Time to rant, screw big oil and/or their retailers

[ewill3rd]

Seems like the messiah was supposed to fix this mess and he's been working hard to... oh wait he hasn't done anything but make it all worse.
Couldn't even get the olympics to come to his "home town".
My hero.

I believe if you listen to his cheerleading squad they want to raise the price of Gas by an additional dollar or two to raise revenues for their welfare programs and also to force people to take mass transit. After you sell your car and they tax us all into oblivion I am sure they will decide what kind of gas miser you can buy, or one will be provided for you.

I might be dating myself here but I remember when we couldn't fit $10 worth of gas in our car and $5 usually meant we were going on a long drive!

[CIWS]

It's not up to our leadership to fix this mess, it's up to us. The leadership is corrupt and owned by big business (all not just oil).

onebadcad - Are you pissed enough yet to decide to start looking for alternatives to fossil fuel ? I'm not talking buying a tree hugging Prius, I'm talking getting our country and industry seriously looking at viable alternatives so that we can stop being owned by other countries who have the oil we cannot do without right now.
Every time I bring this subject up no one wants to do what's needed. It's just too easy to keep the blinders on and continue down the same road as it only gets worse. I'm sick and tired of seeing my country with a knife to its throat when we posses the ability to get beyond it.

[Stingroo]

If I may ask, what would you suggest CIWS? No flame intent here, I'm just curious.

[hardrockcamaro@mac.c]

RE The Alaskan Nature Reserve, there are estimated to be between 5 and 16 billion gallons there (that's oil and gas equivalent combined). These estimates are based on the surrounding area and the assumption that the same is available within the Alaskan Reserve. The USA consumes over 20 million barrels per day. So if we decide to be optimistic and go with the 16 billion barrel figure that means the Alaskan Reserve contains enough crude to keep the USA going for 800 days (less than 2 years and 3 months). So what will you do after that?

Digging oil out of the ground is not sustainable. I don't mean that in a tree hugging way, I'm being practical. There is a finite amount of it in the ground. It does not fill up again while you're not looking. One day it *will* run out. Sheer common sense tells us that. Any when that happens the consequences are a lot more serious than no fuel to put in your car. Where will you get food? there won't be any in the supermarket. The entire worlds economy and out way of life (down to our food) depends on oil.

We *have* to find another solution.

The problem at the moment is that the various forms of renewable energy (be it tidal, wind, solar, whatever) are so expensive that no-one wants to pay for them. There are dangers associated with nuclear energy (and the long term storage of the spent fuel) so it's not easy.

And given the choice, I'd rather drive a slow electric vehicle of some sort than have no transportation whatsoever. While I love my V8, what I really love is the ability to get around, to go where I want to go, to travel.

Even if you ignore climate change stuff or decide you don't agree with it or whatever, the bottom line is that the oil will run out one day. And it won't be in 500 years. How soon I don't know, I suspect governments have a pretty good idea, but if we make it another 100 years with our current consumption I would be very surprised.

[dkozloski]

$0.14/gal(fourteen cents/gal) for regular. Spring of 1958 in Seattle, Washington.

[orconn]

Most of the world that are aware of the ongoing outcry of the American over the ever increasing cost of petroleum products think American are a bunch of cry babies. "Where do the Americans get off believing they are the only ones who should benefit from inexpensive (middle class) personal transportation?" might well be their position. "Well we were here first" doesn't really cut it with the aspiring middle classes of the second and third world.

Truth be told as a percentage of an average family's income, the cost of oil and gas is lower than many tmes in the past. Is is the problem of the oil and gas industry that the American family now feels that many costly (internet, cable TV, a variety of expensive appliances, not to mention "designer" labeled clothing) are necessities today, whereas in the not too distant past these were rightly considered luxuries. Europeans having come more lately to enjoy the mobility of personal transportation (and also having good public transportation alternatives) seem to have a more realistic out look on solutions to our future energy needs ........ and are not impressed with "I don't give a damn about you, I'm entitled to big car, big house and big opinion of myself" often heard from some U.S. citizens.

[orconn]

Originally Posted by dkozloski

$0.14/gal(fourteen cents/gal) for regular. Spring of 1958 in Seattle, Washington.

I remember $.27 a gallon in Moorestown, N.J. in 1960 and $.11 a gallon at the PX gas station in Chitose, Hokkaido, Japan in 1970 (it was $2.85 a gallon at local economy (Japan) gas stations at the same time). And the average American family of four had an income of $4700.00 per year ( new well equipped Chevy Impala was around $3400.00 and a Cadillac De Ville about $6000.00, the average house in the U.S. was about 1400 square feet and cost around $14,000. It helps to put things in perspective! No family outlay for internet, movie rentals, long distance telephone calls and airplane travel were really luxuries of the well to do as were designer labels and eating out for dinner.

[onebadcad]

Thanks to all who responded, good reads for the most part.
My original point, if you read it again, was not an attempt to say gas at the pump is high, it was to bring light to the fact that Big Oil and it distributors seem to be gouging us at the pump, as it is not consistent, due to they charge what they think they can get away with, regardless of the current price of crude---disproportionate margins was my angst. I am a firm supporter of capital markets, but not blatant collusion. Regarding the poasts of those with the means should not voice opinions is socialism, just because you have something does not mean anyone should take it unfairly, in this case a monopolistic industry, and in most examples, a selfish and ineffective government. I am not a scholar in the Oil Markets, thus do not fully understand the impact of a few greedy Wall Street manipulators, but am still not in belief that they alone dictate the price at the pump. Alternative fuels are great, for a nation with our consumption this should have been pursued decades ago, it is very late in the game, only one viable solution to fix our dependency and that is to drill and then drill some more. We will see brutal prices in the near future as inflation comes, and the value of the dollar will fall, and U.S. securities will not be coveted until the yields offered are three times higher than today, which is catastophic, as the first line item in any budget is debt service, which has been grossly calculated by the current Administration, deliberately, as they will all be long gone before we start paying the real price for the current economic woes.
Back on topic, pricing on gasoline is unregulated, you pay what you are told, and regardless of how much money you have, it is very wrong, unless of course you are a fan of Robin Hood and his merry crooks,,,

I'm out, enjoy your Sunday, go 'Fins!!!!, and of course #24!!!

[onebadcad]

,,, and to the champions of Mass Transit, works great when you have the infrastructure in place, when you do not you are asked to operate in a system with gross deficiencies for which there is no remedy, other than money, which cannot be had. NYC has a great model, but at what cost, and how long before it hit efficiencies that were satisfactory. I know of no Mass Transit Systems that generates a profit, enlighten me, and given the fact some believe the arguement is savings vs. the environment, this is not an acceptable alternative.

Chose not to pursue the environment arguements, as that topic deserves its own forum.

[onebadcad]

Originally Posted by ewill3rd

Seems like the messiah was supposed to fix this mess and he's been working hard to... oh wait he hasn't done anything but make it all worse.
Couldn't even get the olympics to come to his "home town".
My hero.

I believe if you listen to his cheerleading squad they want to raise the price of Gas by an additional dollar or two to raise revenues for their welfare programs and also to force people to take mass transit. After you sell your car and they tax us all into oblivion I am sure they will decide what kind of gas miser you can buy, or one will be provided for you.

I might be dating myself here but I remember when we couldn't fit $10 worth of gas in our car and $5 usually meant we were going on a long drive!

Home Run, actually Grand Slam!!!

[onebadcad]

Originally Posted by gary88

We have it easy compared to Europe.

I am not picking on you, many make this arguement. We, as Americans, should not compare ourself to others, if we do, we lower our standards and beliefs to what their systems have eroded into (Look at the tax rates for Britain, France and Germany)---a kin to your children telling you that seven 'C's on a report card is good as they know one kid in the class that received all 'D's. You have to ask yourself a question:

1) Do I work for the betterment of government?

OR

2) Does government work for the betterment of 'all' in society?

Ultimately, you should work for yourself and your family, there should be rewards for sacrifice and hard work, you should not contribute 60% of your earnings into Government's coffers.

[submariner409]

It's all relative..........I can remember riding around with my maternal grandmother and great grandmother, just after WW-II, in a 1938 Dodge 6 and Bud (grandmother) pulling into a filling station for "a dollar's worth" which was gas for the week. The grease monkey checked the oil, washed the windshield, and checked the tires. Said "Thank you, Ma'am." In the 1960's - Navy Exchange gas station in New London, Ct., gas was .21 a gallon for 96 octane - you could get Sunoco at 110 (?) from the "mix it yourself" pump. We paid .14 a gallon for (rationed) Navy gas in Naples, Italy in '68. In '75, Texaco was .37 a gallon in SC, Charleston. I could actually afford to run a 17' boat with a 115 hp Johnson V-4 outboard. Right now marine 89 octane is $3 at a local marina and Shell 87 is $2.55 on the highway (and the price goes up every day with rising oil prices).

Go to some info website and pull the annual inflation figures for the last 50 years. Begin at 1960 with .21 a gallon and inflate that by each year's rate. You won't believe it.

Go to http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/marketsdata.html for hourly tracking of markets and commodity prices. Hover over the "crude oil" line and open the graph, click to expand the coverage. You'll puke.

[hardrockcamaro@mac.c]

Hmm...

I find it interesting that while many people in the US scream in fear of socialism when governments involve themselves in any industry, many of the same people want the government to interfere with gas pricing which surely goes against the ways of capitalism? At the end of the day there are several gas companies from various countries all offering fuel for sale and the market (ie the demand) is setting the price. When demand drops the cost of fuel drops. As developing economies mature they have the same thirst for fuel that we do. There is not enough to go around, hence the price goes up. You should be happy the US government are not involved in your pricing. The reason that fuel costs up to 3 times as much in Europe is due to taxation designed to reduce our dependence (and waste). But in both Europe and the USA you are free to buy whichever car you choose and buy as much fuel as you like and go wherever you want. If you decide to drive a lot and drive a car with lousy gas mileage you have no right to demand change. I choose to drive a V8 Caddy in spite of paying $7 per gallon. I don't like it but I choose to so it. If I don't like the gas bills the solution is to either keep my car and make fewer pointless trips or keep making those trips and drive a more fuel efficient car. I can't have my cake and eat it.

While I love the US and travel there as often as I can as for lowering yourself to European standards, pull your head out of your arse. Have you ever lived in Europe???
The standard of living and lifespan of the US does not compare as favourably as you think to that of many European countries. Every country and system in the world has its pro's and con's, the US is no different (and neither is Europe).

I have no intention of turning this into a slanging match about the US vs the world no matter how much you might like that so that's the last I'm going to say on that topic.


As for pump prices vs the cost of a barrel of oil, they do rise roughly with each other, there are a few minor variables which mean it's not an exact match but it's near enough.

You had record prices when it was $100 per barrel, and as economies around the world recover and the growth in the Far East continues, the cost of a barrel will remain north of $100 with subsequent knock on effects at the pump.

The days of cheap gas are over. Forever.

Drilling in the US is not going to solve the problem. It will reduce your dependence on foreign oil for a while but only for a few short years. Then what?

You (well, all of us actually) need to reduce dependence on oil. Period. Not just foreign oil.

With no public transport to speak of and with a large population living in the suburbs many many miles from their place of work, what are you going to do when the oil gets to be 3 or 4 times the price it is today? Especially when you've already used what oil is under the ground on US soil?

Forward planning is needed, not just in the USA but all over the world, however the US needs to act more urgently than most due to your geography and lack of infrastructure...

I don't mean to be alarmist, but there needs to be some serious positive change over the next 100 years, otherwise all I can say is: I'm glad I won't be alive to see the consequences if we don't...

[gary88]

Well said

[ga_etc]

Originally Posted by gary88

Well said

+1. We are spoiled and no one wants to admit it. We drive our large, powerful, comfortable Cadillacs because that's what we want, not because we need them. If we bought only the transportation that we needed we would all be driving Geo Metros. Unfortunately the actions of society as a whole could be categorized as gluttonous and everyone just kind of seems to be ok with that. Large steps need to be taken in the direction of cleaner, renewable sources of energy. It is going to take years of hard work but it is very attainable.