Performance Brakes...

Odin8 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 12:35 AM

I need brakes pretty badly, and I'm looking into getting a good set of performance pads and some slotted/dimpled rotors. Looking at Hawk HPS pads for one, anyone have any experience with these? Anyone have any other suggestions? Don't know much about the different performance brake brands, so I'm open to input. I don't want/need crazy performance, I just want something that's a bit better then OEM and has low dust.

Mark Bunds · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 02:13 AM

I purchased a set of four drilled/slotted rotors on ebay for $150.00, and they are pretty nice. I was concerned about balance, but they seem to be just as smoothy balanced as the OEM rotors, and the STS rides as smoothly as it ever did.

I also bought the Hawk pads, but I noticed that there is easily 30% less material along the length of the pad (same thickness though) than OEM, so I have to wonder how these pads can claim "higher performance". They also feature a pronounced taper toward the disk surface when they are brand new, requiring them to be worn in before they begin to perform well.

The Hawk pads I bought had no provisions for the brake wear sensors, so I had to wire the sensors to the back of the calipers to keep them out of the way.

Immediately after installing them, I was unable to cause the ABS to engage, and my stopping distance increased radically, so I would advise extreme caution until the pads wear in which will take approximately 150-200 miles. They seem fine now after wearing in, and the ABS works normally, but I am keeping an eye on them because of the reduced amount of pad surface.

The slotted rotors in combination with these pads also produce a slight feel of "pulsing" caused by the slotted zones passing beneath the pads as the car slows, but I assume this to be normal.

In summary, if I had to do it over again, I would recommend the slotted/drilled rotors, but I would stay with OEM pads since they are made to accept the new wear sensors which are included in a new set, and they have a lot more braking surface than the Hawk pads do.

EcSTSatic · #3 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 08:30 AM

If you want low dust get ceramics, Rockauto sells AC Delco DuraStop pads. Check your wear sensors - you may need to order new ones. My new rotors are drilled and slotted.

Raze · #4 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 10:14 AM

I put R1 Concepts slotted & cross drilled rotors and Axxis Metal Master Brake Pads which are semi-metalic on my Eldo about 500 miles ago and have been very pleased with the results.

As a comparison I had the ACDelco upgraded discs, with the ceramic durastop pads and I could only barely get the ABS to engage to the point where the tires would partially lock on a panic stop, (this was when they were brand new). Now, if I stomp on the brakes the ABS has to work overtime as the tires all around fight not to stay locked up which was very impressive.

There are 2 differences though that you should be aware of:

1) The Axxis pads do need to warm up so the first stop in the morning is a bit 'squishy' by comparison to the ACDelco durastops, but after that they're superior, period.

2) The slotted, cross drilled rotors give some noise under braking with the windows down, sounds like mild 'chatter' as the pads pass over the slots, but it doesn't bother me.

The Hawks and the Axxis cost about the same over on www.buybrakes.com so take your pick! I personally like ceramic pads (have them on my project track car) but for daily driver usage, metals tend to last longer so that's why I went with the semi-metalic Axxis that work just fine with the existing brake pad sensors....

01STS · #5 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 10:32 AM

I have the Hawk ceramic "Z" compound on my car with Power Slot rotors. No dust or noise and they stop way better than the O.E. stuff. Only complaint is that there is no spot to mount the brake pad sensor on the Hawk pads. I had to make a jumper to complete the circuit so I didn't get the "CHANGE BRAKE PADS" warning on the driver display.

This week I will be installing the Baer Track and Touring system on another 2001 STS. If it works as well as it looks then I may have to upgrade again on mine.

Odin8 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-26-07, 11:12 PM

From what I've been looking at I'm kinding leaning towards Hawk pads and Power slot rotors myself so far. I was looking for ceramic pads made by Hawk for my year though, and I don't think they make them? Another question...I can find performance rotors for the front everywhere, but I can't find any for the back...kinda bugs me, I want to put the same on all the way around. Any ideas?

97STS4ME · #7 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 12:09 AM

Quote:

I can find performance rotors for the front everywhere, but I can't find any for the back...kinda bugs me, I want to put the same on all the way around. Any ideas?

Search Ebay for R1 Concepts.

01STS · #8 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 12:10 AM

yeah same here I got fronts but no rears. I bet it is due to there not being enough material on them to slot as it is a non vented rotor.

jadcock · #9 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 07:42 AM

I have Powerstop drilled rotors on the front of my '97, with Bendix HD pads. It doesn't stop any "better" than it did before (meaning no extra braking power), but MAN are these things long-lasting. This car would have to go through a set of pads and/or rotors every 30k miles prior. Since I put on the drilled rotors and new pads, it's been almost 80,000 miles since I've touched the front brakes.

Last time I checked, I could have ordered slotted or drilled rotors for the rear, but I elected not to. These are the rotors I bought:

http://www.powerstoprotors.com/

The best part about them is the ones I bought are "gold cadmium" coated. You can see that here: http://www.powerstoprotors.com/power...led_rotors.htm

I thought, "yeah, nice marketing term", but no really...there's not a spec of rust on these things. It doesn't look like much more than gold paint, but whatever it is, baby it works! Here's a picture of them installed on my '97:

http://www.jnjhome.net/cadillac/rotors.htm

internetauto · #10 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadcock

I have Powerstop drilled rotors on the front of my '97, with Bendix HD pads. It doesn't stop any "better" than it did before (meaning no extra braking power), but MAN are these things long-lasting. This car would have to go through a set of pads and/or rotors every 30k miles prior. Since I put on the drilled rotors and new pads, it's been almost 80,000 miles since I've touched the front brakes.

Last time I checked, I could have ordered slotted or drilled rotors for the rear, but I elected not to. These are the rotors I bought:

http://www.powerstoprotors.com/

The best part about them is the ones I bought are "gold cadmium" coated. You can see that here: http://www.powerstoprotors.com/power...led_rotors.htm

I thought, "yeah, nice marketing term", but no really...there's not a spec of rust on these things. It doesn't look like much more than gold paint, but whatever it is, baby it works!

Well that website is a couple of years out of date now

Powerstop is a GREAT company to work with,
They make some seriously nice products
their Actual home page: http://powerstop.com/
I'm still no fan of crossdrilled rotors, nor are the people I know that actually use them
If you guys want anything from them let me know

The bendix HD pads you are talking about are probably the "FM" series AKA Fleet Metallic they do have a bit more bite than regular semi-metallic and last longer than regular ones.
I think my STS has them on it, I think that's what I sold the previous owner for it

I just checked one side on the front and they're still good :-\ no excuse to upgrade yet. when the time comes I'll be talking to my guys at powerstop

danbuc · #11 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raze

As a comparison I had the ACDelco upgraded discs

Were those Durastop discs? I keep seeing them on all different sites but can never find a pic. I thought they were drilled and slotted but I wasn't sure. Just curious.

On a side note, My front pads and rotors are beyond shot, and probably have been unsafe to drive on the last 3k miles. The rotors are seriously burnt, and the pads are down to probably 3-4mm max...pretty damn low. I got about 35k miles out of the stock OEM semi-metallic pads and rotors with what I would refer to as rather abusive driving. I have a tendency to beat the crap out of my brakes, what with driving in and out of NY city a lot, and making numerous high speed braking maneuvers almost every week.

I had EBC sport rotors, and Green Stuff pads on my car before the stock stuff that's on now, and they were toast in less than 10k miles. Really poor quality stuff there. I've been trying to decide myself as to which way to go brake wise. Labor is free since I do the work in the shop...after work. I don't care if I only get 30k out of my brakes, but I don't wanna spend more on "after market stuff" if it's only gonna last half as long as the OEM stuff. I was considering a set of Powerslot rotors...maybe, but I can't decide one what kind of pads to go with. I will never go cross drilled, since with the use my breaks get, they'd likely crack, and end up breaking apart. Hell, the surface of my current rotors are covered in minute stress cracks. Anyway, I just thought I'd ask everyone's opinion as well.

Oh, and noise is not really an issue, as long as I don't sound like like the PATH train pulling into Hoboken every time I come to a light.

edit: Something else worth mention is the fact that the slotted rotors have a tendency to eat up the pads quicker than a drilled or flat surface rotor. Another reason for my concern. I'd be kinda angry spending all that money on the expensive pads and rotors, just to have the pads get eaten up in 15k, and then be stuck with rotors I can't cut. As a general rule, I will not replace only the pads unless the rotor is cut. Kind of a catch 22 though, since I've yet to have a set of front rotors on my car that out lived one set of pads. Kinda why I'm hesitant to spend more over the stock stuff.

internetauto · #12 (**permalink**) 02-27-07, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danbuc

Were those Durastop discs? I keep seeing them on all different sites but can never find a pic. I thought they were drilled and slotted but I wasn't sure. Just curious.

On a side note, My front pads and rotors are beyond shot, and probably have been unsafe to drive on the last 3k miles. The rotors are seriously burnt, and the pads are down to probably 3-4mm max...pretty damn low. I got about 35k miles out of the stock OEM semi-metallic pads and rotors with what I would refer to as rather abusive driving. I have a tendency to beat the crap out of my brakes, what with driving in and out of NY city a lot, and making numerous high speed braking maneuvers almost every week.

I had EBC sport rotors, and Green Stuff pads on my car before the stock stuff that's on now, and they were toast in less than 10k miles. Really poor quality stuff there. I've been trying to decide myself as to which way to go brake wise. Labor is free since I do the work in the shop...after work. I don't care if I only get 30k out of my brakes, but I don't wanna spend more on "after market stuff" if it's only gonna last half as long as the OEM stuff. I was considering a set of Powerslot rotors...maybe, but I can't decide one what kind of pads to go with. I will never go cross drilled, since with the use my breaks get, they'd likely crack, and end up breaking apart. Hell, the surface of my current rotors are covered in minute stress cracks. Anyway, I just thought I'd ask everyone's opinion as well.

Oh, and noise is not really an issue, as long as I don't sound like like the PATH train pulling into Hoboken every time I come to a light.

edit: Something else worth mention is the fact that the slotted rotors have a tendency to eat up the pads quicker than a drilled or flat surface rotor. Another reason for my concern. I'd be kinda angry spending all that money on the expensive pads and rotors, just to have the pads get eaten up in 15k, and then be stuck with rotors I can't cut. As a general rule, I will not replace only the pads unless the rotor is cut. Kind of a catch 22 though, since I've yet to have a set of front rotors on my car that out lived one set of pads. Kinda why I'm hesitant to spend more over the stock stuff.

Durastop is nothing more than reboxed raybestos parts.
If you trully want OE then look at true Delco products, not Durastop.
example: 93 STS
OE delco pad # 171-564 (short #)
Durajunk # 17D505C
OE Delco Rotor # 177-777 (short #)
Durajunk # 18A559

did you (or anyone else here) ever wonder why the factory put blank rotors on the cars? crossdrilled or slotted rotors would weigh less, and cost the same to make at the OE level.
Blank rotors are MORE effective on a street car and last longer.

danbuc · #13 (**permalink**) 02-28-07, 12:10 AM

I already mentioned that I didn't want cross drilled rotors, because they'd get destroyed on my car in a few months worth of driving. I've got the OEM pads and rotors on it now. They have lasted about 35k miles, but just barely. They don't work very well anymore. When it rains and I have to brake on the highway, I've gotta wait a few hundred feet before all the water clears before I actually get any measurable braking.

I guess I'll just throw another set of OEM AC Delco rotor son the thing. Now, the only question is pads. I'm back to where I started last week. OE rotor, but which pads to use? That's the question, which was already asked. As I said before, unlike some....pad noise is not so much an issue for me, as is reduced heat and fading. If they last and work exceptionally well, I could care less about brake dust either. Nothing a quick wash won't take care of.

Odin8 · #14 (**permalink**) 02-28-07, 12:12 AM

Think I've decided on Hawk pads, but I still dunno about rotors. I definately want to try and stay away from drilled rotors. And the gold color plated ones just aren't doing it for me. Just kinda having trouble finding 4 rotors all silver and not cross drilled.

danbuc · #15 (**permalink**) 02-28-07, 12:42 AM

I think the real issue is HOW HARD do you actually drive you car. I drive mine hard enough to the point where even the most expensive rotors won't last much longer than the OE units. There's still plenty of thickness left on mine, but they're so burnt that I can't cut them. If you drive the car really hard like I do, it's probably not worth it to spend the extra money if the stuff is just gonna get chewed up anyway. I'll probably end up just throwing the OE pads on. Going the after market route is too hit or mis for me, especially since I've gotten burned (no pun intended) by non OE brakes.

The other point worth mentioning, is the fact that the rotor and pads size alone limit the amount of increased performance you will see. The front rotors are grossly undersized for the percentage of the vehicle's weight they must stop. The pads size is also pretty small too. This simple fact means that no matter what kind of rotors or pads you get, they will still be inadequate for the car. You can only do so much with different materials, before you have to physically increase the amount of material used.

This is why it really doest pay to buy the ultra uber expensive pads and rotors for these cars, especially if you don't drive it really hard. Personally, I'm still somewhat amazed that the OE brakes and rotors have lasted as long as they did on my car. Granted they're burnt up something fierce, but they're still working. That should say something for the OE brakes.