I watched Full Metal Jacket last weekend and Apocalypse Now: Redux this weekend. Both are movies about the Vietnamese War that are some very crucially important movies...I think both of them are among the best 100 movies ever made. Which do you guys like more?

Me, as of right now, I like Full Metal Jacket more, it's more direct, less vague. Apocalypse Now was just too vague, too long for me, too much downtime, not enough action.

IIRC, Apocalypse Now is about the horrors of war, and how it causes insanity, atleast to an extent...I think that's the point Coppola was trying to get across, but I've never been any good at the big picture, I'm a detail man. It's harder to tell what FMJ was about, but I get the impression Kubrick was saying something distinctively anti military or anti Vietnam, which is wierd because that movie came out in '87, 12 years after Vietnam ended..

What do you guys think?

Apocalypse Now isn't a Vietnam War movie, it's a story or frame narrative that is set in the Vietnam War stage. The real story is from a novella from the early 1900s written by Joesph Conrad called Heart of Darkness.

So to compare them as Vietnam War movies really isn't a comparison. Stanley Kubrick was looking at the horrors of war set during Vietnam. Conrad / Coppola were recounting the dichotomy and contrast of civilised man and the ability to sink into barberism. Coppola simply chose Vietnam in his frame because it was the modern Congo of the day.

(this is of course a personal opinion) :)

Of these two, FMJ is the better movie. AN is more art film - but still not as bad as that godawful The Thin Red Line (did anybody get that?) Both FMJ and AN are directed by 60s anti-war activists about the time they hit their midlife crisis. The best Vietnam flick, told with honesty from the grunt level is Platoon. It almost hurts me to say that because Oliver Stone is such an ass...but he did that one right.

A/N is a adaptation of the Joseph Conrad book, "Heart of Darkness", so it helps a bit if you're familiar with what Conrad's theme was. As such, A/N is a rather good exposition of the parallels between Kurtz in the movie, and the like-named character in the book.

HoD was more about racism and colonialism in equatorial Africa, but the ideas common to the two efforts are similar - "civilization" vs "barbarism", the moral issues of both, etc. The book is intentionally vague in spots, because Conrad wants the reader to judge for himself - part of the idea of the whole thing is that there is no clear-cut answer.

A/N presented the same kinds of dichotomy that was evident in the Viet Nam conflict - the idealism of unspoiled youth vs the cynicism of veterans, the futility of attaching moral decisions in areas where they did not apply and so on.

A/N would probably not have been as effective had it been set in a different conflict, because Vietnam was the first, and perhaps only, conflict where a Playboy Bunny show would have been turned in to a free-for-all and later, into a brothel.

FMJ is more a movie about military life and how it (can) change you into something that you don't want to be, than it is a VIET NAM movie per se - it could have been set around any time frame.

The other great movie of this time that often gets overlooks is Platoon - Oliver Stone's epic is well cast, well-acted, and well-directed.

but still not as bad as that godawful The Thin Red Line (did anybody get that?)


OMG did that movie SUCK !



Want to find a nice little Vietnam Flick with R. Lee check out The Siege of Firebase Gloria. :D

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You guys beat me to it, but I was gonna say, Platoon needs to be on that list.... Opinions vary, but I thought Willem DaFoe and Charlie Sheen were quite brilliant in that film....

I Luv Caddys is too young to remember, but some of the best "backstory" in Hollywood came during the filming of "Apocalypse Now"... FFC was WAY over budget, a year late, on outrageously expensive sets out in the jungle.... and he wouldn't stop filming! The running joke at the time was that the studio was going to call in an air strike on FFC, to get him to stop....

But I digress....

If you want to see a rather disturbing and depressing movie, you might also check out "The Deer Hunter"....

I've heard good things about "The Deer Hunter" too...another five star movie, but not a happy one. IIRC, it's about how 5 buddies from a mining town in Pennsylvania go into the vietnam war and get killed? I've never seen it but I've heard about it.

I gotta check out Platoon. Kinda ironic that Charlie Sheen was in that vietnam flick, as his dad (at a much younger stage) was the main charachter in Apocalapyse now. What's that Vietnam flick with John Wayne in it? The Green Berets? Is that any good?

The best 'Nam story I've seen is "We were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson. It's a "Capra" movie for today. I didn't know what to think of FMJ although it brought vivid memories of the Marine Corps back to me. A/N and Platoon were just dramas IMO.


Semper Fi
:patriot:

What's that Vietnam flick with John Wayne in it? The Green Berets? Is that any good?

Yeah it's a good film, but it was also shot by Wayne in an effort to bring a good light on the actions of the U.S. in Vietnam (support the war), and specifically the Green Berets. I have it in my collection. :)

Ah, cool, that's on my list of manly films to watch after I see The Deer Hunter and Platoon! :thumbsup:

I didn't like FMJ at all.

It always amazes me that people obsess about Viet Nam but as war goes it was pretty pissant. It's my opinion that the college kids evolved from panty raids to anti-war out of boredom and never grew out of the delusion that they did a wonderful thing. In the great scheme of things both Viet Nam and Iraq are little more than speed bumps. In a real war they kill 50,000 or more a day. I guess if it's the only war you've got you have to make the best of it.

Apocalypse Now isn't a Vietnam War movie, it's a story or frame narrative that is set in the Vietnam War stage. The real story is from a novella from the early 1900s written by Joesph Conrad called Heart of Darkness.

So to compare them as Vietnam War movies really isn't a comparison. Stanley Kubrick was looking at the horrors of war set during Vietnam. Conrad / Coppola were recounting the dichotomy and contrast of civilised man and the ability to sink into barberism. Coppola simply chose Vietnam in his frame because it was the modern Congo of the day.

(this is of course a personal opinion) :)

:yeah: nuff said.



F

Heart of Darkness...I should snag a copy of that if I can find it...

Well now that I think of A/P as a movie not about Vietnam, but a movie about civilized society turning into barbarians under certain cirumstances, it makes much more sense.

i liked the Family Guy movie
lois is hot

Apocalypse Now isn't a Vietnam War movie, it's a story or frame narrative that is set in the Vietnam War stage. The real story is from a novella from the early 1900s written by Joesph Conrad called Heart of Darkness.

So to compare them as Vietnam War movies really isn't a comparison. Stanley Kubrick was looking at the horrors of war set during Vietnam. Conrad / Coppola were recounting the dichotomy and contrast of civilised man and the ability to sink into barberism. Coppola simply chose Vietnam in his frame because it was the modern Congo of the day.

(this is of course a personal opinion) :)
just seen this post and was thinking EXACTLY what CIWS said. two different concepts....meanings totally different and the such. Now if you said Platoon and Full Metal Jacket......that would be a better comparison and in that case Full Metal Jacket all the way. and you could even argue a comparison between Apocalypse Now and Platoon since there are characters both dealing with whats going on around them and the whole compromising morals idea...

The best 'Nam story I've seen is "We were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson. It's a "Capra" movie for today. I didn't know what to think of FMJ although it brought vivid memories of the Marine Corps back to me. A/N and Platoon were just dramas IMO.


Semper Fi
:patriot:

Agree here - WWS is excellent.

I've heard good things about "The Deer Hunter" too...another five star movie, but not a happy one. IIRC, it's about how 5 buddies from a mining town in Pennsylvania go into the vietnam war and get killed? I've never seen it but I've heard about it.

Despite what some may say, The Deerhunter is NOT a Viet Nam war movie. It's set in Viet Nam, yes, but it's not a Viet Nam war movie.

It is a movie about what war does to people. How innocence is destroyed by it. How love and friendship endure. How patriotism endures, even in the face of tragedy.

If you watch it when you're 20, then again when you're 40, you'll see two different movies.

De Niro, Savage, and Walken are superb in their parts, Meryl Streep does well as the 'girl left behind'. The music is perfect, the atmosphere chilling, the supporting cast flawless.

There are so many small moments in this film that perfectly capture Cimino's idea, you really have to watch it three or four times to catch them all. Example : during the wedding reception when Steven and Angela drink their toast, and the MC says, "If they don't spill a drop, they'll be lucky forever", and the camera catches a tiny drop of red wine falling on Angela's bodice, it's perfect - the red is blood, the white is innocence. Perfect. About 1/4 of a seconds worth of film that says it all.

It's NOT anti-war. It's about friendship, and love and honor and duty and how being in war changes you. But I do NOT think it is anti-war, per se.

If you haven't seen it, do so. But concentrate on it. You can't play Need for Speed on your Gameboy at the same time.

And I agree with Koz on his point - Viet Nam fractured our society in many ways, and was the first war we watched on TV during dinner, but it certainly, from the US point of view, is not comparable to any of the early larger conflicts that boys and men fought and died in.

The three days of Gettysburg in 1863 killed more men than our entire Viet Nam experience.

Approximately 6,600 US forces died on D-Day, which equates to what, about 4 more years of Iraq?

58,000 British soldiers alone died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916. By the time the battle ended, over 1 MILLION armed forces were dead - 500,000 German, 420,000 British, and 200,000 French. The Somme still stands today as the most horrific battle ever fought - it nearly wiped out an entire generation of young British men.

Major differences with the Vietnam conflict and it's veterans and other wars of this century are it was one which became very unpopular with the American public back home to the point of initiating social change and more importantly most of it's returning veterans were not welcomed home by the general public, but were treated as people who did something wrong and/or ignored and forgotten despite fighting for their country. It's not about total casualties, it's about how we treat those who give their lives for us, despite our goverment's politics.

We Were Soldiers is a better movie about the war because it's based on an actual man and situation from the war. It would be better to compare it with Hamburger Hill, because it's also based on a true story.

I voted for A/N. FMJ is a great film, but I always like A/N better. Much darker film, which delves a lot deeper into the human psyche and how fractured and distorted one's sense of reality can become in such a place.

The Deer Hunter is an incredible film though. Deniro, and Christopher Walken were great in it. I'd probably rate that above A/N in my list of all time great war movies.

I have to say though, that some of my favorites are from the WWII era. Such as The Great Escape, or Bridge over the River Kwai. Two endless classics. It's really hard to compare such films since like many of you have said, they delve into such different aspects of War and the toll it takes on different people and their various surroundings. Another fine example of great WWII classics would be Tora Tora Tora. Probably my favorite movie about the Pacific theater.

I liked FMJ , it ca hoorify me and yet still have me rolling on the floor clutching my stomach from laughing so hard .....in the coarse of its running it will pry more emoitions out me then most movies

neither to me really felt like an accuarate portrayal of nam , like others have said platooon is good ....i was never in namb , hell i wasnt even a stain on the floorboard of a plymouth then ....

another good one is BAT-21...which seems like it got reincarnated as behind enimy lines in bosnia years later ....

far beatter movies have used ww2 and prior wars and done much beatter ...vietnam is a diffrent animal ...to me blackhawk down beats most of the "nam" movies outside FMJ and BAT-21 ...typically i dont enjoy the nam set movies