: Used CTS-V vs. BMW 3-series (335i) or M3



smithsonga
02-13-07, 10:19 AM
Everyone

Help me make a decision here.

I could be in need of a new car (long story, have company car now) and thus am investigating my options.

New option is lease a new 335i coupe. <$600/month. Nice ride. long warranty, free scheduled maintenance.

Used are a few others. CTSV and M3. M3 is higher priced and really not any faster than the 335i...but I could get convertible.

CTS-V is intriquing. But to buy used, I want the car to be $30k or less so...which seems to be the 2004 era. I want payments < $600. For finance, that means 25k max at 5.5% for 48 months.

A couple concerns: 2004 was early in the CTS-V life. Any durabiliity issues?
I dont like all the axle hop comments but could spend a little money on aftermarket for it if necessary.
Warranty...most will be close to out of warranty..could buy extended or certified maybe.

Thoughts? I expect a bit of CTS bias of course, but let er rip.

theloanman219
02-13-07, 10:33 AM
V

nuff said

smithsonga
02-13-07, 10:51 AM
wow...i also just saw the vishnu 335i mods for more HP....hmmmm....

theloanman219
02-13-07, 10:56 AM
The V is a better over all car. It is truely a 4 door corvette. It is the Best car I have owned. And it you are looking at mods thats all that needs to be said is Maggie. There are guys here with more then 600hp. And they still handle like a cadillac. More then I can say for the bimmer.

ctsvflorida
02-13-07, 11:34 AM
I don't think you have any concern for more power if you are thinking of a 335i or even an M3 for that matter, so I don't think a magie is anissue here.

Here's an example of what transpired on the GTO board and I'll try and make it short. A guy was asking about getting a V or and Audi S8 or rs4. I wrote and told him that he would think there is a bias here but read on. I said I have driven most every car including $110k 55's, most all of them, and more etc. Simply put, I said to go and drive the V and you won't look back...bias or no bias! He drove three cars the next day, a V, an Audi or two, and something else, maybe a Bimmer I think,...he bought the V! Nuff said!

Get a certified V so warranty is not an issue and I have an '04 and there are no more or less issues than an '05 which is all the normal crap you've read!

Go drive a V sir and get back to us! If you would like to read the posts on the GTO forum then let me know and I will direct you to the thread.

thebigjimsho
02-13-07, 12:02 PM
Many used Vs may have extended warranties. Modding the V gives you almost infinite possibilities. I love BMWs too, though. The 335i is intriguing. But that car is also in its first year.

I'd say just drive them both and go for what you like. Can't go wrong either way.

Luna.
02-13-07, 01:17 PM
Everyone

Help me make a decision here.

I could be in need of a new car (long story, have company car now) and thus am investigating my options.

New option is lease a new 335i coupe. <$600/month. Nice ride. long warranty, free scheduled maintenance.

Used are a few others. CTSV and M3. M3 is higher priced and really not any faster than the 335i...but I could get convertible.

CTS-V is intriquing. But to buy used, I want the car to be $30k or less so...which seems to be the 2004 era. I want payments < $600. For finance, that means 25k max at 5.5% for 48 months.

A couple concerns: 2004 was early in the CTS-V life. Any durabiliity issues?
I dont like all the axle hop comments but could spend a little money on aftermarket for it if necessary.
Warranty...most will be close to out of warranty..could buy extended or certified maybe.

Thoughts? I expect a bit of CTS bias of course, but let er rip.

I believe a 335i convertible is coming out this Spring/Summer.

Tough call, as I considered the M3 vs the V as well (the 335i wasn't out yet). Drive them all if you can and see if that helps

v-ape
02-13-07, 01:38 PM
Dont forget all the maintenance you'll be performing with a M3...

$10/quart of oil (10W60!!!!)
Major service every 15k miles
Valve jobs every 30k miles
Plus it MUST use >91 octane.

I like the V's versatility.

thebigjimsho
02-13-07, 01:49 PM
Dont forget all the maintenance you'll be performing with a M3...

$10/quart of oil (10W60!!!!)
Major service every 15k miles
Valve jobs every 30k miles
Plus it MUST use >91 octane.

I like the V's versatility.I believe BMW offers free maintenance service for a finite number of miles.

Staxxin
02-13-07, 02:12 PM
I had a 2003 M3 and it was far more reliable than my 2005 V. The only time it saw the dealer was for oil changes. I wish I could say the same for my V. Make sure you look very closely into the repair record on a used V. On a positive note, the V is much faster, roomier, and handles about the same. The V is a fabulous car but that doesn’t come without its issues. The saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

svassh
02-13-07, 02:42 PM
I had a 2003 M3 and it was far more reliable than my 2005 V. The only time it saw the dealer was for oil changes. I wish I could say the same for my V. Make sure you look very closely into the repair record on a used V. On a positive note, the V is much faster, roomier, and handles about the same. The V is a fabulous car but that doesn’t come without its issues. The saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

I strongly considered a 2002 M5 but opted for the 2005 V with the Cadillac certification. Surely with warranty coverage I couldn't go wrong. If I had to do it all over again I'm not sure I'd make the same decision.

I love the car but current and likely future frustrations with warranty coverage and Caddy dealers have really soured this purchase.

Leeman
02-13-07, 03:17 PM
My 2002 M3 SMG saw the shop a lot for quality issues. My 2005 CTS-V has never been to the dealer. Your mileage may vary.

-- Lee

pmsteinm
02-13-07, 03:38 PM
We placed an order for my wife's 335i the other day. So in about 6-8 weeks I should be able to post a CTS-V vs. 335i comparison...assuming my wife lets me drive "her" car:tisk:.

We did test drive a 335i w/auto (she ordered the manual) and I want to say it might have seemed faster than the V...but I think that's just because it was an unfamilar car. Either way, my wife & I can race the 2 to see which is faster.

I'm looking forward to the 2009 V...not that I'll be able to get it:thehand:.

smithsonga
02-13-07, 04:01 PM
Thanks Guys.

Interesting comments to consider.

If I go BMW...I am thinking new 335i leased. Used M3 is much more money to finance, isnt really any faster but probably more high strung ('racey'). Most have 100k powertrain warranties due to an engine issue that they fixed as a recall but it just seems like a much higher strung motor as a long term car.

I would not agree the 335i is more of a drivers car than a CTS-V. Cadillac did a good job tuning the suspension of the CTS-v and you can throw it around. M3 is more race car like than both. CTS is more Corvette like in a brute force way. For example, my dad has a C6 convertible..I drove it and would probably opt for a Boxster S over it due to the nimble more open feel. Corvette is a fast sled, and so is the CTS. That may be the killer there.

Buying used is always such a crap shoot.

I will drive all again to see what pulls my trigger, but at this point leaning 335i lease. Maybe look into that ECU add-on that really adds some more grunt.

Jim

sy1172
02-13-07, 04:14 PM
My bimmer loved the dealership and so far my 05 V is fine. All cars are good, some, even within the same make, are better than others.

PS. by the V, verts are for girls

ctsvflorida
02-13-07, 07:19 PM
The 335i is that fast? Thought only the M cars had the power!

valdeztke
02-13-07, 08:58 PM
I strongly considered a 2002 M5 but opted for the 2005 V with the Cadillac certification. Surely with warranty coverage I couldn't go wrong. If I had to do it all over again I'm not sure I'd make the same decision.

I love the car but current and likely future frustrations with warranty coverage and Caddy dealers have really soured this purchase.

You could always move closer to Lindsay Caddy :)

keeksv
02-13-07, 09:18 PM
The 335i is that fast? Thought only the M cars had the power!
Yeah, watch out for one of those things with a tune/chip or whatever they do to those things--Vishnu Tune? God only knows...look on the BMW boards; or someone here posted a thread with a link about it a while back. I'll try to find it. Twin turbo with no lag allegedly.

valdeztke
02-13-07, 09:24 PM
they aren't even breaking 400rwhp though.

I had one for a few months. I dont think they are faster than a CTS-V but then again I've only drive one and its supercharged.

keeksv
02-13-07, 09:33 PM
they aren't even breaking 400rwhp though.

I had one for a few months. I dont think they are faster than a CTS-V but then again I've only drive one and its supercharged.

I think you'd have a problem without the blower, at the risk of turning this into one of those "which car is faster" threads....

valdeztke
02-13-07, 09:35 PM
I think you'd have a problem without the blower, at the risk of turning this into one of those "which car is faster" threads....

yeah lol

They are nice cars .. and remember in March they come in a hard top vert :)

smithsonga
02-13-07, 09:38 PM
http://www.vishnutuning.com/

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=119485

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/spinaroundtown/07.bmw.335i.coupe/bmw.335i.vishnu.dyno.160.jpg

valdeztke
02-13-07, 10:37 PM
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g88/valdeztke/bmw.jpg


Wow freakin gobs of torque!!!

keeksv
02-13-07, 10:50 PM
Told ya you better watch out:thumbsup:

valdeztke
02-13-07, 10:58 PM
Told ya you better watch out:thumbsup:

:highfive: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g88/valdeztke/GARAGEBANNER.gif

Feffman
02-14-07, 12:07 AM
Smith:

I went through a similar search several months ago after deciding to trade/sell my Audi A8. I looked at the M3 coupe and my wife's comment was (and I quote) "It's too boy racer!". I looked at several other cars including the Audi S6, Maserati Coupe and even a Porsche 911. I kept coming back to the CTS-V for it's fun factor, ability to comfortably hold my family (all 4 of us) and honestly it felt good to buy an American car! That being said, I did buy an extended warranty out to 100K. My dealer experience has been nice (much better then the Audi dealer) and the car has been great so far.

Last note and I'll shut up. I've owned five(5) Lotus Esprits and I can honestly say the V is as much fun as the Lotus.

Mark "Feff" Pfeffer
www.MVPTrackTime.com

wildwhl
02-14-07, 01:16 AM
Sure, as much fun as the Esprit, probably...but that Stinkin' Exige S makes me grin much more than my 500+hp V...though I love them both :D

WW

smithsonga
02-14-07, 08:33 AM
Sure, as much fun as the Esprit, probably...but that Stinkin' Exige S makes me grin much more than my 500+hp V...though I love them both :D

WW

Have to agree here...that Exige S looks incredible.

alcast082
02-14-07, 02:21 PM
:thumbsup: It is also good to consider depreciation if he buys the car. THE V:bighead:
I know of two people neer me with 335i manual , one with the vishnu tune and one stock.
I walked the stock one with out a problem, not badly but easily, on the highway i killed him.
The vishnu one on the other hand took me by a car length and a half:want:
I was very impressed, My car has basic modds, intake, tune and ofcoruse 275 on the rear.
The 335 is a nice car, not impressive to look at unless it has a nice set of aftermarket wheels and a 1 or 2 inch drop.
It gives you a solid 22 to 26 mpg compared to my V, 12 to 16 on average.
The 335 also comes with free maintenance, (even clutches)
The 335 is around the same price but doesn't depreciate as fast.
Interior looks, feel, features. THE 335 wins.
Any how if this was a rational desicion, well then I would have a 335i but :tisk: I own a cts-v because I like it more, I love the pushrod engine, the size of the car, the looks..................:bouncy:

It comes down to PERSONAL DECISION. Let's see what the new supra, is-f,
m3, cts-v will be like in the next years, for now cts-v for me

andy92782
02-14-07, 06:50 PM
For what it's worth.... I recently put a 335i on order after having my '05 V bought back under the lemon law. I'd be happy to share my impressions of it once it arrives and I put some miles on it.

PS - Anyone wanna buy stock, used V wheel+tire for use as a spare? Had a hard time selling it here on the classifieds (no bites, I figured this would be pretty popular!)

Luna.
02-14-07, 07:00 PM
they aren't even breaking 400rwhp though.


Stock CTS-V don't break the 400rwhp barrier either. Tuned, those 335i's were putting down near the same rwhp as CTS-Vs were...ouch.

The linked article said the rwtq was 390. Is that correct? I seem to recall it was about 330-340 post-tune, but perhaps my memory is failing me.

Just put a maggie on a CTS-V and not worry about those regardless... :lildevil:

CTS NV
02-14-07, 08:01 PM
Just curious, why not consider a new V lease if you are considering a 335 lease? I bet you can get a great lease deal on the V right now.

Having owned previous 3-ers and M3's (and having purchased my V with only the e90 330i to compare against), some of my thoughts/opinions are:
- BMW interior materials are much better than current CTS-V
- BMW interior is less driver-oriented since e90/e92 change. V driver information center with gauges and g-meter is informative, NAV has no dreaded i-drive
- BMW seats are much grippier
- BMW feels rock solid, V is decent but not really close
- V should be faster stock vs. stock
- V has a limited slip diff (though a sore spot at that), BMW has too much power for an open diff
- V has gobs of effortless low-end torque (based on my LS2 experience), you'll still need to push a twin-turbo 6
- BMW inline 6 sings a refined note, V growls and has an addictive soundtrack, you may never want to go back from a V-8
- V is really the size of a 5 series, so you are going up a car class
- BMW smallness makes it more nimble, in spite of similar handling performance
- BMW has better fuel economy
- V is more unique

Maybe overall there are more checkmarks in favor of the BMW, but one thing to consider is that 10-15 years ago, BMW was more of an enthusiast brand, whereas today, outside of M-cars, many drivers are status-oriented and care little what's under the hood. I'm starting to see BMW 328/335s at every street corner, piloted by everyone and their mom. With the V, Cadillac caters to the serious enthusiast with a unique offering that you don't see at every street corner...and when you see another V, you will find another enthusiast like yourself...that and this forum are what did it for me.

smithsonga
02-14-07, 08:31 PM
Lease a CTS-V.....I will check into that. Didnt consider it...especially with my GM employee pricing...(father)

mlg
02-14-07, 09:22 PM
drove a 335 today, nice car BUT , given the choice of 335 ,or my v and give up my left nut, id have to say goodbye to leftie... nuf said!

cjones
02-14-07, 11:47 PM
My roommate has a 07 328i and he brought home a 335 loaner from the dealer today so I took it out and beat the hell out of it. It had the paddle shifters. I was pretty impressed. The interior is miles better and it felt just as strong as my 06 CTS-V. Not sure I would go with the auto transmission but it was the nicest auto I've driven. Handled pretty well but I didn't get a chance to push beyond about 75% in the twisties.

With a chip that car would be serious fun. One big draw back is the open diff though I really wasn't having little straight line traction problems and it was about 40 degrees out.

I think the CTS-V looks way better and I like the CTS-V brakes better.

lunarx
02-15-07, 11:37 AM
I just wanted to chime in that the 04's are fine.
I personally have not had any wheel hop, but I don't side-step the clutch like most of the American Muscle Car fans on these boards like to do.

I would take a used, good condition 04 V over a 335 any day.
335 is smaller but still weighs too much for it's size.
Also, I can't get past the econo-box look of the new 3 series.
Old 3 series looked so much better, IMHO.

Your net cost (over 3 years) of buying an 04 V would be sooo much less than leasing a 335.
You will probably loose $13K on a smartly purchased $33K used V.
Leasing a 335 will cost you $20K, before mileage penalties.

austin
02-15-07, 12:26 PM
It's a know fact. Girls love guys that drive BMW's. If your only concern is picking up chicks, and cruis'n around on campus, get the M3. BMW's have more status than a cadillac (As much as it hurts me say so). :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/05/07/notes050704.DTL&nl=fix

thebigjimsho
02-15-07, 12:35 PM
It's a know fact. Girls love guys that drive BMW's. If your only concern is picking up chicks, and cruis'n around on campus, get the M3. BMW's have more status than a cadillac (As much as it hurts me say so). :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/05/07/notes050704.DTL&nl=fix

Sorry, but pimps drive Caddys!:green:

antonn
02-15-07, 01:07 PM
Two notes regarding a tuned 335i:

- Lost warranty: not even an after market warranty will cover your car problems once you mess with ECU.
- Reliability issues due to additional engine/power train stress: I owned a chipped '01 Audi S4 before buying my V and while I didn't have any major issues with it, I've read a lot about blown turbos, fried clutches and such on Audi boards (http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/). Turbo replacement can be quite expensive (see first note).

None of this applies to a used V.

P-Funk
02-15-07, 02:42 PM
Sorry, but pimps drive Caddys!:green:

:word:

antonn
02-15-07, 02:48 PM
Sorry, removed double posting

rand49er
02-15-07, 03:59 PM
... Girls love guys that drive BMW's. ...Those girls are the idiots ... you're better off without them.

jashearer
02-15-07, 04:20 PM
For what it's worth.... I recently put a 335i on order after having my '05 V bought back under the lemon law. I'd be happy to share my impressions of it once it arrives and I put some miles on it.

PS - Anyone wanna buy stock, used V wheel+tire for use as a spare? Had a hard time selling it here on the classifieds (no bites, I figured this would be pretty popular!)

Shot me an e-mail about your wheels and tires.

ShearerJayA at JohnDeere.com

Thanks!
Jay

jashearer
02-15-07, 06:22 PM
never mind Andy... didn't realize it was just 1... I need a set for winter tires...

heavypedal
02-15-07, 06:35 PM
Hey Andy...very interested (at the right price) PMing you now

T