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High-end Caddys - what should Cadillac do?

5K views 19 replies 12 participants last post by  90Brougham350 
#1 ·
The 2006 DTS is going to replace the current Deville. This probably means more of the same "old Cadillac" school of thought, like FWD, boat-like handling, soft and cushy ride, senior citizens in Florida, etc.

My question is several-fold: Do y'all think the next DTS should be converted to a S-class/7-series fighter, as in RWD, slightly smaller in size, $20k higher in price, and a continuation of the remaking of Cadillac's image as a sport-luxury maker hellbent on taking back its former world-leading luxury title? Or should Cadillac even try to go so high so fast, if at all? The market in that segment would be pretty crowded, as everyone but Acura has a car in that class: S-class, 7-series, A8, LS430, Q45, XJ, Quattroporte, Phaeton... Should Cadillac stick to the current target market for the Deville? Or should they build both cars? FWD DTS at $50k and RWD FTS (or whatever you'd call it) to take on the Germans and Japanese?

Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
I think they are doing the right thing right now as they have made leaps and bounds. Personally I feel that they already have beat the Germans and quality surveys prove that like JD Power.

The focus is Lexus and their "top quality" persona and that will be dealt with I'm sure.

I think the continuing focus will be RWD for more powerful cars. AWD will be more common than ever and the STS will lead the way for Cadillac.
 
#4 ·
well on one hand i feel that they should bring out a 7 series size and performance cadillac but they may not sell as many (the 7 series and a8 people are very loyal).

what i would like to see cadillac do:
build a large car (sdv replacement) and make it rwd or awd with 2 different engines. take the current 4.6L northstar engine and put it in a base deville/dts and make the base rwd with an awd option. make the top of the line deville/dts a rwd with awd option but either drop in the 4.4L s/c engine (from the sts-v) or make a v10 (the better choice in my opinion).
 
#5 ·
I'd like to see the Deville stick to being roomier, cushier, and bigger than an STS and let the customer pick AWD or RWD. Then a M5 kind of car DTS-V with at least the 4.4SC or preferably the XV12 N* I've heard rumors about being put in the upcoming redesign of Escalades. The base would stick to competing with (and would be beating) the Town Car, the V would just lay waste to the high performance big luxury sedans.
 
#6 ·
davesdeville said:
I'd like to see the Deville stick to being roomier, cushier, and bigger than an STS and let the customer pick AWD or RWD. Then a M5 kind of car DTS-V with at least the 4.4SC or preferably the XV12 N* I've heard rumors about being put in the upcoming redesign of Escalades. The base would stick to competing with (and would be beating) the Town Car, the V would just lay waste to the high performance big luxury sedans.

The way I see it the STS would be more the 5 series fighter, and the bigger Deville the 7 series counterpart.
 
#7 ·
We shouldn't have to pay $70k for a sedan, not an SUV or minivan, with a back seat and trunk big enough for four tall adults and their luggage. Everyone but me is getting fatter too. I'll bet GM still uses 95% population measurements from decades ago, when people were shorter and thinner. The car magazines never give a damn about room or they would have to complain about BMW and be struck by lightning.
 
#8 · (Edited)
This will be controversial. I think we can all dream of a DTS one day growing up and being a high dollar 7 Series and S Class fighter, but really, the STS is a good car for this. Continual improvements in quality and feature content should make the STS even more and more appealing to premium luxury car buyers as time passes. Unfortunately, the role of the Deville has been slowly eroded by the Escalade of all things. The Escalade is todays big floaty RWD vehicle in place of the sedans of before, and so the DTS could slowly be phased out and Cadillac could probably evolve just fine. Make no mistake, the DTS right now exists primarily as a Town Car fighter, and I think the Town Car is actually the better of the two as it stands.
 
#9 ·
Playdrv4me said:
This will be controversial. I think we can all dream of a DTS one day growing up and being a high dollar 7 Series and S Class fighter, but really, the STS is a good car for this. Continual improvements in quality and feature content should make the STS even more and more appealing to premium luxury car buyers as time passes. Unfortunately, the role of the Deville has been slowly eroded by the Escalade of all things. The Escalade is todays big floaty RWD vehicle in place of the sedans of before, and so the DTS could slowly be phased out and Cadillac could probably evolve just fine. Make no mistake, the DTS right now exists primarily as a Town Car fighter, and I think the Town Car is actually the better of the two as it stands.
Just give the DTS rear wheel drive and all this changes. The size of the Deville is correct for a 7 series fighter, or S, however I'm betting changing the driveline would help change peoples minds. After pushing Dad's DTS on the highway when new, I'm more than confident it could run with the best of them, or fairly close. I've never been sucked into the seat like that and the engine doesn't seem to lose breath at all. I do recommend driving one before condemming FWD though. (yes, I'm aware FWD is on the way out, it still moves good with it, despite the evolving)
 
#10 ·
I have no problem with FWD, In fact, there are still many positives to it. I just think one of two things needs to happen here to prevent the DTS from falling into an obscure chasm where no one can figure out what its purpose is. Either it needs to be taken SERIOUSLY and turned into a SUPER luxury, ultra powerful sedan set apart from the rest of the Cadillac line (kind of like a baby Maybach) to give it REAL chiseled identity, or it needs to go away altogether. Dont get me wrong, I love the character and soul of your Dad's DTS, and the new redesign makes it even better, but what is key here, is that it needs sufficient identity to set it apart from the STS. An ultra luxury high end conversion with a unique engine configuration would probably do it, although they would have to expect low sales from the get go and produce accordingly to not have a Phaeton on their hands.
 
#11 ·
Rear drive , optional 10+ cylander northstar ,optional AWD..and a hybrid structure of unibody and full frame to cater beatter to limo companys

Aim it right at the Benz S class in all categorys except styleing , make sure everyone knows its a caddy

Keep base price around 65k...limo builder ready models at 50k ....and a "L" model with a factory 6 inch stretch at 75k with every bell and whistle cadillac can throw at it ..

DTS
DTSPC (Professional car)
DTS S-I-X-T-Y
 
#13 ·
Are you saying they need to platform share with the Caprice again? Big mistake. Cadillac needs to distance itself from the rest of GM for the luxury market to take it seriously.
The Zeta platform is a cheapened Sigma platform. Cadillac won't put the DTS on a lesser platform than it's other cars.

GM has already revealed that the next DTS will be RWD/AWD and ride on the Sigma platform around 2008. The recent restyling is merely a short term placeholder.
The only question is whether they will have it compete in the market it exists in now or move up into the upper luxury classes (I'm hoping for a Sixteen-like standard of the world car).
 
#14 ·
Playdrv4me said:
I have no problem with FWD, In fact, there are still many positives to it. I just think one of two things needs to happen here to prevent the DTS from falling into an obscure chasm where no one can figure out what its purpose is. Either it needs to be taken SERIOUSLY and turned into a SUPER luxury, ultra powerful sedan set apart from the rest of the Cadillac line (kind of like a baby Maybach) to give it REAL chiseled identity, or it needs to go away altogether. Dont get me wrong, I love the character and soul of your Dad's DTS, and the new redesign makes it even better, but what is key here, is that it needs sufficient identity to set it apart from the STS. An ultra luxury high end conversion with a unique engine configuration would probably do it, although they would have to expect low sales from the get go and produce accordingly to not have a Phaeton on their hands.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are going RWD, and with more powerful engines it has to be done. I just don't know anymore what to think about the Deville. I used to say keep it traditional and large. Could the STS be the new flagship for sedans? If the DTS wasn't selling well they would have an excuse to kill it. Then again, why would they waste time and money changing the exterior/interion for the '06 model?
 
#16 ·
If building from a Caprice platform means it will be BIG, I'm all for it.

Ralph said:
The way I see it the STS would be more the 5 series fighter, and the bigger Deville the 7 series counterpart.
Of course, but there's no super high performance 7 series that's why I used the comparison. CTS - 3 series, STS - 5 series, DTS - 7 series. DTS-V - class of it's own.
 
#17 ·
Wait a minute here, i thought the Seville was supposed to be the "high class" import fighter in Cadillac's line up. The Deville has always been the car that senior citizens drive (you know, the cars that ALWAYS (for some reason) have their blinkers on;)). That's the Deville's role. I know it sounds kinda bad, but thats just what the deville does. It is the quintessential (big word of the day:histeric:) American Luxary car. Big as a boat and the softest suspension ever.

I know you all think that cadillacs should be more sportyish (STS, CTS) but i mean, the people who buy NEW cadillacs off the lot are well...senior citizens. :thumbsup:And they like their luxary cars boaty and soft. And they like cars with NAMES instead of alphanumeric codes. I mean, if you ask your average person what the XLR is, they probably won't have a clue. But if you ask them about the Deville, Eldorade, Escalade, well thats a different story.

Honestly, i really don't understand why cadillac is trying so hard to get away from their roots. There's nothing to be ashamed about; Cadillac is afterall, "The Standard of the World:D"
 
#18 ·
Make it RWD, and target the current market. I drive a CTS and I love it, and the STS is really nice too, but the Deville is still Cadillac's best seller. They need this car for sales. To compete with the 7 series, would mean a much higher price, and it'll drop in sales. Stick to competing with Lincoln's Town Car. Let the STS compete with the 7 series.

The CTS can compete with the 3 series and the 5. R&T did a comparison on the CTS, the 530i, and some other cars. The CTS took first and cleaned out the competition in everything. The 3 series should be no challenge.
 
#20 ·
I say beat the Germans. We all know that Cadillac quality is back where it should be, but that image has to be projected to the rest of the automotive world, as well as the public. When the fat secretary at the dentist's office tells you Cadillac is better than BMW or Mercedes, you've gotten the message across. When you survey 30 people at the health club and the majority believe Cadillac is superior and they'd rather have one, that's when things change. When "the ultimate driving experience" just isn't as good as "the standard of the world," that's when things happen. Cadillac needs to continue to keep quality high, maybe even make it higher, just make sure people know the days of the 70s and 80s are gone (remember, public perception, not what we all think or know), and that Cadillac is once again a force to be reckoned with, that's what I'm getting at. Look at the 750il. That's a fine automobile. V12, beautiful interior, great performance, great looks (public perception again), and basically a top vehicle. Cadillac: build something that the public and all of us KNOW beats it, and then you've won.

Brian
 
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