: AMSOIL in 96 STS with 88K



STS127
12-26-06, 10:35 AM
Would it be ok to use AMSOIL in a high mileage North*?

codewize
12-26-06, 12:00 PM
Of course. If you want to save a few bucks on Synth oil use the XL line. It's a little lower cost and it's good for about 8k. Actually 88k isn't really high mileage. If you can swing the cost go for the 5W-30 ASL line.

jss
12-26-06, 12:41 PM
The only Amsoil I have ever seen is for motorcycles. IF the Amsoil you have is formulated for bikes, it will have a lower viscosity to accomodate a bike's wet clutch. If that's the case, there are many readily available choices that are much better for automotive applications.

Ranger
12-26-06, 12:42 PM
Why not? Use whatever your favorite oil is. They will all get the job done.

dkozloski
12-26-06, 02:54 PM
Motor oil is just like cold remedies, tooth paste, and, weight loss products. If any one of them was significantly better than the rest on the market it would be the only one going.

jholland
12-26-06, 03:59 PM
I picked up a 4.0 N* with a bad headgasket from a used car dealer. He said he just changed the oil. One hour into driving it home(mistake) it was hot but not into the red, at idle the low oil pressure light came on. I put Mobil 1 in and didn't see the warning again. In the process of trying every suggested remedy leading up to the headgaskets I never saw the low oil pressure light again.

I changed the head gaskets and put in Pennsoil Platinum. The engine was misfiring badly for about a week before I put a replacement ignition module on(no misfire since). I was down 1.75 quarts and idling in traffic for about a half hour and the light came back on. A friend suggested that the oil was diluted due to misfire. I topped it up and have not seen the light again. I have not idle again for that period of time. I plan to change it this weekend.

I will never know what the car dealer put in but it definitely wasn't up to the job. I have used Mobil 1 in motors that went 280,000 with no signs of wear.

My concern is the low oil light. This is my 3rd N* and never saw it before. The engine has 90,000 on it. Appears to have been well cared for and is remarkably quite, valve train and all. I'm planning to put Mobil one back in with a AC filter. Any other suggestions?

dp102288
12-27-06, 03:20 PM
^^ After the oil change, keep an eye on the level. I wouldn't check now because of the recent problems with the engine. After you change the oil and filter, then you will know you filled it up right. If there are no problems, and the level goes down, then you know you have a leak or excess burn.

I agree with Ranger. If its certified, not too much variation among brands. The syn vs dino thing is as old as their creation.

C66 Racing
01-05-07, 04:28 PM
Would it be ok to use AMSOIL in a high mileage North*?

Yes it would. As Codewize suggested, I'd recommend you try the AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/XLFPB.htm), AMSOIL's least expensive synthetic. This oil is specially formulated for use with cars with Oil Life Monitoring systems such as on GM vehicles. For those cars without OLMs, this oil is rated for six months or 7,500 miles of use, whichever comes first. As this oil uses a Group III, or highly processed petroleum oil, it should not react any differently with your seals as the oil you are currently using.

If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a PM.
:cheers:

clarkz71
01-06-07, 07:31 AM
Yes it would. As Codewize suggested, I'd recommend you try the AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/XLFPB.htm), AMSOIL's least expensive synthetic.

As this oil uses a Group III, or highly processed petroleum oil, it should not react any differently with your seals as the oil you are currently using.




So it's not a true full synthetic like Mobil 1 (group IV). Is it API starburst certified??

GreenMachine
01-07-07, 06:42 AM
Yes it would. As Codewize suggested, I'd recommend you try the AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/XLFPB.htm), AMSOIL's least expensive synthetic. This oil is specially formulated for use with cars with Oil Life Monitoring systems such as on GM vehicles. For those cars without OLMs, this oil is rated for six months or 7,500 miles of use, whichever comes first. As this oil uses a Group III, or highly processed petroleum oil, it should not react any differently with your seals as the oil you are currently using.

If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a PM.
:cheers:

Seems like a good oil....but a 6 bucks a quart one could get the full synthetic Mobil 1 and run to the full length of the OLM anyway :P Just be careful in an older Northstar running synthetic, the tend to leak a bit more from the trouble spots with that oil.

Also if your Northstar is sucking down oil/leaking it, a high mileage oil of some kind might be a better idea, I noticed that the Castrol GTX high mileage did cut my consumption down and kept my pan dry, also since adding 2 quarts of Kendall High Mileage Blend to the already regular blend my consumption has been slowed and the "seal max" seems to be working to swell the gaskets a bit, next time I plan to use all high mileage Kendall.

The engines are designed pretty good and seem to run well on pretty much anything you put in them.

Ranger
01-07-07, 11:39 AM
$6 per qt. :eek:

C66 Racing
01-07-07, 01:51 PM
So it's not a true full synthetic like Mobil 1 (group IV). Is it API starburst certified??

According to industry standards, it is a synthetic, but you are correct, the XL line is a Group III synthetic and it is API Starburst certified. FYI, there is info available on the oil forums that indicate that the Mobil 1 Extended Performance line has gone to a Group III, or possibly a Group III/IV blend.

The top tier AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/TSOPB.htm) and AMSOIL SAE Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ASLPB.htm) are what you call true Group IV synthetics, but they are not API starburst certified due to the extra cost of certification.

For those interested in the differences in the oil groups, here is a short primer:
The API has not come out and defined what is "synthetic", but rather, classified oils into five major groups.

Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils use these stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Group II base oils are common in mineral based motor oils. They have fair to good performance in the areas of volatility, oxidation stability, wear prevention and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point and cold crank viscosity. Group II base stocks are what the majority of engine oils are made from. 3000 mile oil changes are the norm.

Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of refining of all the mineral oil stocks. Although not chemically engineered, they offer improved performance in a wide range of areas as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. By definition they are considered a synthesized material and can be used in the production of synthetic and semi-synthetic lubricants. Group III is used in the vast majority of full synthetics or synthetic blends. They are superior to group I and II oils but still have limitations. Some formulations are designed for extended oil changes. AMSOIL XL Motor Oils (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Motoroils.htm#AMSOIL_XL_7500_Motor_Oils), Castrol Syntec and many others fall into this category.

Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are a chemically engineered synthesized basestocks. PAOs offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity and performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Motor Oils (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Motoroils.htm#AMSOIL_Synthetic_Motor_Oils) and Mobil 1 primarily use group IV basestocks. PAO is a much more expensive basestock than the highly refined petroleum oil basestock of Group III.

Group V base oils are also chemically engineered stocks that do not full into any of the categories previously mentioned. Typical examples of group V stocks are Esters, polyglycols and silicone. Redline uses an ester basestock.

In the 90s, Mobil filed suit against Castrol for falsely advertising Syntec oil as synthetic, when in fact it contained a Group III, highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil, instead of a chemically synthesized (group IV or V) basestock. Due to the amount that the mineral oil had been chemically changed, the judge decided in Castrol's favor. As a result, any oil containing this highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil (currently called Group III basestock by the American Petroleum Institute) can be marketed as a synthetic oil. Since the original synthetic basestock (polyalphaolefin or PAO) is much more expensive than the Group III basestock, most of the oil blenders switched to the Group III basestock, which significantly increased their profit margins.

Submariner409
01-07-07, 01:59 PM
^^^C66.......Appears your number of surfaces still equals your number of dives......The Ol' COB

codewize
01-07-07, 06:40 PM
You know I really can't figure this out. So many people have such bad things to say about Amsoil but yet they prevail in every test I've ever seen. Why is that? What's up with that one post about Amsoil being like putting sand in your engine? Where do they get this info from?

And I just learned while strolling through Wal-Mart that Havoline is a group IV oil.

C66 Racing
01-07-07, 09:41 PM
^^^C66.......Appears your number of surfaces still equals your number of dives......The Ol' COB

And I'd like to keep it that way... :thumbsup:

Codewize,
I've been on various car forums from Vette's to SSRs to GTOs for several years now and I don't lose too much sleep over posts like that one. There are hundreds of "I lost a motor" stories out there and I've read posts like that stating everything from Redline and Mobil 1 to pick a dino oil has resulted in the destruction of something. Why these motors, tranny's, and/or diff have failed is subject to debate.

I also feel that AMSOIL gets a bad reputation in some circles based in part on its multi-level marketing method. Basically anyone can become an AMSOIL dealer and they don't need to know anything about lubrication. While AMSOIL does have a good training program (which I have completed), you don't have to complete this training to become or remain a dealer. Many people have crossed paths with a dealer that has rubbed them wrong leading to a negative impression of the product.

Although I've been using it in my racecar for three seasons now, without any lubrication related failures, as well as my personal vehicles, I've also reviewed enough real world used oil analysis reports to fully believe in the product.
:cheers:

texascycle
04-10-07, 11:04 AM
Amsoil makes a wide variety of oils, including motorcycle oils. The difference is not in the viscosity, but the lack of detergents for the motorcycle blend. This is because there is no separate oil for motor vs transmission and the clutch plates also run in the motor oil ... the detergents can *theoretically* make the clutch slip although I have never heard of anyone actually having this problem in 25 years of motorcycling.

Submariner409
04-10-07, 05:19 PM
:stirpot: There's not a darn thing wrong with any AMSOIL product.....The products are just marketed somewhat differently from the mainstream lubes. Why doesn't someone go to war with Royal Purple ????? And we never get into discussions over the Shell-Chevron-Gulf marine lubes. Compared to marine lubricants, automotive stuff is 7-UP. Ever seen a 16,500 HP engine that turns 120 RPM WOT with pistons as big as 55 gallon drums and intake valves with a 22 inch head? Don't need no stinkin' MMO........! Whaddaya grease a 20,000 RPM gas turbine with? (especially one which runs 24/7/180 ???)

Mountie
04-11-07, 01:06 AM
I use Amsoil 0-30 in my 330,000 mile '88 GMC truck ( 350 4-bolt chevy engine - 70,000 miles now) ..... It is the original syn. oil, and the cool aspect of this oil is it stays attached to the top end over night. Amsoil invented an oil WASH / filter system, that I am considering this year.

I use a syn-blend in my '93 STS. I get a quarter sized drop of oil once in a while, which is pretty good for this 120,000 North*.

Mountie
04-11-07, 01:16 AM
:stirpot: There's not a darn thing wrong with any AMSOIL product.....The products are just marketed somewhat differently from the mainstream lubes. Why doesn't someone go to war with Royal Purple ????? And we never get into discussions over the Shell-Chevron-Gulf marine lubes. Compared to marine lubricants, automotive stuff is 7-UP. Ever seen a 16,500 HP engine that turns 120 RPM WOT with pistons as big as 55 gallon drums and intake valves with a 22 inch head? Don't need no stinkin' MMO........! Whaddaya grease a 20,000 RPM gas turbine with? (especially one which runs 24/7/180 ???)

Turbines are lubed with it's internal supply of transmission type oil. I worked for years on some of the world's only 40' & 50' Catamaran Skater off-shore powerboats powered by turbine shaft engines. going 30,000 rpm at 8,000 hp. Some single turbines & some dual turbines.

You would not believe how fast I have been in this boat?

Submariner409
04-11-07, 06:09 PM
A probable designer/builder acquaintance of yours (name escapes me) was killed near here, off Baltimore Light, 2 years ago in February, doing 176 mph in a twin gas turbine cat. Saw him do 135 down the Chester River three months prior........I'll stick with Olds 455's in a trick workboat.......(BTW...one turbine shut down and threw the boat into a tight turn at 175.......'twas a mess, and the bodies didn't come up for a month.....)

Ranger
04-11-07, 08:52 PM
That is just waaay to fast to be traveling on water.

Mountie
04-12-07, 12:33 PM
A probable designer/builder acquaintance of yours (name escapes me) was killed near here, off Baltimore Light, 2 years ago in February, doing 176 mph in a twin gas turbine cat. Saw him do 135 down the Chester River three months prior........I'll stick with Olds 455's in a trick workboat.......(BTW...one turbine shut down and threw the boat into a tight turn at 175.......'twas a mess, and the bodies didn't come up for a month.....)

When you go fast, you have to maintain the equipment! ( I'll inquire to who that was) ...... Arneson built a half dozen twin turbines.

The 40' shown was the first twin..... We went 191mph on the San Francisco Bay ( in a consistant smooth area - our 'test' area). It felt fine at those speeds. We then had a 48' that had too much hull, and wanted to 'take off' at 160mph.

The whole idea was horsepower to weight ratio. We have reduction gearboxes to reduce the Rolla Surfaceprops' speed to 2,500 rpm.

Only 5% power loss to the props with the Arneson Drive.

Submariner409
04-13-07, 08:51 PM
If that's a pic of a twin cat/Skater, just exactly where's the starboard hull/drive? And why is the port screw clockwise? New design principle we don't know about? Strange trailer for a 40' vessel............Back in the late 50's, sat behind a Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 in Hawaii Kai II, Edgar Kaiser's Unlimited Hydro. Remember driver Jack Regas? Been there, done that.......147 mph on avgas.......Arneson drives are pure magic...wonderful.

chazglenn3
04-16-07, 02:02 PM
That is just waaay to fast to be traveling on water.

Hell, that is way to fast too be travelling on land or water! Only in the air.

Mountie
04-18-07, 05:02 AM
If that's a pic of a twin cat/Skater, just exactly where's the starboard hull/drive? And why is the port screw clockwise? New design principle we don't know about? Strange trailer for a 40' vessel............Back in the late 50's, sat behind a Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 in Hawaii Kai II, Edgar Kaiser's Unlimited Hydro. Remember driver Jack Regas? Been there, done that.......147 mph on avgas.......Arneson drives are pure magic...wonderful.

That's just a photo of a single 32' Cat. We smashed the New Orleans - St. Louis 'On the Mississippi River' by 8 hours with that boat.

The props on the twins turn inboard.

Our 40' gets on plane from a standing start in half a boat length!

I helped build the very first prototype Arneson Surface Drive, and tested the boats for 10 years! ( Talk about a fun job!)

Now, lets take a look at a "quick" boat! 300 Hp, 5 1/2 'G's" in a 90 degree turn.

( Are we off subject?)

Submariner409
04-21-07, 06:14 PM
Naaaahhhh! Boats are fun and no emissions.............You can still build some sort of motor with nothing but jets on top and straight pipes on the bottom !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mountie
04-23-07, 02:14 PM
Naaaahhhh! Boats are fun and no emissions.............You can still build some sort of motor with nothing but jets on top and straight pipes on the bottom !!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT? I can't hear you......

Submariner409
04-23-07, 02:40 PM
Mommy, I see my Christmas present, please ???? ^^^ Does it run on 87 ???

Mountie
04-23-07, 07:28 PM
Mommy, I see my Christmas present, please ???? ^^^ Does it run on 87 ???

The above white 40' cat is 110 octane Race, 800 gal. of fuel.... 2 big iron block 610 inch Chevy, supercharged beasties. About 2,200 Hp total.

The single turbine engine is about 3,800 HP, 800 gallon tank...... Jet-A ( Kerosene )... but only weighs the same as a straight 6cyl. Chevy iron block engine. ( Horsepower to weight ratio )

One race in Lake Tahoe, we were the pace boat. ( No catagory for a non-piston boat).... We paced the race, then held back to let everyone go by. We then did an "exibition" run for the entire 6 laps. We finished the 6-lap race before the leader completed their 4th lap!!

Pretty funny..... We did a lot of waving to the leaders as we blew by each lap.

Submariner409
04-23-07, 10:13 PM
:highfive: WoooHooo! '70 Olds 455 by Yours Truly......dinosaur time.....

dkozloski
04-23-07, 11:38 PM
Forty years ago I was fooling around with Mercury Mk55H Quincy loop engines. 45 cu. in and 135HP on pump gas. The German Konigs were pretty impressive also but had a real narrow power band.

Mountie
04-23-07, 11:56 PM
I'd love a boat like that........ You can do most anything with that. Fabulous engine. Reliable set-up.

I bet you have lots of cup holders!!

Submariner409
04-26-07, 01:12 PM
Believe it or not, I built a wine rack next to the Miller Lite cooler in the cabin...The boat weighs 14,800# and will get up to 23 knots on a 20x16 4-blade prop. I cruise at 8.5 knots, 2.8 gph, 87 octane. Built the engine as a sort of high torque "towing-RV" unit. Mondello street heads, roller rockers, Edelbrock dual plane, Keith Black pistons w/moly rings, forged crank (worth its weight in gold, now), cooled by a closed FW system which uses 30' of 1-1/4" copper pipe at the keel as a "radiator", lotsa tricks. Another long block in the garage.......The marine exhaust manifolds are fresh water cooled and the lagged dry pipes are 2-1/4" each. Glasspacks....not too loud below 2400 rpm. Notice the marine oil filter adaptor. Easy change and the oil is drained by a 12V vane pump plumbed into the Moroso 8-quart pan. Runs Pennzoil 15W-40 Long Life truck oil. 60 psi at 2000 rpm, 220 deg. oil temp.

JimHare
04-26-07, 01:45 PM
Does a 5' rubber raft count? :thepan:


Kidding aside, you guys are the kind of guys I'd hang around if I could - old farts (like me) with real-world experience (NOT like me...) who know what the hell they're talking about, and didn't just read it in a magazine

They should make a beer commericial with the three of you. :worship:


:band: