: What's wrong with Lincoln Mark VIIs and VIIIs?



mharker
01-09-07, 01:03 PM
I've always been a Cadillac-Buick fan first. But when I was a teen/young adult I also really wanted a Lincoln Mark VII LSC.

I figured by now that much like Caddies, there would be all sorts of well-kept examples out there for sale. Nicely maintained by rich old guys and fully depreciated. Or one-owner estate sales. But I never see any. Would be a nice addition to the collection to grab a nice one for a few thou.

Where are they all? Perhaps many of them might have got junked because expensive electronics, suspension, exhaust makes it a money pit. But yet there are all sorts of Mustangs on the road and engine is similar.

Any you guys ever own one? Work on one? How bad are they? One would expect with all the mustangs out there we'd have a couple enthusiasts, at least for the Mark VII.

RobertCTS
01-09-07, 01:11 PM
I bought a Mark VII new. Loved it. Never took it back for any warranty work. Great ride! Traded it on an Eldorado.

EcSTSatic
01-09-07, 01:26 PM
The Mark VII has the tried and true 5.0 right?

mharker
01-09-07, 01:37 PM
Yeah. Supposed to be similar to Mustang 5.0 engine.

But I see less than 1/2 dozen of them on the road per year. And over the last decade I've seen maybe less than 10 that were customized.

Just wondering what made them nearly extinct by this point. Low demand? High repair costs? Rust?

Lord Cadillac
01-09-07, 01:42 PM
The 5.0 in the Lincoln is exactly the same as the 5.0 in the Mustang.

Go to www.lincolnowners.com for more information on the Mark's...

annie
01-09-07, 01:51 PM
My first car was a black 1990 Mark VII LSC and my last car before my first Cadillac was a 1994 Mark VIII LSC. It is easy to find first gen Mark VIII (93-96)
but the best looking ones are the 97-98s witches only about 45,000 were made over the two years. The only serious issues with all marks were the expensive leaky air suspensions but this could easily be fixed with a $600 coil over conversion. The main reason I still want a 98 LSC is because lowered they handle well and the drive line from engine to rear is 98% mustang cobra.
Think of any mark VII or VIII as a luxed up mustang of the same year. With most of the 95-present mustang cobras weighing over 3700 lbs you can expect the exact same performance numbers if you were to mod an auto mustang cobra and a Mark VIII with the same part.

Check this 11.70 at 118mph second one on street fire, can you say sleeper:http://thumbs.vidiac.com/44e4ef7e-5833-44bc-8a9e-987e01288702.jpg (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/%3Ca%20rel=)
Click to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/44e4ef7e-5833-44bc-8a9e-987e01288702.htm)">http://thumbs.vidiac.com/44e4ef7e-5833-44bc-8a9e-987e01288702.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/44e4ef7e-5833-44bc-8a9e-987e01288702.htm)
Click to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/44e4ef7e-5833-44bc-8a9e-987e01288702.htm)

__________________________________________________ _____________
MY LACS
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annie
01-09-07, 01:56 PM
Yeah. Supposed to be similar to Mustang 5.0 engine.

But I see less than 1/2 dozen of them on the road per year. And over the last decade I've seen maybe less than 10 that were customized.

Just wondering what made them nearly extinct by this point. Low demand? High repair costs? Rust?

I see at lest one of each type everyday here in New York, especially the 93-96 Mark VIII.


__________________________________________________ ___________________________
MY LACS
http://i16.tinypic.com/4hbtsm1.jpg

mharker
01-09-07, 03:31 PM
This redirection from the lounge to this board is lame.

I'm not making a comparison of any cars vs. Cadillacs. Just wanted opinions from other car enthusiasts if they had experience with a specific model.

So... if I have a question about Hyundais (or dishwashers) I get to be on the high-traffic lounge board. But if it's about Lincolns I'm bumped to the low-traffic board?

A big fault of cadillacforums IMO.

Blackout
01-09-07, 04:24 PM
My first car was a 1986 Lincoln Mark VII LSC and the car was great. Never had any issues with it and it was in mint condition and was in the family since it was new. I've also owned a 1995 Mark VIII and that was a great car as well. You can find good condition Mark's but you have to be patient with trying to find them. I would recommend Ebay or a Lincoln forum of some sort

Lord Cadillac
01-09-07, 04:29 PM
I didn't personally move this discussion but you're right - our system is a little quirky.. We should probably just have an "Other Automobiles" section rather than a "Cadillac Versus" section..


This redirection from the lounge to this board is lame.

I'm not making a comparison of any cars vs. Cadillacs. Just wanted opinions from other car enthusiasts if they had experience with a specific model.

So... if I have a question about Hyundais (or dishwashers) I get to be on the high-traffic lounge board. But if it's about Lincolns I'm bumped to the low-traffic board?

A big fault of cadillacforums IMO.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-09-07, 09:05 PM
The Mark VIII is the #1 car I want to buy next. Most specifically, a 95 or 96 LSC in that beautifiul Cream Pearleascent color. I drove a '93 once and loved it, could spin the tires in the rain at 30-35 mph! Great exterior design too IMO, nice low, long, lean, sleek design. A better drivetrain than the Eldorados IMO, RWD, loads of aftermarket, good gas mileage with that V8, luxury appointments, nice dual level dashboard.

The only drawbacks I see are the headlights on the Gen I non LSC's, the air suspension (easy, cheap fix though), and the HVAC blend doors on the gen 2's, mostly the '98s though. Also, since I live in MN, it's not the best winter car, but it's heavy enough (3800 lbs) and I can just throw in a couple of sandbags in the trunk to help.

mharker
01-09-07, 09:19 PM
I didn't personally move this discussion but you're right - our system is a little quirky.. We should probably just have an "Other Automobiles" section rather than a "Cadillac Versus" section..

Thanks for backing me up Lord. Way back in the Cadillac Mailing List (CML) days if you said anything bad about the moderating they'd shut you down!

I like the pace of the Cadillac lounge. Similar Corvette board moves too fast and the Impala SS/Roadmaster is too slow!!

Mark0101
01-09-07, 09:43 PM
but the best looking ones are the 97-98s witches only about 45,000 were made over the two years.



__________________________________________________ _____________
MY LACS
http://i16.tinypic.com/4hbtsm1.jpg (http://http://i16.tinypic.com/4hbtsm1.jpg)
Actually their are only 126,000 Mark VIIIs in the world. 97-98 are ONLY 26,000. So Yea they will be hard to get. I looked at about 11 Mark VIIIs in a period of one year to find a good one. I was only going for Gen II.

mharker
01-09-07, 10:11 PM
I am in Toronto and the for sale listings here are slim for these cars. Despite having 1/10th the population of the US, sometimes we get a lower share on some models. Example instead of having 10% of corvettes produced we have maybe 5% or less. So that must be why I can't find many low-mileage listings.

Did a quick check on autotrader.com in NY, PA, and OH and you folks are right. They are readily available and CHEAP!

Seems like the message on this thread is that they are good cars so low price must be simply low demand. I was thinking maybe they were money pits and people were junking them.

davesdeville
01-10-07, 07:48 AM
There were a lot of Mark VIIs made, and many are still around relative to similar year Eldos and other cars. Fewer Mark VIIIs were made to begin with. I'd say they're like any used car, you'll find a few POS cars, a few nice ones, and a lot in between.

BTW I paid $315 for my air -> coil conversion (5hr labor, I bought the car with a bad air ride,) $150 on an alternator (20 min labor,) and that's it over the 10 months I've owned it.

sj1400
01-10-07, 01:47 PM
I just sold my 98 Mark 8 LSC in Dec. Had the new esv coming and I couldn't stand the thought of leaving the LSC outside or driving it in the snow and salt. They pound the roads with salt here.

Back to the topic.

I owned 2 98 LSC's. The biggest flaw I found comes from vibrations at 80+ mph. If you look in the rear view mirror it's blurry to a certain extent. The cause is Fords decision to use a 2 piece driveshaft. A lot of owners that own gen 2's replaced the drive shaft with the metal matrix unit. Costs about $400 but worth every penny to have a vibration free car - this only affects 97-98 models.

When you buy these cars make sure the blend door isn't broken otherwise you won't have heat. A $25 part that may cost up to $600 to replace at a dealer - dash comes out. The rear neon tail lights have been known to go out - most replace the balast. THis light is $600 at the dealer and hard to find.

Use quality front rotors otherwise they warp easily.

THese are great cars if they have been maintained properly. ALthough I have a new car I miss mine already. Good cars as long as the previous owner kept up on the maint.

mharker
01-11-07, 09:52 PM
So... what would be less trouble to maintain as a collector vehicle? Say a 60,000 mile Mark VII or a 60,000 mile Mark VIII.

I am more nostalgic for Mark VIIs, but Mark VIIIs are pretty awesome too. And they represent the last american rwd coupes so maybe some collector value there.

Jesda
01-12-07, 03:53 AM
A 96 Mark VIII LSC would be ideal for long term ownership. A lot of the 93-96 flaws were worked out, and none of the new flaws for 97-98.

Blackout
01-12-07, 06:13 AM
So... what would be less trouble to maintain as a collector vehicle? Say a 60,000 mile Mark VII or a 60,000 mile Mark VIII.

I am more nostalgic for Mark VIIs, but Mark VIIIs are pretty awesome too. And they represent the last american rwd coupes so maybe some collector value there.Either one would be just fine. Both have built proof engines and as far as I know both have bullet proof tranny's as well. I never really heard of any issues with the tranny's but that doesn't mean that there could be issues. it mostly comes down to if the owner of the car before you kept up with doing maintenance or not

Jesda
01-13-07, 08:02 AM
1-2 accumulator in 93-94(?) needs to be updated with a new one to keep it from burning out at higher miles. One cheap part, and fresh Mercon fluid.

Blackout
01-13-07, 12:49 PM
1-2 accumulator in 93-94(?) needs to be updated with a new one to keep it from burning out at higher miles. One cheap part, and fresh Mercon fluid.And for the 1st gen's it is a really good idea to replace the tranny fluid pan with that pan from a 2nd gen.

Mark0101
01-13-07, 10:15 PM
1-2 accumulator is for the 93-97 Mark VIIIs, so the best one would be the 98 if you don't wanna do it

davesdeville
01-14-07, 07:12 AM
The biggest flaw I found comes from vibrations at 80+ mph. If you look in the rear view mirror it's blurry to a certain extent. The cause is Fords decision to use a 2 piece driveshaft. A lot of owners that own gen 2's replaced the drive shaft with the metal matrix unit. Costs about $400 but worth every penny to have a vibration free car - this only affects 97-98 models.

The 2 piece driveshaft is in all 94-98s, 93s had a 1 piece shaft that is less prone to vibration. The metal matrix shaft will fit all model years.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-14-07, 03:55 PM
I just sold my 98 Mark 8 LSC in Dec. Had the new esv coming and I couldn't stand the thought of leaving the LSC outside or driving it in the snow and salt. They pound the roads with salt here.

Back to the topic.

I owned 2 98 LSC's. The biggest flaw I found comes from vibrations at 80+ mph. If you look in the rear view mirror it's blurry to a certain extent. The cause is Fords decision to use a 2 piece driveshaft. A lot of owners that own gen 2's replaced the drive shaft with the metal matrix unit. Costs about $400 but worth every penny to have a vibration free car - this only affects 97-98 models.

When you buy these cars make sure the blend door isn't broken otherwise you won't have heat. A $25 part that may cost up to $600 to replace at a dealer - dash comes out. The rear neon tail lights have been known to go out - most replace the balast. THis light is $600 at the dealer and hard to find.

Use quality front rotors otherwise they warp easily.

THese are great cars if they have been maintained properly. ALthough I have a new car I miss mine already. Good cars as long as the previous owner kept up on the maint.

Those issues you mentioned are pretty much all of the issues I've read about on these cars, you summed it up very well. My biggest concern on the VIII is the blend door, when it goes, you have no heat or A/C and it's expensive to fix, and mandatory. It seems as though the Gen I's have less problems, but, except for the LSC, they've got horrible headlights. Between the Gen II's, it seems to me, from the owner reviews I've read, that the 97 is less problematic, for whatever reason.


A 96 Mark VIII LSC would be ideal for long term ownership. A lot of the 93-96 flaws were worked out, and none of the new flaws for 97-98.

The 95-96 LSC is the Mark VIII I aspire to own, the only negative to those is the lack of heated seats as an option, because that option wasn't introduced until 1997. I like the Gen I's exterior design more, it looks lower, leaner, longer, the Gen II looks kinda bloated IMO.

AlBundy
01-14-07, 07:05 PM
I'm curently on the look-out for a Mark VII or VIII as I do like the look and think they are great cars but I'm also haveing a hard time finding them in good condition. The VIIs is really difficult to fine.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-14-07, 11:22 PM
I've noticed that too, looking on ebay and on other various sites, the Eldorados always look like they've had better care taken of them.

Blackout
01-15-07, 06:00 AM
I've noticed that too, looking on ebay and on other various sites, the Eldorados always look like they've had better care taken of them.I think it's because of the resale value of those two cars. I see more Mark VIII's being ghetto cruisers since you can pick them up for cheap so all the brotha's buy them to look cool and in the mean time keep shit care of them. I see Mark VIII's all the time around where I work (in the middle of ghetto ass Trenton, NJ) with the air bag's blown on them and the people still riding them around with their 20" rims on there.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-15-07, 10:59 AM
I guess it's kinda hard for me to imagine the VIII as a ghetto cruiser because most ghetto cruisers, to me, are big sedans, not smaller, sportier coupes.

Jesda
01-15-07, 03:47 PM
Sadly, a lot of Lincolns and Infinitis end up abused. The lower resale means cheapskates (like me :)) can pick them up for cheap. Such cheapskates can't afford a full maintenance schedule.

mharker
01-15-07, 11:32 PM
I think it's because of the resale value of those two cars. I see more Mark VIII's being ghetto cruisers since you can pick them up for cheap so all the brotha's buy them to look cool and in the mean time keep shit care of them. I see Mark VIII's all the time around where I work (in the middle of ghetto ass Trenton, NJ) with the air bag's blown on them and the people still riding them around with their 20" rims on there.

HAHAHAHAHA. Being up here in ghetto-free Canada I never thought of that. You're hilarious.

Thanks for all your contributions guys. So I think the Marks are back on my dream list of 70s-90s American luxury cars, which I will someday buy and store, and then my kids will sell for a fortune in Scottsdale 50 years from now! FYI I'm keeping my eyes open for a clean 90-92 5.7 Brougham, mid-80s Buick Regal V8, 71-73 Riv, and Lincoln Mark VII/VIII.

Buy low sell high! Or just dream in technicolor.

LLT
01-16-07, 12:58 AM
I had a '98 Mark VIII LSC - one of the best cars I've ever owned! I loved the way the instrumentation and dash wrapped around you, felt like you were piloting rather than driving.

I'd have to agree that '96 was the best year. All of the first gen issues were worked out and you get a slightly upgraded interior over the '95. IIRC you lose out on HIDs and a couple other little things like telescopic power steering that are found in the '97+, but everything is a tradeoff.

Careful of the suspension - that air bag suspension was expensive should things go awry. :)

Blackout
01-16-07, 06:04 AM
FYI I'm keeping my eyes open for a clean 90-92 5.7 BroughamA 90-92 Brougham? :vomit: 93-96 is where it's at with the LT1

Blackout
01-16-07, 06:07 AM
Careful of the suspension - that air bag suspension was expensive should things go awry. :)Coilover conversion FTW!!!

mharker
01-16-07, 08:30 AM
A 90-92 Brougham? :vomit: 93-96 is where it's at with the LT1

Yeah I know but I already have a clean LT1 Roadmaster. No need for both in my relatively small dream collection.

Blackout
01-16-07, 04:58 PM
Yeah I know but I already have a clean LT1 Roadmaster. No need for both in my relatively small dream collection.
Oh I gotcha:thumbsup: How do you like your Roadmaster?

mharker
01-16-07, 09:57 PM
Oh I gotcha:thumbsup: How do you like your Roadmaster?

Hmmm. I don't get asked much. I searched high and low for the cleanest LT1 RM I could find. Ended up with a burgundy 96 with 90,000kms and posi (G80). Use it as a daily driver but I'm starting to feel like I should preserve it.

It is exceptionally fast for a big car, but the Dynaride suspension on mine is real bouncy. Could always upgrade suspension but I like keeping my cars stock.

But I do have a complaint. Hard to describe, but it's almost like the soul of the car doesn't want to run well. Like it never quite feels 100% even though I keep it well maintained. By comparison, my 68 deville seems like it's happy to be out driving. Start that thing up after a couple weeks of sitting and it roars and wants to go. Hammer on the gas and it sings. Roadmaster just doesn't perform that way.

If you like Roadmasters you should get one soon. Despite popular belief that big sedans are not collectible, there is a shortage of mint condition LT1 RMs unless you want to pay top dollar.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-17-07, 12:00 AM
Hmmm, I had a '95 Roadmaster Limited Sedan, Dark Cherry Metallic with Burgundy Leather interior (probably the same color combo as yours, Mharker), mine had the optional trailer towing package, which included stiffer shocks and springs. Where yours says "DYNARIDE", mine said "Gran Touring Suspension", so I don't think mine would float and bounce like yours does, but I always wondered how one with the standard "DYNARIDE" suspension would ride...probably a lot more like an older Cadillac...mine rode very well, not much bouncing or swaying at all, felt almost too firm and controlled for a 4200 lb Buick..

It's always nice to find another person who's got a Roadmaster.

Destroyer
01-23-07, 01:12 PM
A 90-92 Brougham? :vomit: 93-96 is where it's at with the LT1Take it easy. The '90-'92 Broughams are the last of the old school Caddy's and have the most distinct lines. While I agree that stock the performance isn't all that, they can be modified. Hey, its a RWD GM with a Chevy drivetrain afterall. All suspension components on a newer one or SS Impala will fit. Here's a pic of my '91 before it was lowered with SS springs. I installed an '87 L98 from an Iroc 350, added dual exhaust and several other mods.

AlBundy
01-27-07, 06:37 PM
I see you have those impala rhims as well.