Cadillac vs. BMW at The New York Car Show

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Koooop

Why not just compare the Hyundai Genesis vs. the STS both have 4 doors and an optional V8.

Actually, I haven't checked but I believe that you are correct.

[lusterblade]

*** 2008 *** 2008 *** 2008 *** 2008
***Cadillac ***Buick ***Cadillac ***Buick
***DTS ***Lucerne ***STS ***LaCrosse
***V8 ***CXL V8 ***V8 Luxury ***CXL
***Current ***Current ***Current ***Current
Interior Dimensions
Headroom (Front) ***39.2 *** 39.5 *** 38.7 *** 39.4
Headroom (Row 2) ***38.6 *** 37.6 *** 37.9 *** 37.2

Hiproom (Front) ***56.9 *** 56.7 *** 54.6 *** 55.3
Hiproom (Row 2) ***56.7 *** 57 *** 55.6 *** 54.6

Legroom (Front) ***42.5 *** 42.5 *** 42.6 *** 42.3
Legroom (Row 2) ***41.6 *** 41 *** 38.3 *** 37.6

Shoulder Room (Front) ***60 *** 58 *** 58.6 *** 57.2
Shoulder Room (Row 2) ***59.2 *** 57 *** 57.4 *** 57

Capacity & Volume
Passenger Volume (EPA) ***113 *** 108 *** 102 *** 100
Passenger Volume (MFR) ***115.3 *** 108 *** 102.9 *** 99.4

Cargo Volume (EPA) ***19 *** 17 *** 14 *** 16
Cargo Volume (MFR) ***18.8 *** 17 *** 13.8 *** 16

Identification
EPA Class ***LARGE ***LARGE ***MIDSIZE ***MIDSIZE

Using all these stats, I would consider Tony the winner because you(Katshot) were pointing out the leg/feet room(or lack of), which Tony addressed. Yes, head room and shoulder room are comparable but I don't believe that was the initial point that you were arguing.

Also if you look at Passenger volume and cargo volume, the DTS and Lucerne are similar, as the STS and Lacrosse are similar.

Note: This is all the data I could find regarding interior dimensions.

[Katshot]

I guess there's multiple people that don't get it.
I said that the rear leg room seemed greater on the Lucerne, and that I found that odd since I kind of thought the Lucerne was at least similar in size to the STS. Tony said the Lucerne was comparable to the DTS and that it was bigger in ALL dimensions than the STS. I said that some dimension were bigger, some were not, which I felt made it unrealistic to claim that one was bigger than the other. He then went on to post data that specifically showed that his statement was untrue. Matter of fact, his data showed that when comparing the dimensions listed on the STS page, exactly HALF the dimensions listed for the STS were in fact LARGER than those listed for the Lucerne.
So how do you figure that he's right, and I'm wrong?

[The Tony Show]

Thank you, Lusterblade. This is typical Katshot- he made a ridiculous comparison between the rear legroom in the STS and Lucerne, and when I pointed out the obvious, he changes the discussion to a completely different topic. He's totally incapable of posting something to the extent of "Whoops- I guess the Lucerne is a bigger car, and the STS is closer in size to Lacrosse." Instead he has to pore over the stats until he finds .02" more in some obscure dimension so he can cling to his Internet victory.

The Lucerne is a bigger car than the STS, which is why it has more legroom in the rear. The end.

[The Tony Show]

Originally Posted by Katshot

Tony said the Lucerne was comparable to the DTS and that it was bigger in ALL dimensions

By ALL I was referring to length, trunk volume, etc... I think everyone reading understood that except you, because you take every single word literally. I'm sure there are cars out there with 3mm more pecker room in the rear right seat than the Lucerne, but that doesn't make them a bigger car.

The Miata data I posted shows that it has more front legroom than the Lucerne- does that make the Lucerne smaller than a Miata? Seriously man- I don't know anyone in their right mind who would argue that a Lucerne and an STS are similarly sized.

[JimmyH]

So why again are we discussing rear legroom? If my passengers want more space, they can ride in their own car.

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by Katshot

If you think for a second that nobody cross-shops Cadillac and Buick, you're nuts.

Retiree: "I like the Cadillac CSTXRL. How much?"
Salesman: "$**,*** with the GMS discount I can give you because you are my favoritist customer ever."
Retiree: "Wow. That is really expensive. I don't think I want to pay that much."
Salesman: "Well come look at the Buick we have over here. It's exactly the same size as a Caddy CSTXRL, but much more affordable."
Retiree: "Great! Do they come in Boring White or Champagne-Mocha-Tan?"
Salesman: Of course! In fact, I believe those are the only color Buicks that we stock. "

...if that is what you call "cross-shopping", then you are correct, many people "cross-shop" Buick and Cadillac.

[JimmyH]

Do people cross-dress at Buick?

[The Tony Show]

rofl @ Caleigh

[Katshot]

Here are afew key posts that should shed some light on what's actually been said here:

Originally Posted by The Tony Show

Buick Lucerne = Cadillac DTS. Big, pillowy luxury cars always have more room inside than sport sedans.

Originally Posted by Katshot

If you look at the specs, it's VERY hard to make that statement. The STS is closer to the LaCrosse than the Lucerne in some dimensions, and the DTS is "generally" larger than all of them. There's also a HUGE price difference between the Lucerne and the STS. I'm not insinuating that these two ARE direct competitors, they just happened to be close to each other on the floor, and therefore "seemed" a close comparo.

Originally Posted by The Tony Show

STS / Lucerne

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 41.4 (+3.1)

Shoulder Room 57.4 / 57.0 (+2.6)

3 inches more both leg room and shoulder room in the Lucerne- it's a bigger car.

(notice in the above quote the items in bold italics don't support the following sentence)

Originally Posted by The Tony Show

STS Dimensions

Lucerne Dimensions

The Lucerne is bigger in every measurable category. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp why a car built on the DTS platform has more room than a car built on the CTS platform.

(Please take note of the sentence in bold italics above)

With any luck, this may clear up my stance here but in the case that anyone here still feels that I haven't been consistent in this thread, please point out how.