: CTS-V Manual Transmission Petition



Lord Cadillac
01-10-07, 10:48 AM
After reading this discussion:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum/95348-impressions-sitting-cts-thread-approved-forum.html

...particularly post #10, I thought it might be a good idea to start a petition of sorts - to tell Cadillac we don't want the manual transmission in the CTS-V going away - for obvious reasons...

So sign your name here (or alias) if you want Cadillac to keep the manual transmission available for the CTS-V in the future...

Jon
01-10-07, 11:48 AM
They won't get rid of the manual in the V. The V6 is available with a 6 speed manual, there's absolutely no way that the performance version would only come in auto.

mlg
01-10-07, 11:59 AM
MANual tranny please.

urbanski
01-10-07, 12:26 PM
agreed, however i will not post my name, just bunchies :bunchies:

BowenCT
01-10-07, 12:31 PM
Sticks for kicks.

nikon
01-10-07, 12:45 PM
Sticks for kicks.


word.

trukk
01-10-07, 01:10 PM
Why I bought my V:

1) pushrod V8
2) Rear Wheel Drive
3) Manual Transmission

What is will take for me to buy another:

1-3 same as above
4) Worked out the driveline kinks (crappy diff, wheel hop, clunk)


-Chris

mostoyzwinz
01-10-07, 01:18 PM
Thread-jack-on
Why pushrod? Don't like DOHC 4-valve per cylinder technology?
Thread-jack-off

nikon
01-10-07, 01:20 PM
Thread-jack-on
Why pushrod? Don't like DOHC 4-valve per cylinder technology?
Thread-jack-off


:yup: Lets get some new technology in this bich. :thumbsup:

trukk
01-10-07, 01:29 PM
Thread-jack-on
Why pushrod? Don't like DOHC 4-valve per cylinder technology?
Thread-jack-off

I like torque, small packaging, weight savings, less complexity, bulletproof 50+ year based design, simple/easy modability. Added plus is the lumpy cam sound. Everyone keeps predicting the end of the OHV design, yet Detoit engineeers keep inovating, and increasing their power output, while having them remain simple and cheap to manufacture.

Aside from that a DOHC is fine :D

-Chris

thebigjimsho
01-10-07, 01:41 PM
If the pushrod is doing the job, then what's wrong? I'm not partial to any one type of technology...

lawfive
01-10-07, 01:51 PM
Back on track: I'm pretty sure I want an auto in my next car, but listen Cadillac: If you wanna compete with the M5, ya better offer a stick. If you're interested in current V customer loyalty, ya better offer a stick.

(A tight one this time. With shorter throws. And no fair using a tranny, diff, or any other drivetrain part that won't handle the power...)

Slapshot
01-10-07, 02:05 PM
One of the features that makes me want the CTS-V is the honkin V-8 and the 6 speed. No 6 speed I think I'd go elsewhere... I'm not ready for the STS - V I still like to be "involved"...

nikon
01-10-07, 02:07 PM
^^^ 6 speed ;)

urbanski
01-10-07, 02:07 PM
6 speed

edit; b10

lawfive
01-10-07, 03:16 PM
Maybe he only uses five?

austin
01-10-07, 04:31 PM
If adding auto stops the parade clunk, i'd be for it as an option. But i can't see manual going away... unless GM figures out that all the clunking, differential breakage and other driveline problems are partialy caused by hard manual clutch driving... which wouldn't be too far fetched!! I think the GTO's come in both auto/manual? :)

50 4Ever
01-10-07, 04:52 PM
They won't get rid of the manual in the V. The V6 is available with a 6 speed manual, there's absolutely no way that the performance version would only come in auto.

Unless they changed something while I wasn't looking the V6 is standard with a manual, the auto is an option. At least it was this was through 2005.

Getting rid of the manual in the CTS-V is like getting rid of it in the Corvette. I'm sure GM would not like to see the end of thesse models.

If you can't tell, I prefer the manual be standard. The only auto I would want to see as an option is the paddle shifter lihe the Corvette.

urbanski
01-10-07, 05:31 PM
did you guys read how the 6-speed M5 wont let you disengage traction control? haha uber-nanny. hopefully GM wont read that article

Slapshot
01-10-07, 05:48 PM
The Audi and the Mercedes finished ahead of the M5 because of it. Let freedom reign buddy...

Autom8r
01-10-07, 06:22 PM
The stick is here to stay in the CTS-V... The only time it bugs me is in dead stop and go traffic.... which in itself bugs me... the stick and 100 pound clutch that engages 1/4" off the floor only compounds the bugs...

Dave

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 06:37 PM
Auto trannys are boring,I don't care what is better,faster,smoother.I bought the car to drive,I love driving my car.An auto tranny would dumb down the car,not to mention that new demographic of uncordinated retarted people driving cts V's.

Lee6
01-10-07, 06:55 PM
count me out on this one......i've been waiting for 1) the rear end to get fixed....and 2) an A6 to be offered as an option

to each his own......a decent auto tranny is a blast in a high powered car....i used to have a '98 Z28 with an A4....loved it......traded it in on an M6 C6.....lovin that one too

they're both fun.....they both drive/handle great.....enjoyed both of 'em at the strip and the road courses

(all this anti-auto prejudice is getting old....)

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 07:18 PM
(all this anti-auto prejudice is getting old....)

Why?
The V's having a stick is what scares most nim rods off.It's still working:canttalk:

MLV
01-10-07, 07:53 PM
Keep the 6 speed manual in the CTS-V. I would not have bought it with an automatic transmission.

HiTechRV
01-10-07, 08:05 PM
The V came out to get Caddy into racing. Why would anyone think it would be discontinued? If anything it seems likely the next CTS-VR will compete better on the track. Hard to picture that with just an automatic on the street car - for image if nothing else.

It is very hard for me to picture a non small block, non manual CTS-V.

lunarx
01-10-07, 08:06 PM
Stick stays.
Let the poser automatic drivers choose from the huge pool of cars already offered with automatics.
Why to they want to ruin the V with an automatic?
Buy something else if you need an auto, as you clearly are not a driving purist. :thehand:

Lee6
01-10-07, 08:34 PM
......not a driving purist......

like i said.......anti-auto prejudice

i did 4 years of autocross with my Z28.......one year i entered a team competition.....got paired with a guy from the bay area......had an LT1 Z28....a4......it was a FOUR TIME NATIONAL autox champion car

at spring mountain, they had an all vette day a while after the A6 was offered in the C6.......the A6 cars got better times than the M6 ones....

this is really old.......this purist bullcrap.....

LS1Mike
01-10-07, 09:16 PM
I say offer both. I love the 6 speed in my WS6, wouldn't have it any other way, but I wanted a V, as you see I have a 3.2 blah, Why? It is my wifes daily driver and she didn't want to drive the 6 speed.
If they have the A4 and A6 in the Vette, f-body, and GTO, why not offer both in the Cadillac of cars. The Cadillac CTS-V.

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 09:36 PM
What was this thread about?Oh ya ,Auto's suck!But serious guys,what can you like about an auto in a sports car?The auto just takes so much away from the driving experience,Being in perfect sink with the entire car is what performance driving is all about.You either can do it or you can't,or maybe theres a dude in the other seat and the driver needs a free hand.

LS1Mike
01-10-07, 09:39 PM
I remeber a buddy of mine Jeff Kerr, race his auto LT1 trans Am all the time.
Why did he have an auto you ask?
He had no right arm lost it in an accident.
No harm in offering both dosen't ruin the car.

C66 Racing
01-10-07, 09:42 PM
Why I bought my V:

1) pushrod V8
2) Rear Wheel Drive
3) Manual Transmission

What is will take for me to buy another:

1-3 same as above
4) Worked out the driveline kinks (crappy diff, wheel hop, clunk)


-Chris

Ditto. :thumbsup:

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 09:48 PM
I remeber a buddy of mine Jeff Kerr, race his auto LT1 trans Am all the time.
Why did he have an auto you ask?
He had no right arm lost it in an accident.
No harm in offering both dosen't ruin the car.

It would ruin the car for me,Jim Abbott played 10 seasons in the major leagues with one arm,maybe he should of used a pitching machine:want:

Lee6
01-10-07, 09:49 PM
..... in perfect sink.....

another rationalization......

so.......what? we should give up on ABS? forgoe power steering?

let's see.....perfect sink.....driving purism........model T ford?

:yawn:

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 09:53 PM
another rationalization......

so.......what? we should give up on ABS? forgoe power steering?

let's see.....perfect sink.....driving purism........model T ford?

:yawn:
In other words,if it has wheels,I CAN DRIVE IT.

Abs=you can shut that off
Power steering=I would rather not have it
Model T=have drove one before

Lee6
01-10-07, 09:56 PM
model t's here we come........retro insanity....

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 10:01 PM
It's not to late to learn how to drive a stick there Lee.Try it ,you might like it.This platform of car needs to be left alone,give the geezers and soccor moms autos.Post 5 ought to be a good one!

Ronsv
01-10-07, 10:12 PM
Stick shift only PLEASE, lets keep the CTS V the true enthusiasts car, no posers.
Ford put an automatic in the SHO in 1993 and the car lost a ton of mystique, it was now a car for “everyman (and woman)”, prior to that it was a hard edged street fighter. When Ford went to the automatic, they softened up the suspension in the auto cars, knowing it was a different audience purchasing the auto cars. We don’t need the CTS V to turn into a soft touring car, lets keep it real!
The no-shift crowd can pick up a STS V, the hard core crowd will go with the CTS V.
Just my 2 cents :stirpot:

LS1Mike
01-10-07, 10:15 PM
It would ruin the car for me,Jim Abbott played 10 seasons in the major leagues with one arm,maybe he should of used a pitching machine:want:

I totally understand what you are saying, but what does it hurt to offer both?
You can have your 6 speed and I can get my wife a car, that I wouldn't mind driving too.:thumbsup:
I would through a big fat stall in there and load it up on the converter all day long.

DILLIGAF
01-10-07, 10:23 PM
Cars with autos are for a totally different demographic than most of us in here.3 models in the V series,why not leave this one alone?And like the above post,they will have to soften suspension to suit their new crowd,hell maybe they'll offer a bench seat and old lady visor.

LS1Mike
01-10-07, 10:31 PM
As fas as I know the Vette, F-body, and GTO with auto use the same Suspension.
Don't get me wrong auto isn't my cup of tea either, but having the option will not kill the car or people would not buy the Corvette.
Ok the real reason is...
I need a break here it is the only way I will be able to get one and keep the WS6...I guess I could sell my RV.

calicadi
01-10-07, 10:48 PM
I wouldn't mind a first-class paddle shifter like in the Ferrari F430, but no slush boxes please.

onebadcad
01-10-07, 10:51 PM
I do not buy vehicles unless they have a manual transmission, so listen up Caddy and do not ruin the V by not offering such on the 650HP Uber Thrasher. "If you ain't shifting, you ain't driving"-quoted from Ricky Bobby in his new film 'Daytona Days'.

lunarx
01-11-07, 12:00 AM
I just dont get it.
Why aren't the automatic drivers happy with a 300HP Automatic Transmission 08 CTS?
It's a fine car and would save them 20K and get lots better gas mileage.
Why would someone want an automatic V? :confused:
If it's a matter of pleasing the wife, she would prefer the $20K.

stkshkr
01-11-07, 12:19 AM
If you don't have a clutch, you don't have much!
Member United Manual Transmission Racers
Keep the stick.

nxlr8
01-11-07, 12:19 AM
The ONLY reason I'm drivin' a V is because of the 6 speed... If it were an Auto, i wouldn't have bought it. Case closed in my opinion...

GM might look at this as an opportunity to sell more V's (if there is an Auto option)... well, keep the V an enthusiasts car... come out with a CTS-GT or something for the woosies who don't want the manual trans... Hell, you could probably even charge 'em more... just don't let them be faster :eek:

Lee6
01-11-07, 05:17 AM
It's not to late to learn how to drive a stick there Lee.Try it ,you might like it.This platform of car needs to be left alone,give the geezers and soccor moms autos.Post 5 ought to be a good one!

you didn't read my post.....i traded my Z28 in on a C6 Corvette, M6 with Z51 option......take it to north CA road courses all the time.......my heal/toe is getting pretty smooth now, thank you......got 40K+ on her already

you guys are over-the-top biased on this one.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/leehixsonc6/P1000402-80.jpg

rand49er
01-11-07, 05:53 AM
Exactly two years ago now in January 2005, I looked at every Detroit-area dealership's inventory for a 6-spd manual CTS AND COULD NOT FIND ONE!!! I must have looked at a couple hundred cars. There was no way I was going to buy a car unless it was a stick.

If the V did not have a manual, I would NOT have bought it ... PERIOD!

dqw1
01-11-07, 07:22 AM
6 speed stick.

mostoyzwinz
01-11-07, 08:15 AM
If adding auto stops the parade clunk, i'd be for it as an option. But i can't see manual going away... unless GM figures out that all the clunking, differential breakage and other driveline problems are partialy caused by hard manual clutch driving... which wouldn't be too far fetched!! I think the GTO's come in both auto/manual? :)

Seems to me all the clunk is from; dual mass flywheel, 2-pc carrier bearing/unversal joint driveshaft, very loose diff and movement in it's mount, IRS short shafts/universal joints, etc. Certainly that level of rotational freedom allows one to gather up some "diff killer" momentum. Each component's 'play' could be measured to see which is the worst and then work on that...but I'm sure the SAE types at GM know all about that.

urbanski
01-11-07, 09:21 AM
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n201/therealurbanski/1168167281708.jpg

lunarx
01-11-07, 10:26 AM
Lee, all we are saying is that there is really no reason for the V to be auto.
If you want to cruise around on the street in a comfy auto there are plenty of auto cars available to buy.
Most of us want to keep the feel of a sports car alive in our daily driving, which is what the V is all about.
What did you expect from the owners of a car only sold in manual trans form?

People who want an auto should be looking at other cars (perhaps a DTS) for their daily transportation.
No shame in that.

LS1Mike
01-11-07, 10:54 AM
Some people want a 400 hp LS2 that you can through a converter in and cut 1.5 60 foots without breaking the rearend, like in a Corvette or F-body. Seems like everyone here modifided there car in someway. Wait till you put a really good clutch in that thing, you think your rearend sucks now. I broke two 2500 dollar Moser 12 bolts in my WS6 because I put a good clutch in it that dosen't slip.

I am not talking about taking the manual away, keep it. I drag race all summer and sometime wish I had the auto for consistentancy.

What would it matter to anyone here if I plopped down 50,000 bucks on a A4 or A6 V and then put a 3200 rpm stall in it?
I don't want a big ass DTS or STS. A 400 hp automatic is no slouch.

lawfive
01-11-07, 11:05 AM
I just dont get it.
Why aren't the automatic drivers happy with a 300HP Automatic Transmission 08 CTS?

Always wanna go fast. Don't always wanna shift.

LS1Mike
01-11-07, 11:13 AM
Always wanna go fast. Don't always wanna shift.

Very well said. A purist puts a 1500 dollar Mcleod twin disk in his car and drives it daily, he doesn't worry about broken parts. Broken parts are just that. You fix it you move on you break it again. Such is the cycle of Purist or a true racer.
However it would be nice to have a 400 HP LS2 that didn't burn up clutches or break rearends at the track. If you haven't broke it, you are not driving it right.

Lord Cadillac
01-11-07, 11:16 AM
Not everyone who wants to do 11s in the quarter mile also wants to manually shift. That's the reason for an automatic CTS-V, which I would personally buy over a manual. I've had a broken left foot that didn't heal for 18 months.. I would have gone insane if my car was manual.

Still, I feel it's important for the manual option to be available for those who DO want to manually shift...

Some people just have more fun winning races than shifting and winning races.. This should be no big deal or surprise to anyone.

LS1Mike
01-11-07, 11:23 AM
Not everyone who wants to do 11s in the quarter mile also wants to manually shift. That's the reason for an automatic CTS-V, which I would personally buy over a manual. I've had a broken left foot that didn't heal for 18 months.. I would have gone insane if my car was manual.

Still, I feel it's important for the manual option to be available for those who DO want to manually shift...

Some people just have more fun winning races than shifting and winning races.. This should be no big deal or surprise to anyone.

Enough said, that sums it up perfectly.

CIWS
01-11-07, 11:45 AM
If Cadillac wishes to appeal to the widest possible customer base they will offer both. I'm sure there were potential customers who did not buy a V because it was a manual transmission only. As well as if it had been auto only there would have been some who didn't buy it. But comparing this car with the standard CTS is really a moot point IMO. Their resemblance ends with similar appearence and interiors. The performance and handling of the two are completely different. I am about to go ape-shit driving a 3.6ltr auto CTS for the last 4 days. It has reminded me once again why I bought a V.

Lee6
01-11-07, 01:43 PM
.....Most of us want to keep the feel of a sports car alive in our daily driving, which is what the V is all about.....People who want an auto should be looking at other cars (perhaps a DTS) for their daily transportation.....

sorry.....i just don't buy that characterization

so F1 race cars (the pinnacle of sports cars?) don't "keep the feel of a sports car"?

with a paddle-shifted C6 vette, you can change gears at will, and keep it in that gear........they are getting better times on road courses than manuals.....exactly what is it about pumping your left foot back and forth that makes manual shifting "purer" than paddle shifting?

urbanski
01-11-07, 01:50 PM
exactly what is it about pumping your left foot back and forth that makes manual shifting "purer" than paddle shifting?

i like the feel of my kneecap cartilage grinding and snapping

50 4Ever
01-11-07, 02:33 PM
you didn't read my post.....i traded my Z28 in on a C6 Corvette, M6 with Z51 option......take it to north CA road courses all the time.......my heal/toe is getting pretty smooth now, thank you......got 40K+ on her already

you guys are over-the-top biased on this one.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/leehixsonc6/P1000402-80.jpg

That's Thunderhill, I go up there often, I do believe I saw you last time I was there, or it was another Daytona Sunset Orange Metallic C6. Where do you live, I'm outside of Sacramento.

Next time I go up there I'll look for you.

lunarx
01-11-07, 02:44 PM
I will take a F1 SMG in a heartbeat.
A GM automatic slushbox is not an F1 SMG.

If you want to talk roadcorse performance I can see how a bad driver will be faster, even in a GM slushbox automatic.
Very likely even in a straight 1/4 mile race.

However, a good driver can make better use of the power band and engine braking and use fine throttle modulation to control the car better with a manual trans.
It's the driving dynamics of fine throttle modulation that allow a car to negotiate turns at its maximum adhesion level.
A slushbox takes away that fine throttle control.
On a roadcourse you steer as much with the throttle as you do with the wheel.

Lee6
01-11-07, 03:27 PM
That's Thunderhill, I go up there often, I do believe I saw you last time I was there, or it was another Daytona Sunset Orange Metallic C6. Where do you live, I'm outside of Sacramento.

Next time I go up there I'll look for you.

mine is a magnetic red metallic......but i'm out of yuba city, so yeah, i'll be looking for you next time.....i usually run with NCRC, but last month ran with TEAM

:)

Lee6
01-11-07, 03:35 PM
.....A slushbox takes away that fine throttle control.
On a roadcourse you steer as much with the throttle as you do with the wheel.

right....but throttle control takes place AFTER you change gears, not WHILE you're changing them.....once you downshift a GM A6 paddle (right before/during braking and turn-in) you're IN the gear, just like you would be IN the gear using a manual.....and THEN you start using the throttle to manage speed and car balance

there's no control going on during the gear shift.....

like i said before......there's an f-body A4 with 4 national championships under it's belt......gotta be plenty of control operating there, to get that many wins

The Tony Show
01-11-07, 03:36 PM
I have sold Cadillacs since the 90's, so I'm in a good position to weigh in on this.

I could have sold, minimum, eight to ten more CTS-Vs per year if it was offered in an Auto. I've done entire walkarounds on the car with customers and had them drooling for a test drive, only to have their face drop when they see the stick. "I have a bad knee", "I had surgery", "I have back problems", "I drive a lot of stop + go traffic".....the reasons go on and on.

We dealers have been screaming for an Automatic option in the CTS-V since 2004. They need to keep the stick for the purists, but they're tossing away a huge portion of the market by not offering an auto.

lunarx
01-11-07, 04:31 PM
Low speed autocross, where gearshifts might slow you down could be advantage automatic.
However, if that guy had the budget to custom pick his gear ratios for each course, I wonder if he would still prefer an automatic.

In a longer race (> 1 minute, i.e. roadcourse) the weight, thermal and efficiency penalties of a slushbox automatic would put it at a disadvantage.
Also, a lot of sharpenss of the throttle response gets absorbed by the torque converter.

Do you think this guy is driving an automatic?
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d737539f-6b47-4416-98ce-c4e93394b777.htm

Anyways, I agree that an automatic has more market demand and makes more sense for the majority of the public.
I was just having a fun debate on a subject that GM will soon awnser.

Oh yea, did I mention a stick sounds cooler.
Please keep your stock exhaust if you drive an automatic. :)

50 4Ever
01-11-07, 05:30 PM
mine is a magnetic red metallic......but i'm out of yuba city, so yeah, i'll be looking for you next time.....i usually run with NCRC, but last month ran with TEAM

:)

Now the color does look like Magnetic Red, must be going color blind. I was at TH last month the day before Bonnie and her group(TEAM) with Trackmasters (TMR).

:thumbsup:

Autom8r
01-11-07, 08:05 PM
Speaking of exhaust.... I really get a kick out of running through the gears with my Caddy's Corsa blatting next to the guy in a pickup with his Flowmasters.... for that matter, any Mustang, Camaro or Firebird.... Hell.... anyone with their window down......

Stick-shift Caddys are near unheard of in Nashville..... I have never seen another CTS-V around here and have been looking since they first came out in '04.

Dave

lawfive
01-11-07, 11:30 PM
Oh yea, did I mention a stick sounds cooler. :)

Yeah. And the girls seem to dig it. A woman who works for me and I went out for sushi at lunch the other day, and I drove. When she said, "Oh, this has a stick shift?" her eyes kind of lit up. With that encouragement, I rolled down the windows before I started it up so that she could hear the Corsa burble. Then she

-----------------

"What, honey? I'm not doing anything. Just talking to the guys on the V forum..."


.

mostoyzwinz
01-12-07, 09:11 AM
I have sold Cadillacs since the 90's, so I'm in a good position to weigh in on this.

I could have sold, minimum, eight to ten more CTS-Vs per year if it was offered in an Auto. I've done entire walkarounds on the car with customers and had them drooling for a test drive, only to have their face drop when they see the stick. "I have a bad knee", "I had surgery", "I have back problems", "I drive a lot of stop + go traffic".....the reasons go on and on.

We dealers have been screaming for an Automatic option in the CTS-V since 2004. They need to keep the stick for the purists, but they're tossing away a huge portion of the market by not offering an auto.

While I'm hardcore manual gear box, I think you got that right.

lunarx
01-12-07, 09:26 AM
Those "bad knee", "surgerey", "back problem" people should stay away from the V anyways. :tisk:
The V's cornering & braking gforce will probably put them back in the hospital. :lildevil:
There, we just saved GM $$millions from massive lawsuits by not offering an automatic V.

Lawfive summed up what the V is all about. :D
Women are always feeling my stick when they ride in the V.

Autom8r
01-12-07, 02:16 PM
I wholeheartedly agree Caddy would sell a helluva lot more CTS-Vs if they offered a slushbox, and I am certain they also are well aware of it. To my knowledge, it's a packaging problem that will soon be solved.

BIG problem is the slushbox will severely diminish the exclusivity we all enjoy with our Vs.

Dave

The Tony Show
01-12-07, 03:42 PM
Exclusivity is a double-edged sword. While all manufacturers want people to view their product as "exclusive", they want to sell as many as possible, even if that means diluting the customer base a little with some "less than enthusiast" people.

You'd better believe that plenty of Gray haired folks own Automatic 'vettes, and GM profits from it.

Autom8r
01-12-07, 04:52 PM
Another point well made. I have a '78 Silver Anniversary C3 'Vette (with a 700-R4 lockup OD auto) and am in a local 'Vette club, 75% of the members are gray and 75% of their C4, C5 and C6 'Vettes are automatics. Damn good automatics at that!!!

Dave

Koooop
01-12-07, 05:17 PM
Even BMW wised up on this point amd offers an Auto on the M5. Given the choice on the V I would have bought an Automatic.

Ever drive a C5 with an Auto? Point and floor it, the fun is mindless!

Without us bad Knee, surgery or bad back folks Cadillac wouldn't sell many cars.

I hope Caddy offers us a choice in the next V, but eitherway I'm getting another V.

lunarx
01-12-07, 05:24 PM
The top dog Vette Z06 remains stick.
The top dog CTS-V currently shares that distinction.

That's the way it is here and now. :cloud9:
I don't see anything wrong with that.
Why try to change it?
If the V was already automatic, I would not lobby to take it away.
As if it's up to me. :banghead:

Let's keep the top dog automobiles true to the wet dreams of the engineers who brought them to us.
Why take that away from them and us?
Our demographic needs to grow, not shrink.
Let's keep it alive guys.

-------------------------------------------------------

BTW - M5 is not an automatic it is SMG an entirely different technology.
Actually BMW did wise up to the tune of bringing back the stick.
At least the BMW buyers are demanding to keep it real.

Koooop
01-12-07, 05:50 PM
SMG has an Automatic mode... BMW will ultimately sell more cars when they offer both in the near future.

If Cad offers me the choice of an LS2 auto and an LS7 Stick (or the like) by God I'll be gettin' another stick!

I believe they would sell the piss out of an LS2 Automatic V.

I believe strongly that Lutz knows this already.

Lee6
01-12-07, 09:01 PM
listen.....

for you devotees of the exclusivity angle......

if the M6 is the crest of the wave.....it'll still be that way AFTER the A6 is introduced.......like the Z06 to the C6........you won't lose your status.....

calm down.....it'll all be ok.......

Vdrenaline
01-13-07, 07:48 AM
Why I bought my V:

1) pushrod V8
2) Rear Wheel Drive
3) Manual Transmission

What is will take for me to buy another:

1-3 same as above
4) Worked out the driveline kinks (crappy diff, wheel hop, clunk)


-Chris

Ditto except I don't necessarily care if it is pushrod or not. Make sure the next V has a manual transmision or I am unlikely to buy one.

HiTechRV
01-13-07, 10:06 AM
Ever drive a C5 with an Auto? Point and floor it, the fun is mindless!



Very true - My wife hoped for our C5 to be an automatic and I thought it would be disappointing until I test drove it. If you want a car that makes you feel like you are a better driver than your, an automatic 'vette is the ticket. The Stabilitrak and TC have an important advantage in their arsenal - the upshift. It can really keep you out of trouble when traction is going or the car is about to go sideways. But it also has comp mode which is very entertaining on an automatic.

While I prefer a manual and the throttle steering control it provides over an auto, I love the idea of a larger CTS-V market, which would drive the availability or more mods, parts (WHEELS!) and such. I would not be morally offended by an automatic V as long as I can still get a manual.

dqw1
01-13-07, 05:22 PM
I like the idea of manual only CTS-V. I like it even more because it eliminates alot of drivers. I like that I don't see a bunch V's on the road. Keep it exclusive and keep the current grill on the 08. I really don't care if GM doesn't sell a bunch of V's because they don't offer an auto, it was never meant to be that way. You can get an STS-V and there's nothing wrong with that.

rodster111
01-14-07, 12:15 PM
I'm sure GM would be happy to sell more CTS-V's, it might help them to avoid going out of business a little longer. They're in business to turn a profit selling cars their customers want, not pretend to be a purveyor of exclusive automobiles by artificially restricting sales through a failure to provide options many potential customers will pay for on an otherwise desirable product. Exclusivity is achieved when your product provides such unique value that it can be priced above what the masses can afford, or it is artificially achieved (at a profit loss) by not offering what people who can afford the product will pay for, especially when your competitors do offer it.

The STS-V is a $75,000 car, the CTS-V is a $50,000 car, why should I have to spend an extra $25,000 for an automatic when everything else about the CTS-V is what I want? GM's own Corvette offers one for $1,250. Nobody doubts the Corvettes' sports car prowess or it's reputation. Would you be as willing to have the tables turned and have the $75,000 STS-V be the "manual only" choice and the $50,000 CTS-V be an "automatic only" car? The STS-V would be "exclusive" to the point of extinction very quickly.

I fully support the continuance of having the manual be the standard transmission in the CTS-V, it does give those who enjoy it the choice of having what they want, but I just don't see how offering an automatic option for those of us who would like to PAY EXTRA for it should hurt the enjoyment of those who like their manuals. Increased sales of the V would allow Cadillac to keep making the series. Any other model of car that sold in such dismal volumes as the V would have been axed long ago, GM even considering eliminating the Corvette when it was selling at 3 times the units the V sells.

lunarx
01-14-07, 12:56 PM
Only the base model (slow) corvette comes with an automatic.
I suppose you think the Z06 should be automatic just because the C6 is?
It would be sacrilege to put an auto in the Z06.
If you want to go fast you buy the Z06 and shift.
Same for the V.

News flash automatic buyers: there is an automatic CTS.
You are :welcome: to buy it anytime.
For 08, to make you happy, there is an extra 50HP.
That is the car GM is going to make money on, not the V.

The CTS was very sucessfull for GM.
Didn't they sell 1/4 million of them?
The V is not a stand alone model it's a limited production specialty package.
All major manufacturers offer such packages (more so in foreign markets).
These cars are never intended to carry the line, just enhance the line and get people talking (raving).
I doubt GM wants to sell more V's they really want to sell more CTS.

I personally hate to think how many fried automatic trannies GM would have to rebuild under warranty if they offered an automatic V.
With stick, a smoked clutch means only one thing (usually) and GM is not on the hook for that.
GM keeping the V (& Z06) as stick only, might actually save them money.

If you are going to wish for something, make it something cool like an LS7 not an automatic. :bonkers:

Koooop
01-14-07, 02:08 PM
Are you suggesting that Vettes blow Automatics? They don't. My Vette makes more power than my V, the Auto is trouble free. (no busted rear, half shafts, mounts, no axle tramp). I've driven plenty of big block Vettes with Automatics, just because the top of the line Vette's aren't in Auto today doesn't mean that's forever. To bad to, my Dad replaced his ZR1 in 1999 with an (non ZO6) Auto Vette because needs an Auto now. He's getting a new '07, it won't be a ZO6 (no Auto damn it) but at least he's staying Vette.

I wonder how many rear ends, rear end mounts, motor mounts, half shafts, funny vibrations in 6th, etc. would have been saved if the V was Auto?

The more V's they sell the more likely GM will not drop the line. The sales volume (not to mention the deep discounts and complaining owners) of the CTS-V did not sent a mandate to GM to keep the V in the line up. The sales volume of the V needs to go up or we might say bye bye to our friend the V.

I do believe the late in the run big sales volume success of the CTS was fueled partly by the attention drawn to it by the V, but that's just my opinion.

I want an LS7 with my choice of transmission and choice of color (DSOM please).

dqw1
01-14-07, 02:34 PM
Well, as I recall there weren't alot of V's made and some owners pitched a bitch about this one and we still get another V. As mentioned above, the V series and VR can help sell the other models. The new CTS will sell so I'm not sure how much profit you have to make from the V series.
GM never meant to mass market the V series.

LS1Mike
01-14-07, 02:58 PM
Yeah automatic Vettes are slow...I have seen more than one auto C6 run 12.60 bone stock. Yeah they suck alright...

lunarx
01-14-07, 03:23 PM
Yeah automatic Vettes are slow...I have seen more than one auto C6 run 12.60 bone stock. Yeah they suck alright...
What does a Z06 run stock?
Z06 is the only vette worth having IMHO.

C6, why bother?
I'll take a V any day over a C6.

rand49er
01-14-07, 03:37 PM
I like the idea of manual only CTS-V. I like it even more because it eliminates alot of drivers. I like that I don't see a bunch V's on the road. Keep it exclusive and keep the current grill on the 08. I really don't care if GM doesn't sell a bunch of V's because they don't offer an auto, it was never meant to be that way. You can get an STS-V and there's nothing wrong with that.:yeah:

Lord Cadillac
01-14-07, 04:37 PM
Unfortunately for some, I think everybody is going to have to get used to the fact that the CTS-V is going to be available with an automatic. The Corvette is available in an automatic, there are tons of them on the road, and that doesn't stop anybody from buying them. Stop giving yourself an ulcer about it.

Koooop
01-14-07, 04:41 PM
Unfortunately for some, I think everybody is going to have to get used to the fact that the CTS-V is going to be available with an automatic. The Corvette is available in an automatic, there are tons of them on the road, and that doesn't stop anybody from buying them. Stop giving yourself an ulcer about it.

Lord Cadillac has spoken.

I got my new Autoweek today, the 2008 CTS is the cover girl.

LS1Mike
01-14-07, 04:51 PM
What does a Z06 run stock?
Z06 is the only vette worth having IMHO.

C6, why bother?
I'll take a V any day over a C6.

You are kidding right? The C6 is a world class sports car. There are 6 speed vettes running low 12's and tearing up road courses everyday. Bone stock.
Of Course the Z06 is an awesome car, but not everyone wants to shell out over 50,000 on a car.
If you are serious about the C6, you are not the purist you claim to be.

lunarx
01-14-07, 05:42 PM
You are kidding right? The C6 is a world class sports car. There are 6 speed vettes running low 12's and tearing up road courses everyday. Bone stock.
Of Course the Z06 is an awesome car, but not everyone wants to shell out over 50,000 on a car.
If you are serious about the C6, you are not the purist you claim to be.
I elect to skip the C6 as I'm just not that impressed with it. :rolleyes:
That opinion is based on what I have been witnessing them do at trackdays.
There are plenty of cars that can match the performance level of the C6. :shhh:
Many of which have 4 doors and 4 seats. :hide:
Can't say that about a Z06.
The Z06 is a car I would trade 2 V's for. :drool:
An extra 25K is nothing for what the Z06 gives beyond the C6.
Many guys drop that much in mods.
Once those bad boys can be had w/o the stupid dealer markups I do expect to get one.

Anyways, I am in no way bashing the C6.
It is a great car (but so is the V, as well as www & xxx & yyy & zzz)
I just could never be satisfied with a C6 because I would constantly regret not buying the Z06 instead.
I only called it slow in comparison to the Z06, which nobody can argue.

LS1Mike
01-14-07, 05:54 PM
Thank you for clarifying that. It is a fine car with an excellent drivetrain.
What 4 door cars are you speaking of? As I recall the Base M6 C6 runs track times on par with the top of the line 911.

lunarx
01-14-07, 06:37 PM
Which 911?
S
4S
GT3
GT2

I would be surprized if a C6 could hang with a GT3.
C6 and 4S would be close and depend on the track.
At least 911 is a 4 seater (sort of). ;)

Performance wise, the C6 has it's work cut out for it with the following 4 door cars:
RS4, M5, EVO MR, STi & V with a Maggie ( :yup: had to put that in there).

We all know how wicked STi and EVO are on a roadcourse.
A buddy of mine has a stock engine STi with R tires, race pads and coilovers that runs sick fast laptimes.
I mention it, because it is stock drivetrain.
Is his driving ability far above average? Absolutely.

To get back on topic all cars above are Stick or SMG, except 911 and C6.
GM and Porsche are sellout SUV building companies. :tisk:

HiTechRV
01-14-07, 10:17 PM
Unfortunately for some, I think everybody is going to have to get used to the fact that the CTS-V is going to be available with an automatic. The Corvette is available in an automatic, there are tons of them on the road, and that doesn't stop anybody from buying them. Stop giving yourself an ulcer about it.

Amen! I had a non Z06 Vette and it was a hoot, with a nicer ride than a Z06. The next V will have more HP than my '07. If there is a SC V then it will be wicked fast - auto or manual. Time to revel in the '09 V - it will be here soon and it is going to going to kick a$$. I'll be waiting on the list.

Autom8r
01-14-07, 11:19 PM
Shoot fellers.... I'm one of those "over-60" geezers with a '78 Silver Anniversary sleeper 'Vette with a 355 HP ZZ-4 hooked to a 700R4 slushbox that really puts the hurt on new Mustang GTs and Z-28s in stoplight wars..... and my "old" '04 Corsa'd V will DUST the 'Vette...

If I had anything much faster, I'd spend the last few precious years of my existance on planet earth under the jail....

But I am still crazy about my stickshift Caddy, even tho' I have only put .98 on my g-meter (RH) and .96 (LH) before that damn "Stability-control thing" kicked in....... I still haven't figgered out how to turn that thing off..... probably a good thing though, cause I'm also probably not the driver I was back in the 60's....

I still vote to keep the CTS-V a stick and let the rest of us geezers blow an extra 25 grand on the blown STS-V Northstar slushbox (which is probably one badass ride)....

The sound of a stickshift Corsa'd hotrod Caddy still snaps the mind of the citizens......... especially with a bald geezer behind the wheel....

The exclusivity rules!!!

Dave

lunarx
01-15-07, 12:52 AM
Autom8R for president!! :yup:
Proof that wisdom comes with age.

I can't believe that you guys almost have me wishing I had a C6 to kick around in (not the auto version though).
Of course I would need to put the APS Twin Turbo kit on it.
However, the V is a good enough street car.
For track toys, there are plenty of good ways to go.
That 09 V might even make a kick ass track car, if it is SC and stick (poop on Automatic).
Guess I need to hold out and see what 09 brings.

lawfive
01-15-07, 01:24 AM
All cars should be manual only. No automatics. Anywhere. Ever. Stick it or walk it. I guess.

lunarx
01-15-07, 01:39 AM
The DTS should be an Automatic.
Sorry, I could not resist. :lildevil:

I need to stop working so much and get away from my computer. :banghead:

Since I am not too well schooled on Cadilac history, besides the CTS, were any other Cadillacs offered with a manual trans?

Autom8r
01-15-07, 06:19 AM
I don't think Caddy has offered a stick-shift before CTS since the 40's. Caddy and Olds pioneered the slushboxes about the time Einstein invented the TV.......

Another nifty thing about the CTS-V.... it's a fordor.... my first.... comes in real handy for loading passengers and stuff without folding the seats forward. I wonder if Einstein invented that too.......

Dave

gothicaleigh
01-15-07, 12:29 PM
The CTS-V should have an automatic option to sell more cars and gaurantee the line survives through slow years. The opinion that a manual keeps out the poseurs is rediculous. Give them a couple days and any 14 year old can use a stick. Rowing the gears does not make you a driving purist and I'm willing to bet 90% of current V owners aren't purists either.

You want a purist's car? Drive an e30 M3. No traction control. No stability management. No coddling suspension. No limitless power to cover for your mistakes in the corners. You strap the car on and go. Drive one of those and the V feels like a Fleetwood.

The V is an excellent compromise between luxury and sport. It has, in my opinion, the perfect combination of the two and will surprise many sports cars. But don't ever think it's a "purist's" car.






That said, true driving means selecting your own gears. Anything that gives you more control over the car is a better driving experience.
Automatics have advanced tremendously in the last few years and yes, will oft-times best a manual driven car in acceleration simply because computers process faster than humans and at a lower failure rate.
But automatics can't anticipate upcoming changes in the road. They know what is happening at the moment, but they can't see what is going to happen in the next. Because of this, they don't hold shifts the same through turns. They don't always downshift to the optimal gear or keep you in the powerband. They don't know if you are slowing for a turn and want to keep your revs high to exit quickly or want to smoothly come to a complete stop. For the driving enthusiast, a manual is unquestionably the way to go.

...but there needs to be the option for those who aren't and just want a quick sedan.

Lee6
01-15-07, 12:32 PM
Exactly !!!!!!!!!!

Right On......

Lee6
01-15-07, 12:34 PM
The CTS-V should have an automatic option to sell more cars and gaurantee the line survives through slow years. The opinion that a manual keeps out the poseurs is rediculous. Give them a couple days and any 14 year old can use a stick. Rowing the gears does not make you a driving purist and I'm willing to bet 90% of current V owners aren't purists either.

You want a purist's car? Drive an e30 M3. No traction control. No stability management. No coddling suspension. No limitless power to cover for your mistakes in the corners. You strap the car on and go. Drive one of those and the V feels like a Fleetwood.



perfectly said.......

Lee6
01-15-07, 12:37 PM
except for this:


............they don't hold shifts the same through turns. They don't always downshift to the optimal gear or keep you in the powerband. They don't know if you are slowing for a turn and want to keep your revs high to exit quickly or want to smoothly come to a complete stop.....

so you aren't including the paddle-shifted auto (like the C6) in this statement, are you?

gothicaleigh
01-15-07, 12:40 PM
like i said before......there's an f-body A4 with 4 national championships under it's belt......gotta be plenty of control operating there, to get that many wins

I'm sorry, but I am having a hard time picturing a large car like an F-body, with a solid rear axle, and no way to select gearing, doing well on an auto-x against cars like this:
9Ae5tzDv_C8

Is it a National Champion against other F-bodies perhaps?

Lee6
01-15-07, 12:42 PM
well, yes......it was SCCA and they run in classes...

gothicaleigh
01-15-07, 01:02 PM
well, yes......it was SCCA and they run in classes...

I had assumed.

The problem with using an F-body to prove your auto versus manual point though is that having the best one for auto-x is akin to being the smartest kid on the short bus. ;)


I'm not bashing on F-bodies though. They are great stop-light cars.
Running down a strip is what they were designed to do and they accomplish it very well.

Lee6
01-15-07, 01:05 PM
i give up.....

i'm down on all fours....kneeling to the stick shift idol

LS1Mike
01-15-07, 01:19 PM
You can be suprised what an F-body can do chasing down cones. The last track day I went to at Bremerton there were 42 cars, to include a bunch of small imports. EVOs, STIs and the only time turned faster than my WS6 that day was the instructor in his EVO. I have a 6 speed though. I can't see an auto doing good there maybe on a large course longer than a mile, kind of like Pacific Raceways out here, they have two nice straight aways.
http://www.pacificraceways.com/ You can see the course there.
Don't get me wrong that is not the F-bodies Fortee if you want to compete you will want to do some suspension modifications.
Striaght down the strip is where they do well.
13.10's at 107 were common for my WS6 when it was bone stock.
12.90's at 109 were common for my old 01 Z28. I should have kept that car.

lunarx
01-15-07, 01:36 PM
If having an automatic V means taking some sales away from 300 & Charger SRT slushbox junk, then so be it.
At least it serves a purpose then.

I do think a lot more than 90% of V owners are enthusiast's though.
After all, 100% of them paid the price of admission by giving up the auto.
Many (perhaps 50%) also own other more pure enthusiast cars.
Most of those who are not enthusiasts traded their V's in after 6-12 months for something automatic.

For a lot of us, the V is our socially respectable daily driver with serious track capable hardware lurking beneath its skin to brighten up our day.
In it's current configuration, it accomplishes that task so well.
I'd like to see it get better in performance, not worse.

Koooop
01-15-07, 01:43 PM
Shoot fellers.... I'm one of those "over-60" geezers with a '78 Silver Anniversary sleeper 'Vette with a 355 HP ZZ-4 hooked to a 700R4 slushbox that really puts the hurt on new Mustang GTs and Z-28s in stoplight wars..... and my "old" '04 Corsa'd V will DUST the 'Vette...

I'm one of those "over-40" geezers with bad knees with a '69 L48 Vette with a 425HP 460TQ ZZ383 hooked to a TH400 slushbox, it really puts the hurt on my V in a stop light war :holycrap: .

lawfive
01-15-07, 02:07 PM
According to my source:

July 2008 = manual V
July 2009 = optional automatic
August 2009 = Lunarx abandons his V for fear of being confused with/associated with posers; buys a 1988 Yugo GVX. Sez Lunar, "It may not have 550 horsepower, but it was never offered with a slushbox!"

lunarx
01-15-07, 02:20 PM
According to my source:

July 2008 = manual V
July 2009 = optional automatic
August 2009 = Lunarx abandons his V for fear of being confused with/associated with posers; buys a 1988 Yugo GVX. Sez Lunar, "It may not have 550 horsepower, but it was never offered with a slushbox!"
Yugo track car, Maybe. :rolleyes:
Anyone saw the post on what a stick shift VW Bus can do?

09 could be Z06, M3 or possibly Skyline.
Maybe the V is getting soft, after all, it is a Cadillac.
Although, still keeping fingers crossed that 550HP V is not a pipe dream.

Koooop
01-15-07, 02:21 PM
550 PP (pig power)! This ain't no slushbox! The suspension does feel a little Porky even for a Yugo.

The interior looks like slop!

lawfive
01-15-07, 04:21 PM
Although, still keeping fingers crossed that 550HP V is not a pipe dream.

:werd:

Autom8r
01-25-07, 04:25 PM
Caddy has built roughly 275,000 CTSs and roughly 10,000 CTS-Vs. All the owners are apparently happy, being among the most satisfied in the market (AW numbers). That puts our Vs at about 1 in 27 (1 in 1,000 around Nashville), well under 4% of their production. With a hot 300 HP V6 coming to the slushbox CTS crowd for '08, I'm not looking to see a lot of R&D dough coming from GM to engineer a slushbox into our rods.

My prediction.... exclusivity will continue to rule.....

Dave

lunarx
01-25-07, 05:16 PM
...... I'm not looking to see a lot of R&D dough coming from GM to engineer a slushbox into our rods.

My prediction.... exclusivity will continue to rule.....

Dave
That's music to my ears. :cloud9:
V's for The Few, The Proud, The Men who aren't afraid to use their left foot.

stevesmith54
03-20-08, 05:48 PM
GM should continue to offer the manual transmission. Many other high end cars are available with manual and GM should continue offering Cadillac models with manual, first of all to compete with the otehr manufacturers, and also for those loyal customer who prefer manual.

SkullV
03-20-08, 05:51 PM
Wow....old thread....they are continuing the manual....2009 CTS-V...

Autom8r
03-21-08, 01:45 PM
From what I have seen the V IS getting a slushbox, but it will be a damn good slushbox. I am a geezer, but still enjoy rowing the gears. I also understand an improved 6-speed will be available. I am not all that pleased with the shifter feel on my V and will consider an automatic in my next one.

Why the hell do I NEED 550 HP????? I just WANT it.....

Dave

urbanski
03-21-08, 03:02 PM
GM should continue to offer the manual transmission. Many other high end cars are available with manual and GM should continue offering Cadillac models with manual, first of all to compete with the otehr manufacturers, and also for those loyal customer who prefer manual.

very unwise bump.