: Need northstar balancer install tools.



metro107
03-11-04, 06:59 PM
Getting ready to reassemble my 94 northstar,going to need specialty tools for harmonic balancer installation.looking for any suggestions.

zonie77
03-11-04, 07:51 PM
Have you checked with Checker or Auto Zone?

metro107
03-11-04, 09:11 PM
Have you checked with Checker or Auto Zone?yeah,i delt with auto zone on a couple of occasions already,they provided me with pullers for balancer and water pump pulley but no luck with install tools,looks like i may have to purchase them from kent moore tools, probably pay a small fortune unless i can find them on e-bay or something. thanks anyways zonie.

Lawrence
03-11-04, 09:16 PM
If you can find a good hardware store, all you need is a bolt just like the original, only longer.

I'm lucky in that, as my local hardware store has most any size nuts and bolts.

zonie77
03-11-04, 09:57 PM
We didn't use an install tool but a longer bolt like Lawrence suggested.

Make sure the crank snout is clean and doesn't have any burrs. use some lube on it. Use a long enough bolt to allow a washer under the bolt head and grease the washer to minimize friction. After you get in in enough switch to the factory bolt.

metro107
03-12-04, 03:26 PM
If you can find a good hardware store, all you need is a bolt just like the original, only longer.

I'm lucky in that, as my local hardware store has most any size nuts and bolts.heh lawrence, hows your n* project going? I just finished serting block and anticipating specialty tools as i said.I own a very high quality harmonic balancer install kit but it does not have the thread adapter i need(18mm-1.50 thread pitch)not a common size.As for using long bolt nut&washer great idea if i could find that size anywhere. everyone here in CT say it's a very uncommon size.If anyone out there knows where i can get one or even send me one i would gladly pay for it.also {need flywheel holding tool} to achieve correct torque on balancer bolt,this is a crucial torque setting since oil pump drive sleeve depends on it.I'd hate to blow the engine after all this work. All responces appreciated, thanks!:coolgleam

Lawrence
03-13-04, 01:10 PM
heh lawrence, hows your n* project going? I just finished serting block and anticipating specialty tools as i said.I own a very high quality harmonic balancer install kit but it does not have the thread adapter i need(18mm-1.50 thread pitch)not a common size.As for using long bolt nut&washer great idea if i could find that size anywhere. everyone here in CT say it's a very uncommon size.If anyone out there knows where i can get one or even send me one i would gladly pay for it.also {need flywheel holding tool} to achieve correct torque on balancer bolt,this is a crucial torque setting since oil pump drive sleeve depends on it.I'd hate to blow the engine after all this work. All responces appreciated, thanks!:coolgleam

Mine went into the car yesterday and should be running tomorrow.

I did mine the way you are NOT suppoesed to, and used the OEM bolt. Before I made a trip to the store I started the OEM bolt to gauge how long I would need the new one. It went in 900 degrees so I applied a little tension to it and was surprised how easy it moved on. So I just kept going, and saved a trip. I was never in any danger. That is mine though and I wouldn't recommend it. BTW, I had needle bearing grease on it.

So, I don't have the bolt or I would send it to you. I'll call there now and check to see if they have it.

Lawrence
03-13-04, 01:20 PM
I phoned my local Hardware store and they don't have it, 16mm max. When they don't have one I go to Columbus Fastener, but they are closed until Monday. Below is a link to there website (no catalog), where you can get their phone number. I am going out in a bit so if I run across one I'll let you know but it's a longshot.

http://www.colfast.com/columbuscentral.aspx

metro107
03-14-04, 07:35 AM
I phoned my local Hardware store and they don't have it, 16mm max. When they don't have one I go to Columbus Fastener, but they are closed until Monday. Below is a link to there website (no catalog), where you can get their phone number. I am going out in a bit so if I run across one I'll let you know but it's a longshot.

http://www.colfast.com/columbuscentral.aspxThanks for the info lawrence and lots of luck today.I guess i'll try pullinfg it on with factory bolt if i can catch enough thread,your right it really did seem to slide off crank easily maybe mine will go back on just as easy.How were you able to accomplish correct torque setting without OEM flywheel holding tool,they really want that bolt extremly tight(105 ft lbs +120 degrees) approx 300-350 ft lbs.I was thinking about using my impact gun once i get it properly seated unless i can locate flywheel tool.I should be on the road cruisin in a couple days if all goes well.:)

growe3
03-15-04, 08:37 AM
To tighten the crankshaft bolt I placed a long pry tool through a flexplate hole to jamb it. I had a friend hold it to avoid any slipping while I tightened the bolt.

I used a 1/2" breaker bar with 3' of cheater pipe on it.

It is very important to get that bolt tightened correctly or your oil pump can fail.
-George

Lawrence
03-15-04, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the info lawrence and lots of luck today.I guess i'll try pullinfg it on with factory bolt if i can catch enough thread,your right it really did seem to slide off crank easily maybe mine will go back on just as easy.How were you able to accomplish correct torque setting without OEM flywheel holding tool,they really want that bolt extremly tight(105 ft lbs +120 degrees) approx 300-350 ft lbs.I was thinking about using my impact gun once i get it properly seated unless i can locate flywheel tool.I should be on the road cruisin in a couple days if all goes well.:)

I had mine on an engine stand. I just had a helper hold the teeth with a screwdriver. The teeth were less than an inch from the engine stand, so it was easy.

You can get a hand held flywheel holder at Harbour Freight Tools for a few bucks. Or you use a BIG screwdriver. Either way you'll need someone to hold it for you while you tighten the balancer. If you go with a screwdriver you just need to put the blade into the teeth of the flywheel and let it rest against the bellhousing. The teeth are strong enough that they won't break.

You might also see what you could rig up at the starter hole.

With the diameter of the flywheel it doesn't take as much effort to hold the flywheel as you might think.

Lawrence
03-15-04, 11:04 PM
To tighten the crankshaft bolt I placed a long pry tool through a flexplate hole to jamb it. I had a friend hold it to avoid any slipping while I tightened the bolt.

I used a 1/2" breaker bar with 3' of cheater pipe on it.

It is very important to get that bolt tightened correctly or your oil pump can fail.
-George

George, can you get a hole with the motor in the car?

Lawrence
03-15-04, 11:27 PM
I guess i'll try pullinfg it on with factory bolt if i can catch enough thread,your right it really did seem to slide off crank easily maybe mine will go back on just as easy.

I really wouldn't advise you do this. If you do be very very careful, use very little pressure and make sure you see the pulley moving forward. If not STOP. Remember if you pull a thread, you'll be replacing the motor.

I know I did it, but that doesn't mean anything. Over the years I've devolped a feel that I trust for these king of things.

metro107
03-15-04, 11:46 PM
I really wouldn't advise you do this. If you do be very very careful, use very little pressure and make sure you see the pulley moving forward. If not STOP. Remember if you pull a thread, you'll be replacing the motor.

I know I did it, but that doesn't mean anything. Over the years I've devolped a feel that I trust for these king of things.Today was my lucky day,went to local dealership for parts and found out that my cousin is the general manager. To make a long story short he hooked me up with everything i needed including a degree indicator for torqueing.They said holding flywheel was not absolutely nessesary if i had a good half inch impact gun capable of at least 400 ft lbs of torque.Thats how they do it?just needs to be extremely tight and you really can't over tighten it unless you really try.

dloch
03-16-04, 12:11 PM
Today was my lucky day,went to local dealership for parts and found out that my cousin is the general manager. To make a long story short he hooked me up with everything i needed including a degree indicator for torqueing.They said holding flywheel was not absolutely nessesary if i had a good half inch impact gun capable of at least 400 ft lbs of torque.Thats how they do it?just needs to be extremely tight and you really can't over tighten it unless you really try.
I wouldn't use an impact gun to tighten the balancer bolt for the same reason you wouldn't use one to tighten the head bolts or the mains.

jmo

Lawrence
03-16-04, 02:31 PM
I wouldn't use an impact gun to tighten the balancer bolt for the same reason you wouldn't use one to tighten the head bolts or the mains.

jmo

I agree. I have all the air tools and never use them to tighten any bolt. I don't trust them.

I wouldn't worry about over tightening as much as undertightening. The crank will "give' to the impacts of the gun no matter the guns potential.

That aside you should never use them on a crank for damage to the crank.

BeelzeBob
03-17-04, 05:31 PM
I hate impacts for installing stuff....but.....the crank damper bolt is probably one exception to the rule that would be allowed. IF the damper is pulled on and seated FULLY and the initial torque is completed on the bolt you can mark the bolt with a paint dot and use the impact to achieve the 120 degrees of rotation that will take the 300 ft lb. That bolt is big enough that the impact will not damage it (LOL) and if you mark it to track the movement you can turn it 120 degrees with the impact. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT use the impact to pull the damper on or anything like that. Using an impact to pull the damper on will definitely damage the bolt threads as described below...but...once the damper is seated and the bolt is screwed in all the way the impact can be used to get the 120 degrees of rotation after the initial torque of the bolt is achieved.

The bolt tensioning spec was deliberately set at 120 degrees so that you can use the spokes on the damper as a gauge....they are 120 degrees apart...(three spokes...360 degrees....3 X 120 = 360 ) So just mark the bolt after the initial torque and use the impact.

Lawrence's way of installing the damper will sometimes work but usually what happens is that the first few threads of the bolt will bend or distort and then as the bolt is turned in all the way (it has a LOT of thread engagement) the distorted threads will jam and seize ruining the crank. Lawrence, Are you positively sure that the bolt didn't just tighten up in the hole instead of seating the damper fully??? It can be very deceiving as it tightens up and then you torque and angle it and it feels like it is very tight going to the 120 degree angle....but the damper is not being clamped.....and the oil pump drive will slip.

Lawrence
03-18-04, 10:08 PM
Lawrence, Are you positively sure that the bolt didn't just tighten up in the hole instead of seating the damper fully??? It can be very deceiving as it tightens up and then you torque and angle it and it feels like it is very tight going to the 120 degree angle....but the damper is not being clamped.....and the oil pump drive will slip.

I am positively sure. After the intial few rotations, about half way and again after the balancer seated I backed it up and ran it out and in by hand. Free as a bird. Again I wouldn't recommend it.

BTW: It is acceptable in general to use an impact on automotive cranks? Or just a few to include the NS? Never knew that. I'll admit, years ago, I have tried to remove a couple, with no luck. I remeber one I used a 400+lb wrench on it and couldn't get it to move. Crank just turned and I could feel every blow in my hands. I didn't have the courage to block it up and use an impact on it. I figured if I had to block it up I might just as well remove it by hand. Out of curiousity I used a torque wrench to remove it and it came off quite easy at about 100 ft lbs. I've seen specific warnings on 2 stroke motorcycles and marine engines not to do it. Of course these are hardened needle bearing cranks usually with tapered seats, so that doesn't count. But lately I have seen at least one Honda automobile with a straight press fit balancer that also recommends against impacts on the bolt, or even hand torquing the balancer against the flywheel. Honda had a special holding fixture that held the balancer. I called the dealer for a price, it was like $200. I asked him if it was really necessary and if I couldn't just block up the flywheel. He said don't do it, just bring it by and he would break it for me, which I/he did. Great guy BTW. I tried hard to give him $20 for lunch and he just wouldn't take it. He just said when there was something he "could do" bring it in to them. I'll have to say though, even years before I came across these engines, I have just always made it a habit to never do it. Couldn't say exactly where I came up with that. Just one of those things you know but don't remember why. Or thought you knew........

Lawrence
03-18-04, 10:23 PM
I guess here is as good a place to post this as anywhere.

Many Many Thanks to bbobynski, growe3, zonie77 for all your help with my NS project! And anyone else I may have left out.

It is finished and running as new. I had it down a few weeks, I suppose, and when I started it up it ran as if I had turned it off 10 mins ago. And the best part of all, no oil leak! Smells pretty as a daisy!

BeelzeBob
03-19-04, 01:05 PM
I guess here is as good a place to post this as anywhere.

Many Many Thanks to bbobynski, growe3, zonie77 for all your help with my NS project! And anyone else I may have left out.

It is finished and running as new. I had it down a few weeks, I suppose, and when I started it up it ran as if I had turned it off 10 mins ago. And the best part of all, no oil leak! Smells pretty as a daisy!


Glad to hear it... I was wondering how it was going....

I don't condone impacts on anything, really. But, the cranks are pretty robust and I wouldn't worry too much about hurting anything with an impact on the large crank damper bolt...as long as the impact is ONLY used to turn the bolt to an angle that is carefully monitored then it shouldn't hurt anything. Definitely do NOT use an impact to pull the damper on or anything like that....