JET releases N* Performance! - Page 2

danbuc · #16 (**permalink**) 03-06-07, 08:20 PM

Granatelli sells a MAF sensor for the LS1 I believe that will work with the N* as well. Pointless if you don't have the proper modifications to make use of it though.

codewize · #17 (**permalink**) 03-06-07, 08:48 PM

Exactly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by danbuc

Granatelli sells a MAF sensor for the LS1 I believe that will work with the N* as well. Pointless if you don't have the proper modifications to make use of it though.

jadcock · #18 (**permalink**) 03-06-07, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codewize

An interesting NOTE on this is that in 2000 the IAT sensor is in fact part of the MAF. It's built into the center of the MAF sensor so essentially yes they are the same on 2000 + models. The screen in the stock MAF is not a restriction it's an air straightener to ensure perfect airflow to the plenum.

That's interesting; I didn't know that (about them integrating both sensors). My comment stands though -- the point of a MAF sensor in general is to measure air density, as opposed to air temperature. Apparently they integrated both sensors into one piece on the 2000+ engines, but the two sensors still serve different functions.

And I agree -- the "screen" isn't really a screen, it's more of a honeycomb type matrix similar to a catalytic converter that is required for a "clean" MAF signal (in a stock MAF sensor anyway).

codewize · #19 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 09:39 AM

No not density Volume. The MAF measure the rate of airflow IE the amount of air, exactly, entering the engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadcock

That's interesting; I didn't know that (about them integrating both sensors). My comment stands though -- the point of a MAF sensor in general is to measure air density, as opposed to air temperature.

Right, two sensors in one unit. Different functions just housed together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadcock

Apparently they integrated both sensors into one piece on the 2000+ engines, but the two sensors still serve different functions.

Has nothing to do with the signal. It flattens or straightens the air so the air entering the intake plenum can flow at maximum velocity and in 'perfect form' if you will. That may help the reading too I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadcock

And I agree -- the "screen" isn't really a screen, it's more of a honeycomb type matrix similar to a catalytic converter that is required for a "clean" MAF signal (in a stock MAF sensor anyway).

jadcock · #20 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codewize

Has nothing to do with the signal. It flattens or straightens the air so the air entering the intake plenum can flow at maximum velocity and in 'perfect form' if you will. That may help the reading too I guess.

The "guru" (Northstar powertrain engineer) told us that the MAF "screen" was installed solely for MAF sensor signal. Turbulent or "dirty" air flowing across the MAF sensor can "dirty" the reading, or the signal. A straight and even flow of air is required for the MAF sensor to produce an accurate signal.

codewize · #21 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 03:12 PM

Really? Oh I apologize. I was under the impression that it was to maximize air flow. I wonder why all MAF's don't have that?

I stand humbly corrected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadcock

The "guru" (Northstar powertrain engineer) told us that the MAF "screen" was installed solely for MAF sensor signal. Turbulent or "dirty" air flowing across the MAF sensor can "dirty" the reading, or the signal. A straight and even flow of air is required for the MAF sensor to produce an accurate signal.

I do have a question though. Someone on the board said they have a Granatelli MAF 350119-C built for the LS6 cars on a Northstar I want to confirm that this setup will work. Anyone?

CadillacSTS2003 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 03:21 PM

why you gonna try it?

codewize · #23 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 05:39 PM

There's one for sale at a decent price. I was considering it anyway so if I can save some money and do it all the better. I personally think that's exactly what the CAI needs. I know I know it sounds weird but if you saw how the engine responds at low RPM to the Volant box you'd think the same thing. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm wondering who else has done this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadillacETC1997

why you gonna try it?

codewize · #24 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 06:21 PM

Wow I was searching around here and there are literally hundreds of posts saying these MAF's are useless except for one. Interestingly enough he claimed exactly what I'm seeing.

He added a K&N CAI to his Escalade and it was bogging in the low end. After installing the new MAF he claims all the low end power is back

danbuc · #25 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codewize

Wow I was searching around here and there are literally hundreds of posts saying these MAF's are useless except for one. Interestingly enough he claimed exactly what I'm seeing.

He added a K&N CAI to his Escalade and it was bogging in the low end. After installing the new MAF he claims all the low end power is back

The Vortec SBC engine int he Escalade a the N* in your DTS could be more different. Same goes for the programming. That MAF sensor is probably designed to work with the programming in the Escalades ECM. Although ithe Granatelli unit may work with our engines, it it not specifically tuned for it, therefor the gains will be minimal. It will most likely be a waste of money which could go towards a few tanks of gas instead. Even with the Volant, the addiion of the MAF sensor isn't going to improve much.

codewize · #26 (**permalink**) 03-07-07, 11:03 PM

I'm so up in the air on this. I do intend on adding the Corsa exhaust in the summer time but I know that has minimal impact on the topic here.

I wish I could find someone who's done this before. If I can get this thing at the right price I may try it just to do it but the right price is NOT $300.

Thanks

97STS4ME · #27 (**permalink**) 03-08-07, 12:34 AM

A Mass Air Flow sensor measures air Density. Which is why they are also called Air Mass Meters (mainly in europe). The key word being "mass". Mass = density, not volume.

A larger MAF sensor will not improve airflow on a N*. Why? Measure the TB butterfly bore sometime, then measure the size of the MAF sensor. I bet its smaller. The one on my car is, ive looked.
The engine will only draw as much air as it can fit through the TB, no more. A larger MAF will be of no performance gain without a larger TB, and even then, it proably still wont help much. GM designed the N* engine with peak performance in mind. Even the stock airbox isnt much of a restriction on the engine. I dropped in a K&N filter and cut a hole the size of a VHS tape in the bottom of my airbox, and there is almost NO diference. Its louder, (alot louder actually) but thats about it.

Point is, if you want any real gains from a N*, its gonna cost ALOT more than 300 bucks. And take more than 10 minutes to install.

jadcock · #28 (**permalink**) 03-08-07, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97STS4ME

A Mass Air Flow sensor measures air Density. Which is why they are also called Air Mass Meters (mainly in europe). The key word being "mass". Mass = density, not volume.

No!!! Mass does NOT equal density. This is basic physics. Think of a cardboard box, 2 cu. ft. in volume and weighing 5 pounds. The box has two basic properties:

Volume = 2 cu. ft.
Mass = 5 lbs.

From this, you can CALCULATE density. Density is generally mass/unit volume.

Density = 5 lbs/2cu. ft., or 2.5 lbs/cu. ft.

Different types of MAF sensors measure airflow and density differently. Not all strictly measure "mass", but all are generally referred to as "mass air flow sensors".

A vane meter MAF sensor responds directly to volume, not air density. In conjunction with a few other sensors, such as pressure and/or temperature, a true air mass can be calculated.

A hot-wire MAF (like many MAF sensors are) produce resistance with increasing temperature. As air flows over the wire, the wire is cooled. More current is supplied to the wire to maintain a certain (hot) temperature and that current is directly proportional to the mass of air flowing across it, because a denser airflow will remove more heat from the wire.

A cold-wire MAF (like what I believe our Northstars use) uses a small sensor inside that produces an inductance, which is coverted into a frequency and that signal is passed to the PCM. The sensor responds directly to the volume of air (CFM), not to density. The PCM can CALCULATE density based upon a few other sensors, such as an air temperture sensor, barometric pressure sensor, etc.

But again, remember, mass does NOT equal density.

CadillacSTS2003 · #29 (**permalink**) 03-08-07, 11:03 AM

wow
i really started something here with this one hahaha

Patrick7997 · #30 (**permalink**) 03-08-07, 12:07 PM

Those were very popular in the C5 Corvette World.... almost always done in combination with an improved air intake system, like a Blackwing or something....

FWIW, I put a Blackwing and a MAF sensor in my C5, and it made a real nice difference... sounded better, ran better, pulled harder..... And after the Borla Cat-Back, it was really sounding and running nice.... car literally came to life....

Funny that a Corvette doesn't need to have it's "air straightened" with some honeycomb thing, but a Northstar seemingly does.....

Funny how I keep hearing that the "Stock" airbox in a Northstar is so great, yet in the Corvette world, it was common knowledge that a big part of the engineering in the stock pos airbox was to get the sound down to EPA levels... thus, the airbox was the first thing to go in the garbage when you got home.... Hmm.....