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Cadillac Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Tuning Discussion, What is an Aj tune? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Ignore my post, I think I got Highlines and CodeWise's times mixed.... Originally Posted by N0DIH Ok, this should be ...
  1. #61
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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Ignore my post, I think I got Highlines and CodeWise's times mixed....

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Ok, this should be a tad closer....

    Using the ET method, I come up with 232 horsepower
    Using the Speed method, I come up with 256 horsepower

    Using the ET method, I come up with 254 horsepower
    Using the Speed method, I come up with 279 horsepower

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    Is that both runs for Code's car or one from Highline's and one from Code's?

    Code ran a 1/4 mile 15.49 @ 90.28 MPH on the stock PCM
    Code ran a 1/4 mile 15.61 @ 90.17 MPH on my PCM. This is OK for me. This is not what I am debating
    Highline ran a 1/4th mile 15.143 @ 92.84 mph & 15.169 @ 93.21 mph on my tune. This is my point!!!!!!!!!!!!

    How ever you look at it a car with out any DTC's setting ran quicker and faster than a that a car setting DTC's and a STOCK TUNE. Is that is a fact Correct?

    6/12/08 to 7/30/08
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...des-p0171.html

    7/18/08 new thread 8/2/08
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ean-thing.html

    Started 7/30/08
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post1593057
    The reason I spent so much time on these facts (Code ran a 1/4 mile 15.49 @ 90.28 MPH on the stock PCM vs Highline ran a 1/4th mile 15.143 @ 92.84 mph & 15.169 @ 93.21 mph on my tune) is because we were getting similar result changes when we swapped Tunes in Highline's car.

    Highlines car with a stock VIN 9 3.71 gear tune 15.551 on the GM Data-Logger. Hmmmm That is about what Code ran CORRECT?
    I have another Run that was 15.8 on the stock tune in Highlines car with the GM Data-Logger. (it looks like some tire spin on the graph)

    Can we agree on a stock VIN 9 car will run about 15.5?

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post

    oh no it was a different car, but they were done both in July. Oh no. Different years. That can't be good.
    After almost 2 years... You are FINALLY getting it!

    If you have no base line run... you CAN'T PROCLAIM anything...

    Just like D3 based their power generation number on a years old test on a very tired 1994 Eldorado... that they didn't test (the test was done by Hot Rod magazine on a Junk yard car that they were collecting the engine from)... you CAN'T compare the times of two completely different cars on two different tracks, different wind, different weather, different tires, different drivers, different elevations, different timing system, different fuel, different cars... and claim you have proof... You have proven NOTHING with this.

    Why not compare your car to that same 1994 Eldorado that Hot Rod ran... a 16.2 quarter with.. Google it, it is easy to find... Now you are making over 100 extra HP on your Tune ... Wow!

    The more you make all of these goofy Apples to Oranges Comparisons the more we go and the more you confuse every one...

    This doesn't need to be confusing... or difficult.

    1 Car
    1 Day
    1 Driver
    1 Track
    2 PCMs
    2 Runs (one for each PCM)

    ZERO ARGUMENTS.

    The ONLY person who has done this so far was CODEWISE... your tune made his car slower and he runs the Stock PCM now with better results and better performance... and THATS A FACT.

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    Can we agree on a stock VIN 9 car will run about 15.5?
    No, most stock Vin 9 Devilles that were tested over the years by Car and Driver and others consistantly run in the 15.1-15.2 range...

    hmmm sound familular...

    NOW DO YOU SEE WHY YOU NEED A BASELINE RUN?

    If we are guessing about what the stock car will do...we are guessing about the tune...

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    The reason I spent so much time on these facts (Code ran a 1/4 mile 15.49 @ 90.28 MPH on the stock PCM vs Highline ran a 1/4th mile 15.143 @ 92.84 mph & 15.169 @ 93.21 mph on my tune) is because we were getting similar result changes when we swapped Tunes in Highline's car.

    Highlines car with a stock VIN 9 3.71 gear tune 15.551 on the GM Data-Logger. Hmmmm That is about what Code ran CORRECT?
    I have another Run that was 15.8 on the stock tune in Highlines car with the GM Data-Logger. (it looks like some tire spin on the graph)

    Can we agree on a stock VIN 9 car will run about 15.5?
    Is 15.5 about a stock time for a DTS or was Code's car having issuses?

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    So this would be accurate then?

    http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-De...lip-15979.html
    http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-De...lip-12172.html

    1994 Cadillac DeVille Concours 7.8 15.8
    1995 Cadillac DeVille Concours 6.9 15.2
    1996 Cadillac DeVille Concours 7.2 15.4
    1998 Cadillac DeVille Concours 6.9 15.1


    Or a 50 shot of Nitrous and a tuned PCM...
    http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-DT...lip-15016.html

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    More Apples to Oranges... more confusion

    Here is a link to a Car and Driver test of a
    BONE STOCK 2001 Vin 9 300 HP DTS..
    In the quarter it goes... 15.0

    Download the PDF here:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/layout/s...version/2/file

    Why not just compare AJ's tune to Tim Allen's 2000 DTS?

    That car was reported to make almost 400HP...
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...cs+page-4.html

    To bad it is slower in the quarter (15.1) then the BONE STOCK car documented above... Lord knows why Tim is smiling in that picture.. He just got taken to the cleaners on that car!

    Can we at least agree that if we constantly compare two different cars, on different days, at different tracks, with different drivers, on different tires, of different model years, with different miles on the clock... our comparisons ARE MEANINGLESS...

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Actual timeslips on dragtimes don't show anyone in a 00-05 hitting 15.0 in the quarter.

    Magazines are notorious for funny times or prepared cars, often from GM itself. I wouldn't base jack on them unless I had the car and could duplicate the results myself.

  9. #69
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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Magazines are notorious for funny times or prepared cars, often from GM itself. I wouldn't base jack on them unless I had the car and could duplicate the results myself.
    Which is EXACTLY my point...

    We keep throwing around numbers like 15.5, 15.4, 15.3 like they are gospel...
    Except THEY AREN'T.
    We keep saying there is no report of a Stock DTS going faster then 15.2...
    Except THERE ARE.

    We keep picking and choosing times, almost at random to prove a tune, when what you should do is a controlled scientific run... Remember from High School Chemistry? Remember the control sample... You try to make the conditions as CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the sample that you have changed so you can measure JUST THE CHANGE...

    Around and around we go... This is not hard to do... We just don't want to do it.

    1 Car
    1 Day
    1 Driver
    1 Track
    2 PCMs
    2 Runs (one for each PCM)

    BTW Car and Driver is Notorious for being STICKLERS when it comes to their performance numbers.. They normally ONLY publish numbers that they have collected with there OWN certified and calibrated "third wheel" test equipment. If they publish manufactures numbers (which is rare) they include a footnote documenting this. The collect test cars from local dealerships and OEM engineers and techs are not allowed to "fiddle" with them.

    While Car and Driver editorials and comparison pieces have become "fluff" over the years. Their performance numbers are consider to be beyond reproach by most.

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ur7x View Post
    Which is EXACTLY my point...

    We keep throwing around numbers like 15.5, 15.4, 15.3 like they are gospel...
    Except THEY AREN'T.
    We keep saying there is no report of a Stock DTS going faster then 15.2...
    Except THERE ARE.

    We keep picking and choosing times, almost at random to prove a tune, when what you should do is a controlled scientific run... Remember from High School Chemistry? Remember the control sample... You try to make the conditions as CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the sample that you have changed so you can measure JUST THE CHANGE...

    Around and around we go... This is not hard to do... We just don't want to do it.

    1 Car
    1 Day
    1 Driver
    1 Track
    2 PCMs
    2 Runs (one for each PCM)

    BTW Car and Driver is Notorious for being STICKLERS when it comes to their performance numbers.. They normally ONLY publish numbers that they have collected with there OWN certified and calibrated "third wheel" test equipment. If they publish manufactures numbers (which is rare) they include a footnote documenting this. The collect test cars from local dealerships and OEM engineers and techs are not allowed to "fiddle" with them.

    While Car and Driver editorials and comparison pieces have become "fluff" over the years. Their performance numbers are consider to be beyond reproach by most.

    So all I got from you other that REFUSING to answer my questions AGAIN is that this car at this track and this car at the same track on the same day making the runs at the same time won't work CORRECT?


    Car #1 http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-De...lip-15979.html

    Car #2 Codewize's Pass # 2 1/4 mile 15.49 @ 90.28 MPH

    You are 100% Limited

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    I have a quick question for your limited mind.

    In a performance application on a CCC car what would you set the M/C Dwell to?

    Very simple. Hey my next question will be WHY, but we can wait.

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    Is 15.5 about a stock time for a DTS or was Code's car having issuses?
    I have answered this question over and over... NO 15.5 is NOT a stock time for a DTS. Stock times for a DTS range in the 15.0-15.2 range.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    So all I got from you other that REFUSING to answer my questions AGAIN is that this car at this track and this car at the same track on the same day making the runs at the same time won't work CORRECT?


    Car #1 http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-De...lip-15979.html

    Car #2 Codewize's Pass # 2 1/4 mile 15.49 @ 90.28 MPH
    Your post makes no sense...

    So we are comparing Code's tuned car with another tuned car and they produce the same number... which is slower then a stock car...

    Which is my point

    Is that what you are posting?

    If so, then, Yes you are CORRECT, this doesn't work, and proves nothing...

  13. #73
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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ur7x View Post
    I have answered this question over and over... NO 15.5 is NOT a stock time for a DTS. Stock times for a DTS range in the 15.0-15.2 range.



    Your post makes no sense...

    So we are comparing Code's tuned car with another tuned car and they produce the same number... which is slower then a stock car...

    Which is my point

    Is that what you are posting?

    If so, then, Yes you are CORRECT, this doesn't work, and proves nothing...

    It is the same car
    Argue some more D0md A$$

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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    I have a quick question for your limited mind.

    In a performance application on a CCC car what would you set the M/C Dwell to?

    Very simple. Hey my next question will be WHY, but we can wait.
    If you are now installing Quadrajets Carburetors on NorthStars we are moving backwards... how does this help?

    Oh that's right, our job here it to confuse everyone... rather then answer very simple questions.

    But the answer is that at WOT the CCC system basically deactivates the primary mixture solenoid and it goes to 10 degrees dwell, full rich, and the car runs on the secondary (mechanical) fuel delivery circuit.

    If you are tuning the fuel mixture system on a CCC system looking for power you are wasting your time... The system at full load is just an Old School Mechanical Quadra jet. Most (all) CCC tuners are only working with the spark table.

  15. #75
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    Re: What is an Aj tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ur7x View Post
    If you are now installing Quadrajets Carburetors on NorthStars we are moving backwards... how does this help?

    Oh that's right, our job here it to confuse everyone... rather then answer very simple questions.

    But the answer is that at WOT the CCC system basically deactivates the primary mixture solenoid and it goes to 10 degrees dwell, full rich, and the car runs on the secondary (mechanical) fuel delivery circuit.

    If you are tuning the fuel mixture system on a CCC system looking for power you are wasting your time... The system at full load is just an Old School Mechanical Quadra jet. Most (all) CCC tuners are only working with the spark table.
    That is funny. I thought you knew a little more on Theory. Guess not

    That was my point. Your lack of Knowledge

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