechanic for warranty anyway.

IF the block is cracked, (Highly unlikely), then a new motor is in order you can find them anywhere from $1000 used to possibly $5000 new.

If I were in your shoes, I would cut and run, unless you can come up with the money to hire a N* specialist, or do it yourself. With the sale of it and the $2000 you have for the HG, you can probably find something else, depending on your area.


I honestly don't think that you could get $3000 for it with a blown HG, but there is a buyer and a bargin on every street corner, so it's possible.

I got my 98 with a blown HG and 118K well cared for miles for $1500, but the guy NEEDED it gone.


I hope this helps you out in your decision.

[rfishing]

47k miles is not that much. You think someone would have come up with a replacement engine or something for all these Norstar engines blowing gaskets.

Its going to be costly to keep this car, everything seems expensive.

[iametarq]

Can I ask a dumb question? If what causes the headgaskets to go bad is the bolts backing out, would it be a bad idea if one were to just try and tighten them up periodically? (assuming they had the car new or just got the car).

Again this a dumb question because I don't know where the bolts are or how difficult is to get at them.

I agree with the others, get the block test done!

[misfit6794]

Its pretty hard to get to all the headbolts, especially the ones by the firewall. They back out because the threads in the block aren't long enough. So there wouldn't really be anything to tighten them into because the threads in the block would just pull out.

[QueensLacMan]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards dumping the car. I think I might be able to get at least $2000 for it - after all, the car's book value is around $8,000 - so the person buying it will still get a good deal ($2000 for car + $3000 in repairs = $5000 for flawless car with low mileage). I don't know... maybe it's wishful thinking on my part.

What I would like someone to explain to me is why I should even bother going through a block test. I mean, if there are white marks on the plugs, and the thermostat marker fluctuates wildly (gets hot going up hill, then levels off; gets hot as I speed up on speedway, cools down as I slow down), couldn't this only be a head gasket issue?

What will the block test prove/disprove? Will it tell me I don't have a head gasket problem and that something else is causing coolant to reach the spark plugs?

What if the block test and cylinder pressure test come back clean? How else can coolant get into the plugs?

My oil is fine... nothing milky at all. No "false boiling" going on in the tank. No leaks anywhere.

When the car overheated last week, I lost over a quart of coolant out through the overflow hose.

The ONLY reason I believe I have blown gaskets is because my mechanic showed me spark plugs with white residue on them. That along with the wild fluctuations of the thermostat, he said, are classic signs of gasket failure.

Is that enough to go on?

[afterburn]

My friend, I would 100% ensure you, you can get your answer by a Cylinder Pressure Test, this will tell you if you are having a bad gasket or otherwise.

Alot of mechanics will tell you that you have a HG problem, but really, they just want to reach into your pocket. my suggestion is go to other mechanics, just ask them what they think it could be, never tell them what YOU think it is, just let them take care of it.

Trying doing this before really selling your car, you might have to spend about $50 to get this done.

1. Replace your thermostats, thermostat gasket and hose leading to thermostat. $40.

2. Check for any released air out of hoses.

3. Make sure you do not have a clogged cooling system, meaning your water tank, radiator or hoses.

4. Buy a block sealer, these things will not cure your problem, but can really improve your ride and give you an extra 6-7 months of added protection. My 2000 Chevy Impala is still riding with this, its been 2 yrs since I added it, I had a cracked block, this fixed it up. $5-6

5. If all else doesn't work, buy a for sale sign. $4

[QueensLacMan]

Exactly a year ago, the previous owner had this work done:

New Radiator
New Theromostat
New Upper Hose
New Lower Hose

They also checked for leaks. He paid $900 including tax for all of this (he was a 75-year-old Chinese man; and he might have been taken advantage of).

My mechanic checked for leaks and found none.

He didn't do the cylinder pressure test because he said he was 100 percent sure the head gaskets were blown. He showed me the spark plugs and said they had coolant on them. He said the temperature on the car volleying back and forth was a classic HG sign. He told me I was just wasting money by doing the cylinder test.

He even suggested to me I sell the car. He said I should contact the previous owner and see if they'd give me any money back. Not once did he pressure me to fix the gaskets.

I don't think my mechanics are evil, but I do think they're kind of dumb. I stopped by today to ask them about doing a "block test" and they seemed pretty ignorant as to what that was. I'm going to try another shop later today.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks again.

[QueensLacMan]

Lastly, I got a tune-up done three weeks ago. Any chance my mechanics screwed something up that would have caused my plugs to turn white or come into contact with coolant?