: 97 seville cold crank problem... Help



hero281
01-08-07, 11:16 PM
:mad2: I love my caddie, however I have a problem. since it has been cold 50 it takes sometime 10 minutes to crank my car. especially in the morning or if the car has sat all day. this does not happen when the car is warmed up. When the car is warm is runs like a champ. When it was fall the car started great. The car will turn over but ofthen will not fire. eventually it sputters a few times and cranks. I have replace the FPR, I new plugs and wires (which were replaced prior to this problem). The fuel pump does come on when the key is turned (not started). I need Help


could it be the Coolant temp sensor (ect), fuel pump it self, any other sensor, injectors

boricuacaddy
01-09-07, 08:35 AM
I had the same problem on my car, when it was cold it would take a few cranks to get it started. I did exactly what you did, changed the FPR. and it helped. but when I left my car sitting for a few day it kept doing it again. it would even let out woosh! sound after it did finally start. Someone suggested that maybe my battery did not have enough juice to crank it properly, since it wasn't a daily driver and sometimes sat for weeks. So, I bought one of those trickle chargers and hooked it up and guess what? it worked! Now my car starts up on the first crank everytime. I don't know if this is your problem but I just wanted to share what was wrong with mine.


David

Ranger
01-09-07, 11:22 AM
You might also check the fuel pressure. Could be a weak pump.

dkozloski
01-09-07, 01:24 PM
If everything is up to snuff your car should start at -27F cold soaked per GM Powertrain engineers.

hero281
01-10-07, 10:56 AM
thanks guys, i am going with ramger and get fuel pressure tested. I pulled the fpr off after setting over night and it did not spray out. which means it may not be under pressure!

Cad tech
01-10-07, 02:30 PM
Try a fuel pressure regulator, know if steel or nylon rail when u get it. easy to install


Relieve fuel system pressure. Refer to Fuel Pressure Relief Procedure .



Clean any dirt from the fuel pressure retaining ring.
Remove the vacuum hose from the pressure regulator.
Remove the retaining ring.
Catch any spilled fuel using a shop towel.
Lift and twist the fuel pressure regulator from the fuel rail socket.
Cover the fuel pressure regulator housing to prevent contamination from entering the fuel system.
Clean the fuel pressure regulator filter screen with gasoline.
Installation Procedure

Important
When servicing the fuel pressure regulator, insure that the O-ring backup, large O-ring, filter screen, and small O-ring are properly placed on the regulator.






Install the new O-rings on the fuel pressure regulator, if a new fuel pressure regulator is not being installed.
Insert the regulator into the fuel rail socket using a turning motion to properly seat the O-rings.
Install the retaining ring.
Install the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator.



Install the intake manifold top cover. Tighten
Tighten the nuts to 2 Nm (18 lb in).


Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the negative battery cable.
Inspect for leaks.
Turn the ignition switch ON for 2 seconds.
Turn the ignition switch OFF for 10 seconds.
Turn the ignition switch ON.
Check for fuel leaks.

clarkz71
01-10-07, 03:45 PM
Good instructions, sounds just like the FSM.

Cad tech
01-10-07, 04:16 PM
SI2000 lol hate typing

hero281
01-10-07, 07:16 PM
cad tech,

I understand what you are saying! but i replace the fpr already? with new part and seals etc...

Clarkz71, what does fsm stand for?

Thanks.

Cad tech
01-10-07, 07:29 PM
Was the regulator for the new updated steel fuel rail????? or the old nylon rail???? 2 different parts....if you have the nylon still go to dealer and get the new rail put on they should have phased it everywhere now....then tell them to replace the regulator at that time should do it for free since they have to dismantle the old one and reuse your injectors and regulator, they just put new o-rings on.....

Ranger
01-10-07, 08:34 PM
cad tech,

I understand what you are saying! but i replace the fpr already? with new part and seals etc...

Clarkz71, what does fsm stand for?

Thanks.
FSM = Factory Service Manual

hero281
01-10-07, 08:47 PM
Cad tech,

I have the steel rail. I also have a new battery, new hoses, new radiator, new thermostant as well.

Thanks

Cad tech
01-10-07, 08:56 PM
Kay easy check cycle key on without cranking then off then once more when cold then try to start if it starts right up replace regulator...........what you are doing is priming the fuel system, what happens is the fuel leaks back into the tank so there is no initail burst of gas by doing this procedure will eliminate this guesswork........

hero281
01-10-07, 09:44 PM
and if it does not crank then its the fuel pump? what about coolant temp sensor?

Ranger
01-10-07, 09:50 PM
Fuel pump has nothing to do with "cranking". That is the starters job. If it does not "start" it may be the fuel pump.

Cad tech
01-10-07, 10:14 PM
Meaning do not crank it just turn key on let everything light all up wait 5 seconds then turn it off cycle it on again..this is pressurizing the fuel system on third time crank it, turn the engine over, if it starts right away then the problem is the regulator..
as far as the coolant temp sensor is concerned it has to be checked with tech2, if it reads -40 that could be a problem but mostlikely not because you have no other symtons, like o/h or weird coolant temp swing.......
u may also have problem with map sensor and others control componants, and since the vehicle is not in my shop.....we have to procede this way
sorry

hero281
01-10-07, 11:25 PM
how much does a fuel pressure tester cost

clarkz71
01-11-07, 04:59 AM
You can get a basic one for under a $100. Try Autozone or Advance, they rent tools.

Ranger
01-11-07, 05:58 PM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000I9V890/becomecom-20/ref=nosim

1997BlackETC
01-11-07, 09:00 PM
I believe there is check valve inside the fuel pump which is in the fuel tank and that check valve could be bad therefore releasing pressure so cold starts require a lot of cranking. I have 1993 deville and it does the same thing, started happening after I replaced a bad fuel pump with a new one, I figure it must be defective (maybe a out of round check ball or something) but I just live with it as I dont feel like dropping the fuel tank again, it always seems to start ok after 3 five second bursts, hopefully the starter wont go next, lol. When warm it starts like normal. The way to check for this for sure is leave a fuel pressure gauge on it for a few hours and see if it drops, if it drops, there lies the problem, bad fuel pump check valve.

Cad tech
01-12-07, 08:57 AM
your 93 deville had a different system entirely, you must remember that comparing and relating diagnosis between 4.6L and 4.1,4.5,4.9 is a totally different system, on the 93 deville with that system for that complaint is a updated sock which is larger....that is why the check valve went out prematurely...

1997BlackETC
01-12-07, 12:34 PM
So no check valve with the northstars in the fuel pump? Like I said, with mine the check valve was shot when I put the pump in new, defective.

clarkz71
01-12-07, 12:51 PM
Northster fuel pump. Note, #5 is the fuel pump check valve.


#5

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/Fuelpump-1.jpg

Cad tech
01-12-07, 01:08 PM
did I say no check valve????????hmmmmm NO......I am saying that comparing the problems across body and engine designs is not comparitive to control problems across this engine and body lines...that is what leads to wrong diaginosis and parts chucking.....

What is the problem????if my help is not wanted...............

clarkz71
01-12-07, 01:11 PM
I don't think he doesn't want your help, I think you gave him the impression that he was wrong about the check valve when you said his deville had a totally different system.

Cad tech
01-12-07, 01:21 PM
I believe there is check valve inside the fuel pump which is in the fuel tank and that check valve could be bad therefore releasing pressure so cold starts require a lot of cranking. I have 1993 deville and it does the same thing, started happening after I replaced a bad fuel pump with a new one, I figure it must be defective (maybe a out of round check ball or something) but I just live with it as I dont feel like dropping the fuel tank again, it always seems to start ok after 3 five second bursts, hopefully the starter wont go next, lol. When warm it starts like normal. The way to check for this for sure is leave a fuel pressure gauge on it for a few hours and see if it drops, if it drops, there lies the problem, bad fuel pump check valve.

the camparison between a 93deville and a 97 seville is what I am referring to.that 93 deville unless it is a d'ele is different engine thus different animal...

clarkz71
01-12-07, 01:25 PM
Correct, but he was saying they both have check valves in the fuel pump, even though one is a 4.9 & the other a 4.6.