I had a conversation....
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Cadillac News, Concepts, Future Models, Rumors and more Discussion, I had a conversation.... in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; with a friend of mine who is an executive at Cadillac. I really don't want to mention the person's title ...
  1. #1
    gohawks63's Avatar
    gohawks63 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    I had a conversation....

    with a friend of mine who is an executive at Cadillac. I really don't want to mention the person's title as I want to protect their identity, but wanted to point out that it's a person I've known for years and not just someone I met at a cocktail party.

    This is what s/he would divulge to me:

    1. There will be an ATS-V - No surprise, but s/he shared some experiences about a ride-along at the Milford proving grounds. The car will be impressive.
    2. The CTS WILL NOT come in a coupe variant. The current CTS coupe is the segment leader but still low volume. The price point that the ATS is in will have more volume for coupes. Any other coupes will be at the upper end (think flagship) end of the model line. There will be a CTS-V (again no surprise), but no coupe.
    3. BMW is a tough competitor, not so much just in model offerings, but in everything they do to retain customers. Dealer experience, pulling ahead leases, loyalty incentives and dealership experience. Once BMW nabs you, they generally do a very good job of retaining their customers. Notice I said "generally", there are always exceptions.
    4. With respect to dealership experience s/he acknowledged that there is a bit of frustration regarding all the success Cadillac has had with new models, only to have that soured by sub-par (my words) dealers. They are working on it (wouldn't divulge what that meant).

    Even said, "wouldn't it be cool if they put an gas engine in an ELR? Not sure if it was a hint. Didn't get a chance to ask about a CTS Wagon, but if they're killing the coupe, I can't see a CTS wagon making it.

    If it turns out to be true that there won't be a V-Coupe, I'd be kinda bummed and glad I picked up mine.

    ----------

    Edit... I forgot to add the most important point.... pricing.

    This individual feels that it may have been too soon to have elevated the pricing to BMW levels. This person doesn't feel yet they Caddy is viewed as synonymous with BMW yet by the buying public. Note that they didn't say the product wasn't comparable, just that people don't yet consider it a BMW alternative.

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    Zhariak is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Hmmm,

    I know your trust that person, but I find it odd, very odd that they would kill the CTS-V Coupe and Wagon. They are two of the most personalized, unique, bad ass vehicles on the road today.

    If it turns out to be true, I won't even know what to say. I'll be happy I got a 13 Coupe, but WTFWTFWTF

  4. #3
    GM-4-LIFE's Avatar
    GM-4-LIFE is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Did your friend say when the V3 would be arriving? That's all I care about. I will take a V3 sedan anyway if it's got huge power, hoping GM goes AWD on the V3 as well.
    Tedboss1 likes this.

  5. #4
    dennych is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhariak View Post
    Hmmm,

    I know your trust that person, but I find it odd, very odd that they would kill the CTS-V Coupe and Wagon. They are two of the most personalized, unique, bad ass vehicles on the road today.

    If it turns out to be true, I won't even know what to say. I'll be happy I got a 13 Coupe, but WTFWTFWTF
    Yeah, but if you take what Barra said today about ensuring good margins, the CTS Wagon and Coupe don't fall into that picture. The V wagon only existed because there was minimal retooling from the base CTS Wagon (Front is V back is CTS Wagon)

    I don't blame GM really, I blame the American public for being badge whores and shunning wagons
    I also agree with this person on the pricing. You need to build more brand prestige. Quite frankly people look at me odd when I tell them I own a Cadillac.
    neuronbob likes this.

  6. #5
    gmfamily is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    I totally understand what this GM exec is getting at. Although I ended up canceling by M5 order, the whole experience with BMW was amazing!! They have been selling luxury cars for decades and it shows. I was happy with the Caddy products prior to the ATS and new CTS era. I am not saying that the new products are not good, because they are. I just don't think Caddy needed to challenge BMW/MBUSA tick for tat. Caddy is the king of American luxury/performance and that was/is good enough for me. The V2 was perfect, it defeated the Germans in performance and came in at a lower price. Caddy stole a page from Vett and it worked. Does anyone care a ZR1 does not have the fit and finish of a 911? To me the V2 set out to be a better car than a M5, and in many ways it was. The V3 is going to try to be a better M5 than a M5…….. and you can't out BMW a BMW. After all the ATS reviews were written, thats what it came down to. The ATS was a lesser clone of the 3 series for about the same price.

  7. #6
    dennych is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfamily View Post
    Does anyone care a ZR1 does not have the fit and finish of a 911?
    I think the majority of luxury consumers do. In fact I'd say for the majority of people in this market it matters more than performance.
    When I compare my brother's 2010 M3 Coupe to my car, I can tell there is just that additional better fit and finish that makes the difference to the luxury consumer.

    I think the new CTS interior has gone a long way towards equalizing that gap. However you can't raise your prices until you build the brand more.

  8. #7
    gmfamily is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by dennych View Post
    I think the majority of luxury consumers do. In fact I'd say for the majority of people in this market it matters more than performance.
    When I compare my brother's 2010 M3 Coupe to my car, I can tell there is just that additional better fit and finish that makes the difference to the luxury consumer.

    I think the new CTS interior has gone a long way towards equalizing that gap. However you can't raise your prices until you build the brand more.
    I have driven the new CTS back to back with a 2014 M5. The M5 interior was worlds better than the CTS. Of course the sticker on the M5 was $115,000, and the CTS was $60 something. They may have closed the gap, but there is still a gap. If they plan to price the V3 anywhere close to the M5…. well I just don't see it working out. I think lots of consumers are willing to except a gap in quality/materials IF the performance(fun factor) is better and its cheaper. The new Z06 is no BMW/Porsche/AMG on the inside, but watch people line up due to the bang for the buck.
    Tedboss1 likes this.

  9. #8
    garfin's Avatar
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    with a friend of mine who is an executive at Cadillac. I really don't want to mention the person's title as I want to protect their identity, but wanted to point out that it's a person I've known for years and not just someone I met at a cocktail party.

    This is what s/he would divulge to me:

    3. BMW is a tough competitor, not so much just in model offerings, but in everything they do to retain customers. Dealer experience, pulling ahead leases, loyalty incentives and dealership experience. Once BMW nabs you, they generally do a very good job of retaining their customers. Notice I said "generally", there are always exceptions.
    4. With respect to dealership experience s/he acknowledged that there is a bit of frustration regarding all the success Cadillac has had with new models, only to have that soured by sub-par (my words) dealers. They are working on it (wouldn't divulge what that meant).
    I've heard these points before. I have 2 friends who are "hooked" into either a BMW lease or a 4 yr. BMW finance program. When the term is up, NOBODY can come close to what BMW does in order to retain their customers. Unless there is a bad experience at the dealer (highly unlikely after so many years), these people will probably be "lifers" at BMW. The key is the simplicity of how BMW transitions their customers from 1 vehicle to the next. The dealer makes it a simple no-brainer, often involving no increase in the monthly payment, or even a smaller one. These customers tend not to care all that much about what the competition offers. They don't cross-shop. Their priority is to have a simple, stress-free process that puts them in a current model at basically the same monthly cost, and they depend on BMW to continue offering a product that is at (or near) the top of their class. 2 weeks ago, one of my friends was faced with making the balloon payment at the end of a 4 yr. 0.9% financing deal on a 2010 328i x-drive. Rather than shell out the payment, she opted for a new lease on a 2014 320i x-drive. Her comments were that the new 320 actually feels "peppier", but the infotainment/nav system is too complicated! Oh... and since the winter wheels and tires from
    the 328 didn't fit the 320, she had to fork over for a new set of winter shoes. No matter - she's a happy camper 'cuz she's in a new car and her monthly payment is lower than before and the transaction was done all in a matter of a couple of hours one morning.

    I've heard more than one GM exec relate the frustration within the corp that is caused by so many (but certainly not all) of their dealers. Usually, the frustration is based on the fact that GM pays big $ to hire the top engineers, designers, marketing people, ad agencies etc. and has one helluva process by which new vehicles are brought to market with fewer deficiencies than the competition - only to have so many customers turned off at the very end of the line by a negative experience (sales or service) at a short-sighted dealership. Apparently, the problem is the franchise laws which precludes GM from stepping in to exercise a greater degree of authority or discipline with respect to the offending dealers.
    Just glad to hear that there maybe there are some people at GM who are addressing this thorny issue.

    The other good news is that by passing along this information, I'd guess that announcements about these new vehicles are most likely just around the corner. It seems that not divulging info about future products has become more of a big deal lately at GM. This person could have to deal with severe consequences if it was known that this information was being passed along to a member of the general public. The GM non-disclosure document is pretty airtight (and scary!). Generally, if info about future products is leaked like this, then the official announcements aren't too far behind.

    Best regards,

    Elie

  10. #9
    RapidRob's Avatar
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by GM-4-LIFE View Post
    Did your friend say when the V3 would be arriving? That's all I care about. I will take a V3 sedan anyway if it's got huge power, hoping GM goes AWD on the V3 as well.
    I believe the latest MT mag said 2015.

  11. #10
    GM-4-LIFE's Avatar
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    You couldn't PAY ME to EVER own a BMW! The interior of my V Coupe is way nicer than ANY BMW I have ever seen. BMW has basic interiors that are just black and very bland. The new ATS and CTS interiors are way nicer than any BMW out there. All BMW interiors look the same and they don't have that nice classy prestigious presence to them when you enter. I will stick with Cadillac as long as I can afford the l lease payments.

  12. #11
    gohawks63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM-4-LIFE
    Did your friend say when the V3 would be arriving? That's all I care about. I will take a V3 sedan anyway if it's got huge power, hoping GM goes AWD on the V3 as well.
    No we didn't get into that and I didn't press too much. I didn't want to create an awkward situation.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GM-4-LIFE
    You couldn't PAY ME to EVER own a BMW! The interior of my V Coupe is way nicer than ANY BMW I have ever seen. BMW has basic interiors that are just black and very bland. The new ATS and CTS interiors are way nicer than any BMW out there. All BMW interiors look the same and they don't have that nice classy prestigious presence to them when you enter. I will stick with Cadillac as long as I can afford the l lease payments.
    Not sure I would agree. It depends in the combos. We have a 2011 X5 with the Oyster interior with the black dash. Very rich looking. My wife had to have that interior otherwise she didn't want the vehicle.

  13. #12
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by GM-4-LIFE View Post
    You couldn't PAY ME to EVER own a BMW! The interior of my V Coupe is way nicer than ANY BMW I have ever seen. BMW has basic interiors that are just black and very bland. The new ATS and CTS interiors are way nicer than any BMW out there. All BMW interiors look the same and they don't have that nice classy prestigious presence to them when you enter. I will stick with Cadillac as long as I can afford the l lease payments.
    Sorry man. We all love our Vs but we must bow to the reality. Cadillac has come a LONG way, they are tantalizingly close, but the interiors for BMW and Acura, which I also have experience with, are simply better put together and of higher quality.

    A perfect example: that loose carpet on the driver's side. I had an early build 2009 V and it was there. I have a 13 V wagon and IT'S STILL THERE. Not even an attempt that I can see to address an obvious oversight in the entire model run of the 2G V.

    How about another example? The piano black center console plastic that scratches if you breathe on it? That would not be acceptable in an Acura or BMW and would not have made it to production.

    The 3G CTS interior is indeed better! But not BMW better.

    As to GoHawks' assertions: no wagon, no care about V3...as much. This is a good thing. What it means is that my unicornian unobtanium wagon will be worth more money in 30 years. If only I could stop driving it......urrrrrrrgh......must.....go....grocery.... .shopping.....during.....snow...storm......urrrrrr rrgh.......

    Seriously. I've already got almost 19k miles on my wagon in only 13 months. Gotta stop driving it.

  14. #13
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    I think we'll see a coupe built on the CTS chassis, but it won't be called CTS and it'll have a unique interior and exterior. Wider and with more presence than the CTS, in the same way that BMW's 4 and 6 relate to the 3 and 5.

    It'll be named Elsomething...

    No way the ELR loses its electric powertrain. (It already has a gas engine...) Without the electric powertrain it's a front-wheel-drive compact coupe and makes no sense whatsoever.

    Cadillac may have some dealers that don't know how luxury sales and service works, but my Cadillac dealer is fantastic.

  15. #14
    GooseDaPlaymaker is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    No disrespect to you gohawks63 or your friend, but I find it VERY hard to believe that Cadillac's racing car model (CTS) will have the most powerful powertrain in its history, but will only come in grocery-store, family-friendly flavor (sedan). I just can't wrap my mind around that, sorry...

  16. #15
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I had a conversation....

    It's not hard to make a race car with a sedan profile. And did you consider that Cadillac may move their racing program to the ATS-V Coupe label?
    Also, everybody knows when you want to go get groceries you use a wagon

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