The F-117 Stealth Fighter is being retired

[dkozloski]

Russia doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. They have two sources of revenue, oil and income tax and both are struggling.

[Chicano-Mexicano]

Originally Posted by dkozloski

Russia doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. They have two sources of revenue, oil and income tax and both are struggling.

And why is that, well you can thank the inept leadership of Boris Yeltsin form 1991-1999 (when he fled Russia fearing a possible coue). You try stabilizing a nation that was torn apart just 17 short years ago and has little to no economic reconstruction, little to no protection domestic industry against imports (i.e. import taxes), until 9 years ago and was the home of Iosep Stalins "brilliant" 5 years plans.

[EcSTSatic]

Don't sell the Soviets short. They make some awesome planes like the SU-30!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as33-0npooQ

[dkozloski]

The F-15 Eagle has NEVER been defeated in aerial combat. The current score of all nations flying it is 104 to 0. The Russians make all sorts of claims about one or two prototypes. Over 90% of the Russian airforce sits sinking into the mud. In any case the most important component of any combat aircraft is the pilot and there is absolutely no debate as to who holds the hammer there.

The most widely circulated pictures and videos of Russian combat aircraft are of spectacular crashes.

[EcSTSatic]

You need to get past the cold war. Google on "SU-30 buyers" and look at the potential global market (translated as threats) to the US. To the earlier question of why we must keep our edge, this is one example.

[dkozloski]

Originally Posted by EcSTSatic

You need to get past the cold war. Google on "SU-30 buyers" and look at the potential global market (translated as threats) to the US. To the earlier question of why we must keep our edge, this is one example.

I've been seeing this superior Russian hardware threat stuff for fifty years or more. The trouble with it is that a few fighters don't make an airforce. There has to be somebody to fly them and there has to be support in place all the way from mechs and techs to aerial refuling tankers. Without the ability to project force they are more a threat to the people of their own country than to anybody else.

[EcSTSatic]

I doubt the Koreans had a huge infrastructure in the 50's but they still managed to knock some of our guys out of the sky. The MIG-15 was superior to the F86 in its day. The MIG had a higher ceiling, higher rate of climb and better acceleration. Experience saved our guys, having just come out of WWII.

[dkozloski]

Originally Posted by EcSTSatic

I doubt the Koreans had a huge infrastructure in the 50's but they still managed to knock some of our guys out of the sky. The MIG-15 was superior to the F86 in its day. The MIG had a higher ceiling, higher rate of climb and better acceleration. Experience saved our guys, having just come out of WWII.

The Mig-15 had unboosted controls that acted like they were locked in concrete at higher speeds. Our guys used this flaw to their advantage and achieved a kill ratio in excess of 10:1. The American guys were better able to exploit the Mig-15's weaknesses than the enemy exploited the F-86's weaknesses.

Any Russian aircraft that I've examined closely; Mig-15, 17, 21, AN 124, and a couple of SUs is as crudely made as hammered shit. Probably the best Migs flying are the team flown by the Vodka company and are more Bondo than anything else.

[EcSTSatic]

That's good info, but my point was the Koreans were recording kills without the tech support our air force had.

[Sinister Angel]

Heh, apparently the NATO reporting name for the Mig-15 is ***ot.

[Sinister Angel]

god damn filter

reporting name is f agot

[dkozloski]

Originally Posted by EcSTSatic

That's good info, but my point was the Koreans were recording kills without the tech support our air force had.

The Russians were all over the Koreans helping them all the way up to and including pilots. There were Russians that claimed "Ace" status for their actions.

[Cadillacboy]

It was my fave fighter too

[GizmoQ]

The Wobbly Goblin was never a fighter (another one of the reason I disliked it) It was another single purpose aircraft like the F-111 and the Air Force shoulda learned from that fiasco, but couldn't convince Congress otherwise.

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by GizmoQ

It was another single purpose aircraft like the F-111 and the Air Force shoulda learned from that fiasco, but couldn't convince Congress otherwise.

The F-111F was one of the most, if not the most, successful strike aircraft during Desert Storm. It was credited with over 1500 tank kills, more than any other aircraft in theater.