: CTS-V vs 6 speed M5

01-06-07, 09:44 AM
The latest Car and Driver shows the stats on the M5 to be within a tenth of our cars. Specifically it looks like we are a tenth quicker to 60, and they are a tenth quicker in the quarter. The reason for this performance drop for the M5 is their agressive electronic nannies which cannot be turned off. GM could have done this and we would has had no wheel hop and greatly reduced drive train issues (diff), but our cars would have had their performance similarly hobbled in the process. I have to say I think our high threshold, multi mode electronic aids are best in class, with high thresholds and the ability to take them entirely out of the performance driving picture if desired. And Kudos to Tom Stephens and crew for continuing to beef up the drive drain over the live of this car, instead of just hobling it to keep warranty costs down as some companies would have done immediately in 2004.

IMO the CTS-V was always intended to be an M5 beater. I find it entertaining and ironic that at the end of its first generation run - suddenly it is.

The Tony Show
01-06-07, 09:53 AM
I always use the class exlusive 4-mode traction/stability control as a selling point for the V against imports, even on the STS-V and XLR-V. You'd be amazed how many people don't realize the difference this can make.

I agree 100%: Good post!

01-06-07, 10:16 AM
they sure didnt like the m5 in that article :D

01-06-07, 10:21 AM
WHAT??? C&D not liking a non-American made car??? I'm shocked! :highfive:

01-06-07, 10:25 AM

Yea, being an ///M Bimmer Owner for over 18 yrs & owning all except the new M5 or M6. All I know is out of all the ///M cars I've owned I never had to bring them back for issues. Also keep in mind that the M5 weighs more than our V. I went with the V since I wanted to check out our American made vehicles. I just got rid of my modified hemi Magnum which they have tranny problems, went through my 1st with less than 7k miles. Now with our V's well I never had any problems with it yet with almost 21k miles on the clock for an '04. So we need to take those articles with a grain of salt since they are always favored one way or the other.


The Tony Show
01-06-07, 10:31 AM
So we need to take those articles with a grain of salt since they are always favored one way or the other.


Yeah- they're always in favor of the Bimmer! I'll take my victories where I can get them. Can't wait to see the hate mail next month from the BMW faithful. :histeric:

01-06-07, 06:19 PM
Yeah, BMW could have made the 6 speed M5 the absolute baddest sedan on the planet. What the hell are they doing over there? I'm a Bimmer fan but I do enjoy knowing I can make an M5's owner very nervous...

Late BrakeU2
01-06-07, 06:52 PM
They made the manual specifcally for the U.S.market,and blew it with the full time T/C,They are getting flamed for it best believe that feature will be changed on 08's.
If you think V's drop take a look at 5/7 M series depreciation.Personally i'd rather have the V and the extra 50k.

01-06-07, 07:28 PM
... Personally i'd rather have the V and the extra 50k.Yeah, and putting a tenth of that savings back into the V, you can make an M5 owner a whole lot more than just nervous. :thumbsup:

01-06-07, 08:53 PM
why not buy the V take that 50k, and slap down a maggie on it, then watch the M's in the rear view! and still ahve tons of money left over for tires! ha ha

01-07-07, 01:27 PM
Post the stats/article. I couldn't find it on the web.

01-07-07, 03:28 PM
An RS4 could take 'em both. :stirpot:

01-07-07, 03:44 PM
Post the stats/article. I couldn't find it on the web.

E63 won with 231 objective+subjective C&D points. S6 was next with 230. M5 trailed with 213.

E63: 507 hp/465 torque; 0-60 4.2; rolling 60 4.5; 0-100 9.7; 1/4 12.6@115. 4,320 lbs; 51.9% front/48.1% rear; 7-speed auto.

S6: 435/398; 5.4; 5.8; 12.7; 13.8@104. 4,540; 59%/41%; 6-sp auto.

M5: 500/383; 4.7; 5.0; 10.3; 13.0@114. 4,150; 51.2%/48.8%; 6-sp manual.

Late BrakeU2
01-07-07, 03:57 PM
An RS4 could take 'em both. :stirpot:


01-07-07, 04:29 PM

Oh, thanks man, that's a superb vid.

"Now, Cadillac's made a sports salooooon..."

"Designed by someone who only had a ruler..."

Whoa there, pardner, have ya seen them there Bangles...
"Because of course, everyone speaks English..." (nav button markings)

:histeric: :histeric: :histeric: America: Leading the world in... leading the world. If nothing else, ya gotta love our xenocentricty.

"The gearbox is rubbish..."

Too true.
"There's nothing you can put your finger on; it just... feels... cheap..."

I'm guessing he's never BEEN in a '70 Cuda. We're not planning on hosting the book club in the V...

01-07-07, 05:00 PM
To be sure I am understanding this correctly, you guys are saying that the M5 is equal in speed to our cars? I hate to tell you but it aint even close! That mag who tested the M5 with a 6sp must have had Homer Simpson driving it because it will literally kill our cars. A maggied V with approx. 450rwhp would be a good run for the M5 and either of the two could win. Our stock crappy 340rwhp will be toast against the worst driver of an M5 FYI! I love my V but it needs more HP!

01-07-07, 06:33 PM
The current M5 did not have a manual. With the sequential shift auto it is faster than a V. BMW slapped in the last generation of 6 speed to try to quiet the crys for a manual. When they did they got severe wheel hop (duh). They decided to protect themselves from big warranty claims by putting agressive, non-disengagable traction and stability control in to stop the hop. This made the manual slower - now the same as our V's.