Here's a question for those that are interested. I was driving my new '04 SRX (sweet) from Philly to Princeton on I-95. The factory-installed navigation system lost contact with the GPS satellite signal just outside of Philly, and it stayed lost for an hour and a half to Princeton, by which time it had accumulated significant error in my position. My dealership could find nothing wrong. A person at Cadillac tech support said (I'm not making this up) "sometimes the government turns off the GPS system for security purposes." I find this statement non-credible, considering the life-saving uses to which GPS is put by millions of users. So before I start working my way up the complaint ladder at the dealer and at Cadillac, I thought I would ask forum members for their opinions and suggestions. My thanks to anyone who replies.

It is always possible that you had extremely bad luck, i.e. satellite went out of service, only two others available, extremely bad weather, etc. simultaneously. For GPS updates, see
http://www.schriever.af.mil/GpsSupportCenter/advisories.htm. Note one satellite was out yesterday. Usually though, I can pickup at least 7-9 so that should not be a problem since you only need 3-4 minimum. The vast majority of the time, I can access 8 or more. Thus it is VERY unlikely that the availability or access to the GPS satellites is your problem.

I agree that the dealer is full of $h*t. I know that DOD can make the satellites' transponder accuracy better for military versus commercial purposes, but I am not aware of a way to turn it "off". More likely, your external antenna's connection simply came loose or a malfunction with the Nav system itself.

BTW, if you take it into the dealer, could you please inquire as to whether there is a new DVD or system firmware update for this Nav System? Specifically, I have problems with incorrect/bad routing, no GPS screen, no system options (such as undoing the safety override), and other issues. Thank you!

Thanks. I haven't had the problems you have, but if I go back for this, I will ask. My plan right now is to take my Garmin portable unit from another car I have, and test the two systems side by side. We'll see what happens.

Unless you have a different Nav system or I have a defective one, I think we all must have the SAME issues that I have. Perhaps you don't care as much, but these issues still exist. Just to be more specific:

1. Bad/Incorrect routing-On several test routes, the Nav system has improperly or inefficiently routed. For example, it has sent me through tunnels when it should not have, directed me in a circuitous route, etc.

2. No GPS screen-Where is the GPS lock type (3-D vs. 2-D), elevation, GPS satellite information, signal strength information, satellite directional map, time, etc.?

3. System Options--How do I turn off the safety "feature"? How do you tell what version of the software/mapping data we are using?

I am already using a Garmin StreetPilot III for side-by-side comparison on display quality, performance, GPS data, autorouting, mapping, features, etc.

Anyone know if these are WAAS enabled? (Mine's on order, and I know better than to ask the dealer!)

Anyone know if these are WAAS enabled? (Mine's on order, and I know better than to ask the dealer!)Beats me. It seems when you buy an OEM Nav unit, you get no system documentation, no technical specifications, and no user-customizable or user-accessible system features/functions! Obviously Cadillac assumes all SRX owners are all basic/beginner users, or are too stupid to want to know this information or use advanced features! This is exactly why I've been complaining so much about the Nav system.

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!

There IS documentation, although fairly basic and skimpy on the details as already observed. I've passed some of Terpnuts concerns on to my dealer and hopefully if enough owners raise this issue we'll see them addressed in upcoming firmware updates. It's good to be optimistic, no?

I've been very happy with the NAV but there is certainly room for improvement.

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!

I care! I care! :bouncy:

Clearly, GM has assumed we only deserve a dumbed-down unit, with minimal documentation. I can't find any reference to the original manufacturer of the unit. Can we get GM to give us more info? Or, is there a group anywhere that has begun hacking the nav system?

When it comes to the electronics, my dealer knows how to do one thing and one thing only - run a diagnostic. Conversations at that level are very frustrating.

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!As riff pointed out, there is the basic user guide documentation for the Nav system. You can download from http://www.mygmlink.com.

What I meant is system documentation with more details including specifications, etc.

I care! I care! :bouncy:

Clearly, GM has assumed we only deserve a dumbed-down unit, with minimal documentation. I can't find any reference to the original manufacturer of the unit. Can we get GM to give us more info? Or, is there a group anywhere that has begun hacking the nav system?

When it comes to the electronics, my dealer knows how to do one thing and one thing only - run a diagnostic. Conversations at that level are very frustrating.A GPS/Nav system-nut coworker guessed that Magellan OEM's the Cadillac Nav System. One site says it's a Denso (http://www.autonav2000.com/Compare/Compare2.htm). When I asked my sales rep, he said he did not know. But when I specifically asked whether it was a Magellan OEM unit, he said "Yeah, that's it!". As for tips, hacks and other things, as of right now, I can't find anything.

I have a few things that I am specifically focused on:

1. Determining the OEM and model of the unit (is it Magellan?). Is this specific make and model perhaps being deployed in any other Cadillac vehicles and/or by other manufacturers? If so, which ones?

2. Finding hidden access menus or tricks within the existing OEM unit. For example, I'm guessing there is some sort of press & hold "menu" for 5 seconds, hit "route" and then hold "map" for 2 seconds, and then a system menu pops up. Perhaps a friendly and knowledgable dealership technician could help us with this?

3. Since the system is heavily DVD-dependent, finding and getting the latest DVD updates that address known mapping data errors, auto-routing bugs and interface improvements. Again, I would hope we can get these from the OEM, but worst-case, we will bug the dealer.

4. The SRX is covered under a manufacturer's 4 yr/60,000 mi warranty, but not scheduled maintenance. Thus are the Nav System's DVD updates covered under warranty, or is it considered a separate upgrade/update cost? I consider this a grey area, since bug fixes and interface improvements should be covered, but updates to maps probably are not. For those new to Nav systems/mapping data updates, be forewarned, they are usually not free (my StreetPilot III's Mapsource v5.0 update just cost me $150). Since the dealerships want to make money, I am skeptical we will get them for free. Hence I would like to find third-party sources for fixes/updates to the OEM unit. Of course, then the dealership may void the warranty. :rolleyes2

Sorry for the long post. Please post here if anyone else learns anything interesting. :)

Well here's something that's sure to prove useless. I don't think it's covered in the manual.

Holding down the button right above the power/volume knob, the one with the music note and a oval on it, for about 3 seconds takes you into diagnostics mode. There's a catch... it asks for a PIN # that I have been unable to guess as of right now.



A GPS/Nav system-nut coworker guessed that Magellan OEM's the Cadillac Nav System. I checked some web sites and they seem to confirm this (http://www.autonav2000.com/Compare/Compare2.htm). Also, when I asked my sales rep, he said he did not know. But when I specifically asked whether it was a Magellan OEM unit, he said "Yeah, that's it!". As for tips, hacks and other things, as of right now, I can't find anything.

I have a few things that I am specifically focused on:

1. Determining the OEM and model of the unit (is it Magellan?). Is this specific make and model perhaps being deployed in any other Cadillac vehicles and/or by other manufacturers? If so, which ones?

2. Finding hidden access menus or tricks within the existing OEM unit. For example, I'm guessing there is some sort of press & hold "menu" for 5 seconds, hit "route" and then hold "map" for 2 seconds, and then a system menu pops up. Perhaps a friendly and knowledgable dealership technician could help us with this?

3. Since the system is heavily DVD-dependent, finding and getting the latest DVD updates that address known mapping data errors, auto-routing bugs and interface improvements. Again, I would hope we can get these from the OEM, but worst-case, we will bug the dealer.

4. The SRX is covered under a manufacturer's 4 yr/60,000 mi warranty, but not scheduled maintenance. Thus are the Nav System's DVD updates covered under warranty, or is it considered a separate upgrade/update cost? I consider this a grey area, since bug fixes and interface improvements should be covered, but updates to maps probably are not. For those new to Nav systems/mapping data updates, be forewarned, they are usually not free (my StreetPilot III's Mapsource v5.0 update just cost me $150). Since the dealerships want to make money, I am skeptical we will get them for free. Hence I would like to find third-party sources for fixes/updates to the OEM unit. Of course, then the dealership may void the warranty. :rolleyes2

Sorry for the long post. Please post here if anyone else learns anything interesting. :)

Hey, now we're making progress. :)

Now, who can hack the PIN? :lildevil: Or who has a friend at the dealership? :halo:

With cell phones the PIN #'s were usually all 0's or 1's. In my experience, anyway. It seems that the PIN # for the NAV diagnostic mode can be as low as 3 digits.

I'll fiddle with it a bit today. There HAS to be a universal code that's not too difficult on the memories of those that need access to the diagnostics mode.

1791

Entering 1791 keeps you at the PIN screen while other combinations, presumedly wrong, kick you back to the map screen.

I don't see any difference after going into the diagnostics mode. Maybe it just keeps track of something to be output later for diagnosis? Or is there something I'm missing?



1791

There is something you are missing.

WELL-----?

Inquiring minds want to know! :hmm:

Inquiring minds want to know! :hmm:
Right! You're not helping things Joe... only building anticipation.

I've made no progress on this either. What is the deal with '1791'? Hmmmm....:banghead:

JoeCaddy1--Where are you? Do you know something we don't?:bouncy:

You may want to think of the other possible uses for the nav system. However, it may not be too legal.

I Don't have a nav system but this threads "who Dunnit" flavor has me hooked. Can we start to guess? I think an illegal use of a nav system in the front seat would be to play a movie DVD after entering the magic PIN.:canttalk:

You may want to think of the other possible uses for the nav system. However, it may not be too legal.All I want is a way to disable the nav system's "safety" features (like you can on most nav systems) so I can change routes while driving. One of these "safeties" is the aforementioned ability to watch a DVD while moving. But I think this is illegal only in a few states, right? Anyone tried to play a DVD while the vehicle is moving after entering our 1791 PIN? Hmmmmm...:halo:

Well, folks, I think Joe told up all he "thinks" he can legally say.

As I don't have my SRX yet, someone please let us know if it works.

OH----Thanks Joe. Er---I mean John Doe!! :shhh:

well, I think it's something about radar detection... or Points of Interest insert ?

well, I think it's something about radar detection... or Points of Interest insert ?Radar detectors are only illegal in Virginia and in Washington DC so I doubt that is it.

Paul---WAKE UP! He's told us it'll play DVD's in gear. Besides, radar detection takes a receiver.

John Doe needs to protect his A--!

Can someone double check it?

So I drove the SRX today while watching a DVD. Yes, that's what the diagnostics mode allows. No, I didn't break any laws - I was simply going up and down my driveway. :lildevil:

Now there is the problem of the Navigation menu. It still cannot be accessed while the vehicle is in motion - so one can't change from 2d to 3d view until the vehicle comes to a stop. Bummer. Any way to circumvent this?

Now, another question - has anyone tried playing their home made dvd discs? I tried my archived home movies (burned with a Sony DVD burner on Imation DVD+R and Memorex DVD-R discs) with no luck. While the disc was read and audio clear - the picture would keep scrolling from top to bottom. Maybe just incompatible disc or mode? Anyone?

Ok, so I checked my other home mad dvd-r discs and can answer my own question. About 50% of them work. There are many variables such as software used to make the discs, whether or not I created a menu and disc type - but be assured that the DVD player does read some home-made dvd discs... if anyone cares. :)

I didn't know what was this strange 1791 for, because I have not my car for a weeK.
But, now we have somebody who knows the secrets of CTS, could I know how to change region of dvd player : I live in France, dvd's are zone 2 but my cts has been delivered with dvd player on zone 1...

Paul,

Sorry--didn't pay attention to your location.

As for the location zone, you'd best contact GM Europe. They should have forseen that and supplied a zone 2 player.

However, in GM's defense, the NAV radio's prime purpose is not as a DVD movie player.

Good luck---I believe you'll need it for this one!

...
Now there is the problem of the Navigation menu. It still cannot be accessed while the vehicle is in motion - so one can't change from 2d to 3d view until the vehicle comes to a stop. Bummer. Any way to circumvent this?Disabling the Nav System's "safety" feature is still my NUMBER 1 priority/interest!!! This "feature" greatly reduces my Nav system's usefulness--especially on road trips. My passenger (or even the driver if they are being careful) SHOULD be allowed to change routes or add waypoints while the vehicle is in motion. For example, on road trips, we constantly need to find gas stations, maybe stop at a State Park, or find restaurants to eat at. Drivers can legally put on make-up, talk on the phone and fiddle with radio stations, but it's unsafe for my passenger to search for a StarBuck's? Arghhhh!!! :annoyed:

I'm really totally OK ! :rant2:

Holy cow, it does work! I just drove around watching a DVD. My wife and I can now see what my kids see. Thank you so much Joe! The "hack" to do this on my wife's car (Acura TL) costed me ~$800! (converter alone costed $500 + DVD player+ install)

On the other hand, I feel this "code" can dangerous in the hands of irresponsible drivers. It's so easy to do, it's scary. I think the code should be taken down and the people that know it should be very careful about sharing it. We wouldn't want everybody and their mother driving around watching DVDs.


...
Now, another question - has anyone tried playing their home made dvd discs? I tried my archived home movies (burned with a Sony DVD burner on Imation DVD+R and Memorex DVD-R discs) with no luck. While the disc was read and audio clear - the picture would keep scrolling from top to bottom. Maybe just incompatible disc or mode? Anyone?

Ok, so I checked my other home mad dvd-r discs and can answer my own question. About 50% of them work. There are many variables such as software used to make the discs, whether or not I created a menu and disc type - but be assured that the DVD player does read some home-made dvd discs... if anyone cares. :)


I have a backup library of all my kid's DVD in the car, and they all work fine in the rear DVD player, but as you found out, some of those disks are not recognized by the front DVD player. I am using a Lite-On 4X burner, DVDShrink encoder, RecordNow burning software, and using Ritek G04 DVD-R's (I hear Riteks have the best DVD player compatibility). The limited testing I've done also shows about 50% readability. I'll tweak my setup to see if I can do better (maybe burn at 1X using Nero, etc.)

Holy cow, it does work! I just drove around watching a DVD. My wife and I can now see what my kids see. I haven't tried this yet, but could you clarify what you mean by "see what my kids see"? Are you saying that you can see what is already playing on the rear seat DVD system? Or do you mean that you are playing a DVD in the front/nav system only? I'm confused. Thanks in advance for clarifying!

I haven't tried this yet, but could you clarify what you mean by "see what my kids see"? Are you saying that you can see what is already playing on the rear seat DVD system? Or do you mean that you are playing a DVD in the front/nav system only? I'm confused. Thanks in advance for clarifying!

Sorry for the ambiguity. No, I can't see what's playing in the rear DVD player on the front nav screen. But now, I can play a DVD in the front DVD player and have it displayed on the both screens while the car's in motion. That's what I meant.

I wonder if there's a way to play a DVD in the rear player and have it show up on both screens. The rear player seems more compatible to home-made DVDs.

I think that burning at 1x might help ensure playback compatibility. Software could also be the culprit - from what I hear Alcohol 120% and Ahead Nero seem to work best. Both +R and -R work at about a 50% clip (3 out of 6 of my Memorex +R worked, 2-4 of my Memorex -R worked and 2-3 of my Imation -R worked)... I'll need to check out some other brands (TDK perhaps? heard good things about them and home DVD players)...

Still, all things considered it's not too bad. Even some recent home DVD players don't always recognize dvd-r's and I doubt that was high on the list of priorites when the NAV system was designed.

Finally, I certainly would not advise anyone to watch DVD movies while driving. It is a great option for Live Concert dvd's though.

Terpnut: though I've never searched for a Starbucks yet I did use my favorite command ("I'm Hungry") while driving back from Florida to search out restaurants close to my route. That worked rather well.

I do think it's silly that you can zoom in/out, scroll around and turn on/off the POI icons but are locked out from other options.

Sorry for the ambiguity. No, I can't see what's playing in the rear DVD player on the front nav screen. But now, I can play a DVD in the front DVD player and have it displayed on the both screens while the car's in motion. That's what I meant.

I wonder if there's a way to play a DVD in the rear player and have it show up on both screens. The rear player seems more compatible to home-made DVDs.So how do you get the RSE to display what is playing on the front DVD? ?Obviously I haven't tried it yet. Thanks.

Terpnut: though I've never searched for a Starbucks yet I did use my favorite command ("I'm Hungry") while driving back from Florida to search out restaurants close to my route. That worked rather well.

I do think it's silly that you can zoom in/out, scroll around and turn on/off the POI icons but are locked out from other options.Haven't really played too much with the Nav system's voice commands but it seems that the voice commands can access the POI but the buttons do not?

So how do you get the RSE to display what is playing on the front DVD? ?Obviously I haven't tried it yet. Thanks.
hit the "Source" button until "Front DVD" appears. The source button toggles DVD -> FRONT DVD -> AUX.

You can use voice commands to search POI's - yeah. I did that for food, banks and gas stations to date.

What is 'aux' used for. This seems to indicate you can add a device - is that true?

What is 'aux' used for. This seems to indicate you can add a device - is that true?
That's for the Rear DVD player located behind the front seats. We were all hoping to add an mp3 player to the front system but that looks unlikely without an FM transmitter.

hit the "Source" button until "Front DVD" appears. The source button toggles DVD -> FRONT DVD -> AUX.I see. I've been trying to find an output selection option from the front DVD, but you are saying to choose the input source from the RSE itself. As you can probably tell, I've only touched the RSE once (just to make sure it played a DVD), and I don't read manuals. :rolleyes: Thanks! :D

You can use voice commands to search POI's - yeah. I did that for food, banks and gas stations to date.I finally tried the voice commands. The computer only recognizes my commands correctly about 75% of the time--must be my voice. :rolleyes2

Regardless of whether I use voice commands or the touchscreen, the safety still prevents me from starting a new or changing an existing autoroute or route guidance. As an example, say I set route guidance to go from my home to the mall. But on the way there (while driving!), I want add a waypoint dynamically to stop and get gas or get something to eat. No-can-do in the SRX.:banghead:

A GPS/Nav system-nut coworker guessed that Magellan OEM's the Cadillac Nav System. One site says it's a Denso (http://www.autonav2000.com/Compare/Compare2.htm). When I asked my sales rep, he said he did not know. But when I specifically asked whether it was a Magellan OEM unit, he said "Yeah, that's it!". As for tips, hacks and other things, as of right now, I can't find anything.

I have a few things that I am specifically focused on:

1. Determining the OEM and model of the unit (is it Magellan?).
:)I would guess the OEM is Denso. They have at web site at http://nav-gm.denso.co.jp/index.html which makes look like they are supplying the Cadillac nav system. If you click on the North American or Europe Map icons the next page has a Frequently Asked Questions icon. The FAQ has a lot of good info. (Not as much as this thread, but still good.:) )

Thanks George. Definitely a useful source of added information.

What is that you guys are trying to do with the Nav system that cannot be done at present....and pls don't flame me for being stupid :)

What is that you guys are trying to do with the Nav system that cannot be done at present....and pls don't flame me for being stupid :)Have you noticed all the things you CAN'T DO with the Nav System once the vehicle is in motion? Most Nav Systems (but not the SRX's) allow a user to turn OFF this "safety feature". I cite a specific example of an important use I can't do because of this "feature" three posts up.

I find it ironic how the SRX's Nav System won't allow you to ROUTE when you are moving! This is one of the most useful and powerful features of the nav system!

I can't change my route in my Porsche Nav system when I'm moving. mor could I in the Mercedes Comand system. Maybe it's strictly a potential liability issue that the auto mfrs are afraid of. I'm assuming that Acura/Lexus/Honda, etc. all have the change while moving feature. I never checked. Bought the SRX primarily for the OnStar and 3watt voice activated phone.

Gents thanx for all your information--hope to get a SRX for my wife
I was able to get into diag. mode in my XLR but it would not accept the code u have indicated b4 that works for the SRX--do any of u know the XLR code?

:) I am purchasing 2004 CTS this weekend with DVD Nav. Does anyone know if the codes for SRX NAV will work for CTS? Does anyone know if one can change route while driving a CTS. Thanks very much.

drewhat1999@yahoo.com

All that I can say, is that those secrets combinations and codes don't work on my European version of CTS, luxury + navigation...
I have to find some Euro-CTS-Lovers :devil:

I would guess the OEM is Denso. They have at web site at http://nav-gm.denso.co.jp/index.html which makes look like they are supplying the Cadillac nav system. If you click on the North American or Europe Map icons the next page has a Frequently Asked Questions icon. The FAQ has a lot of good info. (Not as much as this thread, but still good.:) )At last Dallas Meeting, it was indicated to us that Cadillac currently utilizes 4 different Navigation systems [1) Deville & Seville {Denso}, 2) Escalades, 3) XLR and SRX, and 4) CTS], each by a *different* manufacturer. The Deville & Seville contract expires in 2005, & with the redesign of those platforms, it's planned to go with the contract on SRX & XLR. The CTS contract (IIRC) ends in 2006, at which time Cadillac plans to use only the current SRX & XLR manufacturer - Escalades will stay with their current manufacturer as they are across the board in the GM truck line...

Well that's certainly interesting. When we test drove the XLR the similarities between the NAV systems were obvious, but I would've thought that the CTS also shared the same system. Thanks for the info.

JoeCaddy, without putting yourself in a bad situation, do you know if there is a way to circumvent the security features that prohibit the user from accessing certain menus for the NAV system when the vehicle is in motion? I would expect there is a way since we all know that you can easily get past that pesky "No DVD Image While Driving" protection.

Any other tricks? Like vehicle diagnosis (ie. Toyota Sienna system - also made by Denso). Anyone come across anything interesting?

At last Dallas Meeting, it was indicated to us that Cadillac currently utilizes 4 different Navigation systems [1) Deville & Seville {Denso}, 2) Escalades, 3) XLR and SRX, and 4) CTS], each by a *different* manufacturer. The Deville & Seville contract expires in 2005, & with the redesign of those platforms, it's planned to go with the contract on SRX & XLR. The CTS contract (IIRC) ends in 2006, at which time Cadillac plans to use only the current SRX & XLR manufacturer - Escalades will stay with their current manufacturer as they are across the board in the GM truck line...

Please explain how u do get through the no watch DVD while driving issue...would be appreciated!

Please explain how u do get through the no watch DVD while driving issue...would be appreciated!Please read this thread from the beginning as all the details are there!

I can't change my route in my Porsche Nav system when I'm moving. mor could I in the Mercedes Comand system. Maybe it's strictly a potential liability issue that the auto mfrs are afraid of. I'm assuming that Acura/Lexus/Honda, etc. all have the change while moving feature. I never checked. Bought the SRX primarily for the OnStar and 3watt voice activated phone.Knowing what I know now, I might never have gotten the OEM Nav System. Perhaps since you have never had this capability, you don't even know what you are missing. As for liability, I don't understand why nearly every portable nav unit manufacturer allows their user to disable the "safety" but vehicle manufacturers should be worried? If I am going to sue, I have a far better case taking GM to task for putting in radios or climate controls as they are far more likely to "cause" driver distraction and accidents. But they don't "safety" lock the radio or climate controls do they? This is because we all know that the DRIVER IS RESPONSIBLE for his/her actions and not the vehicle or its suppliers. No difference to me. Rant over.

thanx for all the information -- it works in the XLR--
I would like to use the Nav system when moving like all of u--anyone have the answere yet?

Agreed. It all comes down to the driver and his/her own responsibility. Locking out menu options will not ensure safe driving. In fact, I'm much more likely to get distracted searching through radio stations than I am doing a quick view switch from 2d to 3d for instance.

I really hope there is a way to bypass this "security" feature. Someone out there knows something - they're just not sharing, yet.

I haven't checked because my SRX is not available, but is the ability to change the Nav system stop when the shifter is put into D, or does it lock out when the car actually starts to move??? Someone?? :) Does it just work in P, or will it work in N? Could the car be rolling in N and have the change functions work?

When you come to a stop at a red light the menu becomes available. So it actually has to do with motion and not the position of the shifter.


I haven't checked because my SRX is not available, but is the ability to change the Nav system stop when the shifter is put into D, or does it lock out when the car actually starts to move??? Someone?? :) Does it just work in P, or will it work in N? Could the car be rolling in N and have the change functions work?

That's right. The "safety" feature engages when there is any vehicle motion. My guess is it disengages the safety on when the GPS-based vehicle position has not changed for 3-4 seconds. If I'm right, the "safety" engages even when the vehicle is being towed, in Neutral gear, etc.

Just tried the '1791' code to see how DVD's would play while driving - works great! Its just a matter of time before we have all the secrets cracked...

Well, having been the one to start this thread, I thought I would give an update. I took my SRX to the dealer, who verified my assertion that the Nav system was frequently not seeing the satellites. It turns out that the antenna is integrated into the unit and therefore is just below the dashboard, so there's no separate antenna to check. They took the unit out and replaced it, and the error was still there. They then took a new SRX off the lot with a Nav system and drove it around, and that one had the malfunction too!:hmm:


They called Cadillac tech support, and got the response that Cadillac hadn't heard of any systematic malfunction in the SRX Nav system. They then arranged for a rep to come in on Monday to discuss it. They have fully acknowledged the problem at the dealer level, and share my frustration with not being able to fix it. They promise that it will get fixed. :worship:

I asked the technician if there were any hidden diagnostics or tweaks available in the system a la the DVD one we've seen. He said there were none, that Caddy had taken a decision to reduce the costs of the units by eliminating this sort of function, and that it would have made his job a lot easier if there were, since about the only thing he can do to troubleshoot the Nav unit is to replace it entirely. He said it would be nice to see what the unit is actually thinking, but there's no way to do it. I asked him to quiz the rep for more info.

If anyone else out there is having a problem where the Nav system doesn't know where it is, then this may be part of a design flaw, or a bad lot of electronics. You may want to let your dealer know that you're not alone. I'll keep everyone posted. :cheers:

P.S.: I don't really want to watch a DVD while I'm driving, I'm too busy eating a big mac, taking phone calls, and playing with XM satellite radio. However, I would like to play music off a DVD, since such a disc would hold a hell of a lot more tunes than a CD. Anyone tried this?

Two more things I forgot to mention:
1) The separate Onstar GPS system had the SRX's location exactly right all the time.
2) I had tested the nav system versus a portable Garmin Streetpilot, and the Nav system could not see the requisite three satellites even when the Garmin saw as many as seven.

My travels from Chicago to Florida and back toom me through some areas where one would suspect bad coverage and yet the system never lost its location. I agree that not having an external antenna might be a bit of an oversight. I wonder if there is a way of utilizing the OnStar antenna to guide the NAV system.

I know there are quite a few websites out there that provide information on hacking your OnStar and utilizing its GPS capabalities with the use of a laptop. If that can be done maybe you could also hook it up to the NAV system.

I'm glad to hear that the dealership is in your corner. Classy.

1. Matt-I have not had any noticeable problems with the Nav System's GPS positioning--good weather and bad, DC urban and MD suburb driving. Of course, without a GPS or system diagnostics screen, who can tell exactly how well the Nav System's GPS is actually performing!?

2. As for playing music from the DVD, do you want to play digital music, e.g. MP3 or WMA files, from the front DVD? I think this would require the correct decoder/codec from the DVD drive firmware which I would assume is not supported. Again, if the Nav System OEM provided a firmware upgrade capability, this would be possible. These firmware upgrades could also fix or add other features such as disabling that dreaded safety and adding other functions. I can't believe the Nav System OEM did not build in some firmware fix/upgrade method (via the dealer or not).

3. Riff-As the Nav System and OnStar are separate GPS units, I would think it is not feasible to "share" an antenna. Anyhow, if the OEM Nav System has an input for an external antenna, wouldn't GM have hooked up something in the first place?

Purely on a lark I emailed the Director of Communications of GM regarding using the NAV system when the car is moving. I knew nothing would come of it, but at least he answered me promptly...on a Sunday, no less. He didn't say it couldn't be done...just to be careful. Maybe there is a way! :)
______________________________________
Mr. Watson:

I agree completely, "great car!". I hope that it continues to provide the
best on-road experience that you've ever experienced.

Regarding your question, our driving policy at GM is "eyes on the road,
hands on the wheel". I can understand that it would be helpful to provide
this system capability for the passenger, unfortunately the consequence is
that drivers without passengers would be enticed to interact with the
system. I do not have a lead qualified to alter the system, but before you
do, please consider the consequences.

Enjoy the drive.

Jeff Kuhlman
Director, Communications
Cadillac




doncapecod@comcas (http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/4067B0E9000C9B57000048D52200763704FF9B909C9A8F9E9C 9190?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=doncapecod%40comcas&sid=c0)
t.net To: jeffrey.kuhlman@gm.com (http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/4067B0E9000C9B57000048D52200763704FF9B909C9A8F9E9C 9190?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=jeffrey%2Ekuhlman%40gm%2Ecom&sid=c0)

cc:
03/27/2004 03:46 Subject: SRX Nav system
PM






Hi: I'm an 04 SRX owner and on the wild chance you can help me (or at
least give me a lead), I'm looking for a way for a passenger to use the Nav
system while moving.

Can you help at least give me a lead???

Great car!
Don Watson
doncapecod@comcast.net (http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/4067B0E9000C9B57000048D52200763704FF9B909C9A8F9E9C 9190?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=doncapecod%40comcast%2Enet&sid=c0)

Terpnut: You're probably right. I was thinking out loud - never a good idea.

Don: that does leave the door open for a possible workaround. I wonder if there is possibly another PIN # that disables the NAV protection instead of the DVD protection?

I believe there is a better than even chance that there is a way to bypass some existing or even enable other, hidden features. The reason is that the OEM Nav System manufacturer probably does not sell their Nav Systems solely to Cadillac--they have other customers! Thus if their software developers are competent (BTW, this is MY field of expertise :) ), they would write their software/firmware (the guts behind the Nav System) to be modular and customizable. That way, each vehicle manufacturer can deploy the same essential OEM Nav System & software with whatever features they want turn on or off (e.g. Cadillac logo on startup, turn-on safety, integrate display with radio functions, etc.).

Denso also makes the system in the Toyota minivan. It has this cool option where if you flash your parking lights while holding down an info button (that the SRX doesn't seem to have) you get into the vehicle diagnostics mode, and it gives you a lot of info on the car and performance. I tried to do it in the SRX but it didn't work. I guess Denso has a few systems that they offer to the prospective buyers. I wonder if there are any such backdoors for the system in the SRX and who will be the first to get their dealer to talk. :)

...who will be the first to get their dealer to talk. :) :yeah:

I can envision it now: All Caddy NAV owners clicking/flicking/picking/poking everything in sight! Maybe has something to do with seat position or perhaps glove box open---Hummm---must be 50,000 combinations or more possibilities!

Right now, my only concern is getting my hands on my ordered SRX, but I'll be joining in on the search for the mysterious combination as soon as I do!! :drinker

You know what, you're not that far off. I spent about 15 minutes in the garage playing with my headlights trying to find that combination. Nothing worked. I did find that you can drive pretty fast in reverse and still change the NAV settings. I did expect it to work in neutral but not in reverse. I guess going backwards while staring at the NAV screen is safer than when going forwards.

The Toyota Sienna and Lexus IS300 have that headlight trick I wrote about above. (System by Denso)

Umm. I can't remember where I read that the system in the SRX was made by denso. Has anyone confirmed that? Or is that only for the other models (seville/deville) ?

Umm. I can't remember where I read that the system in the SRX was made by denso. Has anyone confirmed that? Or is that only for the other models (seville/deville) ?In Post #55 (earlier in this thread), miscreant stated that Cadillac used four different Nav System OEM's. He said that the Deville and Seville used Densos, but the SRX and XLR used a different, still unknown OEM.

I am not sure that info. is correct I have a 2003 sts with Nav it it operates the same as my XLR and looks the same also-and the same code works on it too

I have to get my oil changed this week so I'll bug my dealer about these topics. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky - he seemed very willing to share "secrets" when selling. Then again, now that I spent the cash he might suddenly clam up.

I did find that you can drive pretty fast in reverse and still change the NAV settings. I did expect it to work in neutral but not in reverse. I guess going backwards while staring at the NAV screen is safer than when going forwards.I tested the Nav System in reverse and the safety engages within a few seconds. My driveway is pretty long so perhaps you did not have the vehicle continuously moving for the requisite 3-4 seconds.

I actually went half a block. Hmm, that's very weird. I remember driving forward then coastin in neutral at which point the menu became available. I then switched to R and drove literally half a block in R having switched the view to 3D and then back. Hmm. Fluke?

Here's how I tested this. After the Nav System boots up, I pushed "Route" which, when motionless, shows all 5 or 6 functions enabled. I put the truck into Reverse and slowly backed down my driveway. 3-4 seconds later and near the bottom of my driveway, all functions except for the "Route Preferences" became disabled. This is the standard behavior of my Nav System whenever it is in motion--forward or backward.

An update to the update: My dealer said the antenna on/in the nav unit is defective, as are a number of others out there on the road. Cadillac is releasing a new antenna for the unit in May. When the dealer puts it in, I'll see if there's any more dirt on nav system codes.

Glad they figured out and addressed your problem!

have asked my dealer and tech but no one will give me the way to use the nav system while the car is moving any updates from any of u?

Has anyone tried all the number combinations starting with 000 to 9999 to see if a match is found?

I'd venture to say that there are other combinations that would open other options. Perhaps all those interested could take a block of numbers to see if any discoveries are made? Pehaps 100 number blocks? Thoughts??

Obviously you late comers haven't read the entire thread from page 1.

Let me re-cap:

Push & hold the musical note for 3 seconds until you get the code screen. Enter "1791". press enter.

You are now enabled to watch--ILLEGALLY--DVD's while you drive. :worship:

Dude it's not dvd's we are trying to watch -- we r trying to use the nav system while moving vs. coming to a complete stop to gain access

DudeS, I know! If you read MY post it explicitly states "other combinations that would open other options", thus implying there is a known combination, in this case the 1791 pin.

My point being, if the 1791 pin allows for viewing of TV while in motion it is safe to assume that another pin would allow the NAV to be fully operable while in motion. Afterall, the fact that a diag interface exists would imply much more usefulness than just for DVD viewing.

So, to reiterate, has anyone tried one-by-one the different combos to possibly open up other options...perhaps a team can be assembled. I had to stop so my wife could find the number to a local resturant....PITA!

My sincerest appologies, DUDES!

I'll volunteer for at least 50, if not 100 #'s.

BTW, if something gets "wacko", will resetting to system defaults correct it?

You guys know I have been the No. 1 complainer about the Nav system "safety" and am standing ready to contribute my efforts to disable it!:bouncy:

I'm game too. Someone assign the # blocks and we'll get crackin' !

Let's Do It...Here or a new thread??

Bad news..the combinations are from 999 to 99,999, that's 99,000 combinations!! I suspect we can skip the 3 digit numbers.

It will take up to five numbers! Yikes! Where's that Chap that provided the code to begin with? Maybe he'll give us a range to start with!

I'm still game, we can assign in 50s and go from there. With enough people it wouldn't be too bad. Perhaps the other cars with the same system will be willing to help out also.

I thought there were only 4 spaces; therefore 1000 thru 9999= 8999 combos (unless there could be 0's first meaning 9999 combos. That's only 100 people @ 100 each.

Again, what happens when the unthinkable happens, and the whole unit starts smokin' ?

Where's Joe??

I wish..there ar 5 spaces, and it will accept pins starting at 000. Although I think a 3 digit pin is unlikely. But u never know.

Joe? Where are you Joe? We need your help Joe?

Hi, it's "dumbguy" again. When testing code numbers to see if Nav will operate when moving do you put a code in when the car is stopped and then move the SRX, or can you try the different codes when moving.

Reason I ask is that I'm driving from Florida to Cape Cod in a couple of weeks and if it involves not stopping each time, I can test codes for 25 hours :) Someone let me know. Don

You can do it while driving. In fact I usually get into the map try to make a change and keep trying the different pins and see if the buttons become active.

OK, so you're in charge of 2000-10,000 :P I hope we figure it out soon, I had to stop the car to find a starbucks this morning...

How do you go about finding a Starbuck's - just out of curiosity? Would saying "I'm Hungry" display a Starbucks even though it's not really a place to eat?

Hmm...didn't think of that :( I did the following:


Route
Enter Destination
All Location?? (the little bridge icon)
Type in the name "Starbucks"
List and pick one by looking at the miles.
I had about 80 locations come up. One was 800 miles away!!!:bighead: What's funny is the way they name themselves. They get broken up into groups: Starbucks, starbucks coffee, starbucks cof, starbucks coffee co, etc..

What's cool is that I know use that as my 411 (directory assistance), once you select the place, a little info button comes up that will show the full address and phone number.:coolgleam

Regarding the safetly lockout feature, here are my thoughts...

1. In the software of the nav system there is a set of features that will always be available, moving or not, and another set that will be disabled when the vehicle is moving.

2. How does the nav system know that the vehicle is moving. Well, let's think.
a. It could use a changing GPS signal, but this is not likely because GPS reception cannot be considered a reliable enough criteria. For arguments sake, lets just forget about this one.
b. It could use a vehicle LAN signal to determine the transmission gear selection position and lockout a feature set if the car is not in park. Listening to the experiences of the previous posters, however, this does not appear to be the case. Even if this is the case, it's the hardest to deal with because faking the gear message is probably dificult and might make more important parts of the system mad.
c. The last, and most likely method from what I can guess, would be to use the VSS (vehicle speed signal) information to determine if the car is moving. This is probably also how the nav system is able to so smoothly (well, kinda) update the movement of the car on the map. The VSS is a pulse of varying frequency depending on the speed of the car. So it makes sense that for a speed range of let's say 0-150mph, slow speeds would result in garbage VSS pulses because of the long period between these pulses. So maybe the nav won't respond well to pulses under, say, 4 or 5 miles per hour. This would match pretty well to the experiences of the previous posters. Forward, reverse, it doesn't matter, the speed it just a pulse, there must be another message (i don't know, maybe that gear selector message) that will let the nav know that it should move the car icon backwards on the map. Forget about reverse, we don't really need to use the nav features which are locked out while in motion while going backwards faster than 5 miles per hour, i think we could all agree on that.

3. Removing the method of vehicle motion detection that controls the lockout feature will let you use whatever you want. Great, how? HERE'S HOW:
Find the VSS wire that goes to the nav. Cut it. Install a simple switch that will "open" or "close" the line to the nav. See if by flipping the switch you will be able to use the lock-out features. Keep in mind that by "turning off" the switch, the nav probably won't track the car quite as well. So, here's how you'd have to use it...

Mount the switch neatly on the cluster or dash area of your car. When you want to use the lockout features, flip the switch. Do your thing. Set the switch back. Yes, it's pretty ghetto but I'd rather not sit on my ass waiting for some OEM supplier jackass with no balls to leak some little trick that probably doesn't even exist anyways.

4. Alternatives, change the code in the nav system to disable this feature. Good luck. Find a "secret" mode that will allow you to override the lockout. Also, good luck.


I drive a 1993 Dodge Caravan. I don't have a nav system. If anyone would like to send me one, that would be pretty cool but I'd probably break it within the first five minutes.

Peace.

The SRX's nav system probably does not have any relation to the transmission, as it will enable or disable the safety while in "Drive" depending on the vehicle's speed. So clearly, the nav system has some sort of speed detection--most likely the GPS. If however it is the "VSS", it certainly would be possible that disabling it would do the trick. Of course, we would then lose one of the best features of an integrated, OEM nav system--it's "dead reckoning" capability that allows it to continue functioning for short periods in poor weather, cities with large buildings and other obstructions (e.g. New York or Chicago), or in tunnels.

Of course, we would then lose one of the best features of an integrated, OEM nav system--it's "dead reckoning" capability that allows it to continue functioning for short periods in poor weather, cities with large buildings and other obstructions (e.g. New York or Chicago), or in tunnels.

Only for the short time when the switch is "open" and you're playing with the lockout features. Then, when the switch is "closed" the system will update the vehicle's location with the GPS data and continue on its merry way.

I see what you are saying now--Close the switch only when a user needs to disable the "safety" so he/she user can access the full functionality. Then open the switch to restore the navigation system's default state (including the dead reckoning).

I see what you are saying now--Close the switch only when a user needs to disable the "safety" so he/she user can access the full functionality. Then open the switch to restore the navigation system's default state (including the dead reckoning).

Bingo, bango, ghetto!

RE: NAV in motion. I posted a reply in the other thread saying that I tried 0000-0100 and nothing came up. Let’s keep trying.

I have six monitors connect to a FM transmitter plus I have a device call Omnifi which is a 20g HD so I can store my music. I love it..

I had this done a stereo outlet in west covina, CA 626-9609947

Anyone know how to get into diagnostics on a GMC Danali or youkon system? Or know any info at all?
I just got a 2004 with a great indash unit... I spend a lot of time at a stand still and would love to add the feature....
Thanks!

try the latest cod posted here...
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13242

Thanks for the link... but I can't even get into diagnostics.... I have held the musical note on my GMC denali's unit (I assumed the hot key was the same) and nothing, it just sits there.... is there another hot key or button sequence to enter diag, or am I missing something.... then where do you type the numbers?

Thanks!

GM uses numerous different OEM navigation systems so this thread is applicable only to the 2004 SRX's navigation system (or other GM vehicles that might use the same Denso OEM system). So you are outta luck.

It is always possible that you had extremely bad luck, i.e. satellite went out of service, only two others available, extremely bad weather, etc. simultaneously. For GPS updates, see
http://www.schriever.af.mil/GpsSupportCenter/advisories.htm. Note one satellite was out yesterday. Usually though, I can pickup at least 7-9 so that should not be a problem since you only need 3-4 minimum. The vast majority of the time, I can access 8 or more. Thus it is VERY unlikely that the availability or access to the GPS satellites is your problem.

I agree that the dealer is full of $h*t. I know that DOD can make the satellites' transponder accuracy better for military versus commercial purposes, but I am not aware of a way to turn it "off". More likely, your external antenna's connection simply came loose or a malfunction with the Nav system itself.

BTW, if you take it into the dealer, could you please inquire as to whether there is a new DVD or system firmware update for this Nav System? Specifically, I have problems with incorrect/bad routing, no GPS screen, no system options (such as undoing the safety override), and other issues. Thank you!
No, The dealer is NOT full of $h*T. The GPS systems is owned by the Department of Defense. It is in place for Military use first and formost. IT CAN BE TURNED OFF... IT CAN BE RESET TO THROW OFF ACCURACY. It does not happen often but it can happen and I have seen it. Particularly during large deployments, tactical operations or during periods of high risk in this country. More often than not it will not be turned off but skewed so that the directions for all practical purposes don't make sense.

The Civilian population are simply users. No matter how much it helps, or saves lives. It is still a Military tool which we are allowed to use most of the time. The dealer was correct....

I have replied to your statement regarding credibility of the dealer, you may want to look at it. With that said, when it failed, did you look at the display showing how many satellites had been acquired? This can help if you need to see the dealer. I would wait until it happens again, look at the satellite display, how many have been acquired, do you get basic information such as elevation, speed, Long and Lat.... It really is possible though that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you system, it was just tweaked for awhile by DOD.

2004 CTS.. If you look at the map in the booklet attached to the DVD cover, you will find that the map at least comes from NAVTECH. I also understand that (again 2004 CTS), the CD is version 6. NAVTECH, NAVTEQ and a new company just announced supplying the Lexus, handles 90% of the OEM GPS systems in this country. I would be willing to bet that Garmen or any of the hand held companies including Delorme do NOT supply the automotive manufacturers. I have seen some CD's for GM products available on the internet. I would be cautious when ordering them. I also understand that Cadillac (at least) possibly rest of GM, changed GPS providers recently.

wr

fyi...

NAVTECH just changed their name to NAVTEQ. They're trying to go public soon, could have something to do with that.

Another major player in providing map data, TeleAtlas, just bought a third named GDT.

NO, you cannot make changes to the NAV system while moving, same lockouts at XLR but there appear from what I have read on this thread to be differences in functions and buttons

No, The dealer is NOT full of $h*T. The GPS systems is owned by the Department of Defense. It is in place for Military use first and formost. IT CAN BE TURNED OFF... IT CAN BE RESET TO THROW OFF ACCURACY. It does not happen often but it can happen and I have seen it. Particularly during large deployments, tactical operations or during periods of high risk in this country. More often than not it will not be turned off but skewed so that the directions for all practical purposes don't make sense.

The Civilian population are simply users. No matter how much it helps, or saves lives. It is still a Military tool which we are allowed to use most of the time. The dealer was correct....While the GPS was originally developed by the DOD for military purposes, it is no longer so. It is now officially a fully operational system for both military AND civilian usage. While there still exists two levels of GPS accuracy: SPS and PPS, the DOD no longer has the authority to degrade the GPS signal (known as selective availability and stopped four years ago, see http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/faq/gpsfaq.htm).

Thus I stand by my original point: if you are having consistent problems with your navigation system, it is BS for a dealer to immediately blame the GPS system (i.e. satellite availability, transponder failure, ground system troubles, DOD shutdowns, selective availability, etc.). It is 1,000 times more likely that you've got a problem with your vehicle's navigation system (i.e. firmware, mapping software, antenna, wiring or GPS unit).

Hi

Could you explain how to do the 1791? I am a new member of the forum and need help. I have had the new SRX for two days so I ma still new to the terminology. You can reply or my email is Gmanthos@houston.rr.com
Thx

george

Hi

I am not sure whether I asked you already....can you pls instruct me how to change whatever to make the NAV accessible while moving? I have had the SRX two days and am already annoyed with that feature.

thx

george

gmanthos@houston.rr.com

The 1791 trick only allows you to play a movie in the front DVD while the vehicle is in motion, but does not override the Nav system's "safety" feature. There are many forum participants working on finding out how to do the latter. To enter the diagnostics mode and use the 1791 override, please READ the first page of this post as the instructions are there.

Hi

I am not sure whether I asked you already....can you pls instruct me how to change whatever to make the NAV accessible while moving? I have had the SRX two days and am already annoyed with that feature.

thx

george

gmanthos@houston.rr.comGeorge,

As you are new to forums, just another friendly suggestion: NEVER post your email address as spammers frequently will use "web crawlers" to spider their way through web sites and forums looking for valid email address to add to their spamming lists. Try to use the forum's PM features for one-on-one communications OR, if you must post your email address, do so "cryptically", e.g. "gmanthos at houston dot rr dot com".

i have a freind with navi in his infiniti. he was driving from L.A to Las Vegas and while he was driving there his navi some how was scrwed up the road was going straight but the road was going towards the left. about an ahour later it was back to normal. on his drive back it did it at the exact same place. when he called the dealer about it they said yeah it does that cause supposely because of AREA 51, he even tried putting that in as one of his destinations on his navi and it wont eve let him put in the word 'AREA'.

Not really sure how the previous post applies but glad you brought this thread back up. After almost 2 months with my SRX I am getting VERY annoyed. Can't I just agree that I understand it's dangerous to use the Nav while driving and all that other stuff I must agree too -- can't I agee now, once and for all, for ever and ever, and not have to press that stupid I AGREE button every time I get into my car???

Also....I want to be able to make changes to my destinations and just USE my Nav system while driving....or at least let my passenger do it. I hate the restriction!!!!

Ah....glad I got that off my chest!

Yes, this thread has been awful quiet for the past few months--guess nobody ever hacked the system! I agree that the frustration is only getting worse with this problem. BTW, I assume the disclaimer and "safeties" are still the same on the '05s?

ttt

I have 05 SRX build date 06/2004 and everything is the same

LMM, does the 1791 code work in your 05?