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Cadillac News, Concepts, Future Models, Rumors and more Discussion, No new Northstar in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I am shocked to hear this. Caddy moving to high-output V6s? The same move that Acura has been beaten up ...
  1. #16
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    Re: New V8 canceled

    I am shocked to hear this. Caddy moving to high-output V6s? The same move that Acura has been beaten up about for several years?

    As a reference point, I currently own an Acura RL, which is a great, competent luxury car that has been pilloried in the automotive press because it has a 290 hp V6 in a class where V8 is a minimum for admission. The issue I have with the car is that like all Honda VTEC engines, most of the power and torque are produced high up in the power band. As someone who's owned Honda products for years, I'm used to punching the accelerator to get the power I need, but with this particular purchase am really missing that low-end power. As much as I love my RL, I have a wandering eye and have been thinking about moving to the American side, in particular to something with more low-end torque, and preferably with a V8. The styling of the CTS is REALLY hot. It would stink if the only V8 CTS was the CTS-V (which is the variant I'm thinking about buying anyway).

    In any case, as a future Caddy customer, I am a bit taken aback by this news.

  2. #17
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    Re: New V8 canceled

    cool.. do v12 instead

  3. #18
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    No New V8 For Cadillac

    General Motors has canceled plans to build a new advanced double overhead-cam V8 for its luxury cars.

    The move means the future for Cadillac's V8 car engines is unclear.

    In January 2007, GM said it would invest $300 million in its Tonawanda, N.Y., engine plant for the new V8 engine, which was scheduled to start production in 2009 and be used in luxury cars.

    GM Powertrain spokesman Tom Read said Thursday that the project is dead. That engine likely would have replaced Cadillac's long-running Northstar V8, which is scheduled to end production in 2010.

    Cadillac could switch to high-powered V6s in its cars, except for the Corvette-based XLR.

    The new direct-injected V6 in the 2008 CTS develops 304 hp, while the current Northstar V8 makes 275 hp in the 2008 DTS.

    Cadillac spokesman Kevin Smith said, "We've really seen the V-6 become the predominant engine in sales on the (2008) STS because it's so close in power to the V-8."

    He added that the V6 is about 150 to 200 pounds lighter.

    The cancellation of the new V8 comes just days after President Bush signed into law new fuel economy standards that call for a 40 percent fuel economy improvement by 2020. The new standards start phasing in in 2011.

    The Tonawanda plant still gets at least one new engine, an all-new 4.5-liter diesel V8 engine that starts production in 2010. That engine, GM said earlier, will be used in light pickups and SUVs.

  4. #19
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    Re: No New V8 For Cadillac

    The new direct-injected V6 in the 2008 CTS develops 304 hp, while the current Northstar V8 makes 275 hp in the 2008 DTS.
    That's a loaded comparison to justify the V6.

    2008 STS stats:

    Direct injection V6: 302 hp at 6,300 rpm and 252 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm
    Northstar V8 VVT: 320 hp at 6,400 rpm and 315 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm


    The key thing missing from these arguments/articles is torque, how much and where.
    The larger displacement V8 engine makes a lot of torque at the low-mid range which is what you need to drag a big heavy car around.
    Also, applying the same technology in the V6 to the V8 would result in more power in the V8.
    With like for like technology the larger displacement V8 would always make more power.

    Frankly I'm gutted by this news. As lovely as the new CTS seems to be, the lack of a V8 engine puts me off as I like the pull of a torquey engine and the sound.
    I was really looking forward to a successor to the wonderful Northstar.

    This is also bad news for Cadillac as a prestige brand, while most people would obviously buy the cheaper V6 having a flagship V8 model to compare to the Germans is what gets people into showrooms in the first place. With BMW, Audi and Mercedes bringing out more and more V8 engined saloons there is no excuse for Cadillac not to be able to do so.

  5. #20
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    GM Cancels the Cadillac V8

    Has anyone else read this?

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-cance...-cadillac.html

    General Motors has announced that it has canceled its plans to build a new advanced double overhead-cam V8 for its luxury cars. The cancellation leaves the future of V8-powered Cadillacs — other than the XLR sports car — up in the air.
    What other good decent sized back seat sedans are left that have V8's? I will NOT have a mini van when I have a family and if I can avoid getting an SUV or XUV or Compact SUV, I will.

  6. #21
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    Re: New V8 canceled

    V6 the way to go. Want more power, torque? Throw in a charger or two under the hood. That's much less development costs than a brand new big displacement engine that would also have to be fuel efficient to modern standards. You can have a low pressure turbo for lag-free moderate boost in lows and mids. For high speed applications a high pressure turbo will do wonders. And you can have two combined for a smooth boost in all rev ranges. Or marry a high pressure turbo with a supercharger for even smoother and fuel efficient solution, like VW with Borg Warner recently did in their TSI engines. They get up to 200 HP out of 1.4 liters and a torque that many V6's will envy. Porsche also started lately to use variable geometry turbos in their gasoline cars. This tech was mostly available in diesels before and is still expensive due to complicated and delicate design (that's one of the reasons diesel engines are more expensive than gasoline ones). It is a turbo that can act both as a lag free low range booster and high rev booster when needed due to variable geometry.

    Apart from a pleasurable rumble there are only downsides to V8's, like excess weight, complicated packaging and poor fuel economy.

  7. #22
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    Re: GM Cancels the Cadillac V8

    I don't understand their XLR comment at all though, because it too uses the Northstar (which will be discontinued in 2010)... perhaps they meant the CTS-V?







    *EDIT* The thread merge made me repeat myself

  8. #23
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    Re: No New V8 For Cadillac

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrockcamaro@mac.c View Post
    Frankly I'm gutted by this news. As lovely as the new CTS seems to be, the lack of a V8 engine puts me off as I like the pull of a torquey engine and the sound.
    The 2009 CTS-V will have enough V8 satisfy anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrockcamaro
    I was really looking forward to a successor to the wonderful Northstar.
    This is also bad news for Cadillac as a prestige brand, while most people would obviously buy the cheaper V6 having a flagship V8 model to compare to the Germans is what gets people into showrooms in the first place. With BMW, Audi and Mercedes bringing out more and more V8 engined saloons there is no excuse for Cadillac not to be able to do so.
    You're being a bit of an alarmist.

    The V6 is pushing 300+hp naturally aspirated, which is more power than the original Northstar in a much lighter engine. That is at 3.6L (the engine was designed to go to 4.0L). Why would you need a V8 if a V6 does the same job but better?

    Cadillac is becoming the company BMW used to be. This is a good thing.

  9. #24
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    Re: No New V8 For Cadillac

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh View Post
    ... Why would you need a V8 if a V6 does the same job but better?..
    Because the sound of a V8 is sooo much better than a V6.

  10. #25
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    Re: New V8 canceled

    Isn't a V8 smoother and quieter than a V6? Luxury buyers want powerful, smooth and quiet...
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  11. #26
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    Re: No new Northstar

    The future of GM V8's is the LS in my opinion, there will be all sorts from N/A to supercharged and horsepower will be the difference between them, sort of what Nissan/Infiniti has done with the VQ after all who really knows the difference between DOHC and OHV, horsepower numbers are what sells. We have to begin thinking of GM as one car company, not different divisions, how many V8's does Mercedes have? and BMW? the S/C LS engines will be the performance units, and the N/A units will power everything else, I think a 6.2 LS3 with say 410 N/A horsepower, easily achievable, would be a much better choice on the STS than a 320 HP Northstar in the end it is easier to sell 410 HP than 32 valves and DOHC. An LS3 with those characteristics can idle smoothly, and would trump the current 370 hp BMW 5.0 and the Mercedes 5.5 385 HP, units on the the 5, 6 and 7 series and the e, cls, cl, sl, and s class.
    Strap an S/C on that LS3 like the upcoming CTS V and you can adjust horsepower to fit the CTS, STS, XLR and whatever is coming up in the V Series. No body will question the LS being on the Pontiac G8, if your S/C LS in cranking 500+ horsepower. It works and it saves the General some big bucks.

  12. #27
    jey
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    Re: GM Cancels the Cadillac V8

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh View Post
    I don't understand their XLR comment at all though, because it too uses the Northstar (which will be discontinued in 2010)... perhaps they meant the CTS-V?
    Perhaps we're all assuming the XLR will get the V8s that the Corvette gets since it's the same platform.

  13. #28
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    Re: New V8 canceled

    I do have to say, I really loved my 1995 Fleetwood Brougham - which came with the LT1. So maybe a refined LS engine wouldn't be so bad...
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  14. #29
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    Re: No new Northstar

    That's totally surprise for me .I think it's an end of a remarkable area .Hope the new upcoming engine to surpass the Northstar in regards to maintenance,performance wise .

  15. #30
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    Re: No new Northstar

    Hmmm...you make a good point. However one would think that they (Cadillac) needs to have something other than a pushrod motor in their cars. Have they had success with the CTS-V? Yes. Could it carry over to the other applications? We would have to wait and see if they go that route. I think one of their first steps to developing motors with more power without increasing the number of cylinders would be the use of more forced induction (i.e. 3.6DI twin turbo). They could easily achieve 450+ HP without the weight of a V8 and the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder... Not saying we would like them to go that direction. But I think we have to look at that as being an option. Cadillac's have always had big V8's. Hate to see that change anytime soon!

    Dr. Design
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthCTSVJJL View Post
    The future of GM V8's is the LS in my opinion, there will be all sorts from N/A to supercharged and horsepower will be the difference between them, sort of what Nissan/Infiniti has done with the VQ after all who really knows the difference between DOHC and OHV, horsepower numbers are what sells. We have to begin thinking of GM as one car company, not different divisions, how many V8's does Mercedes have? and BMW? the S/C LS engines will be the performance units, and the N/A units will power everything else, I think a 6.2 LS3 with say 410 N/A horsepower, easily achievable, would be a much better choice on the STS than a 320 HP Northstar in the end it is easier to sell 410 HP than 32 valves and DOHC. An LS3 with those characteristics can idle smoothly, and would trump the current 370 hp BMW 5.0 and the Mercedes 5.5 385 HP, units on the the 5, 6 and 7 series and the e, cls, cl, sl, and s class.
    Strap an S/C on that LS3 like the upcoming CTS V and you can adjust horsepower to fit the CTS, STS, XLR and whatever is coming up in the V Series. No body will question the LS being on the Pontiac G8, if your S/C LS in cranking 500+ horsepower. It works and it saves the General some big bucks.

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