: HOLe IN MY BLOCK-D'OH! ??motors around?



99cadillacman
02-17-07, 01:55 PM
hey i just got a 95 seville sts that decided to throw a rod out of the block under the intake(amazingly still runs lol)

i am having a hard time finding a deal on a motor around here(northern il)...
it seems that the 93-94 isnt right fo rsome reason and i was told the 96-99 motors may not be right either... is this true? do i have a one year motor?
if so can a newer motor be put in with minor modification?????
Also if i get a vin y motor will it run ok or will i need to swap out the cams?

its a 95, vin 9...
does anybody know what year motors can interchange with this one?
does anybodt know where i can get a goo ddeal on motor? im a poor working man i cant afford a $1800 motor....
thanks guys

codewize
02-17-07, 10:28 PM
Here we go again guys.

Umm 2 things here. If you lost a rod through the block, the motor isn't running. I promise.

And VIN 9 in 1995? That doesn't sound right to me. Vin 9 is the signifier for 2000+ 300HP spec engines. I don't think that was an option in 95 and you're not getting an N* for $1800. I think you're looking more at $4000 - $5000 used plus installation

And why is it that every time someone comes here looking for help claiming they have a hole in their block they can't type for crap.

99cadillacman
02-17-07, 10:48 PM
ok im not stupid man... im a ase certified master tech....
I know how to decode a vin.....

it is a 95....

the 8th digit is a 9 NOT A Y!!!!

and i can take a flashlight and look under the intake at the valley and i can look at a big hole in the block and i can see the crank and half a rod.... but whatever its not a rod.... a gremlin must have got in there with a hammer and liquid nitrogen and poked a hole in the block... and while he was at it he ate the two rods for lunch...2 pistons dont move but i can show a video of it running (not well but it does) on the other 6 cylinders if you still dont believe me/////lol

I need a motor and if you cant help me with a motor or help with other year compatibility information then why talk krap? Im looking for help not somebody thinking im a total moron... there are people on this forum that do know something about cars becides you.... If you cant answer the question then shut up.....not difficult.

This is why i never post on forums anymore everybody gets thier nose so far in some book they lose all grip on reality... the book says this, the book says that..... ugh. all i know is what im staring at and its a 95 with a vin 9 northstar...

but thanks for all the "help"

if anybody else would actually like to help me i would really appreciate it. If all your going to do is tell me im blind then please dont bother to post. thanks
mike

99cadillacman
02-17-07, 10:50 PM
oh and $4000 USED???? YOUR GETTING SHANKED....
GO TO CAR-PART.COM THEY RUN ABOUT $1500 BUT THANKS ANYWAYS

codewize
02-17-07, 11:25 PM
Ok so you have a hole in your block under the intake and you're telling me that the engine runs and you can see the rod moving up and down with the engine running? I'd love to see a video of that.

I'm not calling you a moron I just find that very very very unlikely.

If there is a VIN 9 engine in 95 I truly apologize. Is that a 4.9 and not an N*? If that's the case that's why your seeing engines for $1500 - $1800. Yes that you will find in that price range.

EDIT: Nope that's an N* all right. I'm sorry, a reman is about $5000. I can't even find a used one for sale anywhere, including car-part.com. VIN 9 huh? weird.

BodybyFisher
02-17-07, 11:54 PM
The 300HP L37 is (VIN 9) in the STS and ETC and 275HP LD8 is (VIN Y)

I have purchased 4.9s for $400 to $500 I have not purchased any NS's, but recently I tried to get a VIN 9 and discovered they are hard to find. The problem with purchasing an engine far away from you is the shipping cost..

Check out this link too see engine specs
http://100megsfree4.com/cadillac/cad1990/1995/CAD95.HTM

denscor
02-18-07, 12:03 AM
I have a 1995 STS and its a Vin 9 never been changed! I had a race car run with rod through side of block once. As long as it doesn't touch anything the rest of the motor will run. It will have no power and use alot of gas.LOL LOL

codewize
02-18-07, 12:38 AM
According to AllData that is backwards. Or at least in 2001 it's the other way around. VIN 9 is a 300HP LD8 and VIN Y is a 275 HP L37. Uhhggg

LOL that's interesting because I'm pretty sure you're correct. No I know you're correct. How the heck can AllData be wrong.


The 300HP L37 is (VIN 9) in the STS and ETC and 275HP LD8 is (VIN Y)

mtflight
02-18-07, 01:49 AM
I believe another forum member has purchased a rebuilt engine from these guys. They have a 3 yr unlimited mile warranty.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-99-Remanufactured-Cadillac-Northstar-Engine-Y-or-9_W0QQitemZ130080271720QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33615QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

99cadillacman
02-18-07, 10:59 AM
See i told you man.. I swear to you i drove it off of the trailer and into my garage..... ran like total krap and it spews oil everywhere but it does run still amazingly enough.....
What freaked me out is how it poked a hole in the valley but not in the side of the block or the oil pan... i guess the velley must have the thinnest ammount of metal there or something.. whatever its dead lol..

Had your nose too far up a book lol....
alldata??? = NODATA LOL That program is great for some stuff but totally fails in the real world sometimes too...
alldata does not know all ..none of those programs do...

Yeah i have found that if i had a vin y motor, theyre everywhere! SO whenever i need a n* for my 99 deville ill be good...
The "high" horse vin 9 is alot harder to find.. I think the only real diff is the cams and ecm....as far as i know..

I was hoping somebody could tell me what other year motors i could use, or if i could mabye use a vin y block crank+pistons with my vin 9 heads+cams.

If my seville was a 96 with obd2 any 96-99 motor would probhably work for me fine according to hollander interchange(another book lol) but my sts is that in-between 95 year so nobody knows lol.. just my luck..

It sucks so bad because this car is very very nice and id like to start driving it soon.

I may have to try a 96-up motor and let you guys know how it goes....
Unless somebody is a cadillac-pimp and has already been in this situation...
thanks so far for the input guys...
mike

eldorado1
02-18-07, 11:26 AM
According to AllData that is backwards. Or at least in 2001 it's the other way around. VIN 9 is a 300HP LD8 and VIN Y is a 275 HP L37. Uhhggg

LOL that's interesting because I'm pretty sure you're correct. No I know you're correct. How the heck can AllData be wrong.

I don't know, but it's wrong.

Vin 9 is, and has always been the L37, the 300hp engine.

codewize
02-18-07, 11:31 AM
Well I guess I owe you my humble apologies. I usually don't go to the book but while I was looking at TSB's for something else I stumbled across that image just as we were discussing this. I am truly amazed at the fact that it's clearly wrong. I guess I should write them and tell them.

Anyway I am also amazed at the fact that the engine starts at all with a piston totally missing and a whole in the block. I would think something would surely get jammed in there.

eldorado1
02-18-07, 11:31 AM
i am having a hard time finding a deal on a motor around here(northern il)...
it seems that the 93-94 isnt right fo rsome reason and i was told the 96-99 motors may not be right either... is this true? do i have a one year motor?
if so can a newer motor be put in with minor modification?????
Also if i get a vin y motor will it run ok or will i need to swap out the cams?


95 is an odd year. It's OBDI with the later style plastic intake.

Your block/heads are compatible with the 96-99 engines. You will find that the 96-99 engines have a knock sensor under the intake. 95 I think is on the side near the exhaust manifold. So you may have to drill and tap a hole for it.

If you get a complete engine, basically you'll just have to swap the throttle body and spacer from your 95 over to the 96, and tap (maybe - it might be there still on the 96) the knock sensor hole. Everything else should be the same.

ELDOminator
02-18-07, 01:50 PM
I'm pretty sure ALL OBD-I sensors have different plugs than OBD-II sensors. You'd have to change ALL of that stuff. Pretty much, I think you need a '95 vin 9 or swap all the electricals.

I could be wrong, please correct me. But I don't want you goin' out and buyin' an engine for it not to hook up to anything.

eldorado1
02-18-07, 02:35 PM
I could be wrong, please correct me.

You are. ;)

The only things that change from 95 to 96+ are the TPS and Idle motor, which are bolted on to the throttle body that he would need to swap over anyways. MAP sensor is the same.

99cadillacman
02-18-07, 06:06 PM
YES... this is th einfo i need ot know thank you guys. keep it coming.
I appreciate it alot....


i will continue to hunt fo ra 95 motor but i will likely end up trying my luvk at a newer motor....
i will let you know how it goes....

Ranger
02-18-07, 10:20 PM
If I am not mistaken, you can use a '93/'94 motor, but you would have to swap your intake manifold onto it. I thought the intake was the only change made in '95. Anybody agree with me?

foxjohnc
02-18-07, 10:53 PM
The 93-94 engines wont work...the heads are different and the intakes wont bolt on. The 96-99 engines are a direct swap and the only significant difference is the location of the knock sensor with the 96-99 being under the intake and the 95 on the rear of the block. This is not an issue though as you have two choices, you can just run a single wire to the knock sensor under the intake, or you can just screw the knock sensor from your engine into the predrilled and tapped hole in the back of the 96-99 block. You will have to change out intakes, as the newer intake will not work. Aside from those differences all the other sensors are identical. You should also be advised that the exhaust downpipe on the vin 9 engines is of a larger diameter than that of the vin y and must be swapped or the exhaust will not match up. Other than that you should be good to go and where are you located? Locally i get used northstars from around $300 to $750. You just have to know where to look.

Ranger
02-19-07, 12:30 PM
You will have to change out intakes, as the newer intake will not work.
Maybe that is what I was thinking of.

eldorado1
02-19-07, 03:19 PM
You will have to change out intakes, as the newer intake will not work....You should also be advised that the exhaust downpipe on the vin 9 engines is of a larger diameter than that of the vin y and must be swapped or the exhaust will not match up.

The intakes are different part numbers because the PCV circuit internal to the manifold was changed around a bit and the FPR nipple was moved. Nothing significant.

I also can't believe that they would use different exhaust diameters... Do you have proof of that?

foxjohnc
02-19-07, 10:58 PM
The 95 intake uses a metal throttle body whereas the newer one uses a plastic one. The wiring harness to the injectors and throttle body is different too. I dont know if they will swap but it is a very good idea to change them. It only takes about 5 minutes when the engine is out and you can reuse the gaskets as the intake is not wet. As far as the exhaust goes...i am the lead mechanic at my shop and i recently put a 95 model vin 9 engine in a 98 vin y sdv. I let another mechanic bolt the engine to the tranny and bolt in the engine mounts while i was working on another project. Well needless to say i went to bolt on the y pipe that joins the front downpipe and the rear manifold to the rest of the exhaust system and to my surprise it would not bolt on. The vin 9 engine's exhaust downpipe from the front manifold was approx 1/2 inch larger in diameter than that of the other engine. So needless to say i had to pull the motor back out and switch downpipes. The manifolds will swap though. Oh well at least the engine cradle was not bolted in yet. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that the oxygen sensor plugs are different and the sensors must be reused. Other than that you should be good to go.

eldorado1
02-20-07, 08:59 AM
The 95 intake uses a metal throttle body whereas the newer one uses a plastic one.

Right.

The exhaust differences are probably due to running changes between years. Not vin y/9 differences. but I'll believe it when I see different part numbers for the same year.

Dooman
02-20-07, 09:11 AM
YES... this is th einfo i need ot know thank you guys. keep it coming.
I appreciate it alot....


i will continue to hunt fo ra 95 motor but i will likely end up trying my luvk at a newer motor....
i will let you know how it goes....

I've got one in the Classifieds...

foxjohnc
02-20-07, 09:59 AM
You may be right about the exhaust change being due to the year difference as I have no newer vin 9s to compare it to. Either way this guy should be advised to change exhaust downpipes if he's gonna put a newer motor in.

99cadillacman
02-24-07, 04:40 PM
I got lucky (i guess) my boss looked around for two days and i swear ended up finding the only 95 vin 9 motor in the area lol...70k miles, but i had to pay $1500 for it... if that was a vin y i could have had one for $600 lol.. oh well.
looks ok but im going to have to reseal the case halves before i put it in(leaky). Ive never done it before on this particular motor but cant be too hard... going to go ahead and replace frt/rear seals too....plus i can check my mains too while im in there... I also got lucky and it has the updated metal fuel rail....sweet not it wont burn down on me lol
im going to do it in a lift... should i dump everything out the bottom or is it possible to sneak the motor out the top? thanks for all the info..... next caddie i get ill know what will interchange and what will not..

foxjohnc
02-25-07, 01:32 AM
The motor has to come out the bottom.

Odin8
02-25-07, 03:13 PM
Recommended and most common way is take it out the bottom, but it CAN be taken out the top if needed/wanted. Shaves 2-3 hours off of book labor time too.

99cadillacman
02-25-07, 06:26 PM
yeah the thing im mulling over is im afraid i will mess up the magnasteer or mess up brake lines dropping the cradle out... id rather shoehorn it out the top if its possible... ill plunk it out the bottom if i absoultely have to...

ill let everybody know how it goes next week.. and if anybody needs some parts ill have basically everything but the block to sell so let me know.. its a vin 9 so if somebodys looking for some vin 9 heads to pump up thier vin y motor let me know...
mike

zonie77
02-26-07, 12:14 AM
99cadman, I have some info for you.

First, do not pull the main caps to check the bearings. You should replace the bearings if you do so. Unless you know they are bad leave them alone.

Second, you do not have to disconnect the brake lines to drop the cradle. You will have to disco the AC lines though.

Third, the cradle drop is probably the fastest way to change engines. Several bolts are verryyyyy hard to access when you try to pull out the top. You will have to fight them and lose any time savings you think you'll have.

Look at the Head Gasket repair thread in tech tips.

99cadillacman
03-07-07, 08:56 PM
well so far i havent had time to put it in yet but i was able to reseal the case halves/frt-rear main seals, frt cover gasket,etc.....theres alot to the lower end of those things.....definately not a job for a novice thats for sure...
im planning on jamming it in this weekend hopefully...

mike

AlBundy
03-08-07, 12:45 PM
Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

MonzaRacer
03-10-07, 01:16 PM
OK so I get bashed on here a lot but here goes:
according to AREA (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Assoc. reference book) the block/Engine Vin 9 is listed as being produced 93-98, L37, with head casting 1647489.
Now the Y code was listed as 94-97 LD8.
As for me I would have contacted a machine shop ,found this info(or dealer), found a good low miles engine under the 93 to 98 time frame and had your heads redone and swapped them to another short block and this would have even gave you a look at cylinder wall condidtion too.
Anotherthing is that if the old block ist too damaged except for the vally ,get t welded shut and fix that shot block for a spare or donate the short block/complete engien to local tech scholl and take it as a tax write off(if possible).
But I figured someone would like to know what I found on that engine.

AlBundy
03-10-07, 08:42 PM
OK so I get bashed on here a lot but here goes:
according to AREA (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Assoc. reference book) the block/Engine Vin 9 is listed as being produced 93-98, L37, with head casting 1647489.
Now the Y code was listed as 94-97 LD8.
As for me I would have contacted a machine shop ,found this info(or dealer), found a good low miles engine under the 93 to 98 time frame and had your heads redone and swapped them to another short block and this would have even gave you a look at cylinder wall condidtion too.
Anotherthing is that if the old block ist too damaged except for the vally ,get t welded shut and fix that shot block for a spare or donate the short block/complete engien to local tech scholl and take it as a tax write off(if possible).
But I figured someone would like to know what I found on that engine.

Regardless of getting bashed it still helps when you show up with useful information.:thumbsup:

99cadillacman
03-13-07, 08:21 PM
According to the info ive gathered form people on the net and my local junkyards:

93-94 northstars had a metal intake manifold /no mass air sensor.
I was told the newer plastic intake on the 95 up northstars will not bolt to those early engines= not swappable into a newer caddie without alot of work.
(i.e. swap heads or make adapter?)
.
The 1995 northstar seems to be an odd duck. Its the 1st year for the Plastic intake manifold but does not have a mass air flow sensor. also appears to have a different throttle body then the newer northstars

The 96-99 motors are supposed to be the same plastic intake with mass airflow sensor, knock sensor is in a different location than the 95 engine.
I probhably could have got a 96-99 motor and drilled and tapped the block to install the knock sensor in the same location as the 95... swapped intake and sensors and made it work.... but i ended up finding the 95 engine so i went with that. So yes a guy could probhably make a 99 motor fit all the way back to a 95 caddie with some mods/swapping.

The main difference between the vin 9 and the vin y motors was supposed to be different camshafts and thats about it from what ive been told. I would assume you could swap camshafts and make a vin 9 motor into a vin y or vise-versa. Thats alot of work though and im sold you have to have a special otc or kent-moore tool kit to line up the cams....

thats all the into ive gathered... if anything is wring im sure i will be corrected lol ...still havent got a chance to jam my motor in yet. Hopefully sooon.

foxjohnc
03-14-07, 11:17 PM
The 96-99 block has the hole for the knock sensor already and it is already tapped. All you have to do is install the sensor...or route a wire to under the intake to the sensor which comes stock on the newer motor. The older block does not have the spot for the sensor under the intake. Either way the only crucial difference is the intake.

lisekpl
03-15-07, 11:46 PM
Hey 99caddy, I have the same problem with my 96 STS. My headgasket blew and I think I my bearings went also (my oil looks like a green milkshake). The engine had almost 200k. Well anyways I found a mint 99 STS motor in NY for $500 w/80k with a damaged head bolt, and it's already apart so I plan on timeserting it when it arrives. The only drawback is the $450 shipping charge but still it's a good deal. The moral is, there are some good deals on Ebay, that;s where I got it. But I see you already got it so you're straight.

P.S. If someone is interested in my old one then let me know, I might be wrong on the bearings but the hg needs to be replaced, and/or the heads might need to get resurfaced.