iDrive, One of the worst automotive concepts in recent history.

[Night Wolf]

Originally Posted by Crown Vic Owner

i heard a mark viii feels the same way as well, but i dont know about that. I am waiting to get one of them next

As nice as they are... there is no manual trans option.

[Night Wolf]

Originally Posted by Playdrv4me

E30's are one of the cheapest ways to get into the full visceral BMW driving experience in its purest form. They are a blast to drive and for someone like you who is mechanically inclined, a joy to maintain.

BTW, Rick, I almost did a double take today when I looked over at the Kia Sedona (Gen 1) minivan driving next to me. I was amazed to see it had a digital dash! I immediately thought of you when I saw that.

EDIT: Hmm... now Im confused. Im not seeing any digital dash pics of any Sedonas. It must have been a Mercury Villager.

Villager is a rebadged Quest.... either way.... I don't know of them having digital dashes....

I've heard much of what you said about the E30...

Now question, does similar era 5-series offer the same fun to drive aspects and all, but with more luxury options? or is it a different animal? I hear about the E30 alot, but not many others of those years.

from my brief research, it seems like in 1987 they made changes to the enignes for more power and fuel econ...

I think the 2.5L I6 would be better then the 1.8L I4, more power, and, I like I6's. How is the 4cyl and 6cyl on gas? or, is the 4cyl better for any reason etc...?

I wanna learn more about them.... maybe they would satisfy my desire for wanting a fun sporty car to drive.... some can be had for cheap too....

[Jesda]

iDrive is what happens when you don't allow Germans to invade neighboring countries. To express their hatred of mankind, they built the 2002 7-series and iDrive. If we gave them Poland, everything would be back to normal at BMW.


Gross. Might as well put an "L" badge on it.

[Jesda]

Originally Posted by Crown Vic Owner

i heard a mark viii feels the same way as well, but i dont know about that. I am waiting to get one of them next

Mark VIII makes all the right moves, but the "feel" is lacking in some respects, like steering and braking. It stops with authority and turns with precision, but it doesn't give feedback to the driver the way an older BMW does.

[96Fleetwood]

My parents have had their 760Li for a year now.. no complaints with I-drive and both of them are not very computer literate.

To me it is a wave of the future, I had the pleasure of driving that 760Li from Virignia Beach to Charlotte and the I-drive makes everything so easy! No need to fumble for controls or take your eyes off the road once you get the hang of it.

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Originally Posted by Night Wolf

I must say, all this talk about BMW's has sparked my interest in them again.... I dunno, I always kinda like the simplicity of the E30's, I've heard they are an awesome drivers car.... I wonder how true that is... I want to experience one for myself... I've been in the mood for a fun to drive car too.... ah man.... I guess time to start researching...

Cool to see you're thinking German now...I knew some day you'd want to try it out.

I don't know much about these E30s, but I think Ian, Jesda or GothicaLeigh (sp?) would be a great person to talk to about these. I know GL has owned one before....I think a '90?

Originally Posted by Night Wolf

Now question, does similar era 5-series offer the same fun to drive aspects and all, but with more luxury options? or is it a different animal? I hear about the E30 alot, but not many others of those years.

From what I've heard from Jesda, he's owned a few E34's, the last I remember being an '89 525i (and I'm sure he'll chime in later), is that they're great cars to drive...not the quickest, but balanced wonderfully, and they handle like a dream...and I guess the steering and braking feel is amazing too...just amazing. One of the sales managers at my work has a '93 525i, and I've sat in it and drove it around the lot a few times...it's got nice, supportive seats that are covered in a high quality leather, and it's got a good amount of dark walnut trim in the cabin, and the most wonderfully complex trip computer I've ever seen, and like most German cars, the build quality is magnificent.

The only things I didn't really like about the car, atleast from what I've seen so far is the lack of interior room, and the very strange HVAC setup they have.



Here's a decent picture of one.. as you can see, there are three knobs, three horizontal sliders and three buttons. The three knobs control air temp and fan speed. The three sliders control air distribution..top being defrost, middle being dash and bottom being floor. When any of the sliders is in the full left position, it means no air will come out of those particular vents, but the further you slide them to the right, the more air they let through. So it's entirely possible to have a good amount of air blowing from all three zones....neat and odd. And IIRC the three buttons control: recirc, rear defrost and maybe the charcoal filter?

The Germans love to control the airflow.

Originally Posted by Night Wolf

I wanna learn more about them.... maybe they would satisfy my desire for wanting a fun sporty car to drive.... some can be had for cheap too....

Either an E30 or E34 would satisfy your criteria listed above. I think you'd be more partial to the 5 Series because it's slightly larger, more luxurious (has a warmer, less sterile interior) and it can be had with a stick-shift, and the I-6 is standard...in the later models you can get a 540i with the four liter, quad cam V-8, but an Inline 6 would be preferred.

Honestly, if I didn't live in the snowbelt and had a little more cash in the bank, I'd pick up an E34 just as a secondary car.

Originally Posted by Playdrv4me

The 2002 re-design of the 7 Series, including i-drive, was an attempt to not only catch up to, but exceed the expectations of customers who were leaving BMW in droves for the technology being offered by its competitors. You can't fault them for having some growing pains in such an incredibly different car from what they had created in the past.

I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

As far as the sport package, well whose dumb idea was it to buy a 2004 745i Sport in MINNESOTA in the WINTER? Of course it's going to be a bitch in the ice and snow.

Some brilliant sales manager that'll never have to drive the car around the lot. I'm almost positive I'm gonna have to sell them a new set of tires before we put that car on the lot (that'll be a thousand dollars...)

[Caddy Man]

Ive used iDrive in my friends 2004 745. Here is my take:

The thing that bothers me is that ALL functions (navigation, radio, etc) must be navigated by Idrive. To navigate through each menu for specific functions, you must turn the knob and scroll through everything to find what you want. If you MOVE the knob up, down, left, or right, it goes to different menus such as radio, navigations etc. This can be very confusing.

My father has a 2007 S 550. It has a similar set up except Mercedes gave several buttons for specific functions that are commonly used. Want to switch to navigation? Theres a navigation button next to the knob; want the radio or CD? Theres a button next to the knob for that....and my favorite is the ''Back'' button. Just press it and it backtracks you through the menus. Since these buttons dont require you to move the entire knob to access various menus, this means that to look for a specific function in the radio menu for example, you can scroll with the wheel OR just push the wheel to the right, left, up, or down as well. This system is much faster and simpler to use than iDrive.

You all should see the manual though to the S class...its THICK.

[Playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Jesda

iDrive is what happens when you don't allow Germans to invade neighboring countries. To express their hatred of mankind, they built the 2002 7-series and iDrive. If we gave them Poland, everything would be back to normal at BMW.


Gross. Might as well put an "L" badge on it.

Gorgeous.

[Playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792

I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.

Yup, youre absolutely right. Same thing as Cadillac. Alot of the older customers, and even many of the younger ones complained when the CTS came out that Cadillac was getting too far away from its roots.

Well, Cadillac decided to stay the course with its new direction, and Lincoln decided to appease its constituents... and we know where Lincoln is now.

[Night Wolf]

Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792

Cool to see you're thinking German now...I knew some day you'd want to try it out.

I don't know much about these E30s, but I think Ian, Jesda or GothicaLeigh (sp?) would be a great person to talk to about these. I know GL has owned one before....I think a '90?



From what I've heard from Jesda, he's owned a few E34's, the last I remember being an '89 525i (and I'm sure he'll chime in later), is that they're great cars to drive...not the quickest, but balanced wonderfully, and they handle like a dream...and I guess the steering and braking feel is amazing too...just amazing. One of the sales managers at my work has a '93 525i, and I've sat in it and drove it around the lot a few times...it's got nice, supportive seats that are covered in a high quality leather, and it's got a good amount of dark walnut trim in the cabin, and the most wonderfully complex trip computer I've ever seen, and like most German cars, the build quality is magnificent.

The only things I didn't really like about the car, atleast from what I've seen so far is the lack of interior room, and the very strange HVAC setup they have.



Here's a decent picture of one.. as you can see, there are three knobs, three horizontal sliders and three buttons. The three knobs control air temp and fan speed. The three sliders control air distribution..top being defrost, middle being dash and bottom being floor. When any of the sliders is in the full left position, it means no air will come out of those particular vents, but the further you slide them to the right, the more air they let through. So it's entirely possible to have a good amount of air blowing from all three zones....neat and odd. And IIRC the three buttons control: recirc, rear defrost and maybe the charcoal filter?

The Germans love to control the airflow.




Either an E30 or E34 would satisfy your criteria listed above. I think you'd be more partial to the 5 Series because it's slightly larger, more luxurious (has a warmer, less sterile interior) and it can be had with a stick-shift, and the I-6 is standard...in the later models you can get a 540i with the four liter, quad cam V-8, but an Inline 6 would be preferred.

Honestly, if I didn't live in the snowbelt and had a little more cash in the bank, I'd pick up an E34 just as a secondary car.



I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.



Some brilliant sales manager that'll never have to drive the car around the lot. I'm almost positive I'm gonna have to sell them a new set of tires before we put that car on the lot (that'll be a thousand dollars...)

I agree, the interior is alot better on the E34 then the E30....

But does the E34 still have that classic BMW drivers feel? thats what I would be most interested in.... a drivers car.

I do like the 5-series tho, for being a bit more upscale and stuff... and.... if a BMW, no V8 for me, I'd prefer the I6.

I never had anything against German cars... I gotta admit, since my friend was all into VW (now Saab... go figure) I've liked them... even that old Jetta had a really nice driving feel to it.

I take it that E34's are probably alot more money then E30's tho.... I see people talk about E30's poping up for $1,000 or less, thats kinda what I wanted to find, but I've been reading up alot about them... like any car, there are some things to watch out for.

I dunno if I'd keep the Town Car... it would be cool to have a car from each corner of the auto industry

But, I've got the urge for a drivers car... thats why I want a Saturn Sky Redline soo bad.... but... it will be years and years until those get anywhere near what I am willing to pay for a car.... other drivers cars I think of are Miatas, which I really don't want, and Corvettes, which are not really practical for me.... then thats pretty much it.... but now with these older BMW's... I dunno, I've always heard good things about them.... yeah they aren't a 2 seat roadster, but I don't mind having 4 doors and a back seat, makes it easy to move people around... and I can do without a convertible too....

Heh, just my mind going crazy... I dunno... I wanna drive one now.

So E30 vs E34.... pros and cons... enlighten me

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Originally Posted by Night Wolf

So E30 vs E34.... pros and cons... enlighten me

Yessir!

It's tough to find an E30 that's unmolested, clean and low mile. The lot of them have very high miles, and aren't generally very clean anymore. Their last year of production was '91, and that's pretty old now, at least to me. I'm not sure if the 2-door v. 4-door thing is a big deal to you, but IIRC, you prefer two doors...well luckily for you, the vast majority of the E30s were Coupes...not many sedans, and there's a good amount of convertibles out there too. A coworker had a red '90 325i coupe, and I got to sit in it once...it was dark, sterile and not particularly roomy, and it had none of the luxury features that modern BMW's have...it had power locks, power windows and A/C...that's about the most complex feature it had. I generally don't like the way they look..they were designed in '83 and they look it, and I've never been one for the way the old Bimmers look. Not my cup of tea, but from what I've heard, they're some of the "purist" BMW's ever made, and are probably more of a driver's car than the E34. The E30 only had the 1.8L I-4 for one year, 1991, and I'd definitely stick with the 2.5L I-6.

I like the E34 more because it's bigger, it's more luxurious, it's got more power goodies, it's quieter, it rides smoother yet it's still a driver's car...but it's a bigger drivers car, if you know what I mean. The E34 was designed for '88, and it's got a much bigger, mature look than the E30, while following the same common theme...German simplicity. And another nice thing is the E34 was built up until '95, so you can get one that's newer and has less miles, and has been maintained better. Basically, if the E30 is one of the purist driver's BMW's of all time, then I'd say the E34 is the purist BMW's driver's sedan of all time.


Here's a good comparison picture for you Rick.

'87 325i Sedan


'95 525i





Interior- 325i Sedan


525i



Hope this helps.

[Jesda]

BMW climate controls are AWFUL.

"Look, a place to stick another knob!"


[Thats what she said.]

[Playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Jesda

BMW climate controls are AWFUL.

"Look, a place to stick another knob!"


[Thats what she said.]

NICE!

[DaveSmed]

E30 vs E34.... The E34 is typically newer, The E28 is a little more in line with the E30, though around the time the E34 came out, the E30 did get a bit of a facelift with different bumpers and taillights among other things.

Example:


Anyway...
Rick, whatcha looking to use the car for? Looking to diversify your fleet a bit? Or looking for another car of the genre you prefer? What features are important to you? What kind of driving do you intend to do with the car?

There's enough different models to sort through to keep you busy for awhile, Early 318i, 325, 325e, 325es, 325i, 325is, 325iX, 325iC, Late 318i, 318is, 318iC, and of course, the crowd favorite, the M3.

[Night Wolf]

I dunno, at first I thought I'd possibly replace the Town Car... but I don't think I really want to do that, cause while those older BMW's are very unique... they defeintly weren't competing with the Town Car in terms of options and comfort.

Bascially, I'd want one cause I am really craving a fun and rewarding car to drive.... the Town Car, while fun to get sideways, and plow thru corners (it's got the touring/handling package ) is still a Town Car....

.... in fact, blame it on the Isuzu.... it's a truck, with 32" tires and lifted 2".... yet I still manage to drive it like a sports car at times..... it all started with this lever inside that says 1-2-3-4-5-R and I can't get enough of it! Seriously, I'm really in the mood for a car that is made to be driven.... see, I don't want a Camaro that just has gobs of power... I want a drivers car... and actually, to my surprise, I'm not even interested in power/speed it isn't all that it's cracked up to be..... I can back that up because my 120hp 4cyl truck provides more then enough for my normal day to day driving.... if it was an automatic, it would be flat out horrible and boring... but the manual trans just brings it all together.... I don't mind driving a low powered vehicle, cause it's still fun to drive.

Basically, compared to other cars I'd be interested in, I either really don't want one (Miata) or are wayyyy too expensive (Solstice/Sky) somewhere in the mix of things, it seems like an E30 would be a car that would pull it off.... while convertible would be sweet, I bet they are alot more money and harder to find.... so I really don't care, 2 door or 4 dosn't matter either.

I dunno, I'm not looking for a show queen... but I have heard of more then a few instances of people picking up these things for $1,000, or less, or a tad more depending on condition.... yeah it'd be nice to find one in mint shape, but I dunno, I'd just be interested in it for what it has to offer as far as driving goes.

As far as what I would use it for? Just driving, heck, since it's not what would be considered a fancy luxury car, I'd probably drive it to work too.... just something to have fun driving, that is the most important thing.

I was reading up... i is normal car, is... is sports version and e is economy.... M3 would be sweet, but hard to find and expensive make it a no. I'd prefer the I6 cause it's an I6, more power and stuff, but if I found a cheap 318, can't say I woudlnt take it..... so I guess a 325i would be what I want?

About the 5-series..... they are really nice... and if I was looking for a car to replace my other cars, and just have one, then yeah, I'd probably go with the E34 cause its bigger and more options and stuff.... but none of that really matters, and it seems like the E30 is *alot* cheaper then the E34, and thats good, plus it seems to be a better drivers car, and thats good too.

I dunno... it'll be a loooong time before anything happens, but I still want to learn about them and know what to look for and stuff, maybe keep an eye out. I'm defintily in no rush