: rebuild a northstar



israel305
01-30-07, 04:20 PM
well has anyone overhaul a northstar engine. and how much did they spend doing it them self.

codewize
01-30-07, 09:55 PM
Here we go again. What are you looking to do with it? Stock rebuild? Save yourself some time and money and buy a new one. I hate to sound mean but this has been covered many times. Most people feel the N* is a disposable engine. I'm not sure I'd take it that far but....

Do a search.

Basically what it comes down to is with the right tools, a lot of time and a lot of experience they can be rebuilt. Many of the parts are difficult to get and it's not fun to do. I would not recommend an inexperienced engine builder tearing down a N*.

I'm sure someone will chime in and argue this but that's my opinion based on what I've seen and heard around here.

AaronZ34
01-30-07, 10:48 PM
Expensive? Certainly.

But hard to do? No more so than a Small Block. It's basically the same, they're just bolts. There's nothing special to the N* that doesn't apply to most every other DOHC engine out there.

TripleblackETC
01-31-07, 08:54 AM
I think if you're talking stock rebuild you would probably be better off just buying a new engine (unless you're looking for a project to work on). I definitely agree with codewize that unless you really know what you're doing, you'll save some time and headaches just buying a new engine.

codewize
01-31-07, 09:10 AM
It is just bolts, you're right but it's by no means a small block Chevy.

There are many more specialized components with very important tolerances. There is a very unique and important honing pattern, so far duplicated by no one. I'm told it's in the FSM but I also read a lot about no one being able to do it successfully.

The half-case in itself is a whole new venture. Can it be done, sure but is it worth it. Probably not.



Expensive? Certainly.

But hard to do? No more so than a Small Block. It's basically the same, they're just bolts. There's nothing special to the N* that doesn't apply to most every other DOHC engine out there.

zonie77
01-31-07, 05:36 PM
Not a lot of people have rebuilt them. The best is list the parts you want and price them at one of the web parts stores (rockauto.com or gmpartsdirect.com) and then talk to your local machine shop.

Are you assembling? Pulling out and reinstalling? If you're having a shop do it all price it there and let us know.

To get an answer you have to give us a lot more info.

israel305
01-31-07, 06:46 PM
well i have a friend that owns a shop. and my brother that is a mechanic for the army is going to help me do the job. the car had a cooling problem i changed all the parts of the cooling system. but it was to late the heads wore blown. i was going to do the job in that moment but i got in a car accident and injured my spinal cord i'm almost ready to get back on the cadillac. it's been parked for two years with out turning it on. a week ago a changed the oil and filter and turn it on. it works but the surge tank gets filled with exhaust gas, and then it says to turn of engine. i have new heads for it and the time-sert tool and the FSM for it. and all the tool i will be needing. but i the most important thing i need is you guys help and knowlege. i want to take out the engine do the heads and time-sert. but someone in the fourm said some thing about replacing the bearing is the ture?

danbuc
01-31-07, 08:50 PM
If the engine doesn't knock, and only overheat due to head gasket failure....it would be unwise to venture any further down then the heads. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke..don't fix it. if I recall correctly, the crank alone requires a particular machine and polishing technique as well....not to mention what was already said about the cylinder honing, and scarcity of parts.

AaronZ34
01-31-07, 08:50 PM
I stopped reading after the first, well, ummmmm, I guess we can call it a sentence....

danbuc
01-31-07, 08:54 PM
I stopped reading after the first, well, ummmmm, I guess we can call it a sentence....

huh?

Ranger
01-31-07, 09:54 PM
If your only problem is head gaskets, you should not need to touch the bearings. Just Timesert and replace the gaskets.

codewize
01-31-07, 10:08 PM
Agreed, if head gaskets are the problem do them with the TimeSert and be done.

AaronZ34
01-31-07, 11:04 PM
Not you, Israel. I couldn't comprehend that paragraph if you paid me to.

Barrister_07101
02-01-07, 05:44 PM
As someone who had the same problem (but not the ability to fix it myself) I agree with those that say focus on the heads and leave the rest alone. That's what I had done and I've put another 60K on the engine.

danbuc
02-01-07, 06:46 PM
Not you, Israel. I couldn't comprehend that paragraph if you paid me to.

You comparing the N* to a SBC was no better pal.....no reason to be a dick. Some people can't articulate themselves as well as others online. I make mistakes frequently myself, but I don't claim to be a world class typist either.

zonie77
02-01-07, 11:42 PM
Isreal, you may only have to do the head gaskets and timeserting.

Look in the tech tips section for head gasket repair part 1.

If the engine starts and runs without knocking I'd just do the head gaskets. I'd leave the bearings alone. The heads usually are good too. You may not have to redo them.

AaronZ34
02-02-07, 01:13 AM
You comparing the N* to a SBC was no better pal.....no reason to be a dick. Some people can't articulate themselves as well as others online. I make mistakes frequently myself, but I don't claim to be a world class typist either.

Here we go again.

What is different that an engine builder need sto be aware of? It's just bolts, and you torque them to the proper amount. It isn't rocket science.

danbuc
02-02-07, 06:47 AM
Your standard 350 Chevrolet Pushrod V8 isn't going to have nearly the same tight tolerances that the DOHC N* is. You don't have to deal with timing all four cams to the intermediate shaft and crank. There's no bed plate in the SBC either, just main caps. The list goes on. Sure they are both engines, that have bearings and bolts in them. Comparing the two though is like saying that tearing down a rebuilding a Ferrari and a Citroen are the exact same because they both have an engine and tires. I have no doubt that someone who has done a rebuild or two on a SBC successfully could tackle a N*, but it's just simply not the same. It is more difficult to rebuild than a SBC and that's the point I'm trying to make.

dkozloski
02-02-07, 11:56 AM
The typical North* with a leaky head gasket is put back on the road with a repair and doesn't need an overhaul. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

AaronZ34
02-02-07, 12:45 PM
Your standard 350 Chevrolet Pushrod V8 isn't going to have nearly the same tight tolerances that the DOHC N* is. You don't have to deal with timing all four cams to the intermediate shaft and crank. There's no bed plate in the SBC either, just main caps. The list goes on. Sure they are both engines, that have bearings and bolts in them. Comparing the two though is like saying that tearing down a rebuilding a Ferrari and a Citroen are the exact same because they both have an engine and tires. I have no doubt that someone who has done a rebuild or two on a SBC successfully could tackle a N*, but it's just simply not the same. It is more difficult to rebuild than a SBC and that's the point I'm trying to make.

Who cares that the tolerances are different? You don't have to worry about that, your machine shop does. All you need to do is put the parts together. The cam timing is about the only thing, but on the other hand, you don't have to worry about pushrods and rockers. And it isn't like the cam timing is difficult, it's really easy in fact. So there's no bed plate in the SBC. Big deal, so you bolt it onto the N*. That's like saying it's hard to put valve covers on, and makes one motor more difficult to build than another. Sure they're different, but they're no harder or easier.

That's my point exactly. It is no more difficult to rebuild a SBC than it is a N*, or visa-versa. They're just bolts.

Eldobroken
02-02-07, 01:27 PM
Here we go again.

What is different that an engine builder need sto be aware of? It's just bolts, and you torque them to the proper amount. It isn't rocket science.
Aaron I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you really an *******. SBC and N* are entirely different. I can rebuild a SBC in less than a day with parts. N* I would just buy a crate motor and be done with it. Also why do you find the need to be F'in sarcastic with everyone on here. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME EXPERIENCE ON HERE. Or the tools needed

dkozloski
02-02-07, 02:02 PM
Aaron I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you really an *******. SBC and N* are entirely different. I can rebuild a SBC in less than a day with parts. N* I would just buy a crate motor and be done with it. Also why do you find the need to be F'in sarcastic with everyone on here. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME EXPERIENCE ON HERE. Or the tools needed
Aaron has yet to proove he has the skills to build a two hole privy. He's posted some pictures that could be anybodies work in anybodies garage and the work depicted was none too smooth. When pressed for details he turns tail and runs. He claims his black Fiero is his work but it was rebuilt after a wreck by a specialty shop. Before communicating with Aaron be sure to engage your BS filter.

codewize
02-02-07, 05:08 PM
Aaron, which is funny because that's my name also, but you're totally wrong. If you're so inclined and feel it's that simple why don't you have a go at it and post the results.

During engine assembly there's a lot more than sticking bolts in holes and torquing them. The N* requires far more care and expertise than thew SMC used in previous examples.

You can't even find engine shops who rebuild them, doesn't that tell you something? There are very few people, if any, who offer rebuilt N* engines. Think about it. Do you believe there's no market for them and that's why they don't bother? Highly unlikely.

If it were easy and just a matter of getting things in the right place, shops would be selling rebuilt N*'s all day long.

AaronZ34
02-02-07, 08:41 PM
Aaron I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you really an *******. SBC and N* are entirely different. I can rebuild a SBC in less than a day with parts. N* I would just buy a crate motor and be done with it. Also why do you find the need to be F'in sarcastic with everyone on here. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME EXPERIENCE ON HERE. Or the tools needed

They aren't entirely different. Lube the pieces that common sense would tell you to lube, put them in the right place, and follow torquing procedures. Engines aren't that complicated, even the DOHC ones.

To the ones that havn't had the experience, maybe they shouldn't act like they have (Look in the mirror).


Aaron has yet to proove he has the skills to build a two hole privy. He's posted some pictures that could be anybodies work in anybodies garage and the work depicted was none too smooth. When pressed for details he turns tail and runs. He claims his black Fiero is his work but it was rebuilt after a wreck by a specialty shop. Before communicating with Aaron be sure to engage your BS filter.

Yes, anybody's work in anybody's garage. Yet the pics are on my Photobucket, and no one elses, and I can tell you more about that car than anyone esle. As I said, just ask.

The black car is my work. I didn't own it when it was wrecked or repaired. And the repair that was done to it I could not do anyways.


Aaron, which is funny because that's my name also, but you're totally wrong. If you're so inclined and feel it's that simple why don't you have a go at it and post the results.

During engine assembly there's a lot more than sticking bolts in holes and torquing them. The N* requires far more care and expertise than thew SMC used in previous examples.

You can't even find engine shops who rebuild them, doesn't that tell you something? There are very few people, if any, who offer rebuilt N* engines. Think about it. Do you believe there's no market for them and that's why they don't bother? Highly unlikely.

If it were easy and just a matter of getting things in the right place, shops would be selling rebuilt N*'s all day long.

It doesn't take any more expertise or care. They are both engines. Find me one part that could not be installed by a novice engine builder, experienced with rebuilding SBCs and other DOHC engines, on a N*. I can't think of one. And for the 3.4l DOHC that I've rebuilt so many times, shop won't touch them either. Yet I can rebuild one in a matter of hours.

dkozloski
02-02-07, 09:31 PM
Aaron I asked for details on the flywheel in an earlier post and you never responded. What kind of stock did you make it from? What is the friction surface? What kind of inserts did you use for the clutch cover bolts? Where did you get the ring gear? Is it held on with welded tabs, shrunk on, or both? How much shrink did you use. How did you balance it? What did you use for a pilot bearing?

chazglenn3
02-03-07, 01:00 PM
I know of exactly three (3) shops that sell remanufactured Northstar engines. That tells me that it ain't easy or cheap. Jasper ($5000), Accurate Engines ($3000 and you supply the engine), and Custom Innovations ($2700 where I bought mine). There may be a couple more but, in the sea of engine rebuilders out there 3 to 5 or so that will do the Northstar speaks volumes to me.

israel305
02-03-07, 07:25 PM
well thanks for the help everybody. you all been very helpfull thanks again.

dkozloski
02-03-07, 08:02 PM
well thanks for the help everybody. you all been very helpfull thanks again.

Pulls coat collar up around ears, pulls hat down over eyes, and sneaks out of scene of utter destruction.

caddypartman
02-03-07, 08:41 PM
WOW what a fool a northstar and a small block the same? know wonder why he has rebuilt his 3.4 so many times...Anyway, although hard to do you could rebuild a northstar with a little skill. I've pulled them apart with 20k on them and done piston and rings for oil consumption and I've pulled them apart with 150k them to do the same. I can say that the cylinder bore and cross hatch on the cylinder look as good with 150k on it compared to 20k..If looking to rebuild use all factory stuff a little more money but better in the long run...I have yet to replace any main bearings but always replace connecting rod bearing and bolts with all rebuilds..As far a using timeserts, usually only the late 90's models need them. What I have found is to soak carb cleaner in the head bolt holes for a hour or so. this makes sure all the sealer gets cleaned out. follow torque sequence to a T and use the new digital torque angle meter and you will have a easy job of assembling...the only hard thing is the timing and even that follow manual and it isn't to bad either, easy when on a stad doing it in the car sucks. ( i have to add, there is a guy on ebay selling his own style timesert that he made, so far good reviews because he claims if the timesert pulls out that GM recommends his will still work as GM's will not. ) ahhh thats my $.2

AaronZ34
02-04-07, 02:58 AM
WOW what a fool a northstar and a small block the same? know wonder why he has rebuilt his 3.4 so many times...

Where did I say they were the same? I said they the N* isn't any harder to rebuild, because the design is essentially the same. It's bolts.

Where did I say I rebuilt my 3.4 so many times? I said I've rebuilt 3.4s so many times.

Learn how to read. And spell.

CadillacSTS42005
02-04-07, 12:25 PM
oh god does he ever shut up....
everyone i seriously say we all block and ignore him
eventually he may get the point that NO forum want him
and his unicorn fiero with the his mythical northstar....

danbuc
02-04-07, 03:51 PM
Where did I say they were the same? I said they the N* isn't any harder to rebuild, because the design is essentially the same. It's bolts.


I can tell you exactly where you said they were the same....it's in the quote above, right after you finish saying how you never said it, and then go on to say it again.

If they aren't the same, how they both be "essentially the same design". Wouldn't that make them..."the same". No offense, but you really need to think twice before you start typing...it's just getting annoying.

Oh...and I'm still waiting on those pics of your engine bay, with the N* in it....any time now.

AaronZ34
02-04-07, 05:00 PM
I can tell you exactly where you said they were the same....it's in the quote above, right after you finish saying how you never said it, and then go on to say it again.

If they aren't the same, how they both be "essentially the same design". Wouldn't that make them..."the same". No offense, but you really need to think twice before you start typing...it's just getting annoying.

Oh...and I'm still waiting on those pics of your engine bay, with the N* in it....any time now.

Well, they both have pistons, connecting rods, and a crankshaft. And bolts hold it all together. It's like fu*king rocket science.

danbuc
02-04-07, 05:34 PM
Well...one uses individial main caps, a central cam transferring motion to pushrods via solid/roller/hydraulic lifters, which in turn move rocker arms to actuate the valves....while the other has a two piece block utilizing a bedplate, two chains running from the crank, to the intermediate shaft than to four camshafts, each actuating a separate set of valves. Yeah, I can see how they would be exactly the same. Kind of like how a Wankel rotary, and a Gas Turbine are the same because they both DON'T have pistons. It's all so simple now...

still waiting for those pics too...

When's the last time you actually tore down and rebuilt a conventional Pushrod V8? I've had experience with Blueprinting Chervolet 350's and as a factory trained Mercedes, and Ford Tech tearing down numerous DOHC engines from 112's and 273's to Modular 4.6's and 5.4's. Neither of which resemble the inner workings of a SBC except for the most basic of components. Sure they've got pistons, and a crank, and valves, and an oil pump....but that doesn't make them the same. All of them require different specialized tools for dismantling and re-assembling, and they all have different tolerances, and materials used. To say they are basically the same to rebuild simply because they all use the same basic components (and I stress basic) of internal combustion engines, is ludicrous.

caddypartman
02-04-07, 05:46 PM
And for the 3.4l DOHC that I've rebuilt so many times, Yet I can rebuild one in a matter of hours.[/QUOTE]





I THINK YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ. IF I AM READING THIS CORRECTLY IT SAYS (THE 3.4l ) THAT TO ME IS ONE NOT MANY. THEN IT SAYS ( that I've rebuilt so many times) AGAIN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ONE NOT MANY!!
NO WONDER WHY YOU HAVE A FIERO

dkozloski
02-04-07, 05:49 PM
AaronZ34, where are the details on that flywheel you machined yourself? That's just like sharpening a pencil, right? It's all a waste of breath dealing with a delusional BS artist.

CadillacSTS42005
02-04-07, 09:50 PM
dude
they guys full of shit
read the link backs sal posted...
do as i say block and ignore...
or we petition to ban him....

internetauto
02-04-07, 10:04 PM
I noticed the mention of crate motors in this thread.
are we refering to This? (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=46NorthstarV8&engine=4.6%20Northstar%20V8&sku=12499468&engCat=rpo)
Beacause I doubt it is this (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=44LLC3Northerstar&engine=4.4L%20LC3%20Northstar&sku=17802896&engCat=rpo)
Just wondering :noob:

dkozloski
02-04-07, 10:18 PM
He is an excellent bad example.

Eldobroken
02-05-07, 09:33 AM
I noticed the mention of crate motors in this thread.
are we refering to This? (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=46NorthstarV8&engine=4.6%20Northstar%20V8&sku=12499468&engCat=rpo)
Beacause I doubt it is this (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=44LLC3Northerstar&engine=4.4L%20LC3%20Northstar&sku=17802896&engCat=rpo)
Just wondering :noob:
What did AARRON or morron create a new screenname with those 4 posts. Nice and with a static IP LMAO. BTW NEITHER CRATE MOTOR YOU LISTED IS CORRECT
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/96463-honestly-northstar-cadillac-wise-purchase-20-a-5.html#post965383

CadillacSTS42005
02-05-07, 11:34 AM
lol
apparently the mods made me block aaron lol
i cant even unblock him to trash his threads anymore
i find it kinda funny lol

Mountie
02-06-07, 02:25 AM
Get a new long block for $4,500 give or take..... W/ a G M warranty