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Cadillac News, Concepts, Future Models, Rumors and more Discussion, Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ? in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by Haleykeek they need to build a larger DOHC V8 before they start into uncharted waters like a ...
  1. #16
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haleykeek
    they need to build a larger DOHC V8 before they start into uncharted waters like a V10 or V12.seriously,how old is the 4.6L DOHC V8? 13 years old,and it's still displacing only 4.6Litres? man,this thing should be at least a 5.4Litre by now.GM has a serious and pathetic problem with the notion of:"it can't be faster than the corvette" mentality.Cadillac showed the world that they can build a V12 supercar that could not only run circles around a corvette,but embarass it too.the cien should be a reality,and not another wet dream.i think that Cadillac should get a V12 sedan,V12 Escalade,and a V12 Cien.if i ran the car company,they would have the 16.
    5.4?!?! That would really screw up the engine. Piston speeds would be too high, it wouldn't be able to rev like ours could. The anwer is efficiency, not displacement. BMW pulls 355HP out of 4.6 liters (X5 4.6is), Lexus supposedly gets 380 out of it. Maybe increasing the Northstar design to 4.8 or 5.0 would work, but 5.4 would require an unacceptable lengthening of the stroke. It would totally wreck its character. Do you want Cacillacs powered by truck engines or something?

    As far as the Corvette mentality, I do agree there. I think the XLR-v shouldn't be kept behind the regular Corvette. I think GM's philosophy should be satisfied as long as you don't exceed the fastest Corvette. Put it somewhere between the Corvette and the Corvette Z06, I think you'd be great. Look at Mercedes. There's no real performance difference in terms of straight line speed between the SL65 AMG and the SLR McLaren. The SLR doesn't even handle anywhere near as well as a car like that should.

    I think GM needs a lesson, and I think the Corvette needs to be discontinued. It's not a sports car anymore, it's a stupid status badge for old guys in midlife crises. If they don't discontinue it, I want to see the automatic transmission gone, the cupholders removed. It's a sports car. I swear I might just get sick next time I see some idiot dentist on his way to work drinking his coffee, reading parts of the newspaper, and driving his Corvette at the same time. It's one of the reasons I sold mine. I'm not a schmuck. These idiot Corvette drivers who are wrecking it for those who want the car for what it is, not for how it looks. It's cheap anyway. $45K is nothing for a status car. If you want status, buy a Lexus. They are little more.

  2. #17
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750
    5.4?!?! That would really screw up the engine. Piston speeds would be too high, it wouldn't be able to rev like ours could. The anwer is efficiency, not displacement. BMW pulls 355HP out of 4.6 liters (X5 4.6is), Lexus supposedly gets 380 out of it. Maybe increasing the Northstar design to 4.8 or 5.0 would work, but 5.4 would require an unacceptable lengthening of the stroke. It would totally wreck its character. Do you want Cacillacs powered by truck engines or something?

    As far as the Corvette mentality, I do agree there. I think the XLR-v shouldn't be kept behind the regular Corvette. I think GM's philosophy should be satisfied as long as you don't exceed the fastest Corvette. Put it somewhere between the Corvette and the Corvette Z06, I think you'd be great. Look at Mercedes. There's no real performance difference in terms of straight line speed between the SL65 AMG and the SLR McLaren. The SLR doesn't even handle anywhere near as well as a car like that should.

    I think GM needs a lesson, and I think the Corvette needs to be discontinued. It's not a sports car anymore, it's a stupid status badge for old guys in midlife crises. If they don't discontinue it, I want to see the automatic transmission gone, the cupholders removed. It's a sports car. I swear I might just get sick next time I see some idiot dentist on his way to work drinking his coffee, reading parts of the newspaper, and driving his Corvette at the same time. It's one of the reasons I sold mine. I'm not a schmuck. These idiot Corvette drivers who are wrecking it for those who want the car for what it is, not for how it looks. It's cheap anyway. $45K is nothing for a status car. If you want status, buy a Lexus. They are little more.
    um corvette dominates a lot of motorsport events. even the owners are dominating their class in auto-x

  3. #18
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    I'm not arguing with what the car can do. I'm saying that the car needs to get back to its "origins". It's not an upscale car. Anyone who has had a C4 will understand what I mean, the almost punishing ride on anything but perfect roads, the lack of most creature comforts, the cupholders that were obviously afterthoughts and are totally worthless. It's a sport machine. Primarily speed, secondarily handling.

    And the Corvette does not dominate autocross. They do rather badly at autocross, when compared to what they should do. I wouldn't be surprised to see a CTS-V beat the C6, I have seen them beat C5s. The BMW M5, Audi RS-6, and Mercedes E55 both beat them fairly easily.

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750
    I'm not arguing with what the car can do. I'm saying that the car needs to get back to its "origins". It's not an upscale car. Anyone who has had a C4 will understand what I mean, the almost punishing ride on anything but perfect roads, the lack of most creature comforts, the cupholders that were obviously afterthoughts and are totally worthless. It's a sport machine. Primarily speed, secondarily handling.

    And the Corvette does not dominate autocross. They do rather badly at autocross, when compared to what they should do. I wouldn't be surprised to see a CTS-V beat the C6, I have seen them beat C5s. The BMW M5, Audi RS-6, and Mercedes E55 both beat them fairly easily.
    WOW!!!!
    you've never seen the results for the national competition have you?
    Let me educate you on this real quick
    This is for Super Stock class (E46 m3, 93~95 RX7 (FD3), Boxster, Lotus Elise, 911 GT3, 911, Viper)
    http://www.scca.com/solo/index.asp?reference=archives
    c5/z06 won every pro event including the finale except one in 2005
    c5/z06 won every national tour including the championship except two in 2005
    This has been the same since 2002. If you're telling me that cts-v, m5, rs6, e55 will beat them easily, let me see the results.

    FYI, cars you've listed is all under f class and its time is no where near superstock

  5. #20
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    the northstar should be displacing more cubic inches than 279,i think.it should already be making 350-375bhp by now,without superhcarging it.seems to me like the northstar is about similiar in nature to the fords power plant.i like blowers,but i like the larger motor first.add the blower later.

  6. #21
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    The Northstar is NOT like Ford's engine.

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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haleykeek
    the northstar should be displacing more cubic inches than 279,i think.it should already be making 350-375bhp by now,without superhcarging it.seems to me like the northstar is about similiar in nature to the fords power plant.i like blowers,but i like the larger motor first.add the blower later.
    unlike ford, gm dumped a lot of technology into the northstar v8 to have the luxury like characteristics. I think their focus was more on that characteristics more than power. If power was their focus, sts-v will probably have the supercharged ls2 like shown in the SAE concept instead of supercharged northstar

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    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Yeah, I agree on that one. The ideal balance of luxury and power is not a particularly easy one. The Northstar is smoother than a BMW 4.4 V8, comparable HP and a bit less torque (1999 BMW 4.4 = 282 HP + 324 ft-lbs.)

    It's all around better than the Mercedes 4.2, which eats more than twice the head gaskets the Northstars do.

    Oh, also, the Mark VIII has head gasket issues too, as does the DOHC Mustang Cobra (Same engine).

  9. #24
    Haleykeek's Avatar
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    i have a 94 Seville STS, with the northstar V8 .and it has a nice set of turbo mufflers on it,and a shift kit.the car sounds sweet.it pulls hard,and i have'nt had any Lincoln challenge me yet.what i would like to see,is for the NorthStar to grow in size.going from a 4.6 to a 4.4 is not what i'm talking about even if there's a blower in place.there should aleready be a stroked version of the current NorthStar out there for the larger cadillacs and trucks.the Escalade should have a 5.4litre DOHC NorthStar V8 putting out 425bhp right now.The current motor is over a decade old,and still,i have'nt seen an aftermarket supercharger,or stroker kit for this engine.Cadillac definitely should build a larger motor.they seem to have a love affair with chevrolet.i think that the "non-pedigree" cadillacs (that use chevy motors) should'nt wear the wreath,and creast.Because they're not "pedigree cadillacs".VVT can only go so far.after that,what's next? more superchargers?

  10. #25
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750
    The Northstar is NOT like Ford's engine.
    in some cases,no,but in other cases,yes they are.the Lincolns DOHC V8 4.6Litre is similiar.

  11. #26
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haleykeek
    in some cases,no,but in other cases,yes they are.the Lincolns DOHC V8 4.6Litre is similiar.
    it's hard to compare the two engines besides output since there is much more involved then config and displacement.

  12. #27
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    There are not similar, especially in terms of the electronics and features of the engine management. Ford's is pedestrian. They tried to copy some of the features of our cooling system, have you looked at a Mark VIII's thermostat and housing setup lately?

  13. #28
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haleykeek
    the Escalade should have a 5.4litre DOHC NorthStar V8 putting out 425bhp right now.
    Wouldn't be the best idea, the Escalade is a heavy truck, it needs a bigger pushrod motor with lots of lower-end torque. Northstar is a high-revver, a horse-power making motor. Truth of the matter is, Cadillac needs a V-10 or a V-12, either or, but it needs one of them if it plans on continuing to compete with M's and AMG's. The Northstar is one of the best-designed engines in the world, but it's getting old. Cadillac needs to build a V-12 with a newer design. V-10's just can't be as balanced or as smooth as a V-12, it's physics. The new M5 is one sure rocket-sled that Cadillac can directly compete with if it builds a V-12, but until it does, it won't be able to fully compete. A V-10 or V-12 is essential, and I bet we'll see one in a few years. Cadillac knows this is all true.

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    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    To the next IDIOT who mentions a 5.4 liter Northstar, go back and read up on piston speeds and how they relate to high end torque and to an engine's ability to handle high RPM, which the Northstar does very well. Do you want an to put a truck engine in a Cadillac? That's what you would be doing. Go back to your FORD truck on your farm shoveling manure and leave the civilized automobiles to people with brains. Anyone who says any Ford truck is civilized, you can go with him. Might I remind you that the Excursion Limited has leaf spring front suspension.

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadilac V-10 or V-12 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750
    To the next IDIOT who mentions a 5.4 liter Northstar, go back and read up on piston speeds and how they relate to high end torque and to an engine's ability to handle high RPM, which the Northstar does very well. Do you want an to put a truck engine in a Cadillac? That's what you would be doing. Go back to your FORD truck on your farm shoveling manure and leave the civilized automobiles to people with brains. Anyone who says any Ford truck is civilized, you can go with him. Might I remind you that the Excursion Limited has leaf spring front suspension.
    new ford truck was much more civilized than the last gen escalade. This is no bs.

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