iDrive, One of the worst automotive concepts in recent history.

[Playdrv4me]

Sounds like a stick BMW, any stick BMW, will be exactly what you want.

[DaveSmed]

Originally Posted by Playdrv4me

Sounds like a stick BMW, any stick BMW, will be exactly what you want.

Yup. You really can't go wrong with any of them, but an E30 sounds like just what your looking for. Depending on the trim, the little features you are used to are usually included like trip computer, (avg mpg, distance to empty, outside temp, a speed reminder feature, and a really neat anti theft feature) power windows (haven't personally seen a US market E30 without them) power locks (ditto) and so on. It has the basics well covered.

The "e" models are cheaper, get phenomenal gas mileage for a 20 year old car (31-38 range typically), and are for the most part just as fun to drive as the "i" models. BMW usually nails the gearing perfectly based on the engine's characteristics, and this helps a lot. The "e" models are actually bigger than the "i", they displace 2.7L vs 2.5L, they do not rev as high (by a large margin) and they are very torque-oriented. The "i" models rev out higher, and have more HP up top at the expense of torque, but have steeper gears to make up for it. As far as "es" and "is", the sport models typically have more options, sit a hair lower, have some aero stuff (deeper front spoiler, stuff like that) and some came with nicer wheels. The plain 325 with no letter is basically the "e" but its the base model. There is no difference in engines other than "e" "i" and the four cyls. An "is" has the same engine as an "i". There is another called the "iX", that one is AWD. Hard to find a solid one as most were driven in the nastiest weather. "iC" is the one I have, there the ones with the fancy tarp covering the interior. FWIW, I paid $1200 for mine.

Driving one, there very comfortable in stock forum and handle pretty well. The leather holds up about as well as an older C-body (not a complement btw) and the interior isn't much to look at. The instrumentation is excellent however, as is the layout of the controls.

Best way to decide is look at a few, and drive them. I scoped out craigslist for your area, and people must think the things are made out of gold or something. I did find a few worth looking at though, especially if your a good at negotiating price.

'86 325, silver with black sport interior
'89 325i, white with tan non-sport interior. ('89 was the year of the facelift)
'86 325e 4dr, black with blue non sport interior
'84 325e, no pictures, supposedly needs battery. will have sport interior and trip
computer.

And I also found this....

'84 325e, white with tan sport interior..... and an M-50 engine from a newer 3 series and some other work. Quite a fun combination.

[Cadillacboy]

I Drive should be called F Drive

[Night Wolf]

Originally Posted by DaveSmed

Yup. You really can't go wrong with any of them, but an E30 sounds like just what your looking for. Depending on the trim, the little features you are used to are usually included like trip computer, (avg mpg, distance to empty, outside temp, a speed reminder feature, and a really neat anti theft feature) power windows (haven't personally seen a US market E30 without them) power locks (ditto) and so on. It has the basics well covered.

The "e" models are cheaper, get phenomenal gas mileage for a 20 year old car (31-38 range typically), and are for the most part just as fun to drive as the "i" models. BMW usually nails the gearing perfectly based on the engine's characteristics, and this helps a lot. The "e" models are actually bigger than the "i", they displace 2.7L vs 2.5L, they do not rev as high (by a large margin) and they are very torque-oriented. The "i" models rev out higher, and have more HP up top at the expense of torque, but have steeper gears to make up for it. As far as "es" and "is", the sport models typically have more options, sit a hair lower, have some aero stuff (deeper front spoiler, stuff like that) and some came with nicer wheels. The plain 325 with no letter is basically the "e" but its the base model. There is no difference in engines other than "e" "i" and the four cyls. An "is" has the same engine as an "i". There is another called the "iX", that one is AWD. Hard to find a solid one as most were driven in the nastiest weather. "iC" is the one I have, there the ones with the fancy tarp covering the interior. FWIW, I paid $1200 for mine.

Driving one, there very comfortable in stock forum and handle pretty well. The leather holds up about as well as an older C-body (not a complement btw) and the interior isn't much to look at. The instrumentation is excellent however, as is the layout of the controls.

Best way to decide is look at a few, and drive them. I scoped out craigslist for your area, and people must think the things are made out of gold or something. I did find a few worth looking at though, especially if your a good at negotiating price.

'86 325, silver with black sport interior
'89 325i, white with tan non-sport interior. ('89 was the year of the facelift)
'86 325e 4dr, black with blue non sport interior
'84 325e, no pictures, supposedly needs battery. will have sport interior and trip
computer.

And I also found this....

'84 325e, white with tan sport interior..... and an M-50 engine from a newer 3 series and some other work. Quite a fun combination.

OOOO they have a trip computer? I like that

I checked out cars.com and autotrader.com and they seemed to be asking alot, those ones on CL though, seem like a good deal.

I've been thinking about it more though, and I think I would really like a convertible, since I was interested in a convertible sports car, this kinda fits the bill.... but weather I am willing to pay a premium for one, I dunno. If I do decide on one, I may want to hold out to find one well kept... unless I was to stumble across a good deal or something.

So it seems like if I had it my way I'd get an '87-'93? preferably '89+ with the face lift, 325iC or the IS.... but if I find one for a good deal, any would do, but I'd prefer I6 and must be a 5spd.

I see these with 150-250k miles alot... I guess it's not like finding an 80's Brougham where $3,000 will buy a garage kept mint car with 60k miles..... but how do they age? I was reading up about them... says by 250k the manuals will loose 2nd gear, still, thats alot of miles on a car. I know to look out for the timing belts, whats the average life of a clutch on one of these too? The more I learn and read, the more intersted I get.

As far as style.... the exterior actually really appeals to me... the inteiror, yeah it's lacking, but I dunno, that dosn't really bother me too much... perhaps cause I would purchase it (and use it) for a drivers car, not a high end fancy luxury car, in that case, then it would bother me.

The "e" models seem to be rare.... would a 325e with 5spd be alot less fun to drive then an i?

Also, what sort of gas mileage do they get? 4cyl and 6? require premium?

[DaveSmed]

The trip computer was an option, albiet a popular one. It's commonly referred to as a "13 button". There's a "6 button" as well, and they suck. No fuel info. Anything else is a clock. Oh they also have something called a "Check Control" which monitors brake lights, taillights, lic. plate lights, headlights, washer fluid level, coolant level and oil level.

For instant fuel econ, they use a neat little gauge under the tach, much nicer than the digital displays that jump around too much.

They age very well, and mileage doesn't scare me one bit. A heads up- Don't trust any older German car odometer. They have a nice habit of not working, or working when they damn well please. Mine is at 240k and runs strong, and to be perfectly honest, I beat the living crap out of the thing. At some point in it's life, someone added a 4.10 posi, and I make sure I get my enjoyment out of it. Clutch life is typically very good on these cars, between me and my friends, we have/had 9 of them, and haven't needed to do a single clutch yet. The highest mileage car out of all of them was a 325e, with somewhere around 300k on it. Only thing wrong with it is over 80, it started to burn a little bit of oil. What finally did it in was my friend forgot the air filter and it ate a screw. I would pay more attention to how it drives, and maintenance history. Look at the power steering and brake fluids. They should be changed often, and be clear. (P/S can be red) If they are black, the car may have been neglected elsewhere. Also, 20 years takes its toll on rubber things. Luckily, theres not many bushings on the car. Unluckily, the few that are there are usually a pain in the ass to change. I would drive it and make sure everything feels "tight".

"e" models aren't really rare, and depending on the year they were the top of the line model and came with everything. As far as less fun to drive? there the same car, but with an engine built for torque and low revs vs. HP and higher revs. Gearing places them both about equal as far as the fun factor goes, yet in a drag race, the "i" will pull on the "e" A limited slip is the biggest factor as far as fun goes. They really do add a lot to the car. All sport models (exc 318iS) had it standard, and it was optional on any model.

Gas mileage on the "e" models is extremely good, in my old one, beating the snot out of it around town usually got me 25mpg, and highway was around 33mpg. That car had around 220k. My "i" is 26mpg highway, and 19-20mpg around town. (also being hard on it)

The fours are around "e" mileage from what I understand, and the pre and post facelift 318 are worlds apart. The pre facelift had the old M10 carried over from two previous generations, while the facelift cars had the newest designed engine ever put in an E30 from the factory. All but the facelift 318 and the M3 run on regular. In fact, the "i" motors even have lower compression than the "e", making turbocharging a popular option.

As far as the convertibles go, they kept the metal bumpers and the small taillights until '91 for some reason, yet the arch over the rear wheel is the same as the later models (meaning the plastic bumpers are interchangable) The convertibles are a bit strange in that regard.

Here's some prices to give you an idea of what they go for.

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50117
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47708
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49955
And I got mine for $1200 because it "needed an alternator". (Reattached the groundstrap, and was good to go!) It had a new top put on a year ago, new rad, new hoses, new thermostat, a small dent in the pass. front fender, and the stitching in the back seat (where the sun hits it) let go.

BTW, this is a 13 button OBC (on-board computer)

[Playdrv4me]

^^BMW God.

That little trip computer was BMWs leg up on Mercedes throughout the 80s and early 90s. While Mercedes was being its stalwart itself with nothing more fancy than an LCD temperature readout, BMW was innovating with that little trip computer. You could think of it as the earliest predecessor to i-drive, but alot easier to use, and just looked damn cool in the dash. I call it the "calculator".

What's funny is, that around 2000, Mercedes and BMW switched places and BMW fell way behind on technology until about 2002 with the 745.

[Jesda]

That trip computer is COOL as heck. It tells you DTE, MPG, arrival time, and much much more. I freaking loved it.

My 5-series had the old M20 inline 6 and a 5-speed manual. I miss that car every single day, even with almost 240,000 miles. When the world ends, all that will be left are roaches, ants, and 80s-90s BMWs.

[Cadillacboy]

I dunno what style do you like the best but I think diminishing the number of buttons makes more harm than good when it comes to functionality . This is one of the reasons the very 1st I Drive got criticised and they have begun to use a new I Drive thingy .
I can't imagine we only have 3-5 buttons for all the letters on the keyboard lol

[Night Wolf]

Hmmmm.... ***absorbing all this information***

More I read, more I like

[gary88]

Is this the same Rick who not too long ago despised the cold, heartless, sterile German interiors?

[DaveSmed]

Originally Posted by Jesda

That trip computer is COOL as heck. It tells you DTE, MPG, arrival time, and much much more. I freaking loved it.

My 5-series had the old M20 inline 6 and a 5-speed manual. I miss that car every single day, even with almost 240,000 miles. When the world ends, all that will be left are roaches, ants, and 80s-90s BMWs.

By far, the coolest feature is the CODE button. With the key in accessory, you hit that and the word code pops up next to four flashing dashes. you use the smaller buttons to enter in a 4 digit combination, and turn the key off. When you go to start the car, you have to enter in the combination first, or else it won't allow fuel or spark. If you try to start it three times or enter in the wrong code three times, it sounds a separate anti-theft horn for thirty seconds. Think Transporter.

[Night Wolf]

Originally Posted by gary88

Is this the same Rick who not too long ago despised the cold, heartless, sterile German interiors?

Sure is

Difference is, I am looking at this car strictly from a driving pleasure POV, and not high end luxury (which it's not) therefore the warmth of the interior isn't high on the list Tho I will admit, while it is cold looking, I don't mind the design too bad.

So right now my eye is on a 1984 318i..... trying to get ahold of the folks for more info.... yeah its the 4-popper, but from what I read, its still fun to drive, and despite the pathetic power output, still quick for what it is.... so it works for me Plus, if these things really get ~33mpg highway and mid/high 20's town... then sheesh.... that's pretty sweet.

[Playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by DaveSmed

By far, the coolest feature is the CODE button. With the key in accessory, you hit that and the word code pops up next to four flashing dashes. you use the smaller buttons to enter in a 4 digit combination, and turn the key off. When you go to start the car, you have to enter in the combination first, or else it won't allow fuel or spark. If you try to start it three times or enter in the wrong code three times, it sounds a separate anti-theft horn for thirty seconds. Think Transporter.

Believe it or not the Navigation/Trip computer in my 2003 Range Rover, and in all BMWs up through 2002 was just an evolution of that little trip computer. All of the same options are still in it, and a few new ones no one else has. One of my favorites is the doo-dad that lets you enter the remaining distance in your trip, and calculates exactly what time you will arrive based on your speed and the current time! You can also set cabin ventilation to turn on at a prespecified time up to 24 hours in the future so the cabin is cooler when you get in it. That code thing is still there too.

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Spent some more time in that 745i today...had to drive it across town to the BMW dealer for some repair work.

-A fair amount of wind noise, seems to be coming from the sunroof, but that was closed all the way. Wierd. The S Class is much quieter
-HVAC fan was quite loud.
- BMW's 4.4 liter V8 was INCREDIBLY smooth and quiet
- Highway acceleration was better than a FWD Northstar. Stunning from 60-70 mph.
- Comfortable, firm seats
- Big blind spots from the C pillar
- Loved that digital bar-graph instant fuel economy guage
- And yes, the iDrive, and all other controls, are becoming slightly more intuitive.
- The steering is a bit firmer than the steering in my Benz.
- Having the only volume controls on the steering wheel is DUMB.

[Night Wolf]

So as far as the BMW goes.... I found this, I called yesterday, but I am waiting for a call back today to get more info on the car. It's about 3hrs away, I was weighing all my options, and it seems like the best way to get this thing would be to rent a tow dolly from u-haul and tow it with none other then the Caddy. It's already got the heavy duty reciver hitch and wired up for towing trailer... plus the progressive rate springs and stuff... Apparently these cars only weigh around 2,500lbs, I figure if I keep it to 55-60 (or thereabouts, speedo dosn't work) it should be alright, it's not very hilly. Rebuilt trans has a big aftermarket cooler on it, engine cooling system has recently been serviced (my sliced finger will prove that)

It's a 1984 318i, 5spd, I know it's really sudden, but it may be one of those deals.... if so, then who knows, if not, I'll keep waiting. Says it runs good with "low miles for the year" asking $750.... if it runs and drives good and they take $500..... well... I may have a new toy.

Obviously its goldish, 2 door, I spot a sun roof, and apparently that spoiler is factory. Seems like the interior is tanish, which helps the sterile looking all black interior... from what I've been reading they should get pretty good gas mileage, mid-high 20's town and 30-35mpg highway... it's got fuel injection, 1.8L SOHC, something like 101hp and 105ft-lbs tq. or around there, but still fun to drive... whichever, not really that important... I'm willing to bet it's faster then the Isuzu, which is faster then the Caddy, so it can't be all that bad... but I am betting a while lot more fun to drive, which is the whole point of this. If anything, it would be something fun to drive around and to work and stuff, and save gas at the same time.

So on my weekend now, instead of fixing the blown headgasket on the Isuzu, I may be getting yet another car....









To be perfectly honest, I've been thinking about it all night at work and really looking forward to getting the call back from the owner...