: How Can This Be?



Vdrenaline
12-26-06, 09:46 PM
Have a 2004 V with 45,600 miles.
Leased in 3/2004 w/ $1000 down
Lease goes until 2/28/08
Monthly lease payment is $723
4 Months ago I asked Wells Fargo what my buyout amount would be. At that time they quoted $31,000.
Now 4 months later, they quote $34,500.
How can that be that the buyout price has increased?
Someone please help me understand this.
Thanks!

heavymetals
12-26-06, 09:51 PM
That monthly is ridiculous.

You should have bought the doggone thing.:thepan:

ctsvflorida
12-26-06, 09:56 PM
Have a 2004 V with 45,600 miles.
Leased in 3/2004 w/ $1000 down
Lease goes until 2/28/08
Monthly lease payment is $723
4 Months ago I asked Wells Fargo what my buyout amount would be. At that time they quoted $31,000.
Now 4 months later, they quote $34,500.
How can that be that the buyout price has increased?
Someone please help me understand this.
Thanks!

Yikes!

BLACK_CTSV
12-26-06, 09:58 PM
Is it anything to do with exceeding the mileage allocation?

DILLIGAF
12-26-06, 10:02 PM
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!30 grand lease,is my math close?No calc handy

ctsvflorida
12-26-06, 10:07 PM
Wow, maybe you're right, the mileage! Ooooof!

For the guy who said 30grand lease and asked if the math was correct? Well...close, let's try 723 x 48 and 1000 down this equals...ballpark figure in my head...$35,800! Oooooof again!

Vdrenaline
12-26-06, 10:10 PM
They have no idea what the miles are. It is an automated quote over the phone.

DILLIGAF
12-26-06, 10:13 PM
Wow, maybe you're right, the mileage! Ooooof!

For the guy who said 30grand lease and asked if the math was correct? Well...close, let's try 723 x 48 and 1000 down this equals...ballpark figure in my head...$35,800! Oooooof again!
Yikes!!!!!

Vdrenaline
12-26-06, 10:23 PM
OK Guys thanks for making me feel even worse.
Now can anyone explain how the buyout amount has increased?

heavymetals
12-26-06, 10:27 PM
OK Guys thanks for making me feel even worse.
Now can anyone explain how the buyout amount has increased?

MILEAGE if not that, then your getting hosed.

You probably figured that out by now.

The only way I would lease a car is if I could "write it off" of my taxes.

DILLIGAF
12-26-06, 10:27 PM
OK Guys thanks for making me feel even worse.
Now can anyone explain how the buyout amount has increased?
Sorry bro,didn't mean for that at all:alchi: .I have no idea unless the trade values have gone up on our cars,don't see how that could happen either.Maybe pm one of the authorized dealers in here,they"ll know more about it than anyone.

The Tony Show
12-26-06, 10:35 PM
They probably stuck you with a ridiculously high money factor, and as time has passed that has added up faster than your payments can keep up with.

heavymetals
12-26-06, 10:48 PM
This may be after the fact, but some good info:

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/lease.htm

The Tony Show
12-26-06, 11:24 PM
That's an interesting link, but there's so much bad information in there it's staggering.

ntechnic
12-27-06, 01:13 AM
That link has some good warnings for naive car buyers, but there is indeed a lot of bad information in there, it's obviously biased against leasing.

For example, if you own a business, or can otherwise deduct car expenses, leasing is a 100% write as it occurs with no amortization.

heavymetals
12-27-06, 01:51 AM
Like I said, I would not lease a car unless I could "write it off".

You should also note what a "write off" means.

You still have to pay the money and what do you have left to show for it?

Kadonny
12-27-06, 10:19 AM
It is impossible for it to increase if you are making payments.

Look at your lease, it specifies a buyout amount of the car at the end of the lease. From there they add the remaining payments (approximately) and that should be your buyout.

Try that and see what you come up with.

Florian
12-27-06, 10:23 AM
jeez, my monthly is only a few bux more and I bought......same time frame to boot.


F

nikon
12-27-06, 10:35 AM
jeez, my monthly is only a few bux more and I bought......same time frame to boot.


F

my monthly is 150+ cheaper than that lease payment, and I too bought mine...used, but still...thats insane.

The Tony Show
12-27-06, 10:37 AM
It is impossible for it to increase if you are making payments.

Look at your lease, it specifies a buyout amount of the car at the end of the lease. From there they add the remaining payments (approximately) and that should be your buyout.

Try that and see what you come up with.

Unless it's a non-traditional lease with a flexible balloon at the end, in which case fluctuations in market value can increase or decrease the buyout.

Kadonny
12-27-06, 11:12 AM
Agreed Tony, but you just don't see those leases at all anymore. 99% of leases are closed end anymore, not open end (which is what you talked about).

If you sign an open ended lease, boy shame on you.

nickc50310
12-27-06, 12:28 PM
I hope they at least used some lube......

kgoch
12-27-06, 01:43 PM
Look on your lease documents. It should have the buyout amount listed on the lease. I lease 5-8 vehicles a year and all of the lease documents have the buyout amount listed.

rand49er
12-27-06, 02:49 PM
Look on your lease documents. It should have the buyout amount listed on the lease. I lease 5-8 vehicles a year and all of the lease documents have the buyout amount listed.That's what I thought. I haven't leased a vehicle since the 80's when I could consider (construe?) it as "a necessary business expense" allowing me to include it as an expense against revenue, but isn't the buyout always specified upfront on/in the lease agreement?

Kadonny
12-27-06, 03:26 PM
That's what I thought. I haven't leased a vehicle since the 80's when I could consider (construe?) it as "a necessary business expense" allowing me to include it as an expense against revenue, but isn't the buyout always specified upfront on/in the lease agreement?

They do almost all of the time, but as I and Tony discussed earlier in the thread there are "open ended" leases that do not state a buyout. The buyout fluctuates with the market value of the car at the time of the lease end. Years ago people got burnt with these open ended leases but they just don't write them anymore because of that reason.

I would bet almost every lease written in the past 5 years, maybe 10 years are all closed end leases with a set buyout. Not to say that he couldn't have signed an open ended lease, but I would highly doubt it.

The Tony Show
12-27-06, 03:37 PM
With that payment on a 4 year lease, I wouldn't put anything past them. Stuff like this pisses me off too, because it's this very thing that makes people distrust salespeople. You don't have to be an F-ing crook to make a very good living as a sales professional, yet so many do it since it's the easiest way.

BigAndyZV
12-27-06, 04:05 PM
Unless it's a non-traditional lease with a flexible balloon at the end, in which case fluctuations in market value can increase or decrease the buyout.

Tony has it right, its not really considered a balloon at the end, or an open ended lease, what it sounds like is your Interest Rate is "floating", meaning instead of a fixed IR, they lured you in with a very low one, then after a specified period of time, the IR floats up, most likely to match the current T-Bill rate or some other factor. This method is used all the time, especially in mortgages. Its actually a great way to get very low interest, and smaller pymts, hwever you must sell or refinance before the date that the rate no longer becomes fixed, because then your monthly payments dont even cover the inteterst you are accruing and your balance actually increases every month, even though you are making every payment!! BASTARDS!!

p.s.- next time b4 you sign any kind of loan, have a friend, lawyer, accountant, etc... look at the terms if you are not educated enough to fully grasp how the loan works and what it means to your finances. I have seen peoples lives get ruined over loans like this. The Finance guy took advantage of you knowing you wouldnt delve into the fine details simply bc you didnt know any better, he probably came off as trying to be your best friend!! Imagine instead of a 30K car, this was a 300K house!!! Get the hell out of that loan and go buy a used one!!!

Kadonny
12-27-06, 05:17 PM
Honestly? I never heard of a floating interest rate on a lease. Housing? Yes, all the time but never on cars.

I still bet someone misquoted his buyout or the account number got screwed up or something else.

roadracerx72
12-27-06, 05:37 PM
I had a lease on a 97 Z28 with a buyout of 8750.00 at the end. I planned to buy it at the end of the lease but the car decided to hit a house and someones van first. With 6 payments left the bank deducted what I owed and what the car was worth and I got a check for 7000.00.

The Tony Show
12-27-06, 05:58 PM
You should have bought a lottery ticket that day- that almost never happens.

GMAC leases come standard with GAP protection, but all that does is pays off the lease and allows you to walk away without owing money (unlike the HORROR story depicted in the link above :D)

Vdrenaline
12-29-06, 10:59 PM
Guys, I am SOOOOO SORRY. I mixed up the earlier payment with another lease. The lease buyout did in fact go down: from $36,440 to current $34,500.
Sorry for the fire drill.
Lease of $723 per month based on price of $49,423 with $1000 down, 48 months and 48k miles was best available at the time, which was when the V first hit the market. I gues you pay when you want to be the first on the block with a limited edition car. I am close to the 48k mileage cap but having a baby in 3 weeks so won't be driving much for a few months. Think my best bet is to use it sparingly and then just before I hit 48k and the warranty expires, I'll trade into an SUV and amortize the loss into a new lease or purchase. Then when the next new V is available, I will pick one up.
Thank you all very much for trying to help me with this!

HiTechRV
12-29-06, 11:08 PM
Do you want another V short term before the '09 is out? Or something fun in that SUV like a Trailblazer SS? I bet folks here might know someone who could help out. At the least a dealer who will deal should be able to help you out. A Trailblazer SS lease should be a lot cheaper, for example. Worst case I bet a number of folks here can get you supplier discount on a GM vehicle.

Vdrenaline
12-29-06, 11:18 PM
I really want a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, but with new house, baby, live-in nanny and lots of other expenses, for now I think I will be frugal and buy a used Grand Cherokee or Tahoe. Would love to hear from any dealers who will take my V on trade (at a loss for me) and get me a decent payment on a used GC, Tahoe or Denali.

HiTechRV
12-29-06, 11:29 PM
Trailblazer SSs are REALLY cheap right now. I test drove one before I got my V. 0-60 in the 5's.

Vdrenaline
12-29-06, 11:32 PM
How cheap?

HiTechRV
12-29-06, 11:45 PM
The quotes I was getting were under $300/month lease. And it drives like a Camaro instead of a truck.

Vdrenaline
12-29-06, 11:49 PM
Wow! I will look into it -Thanks!