: Take me off the list of dead diffs...



commander112
02-16-07, 05:36 PM
My car has a rear end whine and when I took it into the dealer in the area that the V gang here recommended they decided it was the diff. and replaced it. When it came out of service it took me about two miles to realize that the wrong item was replaced. After looking around here:thumbsup: I learned of the transmission issue that affected 04 and 05's. Today I got the word that my car will be getting a transmission next week. So thank you GM for the updated differential and transmission at 48,500 miles.
Once the car comes out of the shop it gets to go to the body shop since someone rear ended me the other day and did $2300 in damage. Good news is it will not require any sheet metal work. Just a bumper and absorbers mainly.

Mark

NYC-V
02-16-07, 07:28 PM
i had the same shit in my car.....
just got a new differential from caddy ...
still have the whine tho, r u saying the whine is from the tranny???

commander112
02-16-07, 07:55 PM
i had the same shit in my car.....
just got a new differential from caddy ...
still have the whine tho, r u saying the whine is from the tranny???

It is the tranny if you hear the whine in 6th gear only at highway speeds on a 04/05. There is a TSB on the subject available here.

Mark

rand49er
02-16-07, 09:47 PM
Geez, Mark, sorry you're havin' this problem. BUT, it sounds like you're gonna be fixed up "real good." Wow, new dif AND tranny! Not bad! :thumbsup:

commander112
02-17-07, 06:59 AM
Yes Rand, GM is slowly rebuilding my ride piece by piece. Since I bought it this fall I have had each of the common issues taken care of. Leaking rad, peeling radio, dif (not needed but replaced in error by dealer when complaining about this noise in 6th at highway speeds), now a new transmission.

Mark

CVP33
02-17-07, 10:29 AM
BAD NEWS - It's not the rear differential that everyone keeps breaking
BAD NEWS - It is the transmission that keeps breaking

Why don't we hear about this frequency of failure in SRT-8's, M's, S's, AMG's, Mustangs, etc.? Damnit, I said I wouldn't do this anymore. My apologies.

JJKJ
02-17-07, 01:03 PM
There is nothing wrong with these transmissions. I few failures, par for the course. I've had variations of the T56 in many vehicles and put them through torture. I've had a couple fail, but considering the circumstances, I'd expect a failure now and then. They're a great tranny.

John

CVP33
02-17-07, 01:41 PM
There is nothing wrong with these transmissions. I few failures, par for the course. I've had variations of the T56 in many vehicles and put them through torture. I've had a couple fail, but considering the circumstances, I'd expect a failure now and then. They're a great tranny.

John

You're right, the transmission are perfect. My apologies again.

JJKJ
02-17-07, 03:18 PM
BAD NEWS - It's not the rear differential that everyone keeps breaking
BAD NEWS - It is the transmission that keeps breaking

Why don't we hear about this frequency of failure in SRT-8's, M's, S's, AMG's, Mustangs, etc.? Damnit, I said I wouldn't do this anymore. My apologies.

Forgot to mention in my last post, but since you mentioned Mustangs in your post, I'd imagine you would include the '03-'04 Cobra in that mix. If so, they're running the same T56 trans we are. The Viper has it's T56 variation too. SRT-8's don't offer a manual trans in any of the vehicles I know of. We share the exact same M12 ratios with the GTO and C5 Z06's and I haven't heard of any consistent failures there either. Sorry, just trying to figure out why the sour note on our trans?

John

CVP33
02-17-07, 03:32 PM
JJKJ,

Sometimes it's hard to convey emotion or intent via the internet. Trust me, you've won me over. In fact, if you read here I'm even using your logical argument.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum/98270-6th-gear-low-frequency-vibration.html

You can count on me. Next time someone posts that their transmission has failed or needs to be repaired I will post the same again. "There is nothing wrong with the CTS-V's transmission". I believe if you keep posting long enough the whiners will go away.

We'll also need to get rid of the numerous posts from people complaining about the transmission and the 31% of owners that had problems in the last Cadillac FAQ's survey. I'm confident that together you and I can change these enthusiasts minds despite the facts. Who's with me!?

REMEMBER - There is nothing wrong with the CTS-V's transmission.

Stay tuned - Next we'll be turning the tide on the rear differential issue. Despite the 22% of owners who've replaced thiers. Damn the facts, press on JJKJ, I've got your back!

JJKJ
02-17-07, 08:36 PM
Don't rely on me CVP. After reading your posts, Monday morning I'm heading down to whatever dealership will take this piece-of-crap Caddy off my hands and trade it. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to get me one of those automatic SRT-8's, or maybe I could get lucky enough to get me an M3 that doesn't have a valvetrain issue or hasn't had the engine replaced. I'll make sure I avoid any performance vehicle that has a T56 derivitive in it (that'll narrow the field down extensively).

Crap dude, just go drive the car and enjoy it. When it breaks take it in and have'em fix it. If you don't like it, trade it.

John

commander112
02-18-07, 12:03 AM
I hear sour grapes make rally great whine (pun intended)! Enough! CVP the SRT is the perfect vehicle and DCX didn't return my $35000 Jeep to me dirty every time it went in. They also didn't say that my warped rotors on both my Jeep and Dakota (now invovled in class action suits) were just fine. They also provided me no loaner along the way which is why I had the Dakota in the first place.
Every vehicle has a weak point or two. I repeat EVERY one does. In my opinion, GM has stood behind this vehicle better than ANY of the previous ones I have had before. That includes DCX and BMW.

Mark

CVP33
02-18-07, 03:03 AM
No sour grapes here. Owned a 2004 CTS-V, bailed out by dealer and kept whole. Put me in a new 2005 CTS-V. Bailed out there again by Chrysler dealer, kept whole and into a 2006 SRT-8. 29,000+ miles and no issues. I'm trying to help you guys. I have NO issues with resale, nor have I ever.

Since JJKJ has no staying power, who's with me. Repeat after me, there are no issues with the CTS-V rear differentials or transmission. And for that matter, the radiators or rear end wheel hop. The shifter is perfect. The dealer network is awesome and well informed about our CTS-V's. C'mon guys help me out here. I'm trying to perserve your resale value.

GM built us a great vehicle and it's about time we start telling the world! :thumbsup: Piss on the 2008, we don't need it. The 2004-2007 is a piece of engineering marvel and can't and shouldn't be improved. Frankly, why improve on perfection. I don't know why anyone would want a revised or so-called improved 2008.

The worst thing I ever did was sell my CTS-V's. Now I barely know my dealer, the service manager, or the Area Service Manager for Chrysler. Think of all the professionals I could be meeting. Yet another missed opportunity because I bought the Chrysler.

Ryan's '05-V
02-18-07, 07:12 AM
Hey Mark, it sounds like you are doing a good job of getting stuff taken care of. I ended up with 5 whiny diffs before it was over and when I had the dealer put my stock exhaust back on to turn in my lease in the tech told me the trans whined in 6th and needed to be replaced. We didn't do it since it was going away but I was not aware of that TSB. My tranny and diffs all seemed fine but they whined so of course that is not normal for any car, especially a great car like this.

Anyway, good luck and enjoy the V.

rand49er
02-18-07, 07:40 AM
Don't egg CVP on; his left leg is atrophied. :histeric:

CVP33
02-18-07, 09:34 AM
Don't egg CVP on; his left leg is atrophied. :histeric:

LOL.

JJKJ
02-18-07, 11:51 AM
No sour grapes here. Owned a 2004 CTS-V, bailed out by dealer and kept whole. Put me in a new 2005 CTS-V. Bailed out there again by Chrysler dealer, kept whole and into a 2006 SRT-8. 29,000+ miles and no issues. I'm trying to help you guys. I have NO issues with resale, nor have I ever.

Since JJKJ has no staying power, who's with me. Repeat after me, there are no issues with the CTS-V rear differentials or transmission. And for that matter, the radiators or rear end wheel hop. The shifter is perfect. The dealer network is awesome and well informed about our CTS-V's. C'mon guys help me out here. I'm trying to perserve your resale value.

GM built us a great vehicle and it's about time we start telling the world! :thumbsup: Piss on the 2008, we don't need it. The 2004-2007 is a piece of engineering marvel and can't and shouldn't be improved. Frankly, why improve on perfection. I don't know why anyone would want a revised or so-called improved 2008.

The worst thing I ever did was sell my CTS-V's. Now I barely know my dealer, the service manager, or the Area Service Manager for Chrysler. Think of all the professionals I could be meeting. Yet another missed opportunity because I bought the Chrysler.

Don't push me out so quickly CVP. I still haven't made the appointment with the doc for the required castration prior to trading on one of those slushbox-equipped SRT8's. Hell, I may just skip all the steps at once and go straight to the minivan. I hear they have very few transmission problems.

Oh and don't put words into my posts. I never mentioned a word about the diffs or other V issues. I mentioned only the trans was getting a bad wrap.

Now, onward with your continuing rant.

John

CVP33
02-18-07, 01:49 PM
I can only offer facts regarding failures and disatisfied owners. Unfortunately when engaging others using vague characterizations about "slush boxes", "castraction", etc. Facts are pretty useless. So carry on gents, you'll figure this out sooner or later. As for me, I figured it our 1 year, 11 days and 29,000 miles ago. :thumbsup:

JJKJ
02-18-07, 06:43 PM
I'm sorry I failed to refer to the statistically accurate survey you referred to from the Cadillac FAQ. While that survey provides some nice to know numbers, I'd hardly refer to the percentages you quoted as accurate. For one, no one knows what percentage of V owners are even on this site. There's no data stated as to what percentage of forum members that responded. I think we'll all agree that if you have had a problem, you'll be more likely to respond. For example, I haven't responded to any of the FAQ surveys and I've had no trans problems. Hopefully that didn't skew your highly accurate percentages too much.

Back to the issue, I stand behind any of the statements I've made regarding the T56. The same trans was mated behind the LS6 in the Z06 for many years as well as other performance cars. I've found no other source of info that shows a statisically high failure rate for the T56. If there is any part of the car that is under-engineered, it ain't that.

John

CVP33
02-18-07, 07:09 PM
John,

I've read nearly every post on this site as it relates to the V. If you do a quick search regarding tranmission failures and issues you'll find the T56 has a growing number of detractors. While I believe as you do, that dissatisfied owners are more likely to be vocal than satisfied owners, the numbers are disturbing. The FAQ's survey respondents represented 235 owners. 31% of these reporting having problems with thier tranmissions, or over 70 owners. Even if this represents the total number of transmissions I'm concerned. 1 failure is arbitrary, 2 failures coincidence, but over 30% and an untold number of unreported failures is no longer anectodal.

I'm trying to offer facts, specific to the V model and our owner's experiences. You seem to by trying to use the transitive property by explaining that the T56 doesn't fail in Corvettes and other performance vehicles so therefore it's not failing in V's. I'm having trouble making that leap with you. Are the "other" performance vehicles similar/same to the V's setup. Dual mass flywheels, two piece drive shafts, etc.? Could it be that the T56 is actually not up to propelling a 4,000 lb. vehicle with 3.73 gears and 400ft.lbs. of torque? Yet it could be perfectly suited for a vehicle over 700lbs. lighter and taller gears? There are many more facts to consider here.

I can personally tell you that my T56 failed twice. It was rebuilt once by the dealer. The second failure was sitting in a parking lot and I couldn't get the car to go into reverse. That was the last straw. I traded the V that same day for my 300C SRT-8.

You'll notice that I've bolded the word facts in my response. You'll find that when I decide to engage in a topic I use them (facts) frequently in my argument. Other than your stating that the T56 is in other performance vehicles, I'm struggling to find any facts that support your claims. I will make this commitment to you. If your next response does not contain facts again, I will ignore it.

Finally, you'll notice that I've not attacked you personally and I've made no judgement regarding your character. I've merely pointed out the lack of facts.

Respectfully,

cvp333

JJKJ
02-18-07, 09:13 PM
CVP,

I appreciate your desire to stick to the facts during this discussion. Obviously I've participated in some juvenile responses during this discussion but I'll address that later.

In regards to facts, we tend to disagree. You have stated 3 facts that I view as accurate:

1. You have had two transmission failures.
2. There have been 70 V owners that have had transmission problems who responded to the FAQ survey.
3. Those 70 owners represent 31% of the respondents.

First off, we'll use the numbers you're quoting from a specific survey, but you will note that these numbers are different from survey to survey (not by just 1 or 2% either). Now what do these facts tell me? Regarding your numbers, my view is they tell me only one thing--there have been 70 owners with transmission problems (71 if your specific case is not included in those numbers). Now I will admit that the 31% of respondents is a high rate. However, as I've pointed out, I would not remotely consider the FAQ survey to be statistially accurate. So you can quote the survey all you want, but I will not acknowledge the accuracy of that survey for determining any type of problem rate. I will only acknowledge the 70 (or 71) problems. Now let's get even more specific: what is the definition of "problem"? I see no reference that problem equals failure. For example, did maybe one, two or even three respondents reply to the survey that they were having trans problems because they did not understand the concept of CAGS and how it works? I, too have read many posts on this site (obviously not as many as you), but I have seen more than one thread/post questioning the whole 1-4 shift pattern. In other words, I see nothing factual about the survey response except 70 people thought there was a problem with their transmission. What a "problem" is, is not defined anywhere I could find. Furthermore, there is no connection or reference to mods and trans problems. In my opinion, once you add a supercharger or other significant HP mods, you're on your own for drivetrain reliability. A mfr should not be responsible for warrantying a trans when the owner adds 25% more HP than the car came with. Nowhere in the survey do I see a reference to stock V transmission problems. Again, the survey is not specific enough to be considered accurate.

Now you say that even if these 70 problems were the only problems fleetwide you would consider that a high number. Considering the number of V's made, I disagree. I don't have the accurate numbers, but from the FAQ, 6000 V's were made between 04 and 05. Add a conservative 3000/yr to that and we're at 12000 V's. Maybe someone can lend a hand to an accurate number here but even a couple thousand won't change my number much. I will even round down to 10000 V's to make the math easier. 70 failures out of 10000 V's gives us a 0.7% "problem" rate. Not 7 or 70, but .7%. That's damn good and enviable by any car mfr. Now, before you respond, I will already say that the .7% is not accurate because it is not a statistically accurate number for the reasons I've already stated. My only reason for the math was to demonstrate that the 70 reported problems is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of V's.

You seem to have problems with my logic or "transitive property" regarding failure rates of the T56 in other vehicles. You state some reasons why. While I disagree with some of your reasoning, I will give credit to some of your arguments. You have a valid point that the Corvette is a significantly lighter vehicle. However, I do not find validity in your other statements regarding dual-mass flywheel, 2-piece driveshaft or taller gears. Regarding the dual-mass flywheel, I'm not sure how that would affect transmission durabilty or longevity, maybe you could be more specific on that argument because I don't understand the connection. Same with the 2-piece driveshaft, I don't see a problem or connection, but I will say that I'm pretty sure the GTO is also a 2-piece driveshaft. In response to the taller gears argument, I would state the opposite. A taller gear would actually reduce the load on the trans and increase longevity. So, I will disregard the Corvette in this discussion because I can see your argument regarding the weight difference. However, I can't see how you would disregard other vehicles with nearly the same drivetrain when considering reliability. The f-body used different trans ratios, but is very similar in weight (my '01 WS6 convertible weighed over 3800lbs without driver) and had a more difficult to turn 3.42 rear. I've driven/raced many 4th gen f-bodies and the only failures were track-only racecars (I've had 2 failures). None of the f-bodies had 400hp stock, but none of my cars were stock. I've also owned an '04 and '05 GTO. The '05 GTO is nearly an exact comparison. It has the same 400hp LS2, same M12 ratios, nearly the same weight (mine was 4000lbs with me an 3/4 tank of gas) and again the numerically inferior 3.4x rear ratio. I have been a member of both f-body and GTO online communities for a very long time. Neither of these communities have ever questioned the durability of the T56.

I also referenced the fact that the T56 was in wide use across all big-3 domestic mfrs. While this gives no factual reference to a failure rate, it does give credence to the fact the T56 is a recognized durable unit.

Now there are the facts as I see them. You asked for them and I replied in kind. If you had asked for these facts after my first response instead of responding in a condescending tone, this thread would've remained on topic. However, you stated that intent is hard to interpret over the internet, while I agree with this statement at times, your tone was very easy to interpret. When you called me out by name and used sarcasm and a condescending tone, I replied in kind. Go back and take a look at when this thread veered off track.

I will apologize for my OT remarks, and in the future respond with only facts as you requested. However, I ask that you respond as well in kind.

John

diamondj
02-18-07, 10:11 PM
CVP33,

Do you prefer this site to the SRT Forums?

No tran or rear problems with 25k, I did not answer the survey either.

CVP33
02-19-07, 05:21 PM
John,

Nice response and yes I did read it all. Nothing to refute or debate as you've stated you disagree and I stated same.

Thanks for the additional facts.

Chris

Diamondj,

I prefer forums where the members are educated, well spoken and share in their passion of cars and for cars. You should've participated in the survey. I'm confident that GM reads these at some level and have helped improve the 2008 model.

Chris

CTS-BV
02-19-07, 08:42 PM
Back to the topic at hand....have many here had diff problems that were satisfied by the dealrship? I would like to hear from the owners only. That is, as opposed to the people who lease their V. That skews the feedback a bit in that a dealership may treat one who is leasing a V differently (read, better).

So, is it true, if GM replaces your diff you get an upgrade? Say on my 2004, I might get the tougher 2005 unit?

CTS-BV

commander112
02-19-07, 08:51 PM
Back to the topic at hand....have many here had diff problems that were satisfied by the dealrship? I would like to hear from the owners only. That is, as opposed to the people who lease their V. That skews the feedback a bit in that a dealership may treat one who is leasing a V differently (read, better).

So, is it true, if GM replaces your diff you get an upgrade? Say on my 2004, I might get the tougher 2005 unit?

CTS-BV

Dealers do not treat leasees better than owners and I have been treated very well as an owner.

Mark

CTS-BV
02-19-07, 09:51 PM
Dealers do not treat leasees better than owners and I have been treated very well as an owner.

Mark

Mark,

I don't doubt you have been treated well by Cadillac personell. I fail to hear many others both locally and online who are so undulated with each and every Cadillac service experience.

I think it's plausible for a dealership to recognize a leased car and treat it's owner and that particular car better because they may see a future of additional business more clearly, than say, the second owner of a Cadillac, who did not purchase this one at that particular dealership.

I own my V. I bought it second hand and if my regular dealership Svc Writer isn't at the dealership when I call for help, I am treated like a 3rd class refugee who just washed up on the beach from another country with a 2nd grade education -- that sucks.

I know you started this thread with a positive tone and now it's gone everywhere else, but please keep an open mind about others' experiences that apparently differ from yours. Consider yourself lucky that you are treated so well. That's awesome.

CTS-BV

urbanski
02-21-07, 06:51 PM
a great tranny.

John

a great tranny is a wonderful thing

CVP33
02-21-07, 07:25 PM
a great tranny is a wonderful thing

I'd say you have no idea, but of course.......you do.