: Nitrous Help?!?!?!??!?!



CadillacSTS42005
01-15-07, 12:44 AM
ok well i have the money (i think) and now im plannin on putting Nitrous in her...
heres the questions...
how the hell do i do that???? lol
ive never put nitrous on anything and to my knowledge there isnt a kit for Northstars....
i plan on running a mere 25-50 shot to keep everything safe...
also about how much is it gonna run me cost wise?

dkozloski
01-15-07, 02:45 AM
ok well i have the money (i think) and now im plannin on putting Nitrous in her...
heres the questions...
how the hell do i do that???? lol
ive never put nitrous on anything and to my knowledge there isnt a kit for Northstars....
i plan on running a mere 25-50 shot to keep everything safe...
also about how much is it gonna run me cost wise?
If you don't know what you're doing it's going to cost you about $5000 a minute.

CadillacSTS42005
01-15-07, 09:08 AM
lol
im sure i can figure it out with help...
im not a complete moron....

Boombotz
01-15-07, 12:04 PM
Talk to Davedeville. I believe he did it to his Caddy.

hardley-etc
01-15-07, 12:55 PM
web search?

its a big place out there

some leg work will save you plenty

then you can come up with some kind of estimate of money and time

after you educate yourself, people will be willing to work with you more

CadillacSTS42005
01-15-07, 02:58 PM
i know what nitrous is
i know how it works
im asking how to install it on a Northstar aka built a kit to make it work on a N*, search the web yourself as have i, there it no kit for the northstar like there is for the ls1 or the lt1 etc etc etc....

hardley-etc
01-15-07, 03:53 PM
search the web yourself as have i, there it no kit for the northstar like there is for the ls1 or the lt1 etc etc etc..


mmmmmmmmmmm yes

produced numerous hits

http://www.compucarnitrous.com/TEST/kits/gm.htm

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?p=86857#post86857

still more posts as don't have time to go thru them all

CadillacSTS42005
01-15-07, 03:57 PM
1st site is for obd-1 93-95 Late models will not work
and 2nd site is for the 3800 S/C v6 which ISNT a northstar....

clarkz71
01-15-07, 05:15 PM
1st site is for obd-1 93-95 Late models will not work
and 2nd site is for the 3800 S/C v6 which ISNT a northstar....


Hmmmm, 93-95 Nitrous huh?. .:yup:

dkozloski
01-15-07, 05:39 PM
Here's your big chance to get out front and lead the pack. Street legalities? I'd start by talking somebody into letting me experiment on their car. Verrry interesting.

VinnyT
01-15-07, 08:35 PM
Here's a link to a 99 STS with dry shot of nitrous. Could use this as a 'template' for your set up.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/tech/STS/NitrousInstall/

AlBundy
01-15-07, 09:03 PM
I'm sure you remember that wydopnthrtl guy. He had some good info on how he set up his Eldo with nitrous.

eldorado1
01-15-07, 09:07 PM
You're going to end up spending about $500-800 on your kit. There are some good ones from ZEX that have some nice features to have to keep your engine in one piece. Any kit you buy will probably be "universal" and will come with instructions.

CadillacSTS42005
01-15-07, 10:00 PM
VinnyT:
i click the link and it takes me to the main forum page can you post the link again please? thanks!

Eldo1:
so you recommend ZEX? I was leaning towards true NOS or Nitrous Express, but thats because im familiar with the name...

eldorado1
01-16-07, 01:27 PM
I would do some more research on things you might need, like throttle switches, rpm switches, nozzles, dry vs wet vs dp... etc and see what kits come with what.

hardley-etc
01-16-07, 01:46 PM
get a hold of this guy

http://www.forum.nitrous-advice.com/viewtopic.php?t=2320&highlight=northstar&sid=29c7a1d807378a0a47e75278e3d36a6c

found this over my half hour lunch period, get a hold of the guy or the company he thanked in the write up, looks like a starting point

need to specify key words in the search engine


1st site is for obd-1 93-95 Late models will not work did not specify exactly what u were lookin for


Here's your big chance to get out front and lead the pack. Street legalities? I'd start by talking somebody into letting me experiment on their car. Verrry interesting.
don't think he will get out front now

Submariner409
01-16-07, 05:15 PM
:crybaby: NITROUS STORY: High school near here....kid with cute girl friend and a Toyota econobox. Wants to do burnouts. Buys NOS all-in-one kit, can't wait to impress the fart-can muffler crowd at 2:45 PM. Runs plastic tube from air intake plenum to right front seat, girl friend holding connected NOS bottle between her legs. "OK, honey, when I hit it, you open the valve." Most impressive. The oil and coolant stains are permanent parts of the macadam on Old Love Point Road, and there's still a mess of plastic and metal engine/tranny parts in the drainage ditch. Nobody hurt other than ego-wise. (Car is TOAST) Do it carefully and correctly. One mistake, and you're gonna be a lot poorer........

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-07, 05:52 PM
lol niceeee
nah im gonna have it done buy a shop
but right now im in the research phase ya kno? i dont wanna be taken for a ride
and i have been in contact with Wy and as of now we are still emailing back and forth, his help along with VinnyT and others has been greatly appreciated, with my one of a kind prototype chip i was able to get 14.4s, im hoping with a nice 50-75 shot, ill be up at about high 13s 14 flats..

dkozloski
01-16-07, 06:00 PM
lol niceeee
nah im gonna have it done buy a shop
but right now im in the research phase ya kno? i dont wanna be taken for a ride
and i have been in contact with Wy and as of now we are still emailing back and forth, his help along with VinnyT and others has been greatly appreciated, with my one of a kind prototype chip i was able to get 14.4s, im hoping with a nice 50-75 shot, ill be up at about high 13s 14 flats..

A good rule of thumb to go by is to start way rich on fuel to the extent that it throws a lot of black smoke at WOT and then lean out the fuel slowly until you just have a haze. Leaning it more won't give much more power but it can grenade your motor.

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-07, 08:14 PM
how can i adjust the fuel though?
i thought 96+ N*s cannot be adjusted...

dkozloski
01-16-07, 08:29 PM
Adjust the fuel being dumped in by the kit.

ELDOminator
01-16-07, 09:09 PM
lol niceeee
with my one of a kind prototype chip i was able to get 14.4s, im hoping with a nice 50-75 shot, ill be up at about high 13s 14 flats..
Well if you read that guys post, he said his 70 shot cut his ET from 15.2 to 14.3. That's almost a full second less. So with a 70 shot, I bet you could make it into the mid 13's! With a 100 shot though, oohhhh, maybe a 13 flat. Perhaps in the 12s? lol I'm just dreaming. But low 13's are doable I think.

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-07, 09:21 PM
sry ive been through so many posts
lol
which post are you talking about?

MonzaRacer
01-17-07, 12:38 AM
Well several companies add on the fuel feed by making the system up the preasure in one way or another the system on the car is simply a GM in most features so if it is a returnless system look for a kit that fits similar type GM car. But if it has a typical vaccum reference system the system depends on raising the line preasure at the injectors. A little addon that will help in your tuning is a wideband o2 so you can monitor the A/F Ratio closer,ALSO dont forget that if you intend to run this at the track regularly you want to have a step or two colder plug if possible.
I know several racers who absolutely love AC plugs as thier ground electrode will start melting before anything else will giving you a good judge of its getting too lean. I would pick up one of the books on using/designing the NOS system.
A friend is getting a Texas Nitrous Technologies setup soon and its going on his 73 Camaro with an LS-X engine.
good luck
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

clarkz71
01-17-07, 12:50 AM
how can i adjust the fuel though?
i thought 96+ N*s cannot be adjusted...
The nitrous nozzle has two seperate jets, one nitrous & one fuel. The rule of thumb is 4 numbers richer on the fuel jet. IE: #20 nitrous, #24 gasoline. This is on a wet system, on a dry, it's done by increasing fuel pressure as the nozzle only injects nitrous. You'd be better off with a wet system.

eldorado1
01-17-07, 10:37 AM
This thread is like watching a monkey with a fork moving towards an electrical socket.


how can i adjust the fuel though?
i thought 96+ N*s cannot be adjusted...

Please do some reading before sticking that fork...I mean before installing nitrous.

This would probably be a good start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous

stbtt
01-17-07, 11:03 AM
if you run a universal wet ket it is easy you get fuel from the shrader valve on the fuel rail use a wot switch that will come in the kit if you want a window switch you can turn it on and off at any rpm you want it is easy to get a nitrous kit to work with the n* i have mine all hooked up and am waiting on the dyno to get back up and running to dial everything in. start of safe just run the jets that are given in the kit you get they run very rich to start with and then take it to someone with a dyno to tune it in gap your spark plugs down to about 32 to keep fire and put the spray nozle after the maf senser and about 6 to 8 inches away from the tb i have put alot of n2o kits on many cars and trucks and never had any problems with any of them just take your time buy a good kit and you will be happy i have seen alot of diff. kits so as far as picking a kit i still go with nos oh yah for what its worth if you do it right and tune it in you can go as far as your drive train can handle my last car was a 99 saburban with the 350 i got the power up past 600 ftlb of torque on a all stack motor and used it alot never had a proplem other than i blew the rear end

CadillacSTS42005
01-17-07, 11:55 AM
g eldo1 love you too bro...
again im not gonna do it myself ill have it done by a performance shop but i want my reasearch done first
and alot of people have nosed their cars very well
Shadowlvr400, wy, dave etc etc etc....
i plan on using it JUST for track, and my car has already been timeserted by the dealer...

eldorado1
01-17-07, 12:42 PM
I feel better...

like I said, $500-800... more for the install... don't really need to ask anything here, because if the shop is competant, everything should be golden.

blunted
01-17-07, 05:01 PM
This thread is like watching a monkey with a fork moving towards an electrical socket.


:rofl:

clarkz71
01-17-07, 05:04 PM
This thread is like watching a monkey with a fork moving towards an electrical socket.

:devilheh:

wydopnthrtl
01-19-07, 01:00 PM
This thread is like watching a monkey with a fork moving towards an electrical socket.... Please do some reading before sticking that fork...I mean before installing nitrous.

I've got a timeslip, 15k miles (so far), and even a 13 second video that might contradict your perception. :cool2:

This page has the timeslip and video of me shooting a 100 shot ramped up a little too quick. (0.5 seconds):
http://www.dragtimes.com/Cadillac-Eldorado-Timeslip-10711.html

For what it's worth I've data logged 35,50,70, & 100shots on my 01 eldo many times. Here are some thoughts and observations I'd like to point out. And these are listed in order of importance based on my experiences as a caddy N* w/nitrous.. and as a automotive engineer.

1) You can't control timing or fuel pressue on a OBD2 northstar
So.. this has to be accounted for in other ways. a)Excessive octane is needed to protect against the 31degrees of timing. (Thats what I measured while on/off nitrous). b) Two ranges colder plugs c) a wet shot is manditory.

2) Ramping up the nitrous shot
Ramping up the shot size is a key element in making safe power. Too much too soon promotes intake backfires, excessive loads on the motor, and traction issues.
Here are two videos for you to consider. And please take note that the fuel pressure was off. That's why you'll see the fuel droplets spurt at first then just die off.:
1/2 second ramp up video (http://home.comcast.net/~rbickford325611mi/Vids/Ramp_half_second.wmv) (1mb)

3 second ramp up video (http://home.comcast.net/~rbickford325611mi/Vids/Ramp_3_seconds.wmv) (1.5mb)

3)Intake manifolds with long length runners promote fuel drop out.
The next time I shoot a 100shot I'll be running it approx 20% richer to help prevent that fuel drop out. With long travel lengths between the injector and the intake valve, the droplets of fuel will somewhat drop out of the air stream. That means you have to put a little extra in the plume in hopes of supplying enough when the motor is at full load.
I did data log this particular issue.. and saw the same ETs with higher trap speeds when adding excessive fuel. Between that and my plugs showing a little lean.. it tells me that at bigger shots (like 70 & 100) I was not giving it enough fuel.

If anyone is interested. Contact "Denny" at racetested.com He makes every kit custom to your needs vs just an off the shelf one size fits all kit like you'll find from the big mail order companies.

Rich

eldorado1
01-19-07, 06:26 PM
I've got a timeslip, 15k miles (so far), and even a 13 second video that might contradict your perception. :cool2:


My perception that CadillacETC1997 would have blown his car up if he installed the nitrous kit himself?:thumbsup:

davesdeville
01-22-07, 04:13 AM
Don't be too trusting of a shop, do your research there too, ask people their opinion. A local shop here managed to be the first in the country to toast an LS7 with an improperly installed nitrous system.

I just ran a wet system in the ETC. I mean, I had to since 95 has no MAF (still speed density.)

However I don't see a reason not to run a small-medium dry shot. That intake is designed to flow air, and it's thermoplastic (even though it has a pressure release valve,) so I'd probably be more comfortable with a dry shot. The dry system on my Mark has given me no problems. Colder plugs are indeed manditory, I don't remember what I went with on the ETC but the Mark has autolite AR34s. Pulsing the solenoids (IE racetested kit) really is a good idea, I don't see a real need for it if your goals aren't too high..