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Cadillac News, Concepts, Future Models, Rumors and more Discussion, Car and Driver V3 prediction in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by RaVeNous BS Terrible by what definition. It doesn't break. It holds a lot of power over stock ...
  1. #31
    stl_ls1gto is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    BS

    Terrible by what definition. It doesn't break. It holds a lot of power over stock - look at the RWHP that it holds with pretty good reliability. It certainly hasn't hurt the performance of the V in a straight line or on the track.

    Certainly an updated, multispeed, fancy clutchy german like transmission would add some performance, feel, and upscale attitude but lets remember two things:

    1) those fancy transmissions in BMW, GTR, BENZ, AUDI have had some major issues. I have read a slew of issues. They are strong and hold a lot of power, but they are expensive to put in the car, and expensive to fix when they go bad, particularly when connected to the fancy AWD systems. I'm not saying they aren't better than our 6190e, and a variety of ways, but lets not kid ourselves that there are not trade offs.

    2) I happen to like the way the 6190e drives. Its smooth and I dont feel the shifts. I'm pretty sure thats the whole point. Its a cadillac in it heart, made for smooth crusing, comfy ride etc. I imagine this transmission was selected and tuned to fit that mold. If I wanted quick jarring shifts, throwing me back in my seat, and 9 shifts to get to 100, I would have purchased a different car, or simply gone with the manual. I would have been perfectly happy with the manual which alse shifts VERY smooth. People are so worried about shift speed, and I'm not saying it isn't important, but simply having .00002 second shifts is only one part of many factors in how the car accelerates, and the V wasn't and isn't presently a slouch in 0-60 or 1/4 mile acceleration.

    3) The new S8 still uses an "outdated" slushy traditional trasmission I believe, and take a gander at the power its putting down..... my guess is, they also wanted to avoid complicated, stiff shifting sport like driving in their flag ship luxury car, and geared it towards comfort. In a larger sport sedan, I don't get the desire to make the car shift like a sports car - its not a sports car. Benz has a really good sweet spot in terms of sporty vs. comfort and sometimes goes a bit too sporty because of it in my opinion, and some of the review reflect this. It all depends on what you want out of the car. I don't think most Caddy owners want their sadan, wagon, or coupe to shift like a GTR....that just my opinion.
    No, the S8 uses the same ZF 8 speed auto which is why it is much better than the stupid automated single clutch manual trans audi uses in the S6 and S7. Luckily they wised up and put the 8 speed auto in the RS7. They need to either put the ZF 8 speed in the S6/S7 or a dual clutch.

    Hey, I agree with you - I chose the manual because it is so good and much better than the 6l90e in this car. I do like the 6l80e in my 6.2L
    Sierra though....not for a performance car though. Any new trans is going to be expensive to replace, and GM has its share of problems with this just like every other manufacture. It is not just about ultimate shift speed, it is about the quality of the shift under load and the ability to skip gears on downshift as well. How the trans responds to paddle requests....alot more than just the shift speed.

  2. #32
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    ^^^The manual "better" in THIS car, is a matter of opinion^^^^ as multiple threads have proven!

    Get the manual if you want to be "better" and slower :P

    (truth the manual is quite great, and I would have taken either transmission - it wasn't the main factor in my trim choice when I was looking as they both have +/-)

    Yes the ZF is a mega-speed fancy set up, my point was, that is still has a coverter and a traditional set up, not a double clutch wana-be manual automatic...if I remember correctly as it was one thing it was getting ripped on about. I just remember reading the magazine review where it had put the S8 up against I believe a BMW alpina and whopped it, fancy transmission and all. My point was also that this 8-speed probably shifts fast but smooth and isn't designed too feel like a rip shifting sports car. I have no idea if that is true. I am for SURE looking forward to seeing what the ZF 8 speed can do in the SRT392 and upcoming hellcat - those cars might be monsters.

    I just never get why people thing the V auto is so crappy. In sport mode I think it feels and sounds quite good and fits the car. Its 10x better than the NAG in my two previous SRT8 and that transmission was good and got ripped on for the same reasons.

  3. #33
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    I just remember reading the magazine review where it had put the S8 up against I believe a BMW alpina and whopped it, fancy transmission and all.
    I put a brand new Alpina B7 in its place with my MANUAL V wagon. It wasn't particularly close, either. I'm sure he was wondering why his brand new, still with paper temp tags on it, $130k Ultimate Driving Machine was being left behind by a Cadillac station wagon.

  4. #34
    jsstag is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    My disappointment is in the lack of a coupe.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsstag View Post
    My disappointment is in the lack of a coupe.
    Be patient. It will be there. Just not the first year or two. No big deal.

  6. #36
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
    I put a brand new Alpina B7 in its place with my MANUAL V wagon. It wasn't particularly close, either. I'm sure he was wondering why his brand new, still with paper temp tags on it, $130k Ultimate Driving Machine was being left behind by a Cadillac station wagon.
    Um I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not true for the 2014-2015 models. They both destroy the V2. But you could have 3 nearly new V2 for the price of just one of these monster sedan! I know what I'd pick!

    I think the 2014 S8 dynoed at almost 600RWHP/TQ and with AWD put down 3.2 0-60. That is freaking insane. The V2 would look like a prius launching next to that.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post

    Um I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not true for the 2014-2015 models. They both destroy the V2. But you could have 3 nearly new V2 for the price of just one of these monster sedan! I know what I'd pick!

    I think the 2014 S8 dynoed at almost 600RWHP/TQ and with AWD put down 3.2 0-60. That is freaking insane. The V2 would look like a prius launching next to that.
    Not all Vs are the same. This forum boasts the fastest MODIFIED luxury cars in the world. Not the fastest stock luxury cars in the world.

    Ive managed a 3.2 with my M6 coupe.

    ----------

    It can be done.

  8. #38
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    NO MANUAL = I'm out... I prefer a manual for my sports sedans and that is that.
    Tro Budden likes this.

  9. #39
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by CavemanB52 View Post
    Not all Vs are the same. This forum boasts the fastest MODIFIED luxury cars in the world. Not the fastest stock luxury cars in the world.

    Ive managed a 3.2 with my M6 coupe.

    ----------

    It can be done.
    I'm not talking about a modified car. I'm talking about a review by car and driver or one of the big three. Online. They also did a dyno because the stock listed hp was way too low.

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...7/viewall.html

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...25493953834574
    550-575 HP on dyno 3.5 0-60

    http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...anamera-turbo/
    The RS7 was the 3.2 0-60 (my bad).

    I'm not knocking the V2. I have one, but the 2014 on up super sedans are 1 step ahead...again...just not as big of a step. If you start talking mods, then the argument is void.

  10. #40
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    Um I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not true for the 2014-2015 models. They both destroy the V2. But you could have 3 nearly new V2 for the price of just one of these monster sedan! I know what I'd pick!
    There is only one Alpina B7 being offered on BMW's web site, and it's the 2013-up model with 540 HP. The Alpina B7 weighs 5050 lbs, so it's definitely not faster than any stock V. If there's another Alpina B7 model coming, it's not being sold yet. Even BMW says the B7's 0-60 is only 4.3 seconds, and even that is optimistic I think. And this all goes for the B7 currently being sold by BMW. If there's a faster version, it's not being sold in the US.

    The S8 is a different story. But with AWD, even the current V2 would be able to rip off much quicker 0-60 times, it's just the difference between AWD and RWD.

    EDIT - looking at the times they got for the S8, they said: "the S8 devoured 60 in 3.5 seconds and the quarter mile in 11.8 at 118.3 mph" Which as far as I can tell is almost exactly what an AWD CTS-V would be getting. Good traction begets lower ETs. Stock CTS-Vs routinely hit 118 MPH trap speeds, and in a lot of cases 119, so actually on a freeway run where traction isn't a factor, it doesn't look like an S8 wouldn't be able to outrun a stock CTS-V either. Yeah it would be neck and neck, but the S8 certainly wouldn't be "destroying" the V.

    This is the problem with using 0-60 times as a measurement of performance, it's only indicative of how much traction you have off the line.

    EDIT 2 - Sorry I keep editing my post, but I found a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. Watch this video, and check out the 1:22 mark. The Panamera seemingly was the vastly faster car, ripping off the line and leaving the other two behind. But look at the trap speeds - the CTS-V was a full 2 MPH faster than the Panamera, which means that despite the fact that the Panamera crossed the line first, the CTS-V was faster and would have passed the Panamera in another 2 or 3 seconds. From a 65 MPH roll, the CTS-V would have immediately started pulling on the Panamera.

    thebigjimsho likes this.

  11. #41
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    The Panamera and S8 would beat the CTS-V Ring time.....

    But not by much, as does the new M5, but not by all that much.

  12. #42
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    The Panamera and S8 would beat the CTS-V Ring time.....

    But not by much, as does the new M5, but not by all that much.
    The only Panamera beating a V in anything is the twin turbo $160K version. even in this 1/4 mile video above the Panamera eeks out across the line due to 60ft time and traction. on a prepared track the stock V will win. and you could have two extra Vs for that cost.

  13. #43
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMongo View Post
    Screw the transmission option! Why the hell would they not make the cpe and wagon? I have a 12 coupe and have been waiting on the fence to see where to go when I come off lease in July. If there is no coupe forcasted the decision will be much easier for me, I'M GONE! Not everybody wants a 4 door baby hauler.
    Suddenly I am back to looking at the euro competition. I cannot conceive of the thought processes that drive the decision process at GM. They have the potential to go head to head with the best that europe has to offer and they cant get out of their own way
    Great job GM, NOT!
    HUH??

    Just because it's 4-doors does NOT make it a baby hauler. What an awful, myopic viewpoint. I actually prefer high-performance, 4-door cars to their 2-door counterparts & it has NOTHING to do with hauling a baby around...

  14. #44
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    This sounds like V3 will revert to being a bluehair car, just like the Benz. I hope not.

  15. #45
    CVP33's Avatar
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    Re: Car and Driver V3 prediction

    I thought the Alpina was a tuner car? If so, once tuned my V2 will beat it. As for the other $100k cars mentioned. If 11.8 is the bogie I'm not too worried. I bought my V2 knowing that I'd be adding power so nothing I've seen coming short of the new AWD, twin turbo Porsches for $200k scare me. The new 625hp V3 with everything else GM has in their Z06 and Z28 show cars is going to be a great car, slush box and all. I will be one very happy blue hair when it comes out.

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