: should i sell it.



Hammondsix
01-25-07, 01:01 PM
Im thinking about selling the fleetwood. Over the past month i have put 1000$ into it. but there are so many things that still need done.

The interior rattles..

Interior light does not work

air susp...

oil leak.

waterpump weeps

backup lamps are broken

paint on the front bumper is peeling off.

both sides of the exhaust have leaks by the mufflers

vibrates at speed.

it has 128000 miles on it, and was suprisingly well maintained according to the records.

i have dived into various electrical modules and they all look weathered and oxydated, sort of like an old battery.

It to me is just a total POS :annoyed: . I dont even think the ride is that nice (maybe related to the airsuspension not working) its noisy/rumbly(!)

I like the looks though, a guy is selling an immaculate 36k mile crown vic nearby that i was interested in. What do you think i should do?

caddycruiser
01-25-07, 01:29 PM
I'm with you, even if some people here aren't.

The looks of these cars are great, or at least standout, and the potential is there for great performance. And, in most cases, a huge attraction is the lack of and simplicity of maintenance...for most people.

But if it's just becoming a continual money pit, even without having it that long, and you just don't care to keep working on it OR have a passion for it anymore, it's not worth prolonging it--just get it in the best sellable condition, and cut your losses.

Newer or older, that's my policy with a lot of cars. My '95 has been dead reliable and issue free for the most part, and I'm beyond thankful for that, but it does annoy the heck out of me somedays. And, yes, there have been days where I just wanted something different, even without having it that long. But with where I'm at now, it needs to stay, and it's not a bad proposition because I don't worry about huge or complicated repair bills with this dinosaur.

You could keep fixing little thing after little thing, and being that it's now a 13 year old car, it's never going to be perfect, or you could just call it a day, sell it, and get into something that might fit your needs and time/wallet better. And moreso, it depends on what you could honestly get for it vs. what it will cost you to get something else.

Cadillac Giovanni
01-25-07, 01:44 PM
I agree. You should do what you feel. Older cars are great for restoration projects, and they look good going down the road, but if you don't have the money for that kind of thing, then it's pointless to waste it.

I have an 89 brougham, that (knock on wood) hasn't had any major problems to date. Sometimes the little things with the car annoy the hell out of me, and I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten a newer car. To me, the cadillac name has sort of become the standard. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in anything but a cadillac if I could help it, but if it wasn't worth the trouble to keep the car, then it's a no brainer.

Your car looks nice and I'm sure there is some collector out there, or even on this forum that wouldn't mind forking over some dough for it. Restoration work is hard, and nobody is going to blame you for it.

Plus, if you get a crown vic, people will think you're an undercover police car and get out of your way when you come up behind them.

BCs71
01-25-07, 01:58 PM
With the problems and condition you described above, I would also suggest that you part ways with your car since you are already tired of repair bills. With what you described, you are loking at a fair amout of money and time to fix things (even if you do it yourself). Add in labor costs and it is easily $1000 more.

These cars are reliable and generally cheap to maintain, but in your case seems like you bought a borderline lemon, unfortunately. I would suggest looking towards a younger (low mileage) Brougham locally. I could understand you deciding against that with a sour taste in the mouth, however.

Best of luck

Hammondsix
01-25-07, 03:55 PM
I put it on autotrader for 4500,-
I ordered an interior light relay which im gonna put in it. Im gonna glue the old backup lamps back on give it a wash and leave it at that.
Seems my experience with Cadillac became short lived :(

caddycruiser
01-25-07, 04:01 PM
I put it on autotrader for 4500,-
I ordered an interior light relay which im gonna put in it. Im gonna glue the old backup lamps back on give it a wash and leave it at that.
Seems my experience with Cadillac became short lived :(

Sounds about right, and exactly what I'd do if mine were giving me trouble or becoming a money pit.

Short time with a Cadillac yes, but don't let it sour your experience for future purchases, and in the meantime just try and find something that really "gets you". Best of luck.

In the scope of things, the problems you're likely having aren't that out of ordinary for a '94, but hopefully the next owner will be set to keep fixing a few more things and still be happy. Not worth it for you, though, if it's just getting to be more aggravation than anything.

Destroyer
01-25-07, 09:33 PM
Not gonna sell here. I wouldn't pay $4500 for something the owner refers to as a POS.:thepan:

Destroyer
01-25-07, 09:47 PM
Most of what you mentioned is nickel and dime stuff but you dont seem like much of a DIY kind of guy. Its ashame because the car could still serve you well for many more miles if you fix things as they break instead of letting these little things pile up.


"The interior rattles.. " Most Caddies or any full size GM car of this era has this problem. I never did meet an older style model with rattles though

"Interior light does not work".............change the bulb and/or check fuses

"air susp..."..............All cars with air suspension eventually give problems but you can put regular shocks preferebly stiffer ones for cheap.

"oil leak." ..............All Chevy motors leak after awhile. Unless its pouring out I would'nt worry about it too much.

"waterpump weeps"............Change it but watch out for that opti spark

"backup lamps are broken"..............eventually you will find them on ebay or the local junkyard

"paint on the front bumper is peeling off."...........A paint shop can fix that for cheap

"both sides of the exhaust have leaks by the mufflers"...........Cheap fix and a good excuse to put new mufflers or exhaust in

"vibrates at speed."...............could be as simple as a wheel balance or uneven tire pressure

"it has 128000 miles on it, and was suprisingly well maintained according to the records."...............and obviously its not anymore

"i have dived into various electrical modules and they all look weathered and oxydated, sort of like an old battery.".............long as they still function, who cares?

"It to me is just a total POS :annoyed: . I dont even think the ride is that nice (maybe related to the airsuspension not working) its noisy/rumbly(!)".........yeah busted suspension will do that. These are amongst the most comfortable cars, if properly maintained

"I like the looks though, a guy is selling an immaculate 36k mile crown vic nearby that i was interested in. What do you think i should do?".............go ahead by the FORD and get rid of it when IT needs normal maintenance like you are with the Fleetwood.

509Rider
01-25-07, 09:54 PM
I agree with Destroyer for once:p mine has a lot of little things wrong with it, its a 95 and only has 117,000 miles on it, I am slowly fixing everything and once its all good should have no other probs for a long time, but there is no way in hell I would but a crown vic over a fleet. Remember its not a new car anymore.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-25-07, 09:58 PM
I'm in the same position too, my car is nickle and diming me and I'm looking to buy something new hopefully by the end of the year. My car's problems are more expensive and in depth though. The problems with your car are pretty minor or are part of typical maintenance, my Roadmaster had the same problem with rattles and cheap materials..I hated it but when I look back, I realize it was a small problem that could have been easily fixed with some super glue or epoxy.

codewize
01-25-07, 10:08 PM
I have to back Destroyer on this. You're talking about one of the smoothest cars ever made. The air-ride isn't that big of a deal. I had to do my shock at 80k. The car now has 195 k on it and they're still fine.

The other things seem pretty small. How the hell did the back-up lights get damaged? They're so enclosed.

The paint on my front bumper is shedding the clear-coat also. Not a big deal I just don't worry about it.

Water pump I did too. I think the dealer charged me like $200 parts and labor. The pump was probably $75.

The exhaust is simple.

The interior light is probably the switch inside the door latch OR a relay somewhere Or whatever is rattling.

It's a nice car but if you're sick of it and don't want to put anything into it then selling is the right thing to do. For a few grand you could do the work and have a pretty sweet ride.

bicentennialcadillac
01-25-07, 10:11 PM
Nothing described here seems like a deal breaker. Keep her, that color is awesome on these cars.

caddycruiser
01-25-07, 10:36 PM
Yeah, on second though, you'll probably not get enough $$ back out of it to be worth it--unless you just can't stand it anymore and want something else, which is most definitely a valid point.

All on that list IS nickle and dime stuff, and Destroyer again did make the best post probably here. It's an old car, and most all of that can be fixed by a good DIY'er, but again if that's not you, and it DOES seem to be a list of stuff that just keeps getting longer, you'll have to decide. Being that you just put it up for sale, I think you might have already.

If you can sell it without too much aggravation, and can get something else that will likely not be as old or need as much small stuff done, you're likely better off still.

Hammondsix
01-26-07, 09:26 AM
Most of what you mentioned is nickel and dime stuff but you dont seem like much of a DIY kind of guy. Its ashame because the car could still serve you well for many more miles if you fix things as they break instead of letting these little things pile up.


"The interior rattles.. " Most Caddies or any full size GM car of this era has this problem. I never did meet an older style model with rattles though

"Interior light does not work".............change the bulb and/or check fuses

"air susp..."..............All cars with air suspension eventually give problems but you can put regular shocks preferebly stiffer ones for cheap.

"oil leak." ..............All Chevy motors leak after awhile. Unless its pouring out I would'nt worry about it too much.

"waterpump weeps"............Change it but watch out for that opti spark

"backup lamps are broken"..............eventually you will find them on ebay or the local junkyard

"paint on the front bumper is peeling off."...........A paint shop can fix that for cheap

"both sides of the exhaust have leaks by the mufflers"...........Cheap fix and a good excuse to put new mufflers or exhaust in

"vibrates at speed."...............could be as simple as a wheel balance or uneven tire pressure

"it has 128000 miles on it, and was suprisingly well maintained according to the records."...............and obviously its not anymore

"i have dived into various electrical modules and they all look weathered and oxydated, sort of like an old battery.".............long as they still function, who cares?

"It to me is just a total POS :annoyed: . I dont even think the ride is that nice (maybe related to the airsuspension not working) its noisy/rumbly(!)".........yeah busted suspension will do that. These are amongst the most comfortable cars, if properly maintained

"I like the looks though, a guy is selling an immaculate 36k mile crown vic nearby that i was interested in. What do you think i should do?".............go ahead by the FORD and get rid of it when IT needs normal maintenance like you are with the Fleetwood.

Getting emotional are we? :duck:

Im actually pretty big on maintenance. The 1000$ i mentioned before was spent on parts only! i did the job myself. I consider this maintenance though.

Interior light needs a Relay (20$) or (600$ if its the CCM)

Compressor (396$ from gmpartsdirect)

backup lamps + license pocket (154$ from gmpartsdirect)

mufflers (150$ from gmpartsdirect + 70$ for 1 hour of labor)

Regarding the vibration, i have:
changed the tires and balanced them twice, u-jounts, balanced the driveshaft checked the front end, replaced the transmission tailshaft bushing and nothing helped.

All this total out to around 1000$, AND I'M POOR!!!

Thanks for all the input guys:thumbsup:


Waterpump has less than 5000miles on it and it weeps. It just seems like a bad design to me(!)

caddycruiser
01-26-07, 04:13 PM
A lot of people do have issues with the waterpumps, especially replacements. And the vibration would drive me nuts, as I too have a minor issue with that, but still think it's related to my wide & low performance tires (maybe).

But keep your options open, and you never know, you could get someone who wants to buy it and you could just go elsewhere.

Destroyer
01-26-07, 05:58 PM
Getting emotional are we? :duck:


No not emotional at all. Just telling it like I see it thats all. To me if a car asks for $1000 worth of work to make it nice again after 130k or so miles it doesn't seem like much. My '91 Fleetwood has 152k miles and I've spent over $3500 to make it mint again and customize it to my taste. Now if you are poor or whatever maybe you should be driving a lower level car that has less that can go wrong with it.

I have a 97 Mercedes S320 that I'm selling. I have a guy that wants to buy it. He had it checked out at his mechanic and the car passed with flying colors. The car is a garage kept creampuff with 71k miles. At this point the interested party makes an offer and if accepted, he buys it. Well the guy said he was busy that day and now he keeps calling me back asking IF this breaks or that breaks how much does it cost, etc.. Although a Cadillac (especially a basically old school Brougham) does not require as much to fix as a Mercedes, this was the last response I had for him. I said "Look no matter how cheap you get it for now you have to remember that the repairs you will have to make are for a car that cost $80k new. If the thought of this scares you, this probably isn't the car you should buy". The Brougham wasn't $80k but it was still Cadillacs flagship car and it wont cost the same to fix as a Caprice or Crown Vic. End of story.

caddy's home
01-26-07, 09:12 PM
thumbs up Destoryer................. my 89' brougham was purchased from ebay as mint mint mint. how ever it wasn't exactly. item #190046401505. i noticed it then but thought the seller just didn't wax the body as good as the right fender-later i found out the fender had been painted. the car was dusty also and the refrigerator magnet stuck to the cars fender and other panels as well. so i took it as no repair work was done. little did i know that a magnet can stick to putty if it is not thick. the hood and trunk was painted also. i drove it home to Richmond.


to make a long story short i am going to paint the whole car at $3900. i already have put new direct bolt Dayton's wire wheels on it wrap in vogues. the dealer, my brother, my wife all say just leave it like it is. but it just a passion i guess to have it as perfect as i am willing to invest.

Jed95fwb
02-07-07, 10:55 AM
Any older car will need some work to put it into A-1 shape. My 1995 Brougham had 66k when I got it. It needed an o2 sensor, air shocks, new tires, new brakes, trans fluid change, the upholstered b-pillar cover, a rear door hinge and my driver's heated seat still doesn't work. I replaced the bubbling side chrome strips and the rear bumper rub strip after a parking garage broke my original, backing it into a van. (the van's steel bumper caved in, my car only got the rub strip damage).

The Brougham is part daily driver, part restoration project classic. To me, it blows away any anemic 4.6 Crown Vic. It was a $41,000 car new and it was comparably cheap to put mine in top shape. And that red metallic is a very hot color. I've gotten 30,000 of my favorite miles out of this car and I want to run it another 100k after the major tuneup. It sounds like you are experiencing problems that are less than most 128k mile cars have. If the car has serious rust/appearance issues, it could be shaky to put money into it. If not, I'd keep it.

96Fleetwood
02-07-07, 11:47 AM
Don't forget how old these cars are... they are not bound to be perfect. If you think your luck will be better with the Crown Vic, goodluck... I have been there and done that with the Ford 4.6 liter SOHC.

I bought my mint '96 FWB with 74K in December 2005 for $8,000... it was a one owner garage kept vehicle. It came with a stack of maintenance records from day one. Your car sounds a little more abused than what the records show. Weird.

I have almost $15K invested in mine with the upgrades and maintenance work. However, it is paid for and it is mine. It still gives me goosebumps everytime I glance back at it after parking... :cool: Luckily my ride is very enjoyable because it is quiet and performance oriented. In 2 years I will retire the Fleetwood from daily driving and buy a used CTS-V and keep the Fleetwood as a show car.

In your case, I would sell it because it is not giving you the return you need from a vehicle. You need something newer and more reliable and as your Fleetwood gets older, it is going to need more and more. The newer Crown Vic might provide that.... or a Toyota Camry/Accord.

You really have to be passionate about these cars to keep one running and in great shape. It has to mean more to you than just a mode of transportation.

You will get $4500 for it though, it is quite a looker and will make someone a decent daily driver.

Goodluck! You will be missed here!
-Elias

Hammondsix
02-07-07, 03:40 PM
Don't forget how old these cars are... they are not bound to be perfect. If you think your luck will be better with the Crown Vic, goodluck... I have been there and done that with the Ford 4.6 liter SOHC.

I bought my mint '96 FWB with 74K in December 2005 for $8,000... it was a one owner garage kept vehicle. It came with a stack of maintenance records from day one. Your car sounds a little more abused than what the records show. Weird.

I have almost $15K invested in mine with the upgrades and maintenance work. However, it is paid for and it is mine. It still gives me goosebumps everytime I glance back at it after parking... :cool: Luckily my ride is very enjoyable because it is quiet and performance oriented. In 2 years I will retire the Fleetwood from daily driving and buy a used CTS-V and keep the Fleetwood as a show car.

In your case, I would sell it because it is not giving you the return you need from a vehicle. You need something newer and more reliable and as your Fleetwood gets older, it is going to need more and more. The newer Crown Vic might provide that.... or a Toyota Camry/Accord.

You really have to be passionate about these cars to keep one running and in great shape. It has to mean more to you than just a mode of transportation.

You will get $4500 for it though, it is quite a looker and will make someone a decent daily driver.

Goodluck! You will be missed here!
-Elias

I have calmed down a little bit since when i wrote this thread. I have bought some normal springs and other parts. The Issues, are not as you mentioned because of abuse. they are caused of lack in initial quality, mainly in the electrical department. This coupled with very high parts prices (Electrical) makes it expensive to keep. Can't wait to get the ABS light 1700$ :bang2:
In comparison i have owned a 1994 Grand Marquis for 3 years without a single non maintenance related issue. Im not looking to pump 15k into this car, since i can find alot of other cars i would rather have for that price.

BCs71
02-08-07, 01:59 PM
Im not looking to pump 15k into this car, since i can find alot of other cars i would rather have for that price.

15K seems pretty exorbitant, and Elias may be more picky than typical owners.

I've owned mine since 2003 and have done quite a few performance mods as well as a $3500 repaint of the car and still would put my total maintenance/upgrade bill at $6500 estimated. Not bad for a 13 yr old car with 100K miles on it, especially considering 95% of my $6500 I've spent in the last four years has been optional since it is for appearance and performance aspects.

Other than oil changes I've only had to replace oxygen sensors and spark plugs/wires for maintenance. I bought the car with broken exhaust manifold bolts so I upgraded when fixing that (new heads and shorty headers).
I also do my own labor which saves a ton of money.... but then again, most people can do plugs/wires/o2 in their driveway with normal handtools.

Bottom line, these are usually inexpensive cars. If you think you got a lemon, then ditch the car. But don't let it sour your total experience.

96Fleetwood
02-08-07, 02:40 PM
Sorry, I should clarify.. I have $15K invested in my car along with the purchase price!! That means I have put ~$7K in mods and maintenance.

However, I have planned this purchase since 2003.. and had a budget and timeline made as to when I want to do what.. so this is more than just a daily driver to me, but an ongoing project.

Old Fleetwood
02-08-07, 04:39 PM
I guess I simply lucked in. I got my 1995 FWB in early june of 1996.
Everybody on this BB saw it in eBay for $6,500.00
Shipping from TX cost $975.00.
Inspection was an extra $99.00 before I bought it.
Since then, I popped for a Stage II Carolina Performance Transmission - ~$1700.00
Chattering Windshield Wipers cost me a new cowl and wiper arms, plus electrical glitches in the security system (that last drove me and the dealer nuts) that totaled $850.00
My only problems now are:
>noisy heater blower (I'll fix myself)
>squawling serpentine belt tensioners/pulleys (I'll probably let dealer or mech fix)
Needless to say, I'm more than pleased. The car handles very well, pulls our PopUp RV like it doesn't exist, and has been trouble-free except as noted above.
For a car 12 years old, that's pretty damn good. :thumbsup:

BCs71
02-09-07, 02:14 PM
Sorry, I should clarify.. I have $15K invested in my car along with the purchase price!! That means I have put ~$7K in mods and maintenance.


Whew! I hoped that I was reading into that wrong!