BluRay > HDDVD

[dkozloski]

Compounding the problem is the fact that over the air broadcasters in small markets are unable to generate enough revenue to pay for any kind of upgrade. Locally we have no over the air broadcasters that have even upgraded to stereo sound from monaural. At the present time we have five local stations including PBS and two are low power. My guess is that the day the FCC says that the broadcasts must be digital and/or HD there will be at most two local stations on the air including PBS. The local cable is a mix of analog and digital and only the digital channels include enhanced sound of any kind. My guess is that the local situation is pretty much what you'll find in small market areas nationwide.

[lawfive]

You're on the money, Koz, except that the thing about the content providers not wanting to lose control of digital content is kind of non sequitur to this discussion.

In SoCal I have a 42" plasma and a 50" 1080i DLP that I'm happy with. Mostly, we watch 480i cable, the occasional 1080i HD cable, and DVDs (e.g. 480i) that the monitors upconvert. The difference between standard definition and extended definition is HUGE. The difference between extended definition and high definition... not so much.

Before I bought the 1080p monitor in San Francisco I did a lot of eyes-on comparison shopping. The reason I went 1080p was the lack of pixelation... future proofing was way down the list.

[lawfive]

Addendum: there are guys out there who, if you sit them in front of a 1080p monitor, can tell you whether the incoming signal is 720p (upconverted with interpolation) or 1080p EVERY time. I don't know how they do it. Sometimes I THINK I can tell the difference...

I have a similar problem when trying to appreciate Louis XIII cognac, 500 dollar wine, etc.

[dkozloski]

I'm watching 1080P HD cable converted down to 480P on my enhanced definition 42" plasma at the moment and it looks fairly good to me. The largest share of the so-called HD content has been converted from 480I to 1080P before it was broadcast. A lot of it is even being stretched to fit the wide screen format like "The First 48" that's on now. The only true 1080P content being broadcast on a daily basis is sporting events like the football playoffs today.

[lawfive]

Wow, we don't get that in 1080p here. Sporting events (at least over Time Warner and Comcast cable) come 1080i. Same diff, as long as the chipset that does the deinterlacing does it well.

[dkozloski]

Originally Posted by lawfive

Wow, we don't get that in 1080p here. Sporting events (at least over Time Warner and Comcast cable) come 1080i. Same diff, as long as the chipset that does the deinterlacing does it well.

My mistake, 1080I here. It's all upconverted and stretched from 480 for widescreen except for sporting events. The broadcasters and media people are terrified of their stuff being pirated.

[lawfive]

LOL, yes they are. And I'm sure that HDCP will work just exactly as well as all other DRM has so far.

[ewill3rd]

I have a 1080p capable TV with an HDMI input, I have an HDMI player but because all this BS is so clunky right now... no REAL industry standards in players and sets... when I use the HDMI input the TV shrinks it and the player shrinks it some more since it isn't 16X9 set. I am left with a picture that is clearer than you could believe but about 1/3 the height of the screen. I plan on holding out longer this time, I spent a lot of money on my current setup and it is a real let down. Once they work out the kinks, and lower the prices I'll spring.

Thanks for the explanations, it is helpful.
Component video gives me 720p right?

[lawfive]

Component video is analog, so your digital set top box or DVD player must convert the signal from digital to analog to get it onto the component cables, then your monitor must convert the signal back to digital. In theory, component cables can carry any video resolution up to and including 1080p. Your monitor may not be built to allow a resolution that high on component cables, though.

[lawfive]

Ewill, if your 4x3 set is newer, there may be menu settings for dealing with the incoming signal's aspect ratio. But nothing is going to really fix the problem until you get a widescreen monitor.

I have a Panasonic 1080p plasma, an Oppo 1080p upconverting DVD, and a Motorola cable box, and I'm doing all HDMI through a Yamaha receiver. It all works like a champ; no HDCP HDMI repeater problems. I can give you model numbers if you want. Although at this point, you may want to hold off on a DVD player. It's looking like the BlueRay / HD-DVD wars are almost over, based on what's coming out of CES.

[NOT ON MY WATCH]

HD-DVD has definitely not lost.

Internationally, HD-DVD is more popular. Also, many of the movies that are BluRay-exclusive domestically are available in HD-DVD internationally. Why does that matter? Because HD-DVD players are region-free, meaning they can play a domestic or imported HD-DVD. BluRay is not region-free, and you are locked into what Sony offers to the US market.

Domestically speaking, this will likely continue to be a long, drawn-out war, with neither side being able to throw a knock out punch.

Within a year or so, there will likely be sub-$200 players that will present both formats beautifully (the ones out now are kind of jack-of-all-trades, masters-of-none). So even if you spent $150 - $350 on an HD-DVD player within the last year, your collection of HD-DVDs will not be obsolete. Same thing goes for BluRay - if BluRay dies, there will be inexpensive dual-format players that will keep the media alive for a long time.

Anyone who buys either of these formats doesn't really have much to worry about, unless they are concerned with having to spend sub-$200 in 2 years for a better player than the one they bought.

Also, dedicated set-top boxes (using internet connection) will soon deliver *on demand* **ANY** movie, regardless of studio origin, in 1080p format to your HDTV. The concept of buying a physical format for your music and movie purchases has been dying for awhile now anyway, and many people with Cable already get HD movies on demand. These new set-top boxes will put more nails into the physical format concept's coffin.

Everyone should be aware that HD-DVD and BluRay are transitory formats anyway. Anyone who has done any research on the subject should know that. I'm not excusing the fact that all the manufacturers and studios don't make that fact well known to the public, but they are in business to make money, not educate the public.

Note that I make these statements being an owner of both formats. I have a Toshiba HD-2 (HD-DVD in family room with 56" HDTV) and PS3 (BluRay in game room with 40" HDTV) - and I have about 50 titles in each format.

[lawfive]

I'm format neutral... don't know anything about either one except that BlueRay is supposed to be able to hold more content per disc. Was waiting for the war to be over so as not to buy a BetaMax; now I guess I'll have to look into it deeper.

Thanks for the info.

[dkozloski]

The big sticker is that Blue Ray/HD discs or not it's going to be 480 upconverted content; the same as current DVD. It'll look a little sharper but there is no way in hell the studios are going to be releasing honest to god current 1080I movies on discs until they have a rock solid way to protect the content from pirating. It ain't gonna happen. They learned the hard way from napster. The studios had dreams of releasing all movie content as HD satellite downloads to the theaters but they even got scared off of that idea.

[P-Funk]

I don't see the need to spend twice as much for an HD/BR disc when my normal DVD and up-converting DVD player works well enough. There are very few movies where I would think a "better" picture would make the viewing any more enjoyable anyway. Disc price as much as player price is a draw back for me.

[NOT ON MY WATCH]

Originally Posted by dkozloski

The big sticker is that Blue Ray/HD discs or not it's going to be 480 upconverted content; the same as current DVD. It'll look a little sharper but there is no way in hell the studios are going to be releasing honest to god current 1080I movies on discs until they have a rock solid way to protect the content from pirating.

Regarding the resolution: you're wrong about that. One of thousands of articles on the web (this one from Wikipedia): "All HD-DVD movies are encoded in 1080p, with most supplements in 480i or 480p." BluRay is going to be similar.

Some older high def DVD players only support up to 1080i (like mine - but my 3 year old Samsung DLP HDTV is only 720p/1080i, so it didn't matter to me), and some support up to 1080p. As long as you use HDMI for the connection, and 1080i or 1080p is supported on both ends of that (the player and the TV), you will see that signal/resolution.

It is not 480i or 480p upconverted!