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Cadillac Forums: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-08, 04:23 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

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Heh, what year did that start?
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-08, 04:31 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

I thought the 1990 Town Car would have the softest, floatiest ride being that it was basically a 1989 with a new shell.. Am I wrong to think that? What is the SOFTEST riding Town Car? And how does it mask bumps compared to a late 90s Fleetwood Brougham or, say, Lexus LS430?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 07:38 AM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

1990 has a different suspension and a whole different front end then '91+.... and, it has the 302 (5.0) instead of the 4.6.... which alone has it's own little cult following.... personally I prefer the 4.6/4R70W combo... but thats just me... oh, plus 1990 has full metal bumpers front and rear, '91+ they went to plastic bumper covers, look the same tho.

But, I am not sure if 1990 ride smoother per say, I will say if you want THE most softest-riding and most plush seats Lincoln since anything since the 70's, then you would want a '93-'94 Signature/Cartier, the '90-'94 suspension rides the smoothest and those seats are the best there was.

also, on '90-'94 the rear doors, the glass was framed out and had the smaller window within the door, which I think sorta looks odd because the Town Car already has the opra window.... but... the window goes down all the way, much like '94-'99 DeVille, I think that is really cool. '95-'97, like mine, is one-piece glass in the rear window, IMO it looks a whole lot better, more sleek, to go along with the sleeker '95-'97 style, but, the window, like most cars, only goes down about 2/3 the way due to clearance issues.

Based on what I read about the Town Cars, and what I remember riding in the '90-'94 style.... I'm willing to bet that a '90-'94 Town Car will ride smoother then any 90's Cadillac or Lexus.... '95-'97? I dunno.... I know any factory 90's era Fleetwood Brougham will ride smoother then my car.... but onto of the suspension being changed a bit in '95, my car has the handling package, so it isn't a real fair comparison.

Basically, if you want the flat out most overly soft riding and plushest Town Car, but something modern (not the 70's) then really look at '93/'94 Signature/Cartier... I am sure '90-'93 are just as good, I just hear people talking about those two years as being the most plush.... plus in '93 IIRC the grille was changed to not be AS bad as it was.

But, if you want a sleeker package that, IMO looks a whole lot better inside and out, as well as has more options and toys, then '95-'97 is the way to go... for me, between the, IMO very awesome interior, as well as the vastly improved front end, jewel-style headlights and neat grille... that alone was enough to get me into the newer era.

Dunno why, maybe because of the more bold look, but despite being the same car.... '90-'94 style seems to have more of the "mafia" thing going for it, while the '95-'97 is much sleeker and modern looking... still, either of them, especially black, is pretty much instant access into the Mafia anyway... I hear the comments from time to time.

Like any car, they have their quirks.... but these old Panther cars seem to have problems that don't require either a ton of money or the need to go to the dealer... maybe time consuming, but all doable.

-'90 with the 5.0 has the AOD trans and is known for going thru TV bushings, which, if not taken care of soon, will trash the trans.
-'91-'95 4.6 is known for valve steam seals going bad... car will still run, and really for quite a long time, it'll just burn oil, blue smoke and all.
'96/'97 4.6 had the cracking intake manifold, but improved valve steam seals to address the burning oil problem... hit or miss, most have probably been changed by now (mine was) but either way you can tell as soon as you pop the hood when looking at cars. despite all the bad said about the plastic intake manifold, is IS supposed to improve both performance and MPG over the older design.

Then of course pretty much across the board on the 90's TC... the rear air springs everyone loves to complain about... not all that much money nor very hard. Blend Door Acutators and heater cores both like to go out... the BDA is only about $70 and the heater core (use OEM!!!!!!!!!!!!) is about $50, but both require the dash to pretty much come out. Now that I've did it 3 times, it's not THAT bad, but really is imtinidating at first.... it goes back to those not expensive nor overly hard, but just time consuming... Ford wants about $1200 to replace the $70 BDA.

Also, for some reason these cars, like all Lincolns like to eat thru door hing pins and bushings... if a door is sagging, thats why.... Ford only sells the whole hinge, as it's really not serviceable... but to replace the $100 hinge, guess what you need to do? Remove the whole dash Even then I still coudln't find the bolt inside.... soultion? buy a dremel, support the door, cut the pin in half, hammer out the 2 pieces and get the $8 HELP pin and bushing kit for a full size Bronce (forgot the p/n off hand) it goes right in, pin is slightly long but no biggie... perfect match.

Also, the power windows, Ford uses nylon plugs between the regulator gear and the motor shaft, these get trashed and then the window stops working and the motor still turns... multiple fixes for it, again, not too bad, worst part is, if it's the first time, you gotta drill out the rivets in the door, which isn't all that bad. I did all mine 3 times before I got a soultion that works, and will keep working.

As for the front end, the cars like to eat thru all front end parts, especially ball joints and sway bar links, next up would be idler arm, then tie-rods/pitman arm. Also, front rotors will warp, but '98+ brakes which have dual piston caliper instead of single, and 12" rotors instead of 10" not only put an end to warper rotors, but give the car one heck of a boost in stopping power. This swap is next on my list, but until the Isuzu is running, I really don't want to disable the car.

Thats pretty much it... may sound like a lot, but compared to engine replacements or expensive suspension systems or paying over $100/hr on labor because you can't even work on your own car... it's not too bad. Ask me how I know about all those common problems Thats what put a sour taste of the car in my mouth for a while, ALL that, and then some, was wrong/broke on my car when I bought it.... previous owner(s) just let it all stock pile, then must have traded it in.

I can fix mechanical stuff tho, the biggest thing was, the car didn't (and dosen't) have a spec of rust on the underbody, it all looks new... coming from NY, that alone speaks more then words alone can describe. Also, there was no body damage, not even a door ding on the whole car... which, was impressive... and on top of that, with the exception of only 2 or 3 very small areas, there is no blemishes on the paint... interior... with the exception of some normal Lincoln wear on the driver seat, looks new...

And, looking back, yeah it stinks having to do all that work, but first, it wasn't a whole lot of money, but really... I know it is done, and done right, with the best quality parts avalible. What that means is, now with the car having 110k miles (most those repairs were done before 100k) and pretty much all the not only wear items, but common problem areas on these cars has now been addressed, hopefully my car has many more years and plenty of miles ahead of it until it needs something major... like I said, only exception is the brakes, which, when the Isuzu is running again, the car is getting a total brake-make-over.... then the cosmetic issues will get addressed, then the car retires from constant, non-stop daily driver duty
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 07:57 AM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

Also, something neat to ponder...

'95-'97 front end CAN be swapped onto a '91-'94, and maybe a '90 without too much work... you just need a new bumper (metal bumper support and cover) grille and headlights, and I don't remember if you need the fenders or not, but the hood IS the same... and since the colors really didn't change, find one at a junkyard and you can do it cheap. But, it can be done, which is exactly what these guys did... and IIRC from what I heard, they used the old bumper support, not a new one, which is why the front bumper dosen't fit perfect... The body side mouldings are different, but still blend well, tail lights are different between the two sub generations, but that dosen't matter.



the '90-'94 interior isn't REALLY bad, but compared to the '95-'97. IMO it just isn't as nice. As was mentioned, the low rent Ford steering wheel that our most bare bones F-150 work truck has, really dosen't cut it... BUT it was the last Lincoln to have the throw back interior, the classic 3-window gauges, so yeah, it's cool in that essence, but otherwise IMO the new interior is a whole lot better. '95-'97 digital dash looks cooler IMO, plus the numbers/letters are all in italics, which is neat.

But, thats what I would do if I had a '90-'94 and found good front end parts at a junkyard.... personally that fixed the biggest problem of the car... then, if I was shooting for the smoothest, most plush Town Car, I'd deal with the older interior and just enjoy the ride.

Either way, unless you find an extremly mint, low mileage, or flat out cheap example... really stay away from Executive model, and in fact in the early 90's there was the base "no name" model even below Executive.... not that they are bad, but they are very basic, have nearly no options at all, and most things even standard on most TC (memory seat and digital compass etc...) on my '96, they didn't have, plus a very basic and not as comfortable seat. Thats just me tho... personally too many features and options are not on an Executive to make it not worth while to me, unless like I said there was a car that was just flawless in every way, in colors you really liked and for a good price. Otherwise a Signature or Cartier is the way to go... a full loaded Signature (such as mine) can be optioned basically the same as a Cartier without all the Cartier badging.

And this is the best part about these cars, reguardless of years....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...QQcmdZViewItem

For less then the cost of a brand new Kia Rio (Americas cheapest car) you can get that.... full loaded, top model, mint conditon, low miles.... I mean really, these things are just execlent used car bargins.

I know alot of people don't like the '98-'02 styling... I used to like it alot more, and in a way, still do... it have a more rich and fancy style to it in a way, while '03+ sorta looks like a new Grand Marquis on-coming... in fact my biggest gripe with the '98-'02 style was the lack of hood ornament on the car, but a '90-'97 hood ornamnet can be installed without much work, it looks factory, and completes the look..... thats a really nice example of just how good the bodystyle can look.

Newer, maybe more expensive looking? Yes... but I still like the lines and boldness of my '96 better.... Chad said it perfectly about the '90-'97 TC as well as the W126 and '77-'92 RWD DeVille/Brougham..... all three cars have the long sleek and long look, while the newer models look bloated in comparison... and thats exactly it.

I will say tho, I have nothing agains the '98+ style, and if, by the time I am done with my '96, when ever that may be... if I am really in the mood for basically a newer version of the same exact type of car, then I would definitly consider one... just awesome, awesome used car bargins... but I have a feeling I'd get a used Saturn Sky Redline when they really go down in price before another Town Car... but... really can't beat them for what they are.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 11:50 AM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

Blend door actuators are the everlasting question that eludes Ford. Mine failed on my '07 at 8,000 miles. My '04 had 2 replaced.

Pre '98 TC would warp rotors on a whim. I once had the rotors and pads replaced and after a night driver had the car, were warped again. I actually brought out the other drivers and showed them how to brake without warping, pulsing and planning on how to use your brakes. I had warping problems on my SHO until I got PF carbon metallic pads. So I convinced my boss to get those on the TCs. That definitely helped.

And the air bags. They wore out pretty quickly. But they were cheap to replace if you knew where to get them and did the work yourself. However, Ford has done a great job in improving the bags. My '04 lasted to 218k. Now, the compressor did need to pump them up more often than new, but not much. I still can't believe that Ford sent out every Executive TC with heavy duty springs because of a few limo conversions...
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 01:48 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

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Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
Blend door actuators are the everlasting question that eludes Ford.
My LS lost its blend air doors at 85,000 on an August day. Thats when the V became a daily driver and the LS hit the bricks.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 02:04 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

Ford's quality sucks when it comes to electrics and air conditioning components...
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-08, 03:42 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

Like I have said before: The only Ford I would own is a SuperDuty and maybe a Navi. I have preferred their interiors but the exterior design and the engine performance of they latest models leave a lot to be desired.

I think they HAVE to make the Interceptor as is and also recapture the mid size family car market they lost. The current Taurus/500 isnt the car for it. Its horrible.

Ford Motor Company put to many eggs into the large SUV basket and fuel prices have killed that but the Firestone/Explorer fiasco sent them plummeting into the abyss.

Oh yeah, they should fire every designer on the current Lincoln teams.
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Old 04-28-08, 05:40 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

Another reason why I'd take a 93-94 Town Car over a 90-92 is because in 1993, they changed the HVAC Control so it used buttons and had a digital display of the temperature, instead of the older setup, where they had sliding switches and no digital display of exterior or interior temp. I believe that setup dated back to like 1981, in Lincolns and Mercs together.
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Old 04-28-08, 09:36 PM
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Re: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday

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Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792 View Post
Another reason why I'd take a 93-94 Town Car over a 90-92 is because in 1993, they changed the HVAC Control so it used buttons and had a digital display of the temperature, instead of the older setup, where they had sliding switches and no digital display of exterior or interior temp. I believe that setup dated back to like 1981, in Lincolns and Mercs together.
Yeah, same here, I like the digital too... then in '96 they updated the EATC system to look alot better too.... I think they are interchangeable though, not postive.

the '90-'92 did still have outside temp however, it was added as a selection on the message center.
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