: Synthetic Blend?



STS127
12-24-06, 12:04 PM
I've read previous posts saying that synthetics are not necessesary or reccomended in a North*. I was curious what the deal is with a synthetic blend. Good or bad for a North*?

JimD
12-24-06, 01:17 PM
They are not harmful to your engine. But you won't see any benefit either. In fact, "starburst" 10W-30 dino oils contain some synthetic materials in order to obtain the viscosity range.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

clarkz71
12-24-06, 01:53 PM
But you won't see any benefit either.

How would you know? You would have to run two engines for the same amount of miles under hard conditions, disassemble them and compare them. If there was no benifit to synthetic oils, Cadillac wouldn't recommend it for the CTS-V or Chevrolet for the Corvette. I agree it's not necessary, but I don't agree that there's no benefit.

JimD
12-24-06, 02:19 PM
The question was asked for a '96 vintage Northstar. I'll go with the factory fill and recommended 10W-30 dino oil counting on the fact that the high dollar GM powertrain engineering staff did the pounding and measuring.

clarkz71
12-24-06, 02:21 PM
Actually, the FSM or owners manual doesn't specify dino, only that the oil is API starburst certified 10/30 which Mobil 1 is.

AlBundy
12-24-06, 02:44 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/ht4100-4-1-4-5-4/23366-bbob-anyone-else-whats-say-synthetic.html

clarkz71
12-24-06, 02:59 PM
OK, so BBob said if your going to use synthetic, use Mobil 1. He did not say you won't see any benefit, only that it wasn't necessary. Hey,if you want to drink scotch, Johnny Walker Blue Label isn't necessary, but it sure taste's better then rack scotch.

eldorado1
12-24-06, 03:28 PM
I use my Rotella T synthetic

EcSTSatic
12-24-06, 09:50 PM
It was in an issue of Hot Rod magazine a whlie back. Mobile 1 Synthetic oil improved 1/4 times slightly. Is it worth it on a daily driver? Not.

chazglenn3
12-24-06, 10:33 PM
I use my Rotella T synthetic


Sure wish I could find the Rotella T 10W30 somewhere in my area.

clarkz71
12-25-06, 05:15 AM
It was in an issue of Hot Rod magazine a whlie back. Mobile 1 Synthetic oil improved 1/4 times slightly. Is it worth it on a daily driver? Not.

Another opinion heard from. and that's just what it is, an opinion. Whether it's worth it or not depends on driving conditions and if your willing to get off your wallet. How about this, if you won a contest at Walmart, and the prize was a lifetime supply of oil. Your choice was any dino 10/30 or Mobil 1 10/30, what would you choose? Oh, and if Mobil 1 improved 1/4 mile times that's because it reduced friction in the engine. Is that worth it on ANY engine, daily driver or weekend racer?? Yes

Submariner409
12-25-06, 03:29 PM
:sneaky: Chazglen, snoop around Washington for a dealer in marine lubricants. You'll come up with enough Rotella, Gulf, and Chevron HD oils to float a battleship.

eldorado1
12-25-06, 04:06 PM
Sure wish I could find the Rotella T 10W30 somewhere in my area.

I don't think the 10W30 comes in synthetic

Ranger
12-25-06, 04:21 PM
I don't think he is looking for synthetic.

eldorado1
12-25-06, 05:20 PM
Well that's too bad then... losing out on a lot of good properties... ;)

STS127
12-25-06, 05:51 PM
I was thinking about trying some Motorcraft synthetic blend. Has anybody else tried it in a N*.

dp102288
12-27-06, 02:11 PM
:horse:

Back to the OP's question, I don't think there is any solid recommendation on the type/brand/etc... oil to use in a Northstar. Just make sure the viscoity is correct for your engine year, and buy what you want to pay.

If anyone is curious, my Eldo has run dino 10W-30 since we have owned it. Before us, the oil was tested for containments, and it was dino oil. Engine runs great. I just buy dino oil cause its cheaper. I probably wouldn't buy synthetic, even if its the same price, because I have read that sometimes a change of types is bad for some engines.

Elmer Fudd
12-27-06, 06:33 PM
I use Mobile 1 because it is cheap insurance. Had the oil light in my 86 Town Car come on once. Pulled over immediately and raised the hood. Heard no engine or valve noises at all. Figured it was a bad sensor so I went about 3 more miles to a gas station and pulled in. Raised the hood again and I could just barely heard some valve noise starting. Shut her down immediately and had it towed.

My oil pump drive shaft had snapped. I drove 3 miles at highway speed with 0 oil pressure and barely made a noise. The mechanic shop said without a doubt Mobile 1 saved the engine.

Of course, if I had dino oil it would have been making a racket from the get-go and I would never have driven the 3 miles….…but my wife would have…….:p

dp102288
12-27-06, 10:04 PM
^^ Ahh the wives who drive the cars...:D

I am actually amazed at that story. Wow...maybe that stuff does work.

Elmer Fudd
12-27-06, 11:50 PM
I herad a similar one on Car Talk where a guy changed his own oil (used Mobil 1) and forgot to put the drain plug in. His wife toiok the car downtown to a store. After she left he came outside and saw the 5 quarts of fresh oil on the ground with the plug .....:thepan:

He got her at the store on the cell and told her to wait at the car for the tow truck. Figured his engine was toast......Turned out it had no damage at all.:worship:

I don't recall exactly how far it was but I remeber is was only a mile or two.

My point is we put thousands into buying a car, and who knows how much more per year in upkeep and extras, yet balk at an extra 20$ for oil 2 or 3 times a year.

clarkz71
12-28-06, 07:05 AM
I agree, and it's the same with coolant. It's under $10 a gal, yet people with 96 & up want to strech it 5 years. :hmm: Why wouldn't you change it once a year? Is it really that difficult to do a drain & refill? ....not.

dp102288
12-28-06, 11:54 AM
I use Mobile 1 because it is cheap insurance.


I herad a similar one on Car Talk where a guy changed his own oil (used Mobil 1) and forgot to put the drain plug in. His wife toiok the car downtown to a store. After she left he came outside and saw the 5 quarts of fresh oil on the ground with the plug .....:thepan:

I just want to make sure...the oil used was Mobil 1 synthetic correct?




My point is we put thousands into buying a car, and who knows how much more per year in upkeep and extras, yet balk at an extra 20$ for oil 2 or 3 times a year.



I agree, and it's the same with coolant. It's under $10 a gal, yet people with 96 & up want to strech it 5 years. :hmm: Why wouldn't you change it once a year? Is it really that difficult to do a drain & refill? ....not.

I never really thought about it like that, but you guys are absolutely correct!

clarkz71
12-28-06, 11:58 AM
I just want to make sure...the oil used was Mobil 1 synthetic correct?



All grades of Mobil 1 are full synthetic.

Elmer Fudd
12-28-06, 07:54 PM
[QUOTE=dp102288;918838]I just want to make sure...the oil used was Mobil 1 synthetic correct?

That is what the caller stated, and Tom and Ray agreed the synthetic MObile 1 saved him.....

Elmer Fudd
12-28-06, 07:56 PM
And 1 more thing, I ran Dino in my old Lincoln in the past. I often did not driuve the car for a week or two. After sitting 2 weeks, on startup it would make that disgusting metal-on-metal noise for the first second. With Mobile one it didn't....

eldorado1
12-28-06, 08:05 PM
I drove a van with no oil for a mile with no ill effects... Regular 98 cent oil. Do you want the brand name of that too? I think the 98 cent oil saved it. Anything else it would have been toast.:yup:

(true story, though)

Seriously - I could believe something with extra high pressure additives (i.e. ZDP) being the "savior" of an engine, but mobile 1 isn't any better in that department than the regular oil. Rotella T, and other "diesel" oils on the other hand...............

Elmer Fudd
12-28-06, 08:47 PM
I drove a van with no oil for a mile with no ill effects... Regular 98 cent oil. Do you want the brand name of that too? I think the 98 cent oil saved it. Anything else it would have been toast.:yup:

(true story, though)

Seriously - I could believe something with extra high pressure additives (i.e. ZDP) being the "savior" of an engine, but mobile 1 isn't any better in that department than the regular oil. Rotella T, and other "diesel" oils on the other hand...............


To each his own;)

dp102288
12-28-06, 08:47 PM
Oh I thought Mobil 1 came in dino too...:banghead:

So a heavy duty or diesel dino oil (high zddp) is probably the best non-synthetic oil to use?

Elmer Fudd
12-28-06, 09:40 PM
Oh I thought Mobil 1 came in dino too...:banghead:

So a heavy duty or diesel dino oil (high zddp) is probably the best non-synthetic oil to use?

That is what I gather from reading the posts here. It maybe better than synthetic in day to day use due to the ZDDPTFGREAT stuff :suspect: that is not in synthetics. I can only relate my experiences and anecdotes I have heard:thumbsup:

AlBundy
12-28-06, 09:49 PM
Its been stated that unless its specified on the bottle, that synthetic have no more ZDDP than regular dino.

Rod04
12-29-06, 02:49 AM
I used to have a biz that serviced industrial and power plant customers. I also had a recip powered airplane. In my biz, I had contact with some very knowledgeable lube engineers. I learned a few interesting things.

If I remember correctly, the synthetics maintain their specs for a longer time. They are less susceptible to viscosity degradation due to shear (mechanical tearing apart of the long molecules that keep the oil from becoming too thin over time and with hard use). The synthetics are also better at being very viscous at low temps (cold starts) while maintaining spec viscosity when hot.

Basically you can run longer betwen oil changes with a synthetic.

I once spent about an hour on the phone with a Mobil lube scientist before I switched my airplane to synthetic. He went over their development process for their synthetic - goals and methods of achieving these goals. He also mentioned that, at one point, mgt decided to kill the synthetic program. Then they got a call from the military telling them that, for reasons of national security, Mobil could not (would not) discontinue supplying the oil. As time went by, those who were not in the know already learned that their synthetic oil was being used in the recip or Rotax powered unmanned recon aircraft. The synthetic oil allowed the observation craft to stay aloft about 100 hours between oil changes instead of about 25 hrs. Considering that, at certain times (like war), these craft were landed only to be refueled and then turned around immediately for another mission, the ability to reduce downtime for oil changes by a factor of 2:1 to 4:1 made for a huge change in the availability of the planes without sacrificing service life of the engines.

In my airplane, I always used Mobil 1 aircraft synthetic even though I stuck with the 25 hr oil change. I also used oil analysis to track wear trends and possibler imminent failures. I wasn't as concerned with saving money as in staying alive.

GM, through whatever algorithms the on-board computer uses, basically allows the car to run longer between oil changes. I don't do the 2k or 3k changes that were recommended in the old days. I go with the computer telling me that I have used 90% of the oil life. I feel comfortable doing this with synthetic oil. I wouldn't think of doing this with mineral oil.

eldorado1
12-29-06, 07:36 AM
That is what I gather from reading the posts here. It maybe better than synthetic in day to day use due to the ZDDPTFGREAT stuff :suspect: that is not in synthetics. I can only relate my experiences and anecdotes I have heard:thumbsup:

Or get the best of both worlds... Rotella T comes in synthetic 5W40. $15 a gallon at walmart. Handle high temperatures, and high loads. Perfect for racing. :thumbsup:

dp102288
12-29-06, 09:07 AM
That is what I gather from reading the posts here. It maybe better than synthetic in day to day use due to the ZDDPTFGREAT stuff :suspect: that is not in synthetics. I can only relate my experiences and anecdotes I have heard:thumbsup:

Alright, thanks. I jsut wanted to be clear for my next oil change. I will be switching to a high zddp dino oil. Hopefully it will be easy to spot on the label or something.



Or get the best of both worlds... Rotella T comes in synthetic 5W40. $15 a gallon at walmart. Handle high temperatures, and high loads. Perfect for racing. :thumbsup:

Man if the Eldo was already running synthetic, I probably would. That price isn't even that bad! I would need about 2 galons (1 gal = 3.8L, so 3.8L x 2 = 7.6 L, I need 7.5L in the Eldo, perfect!) so $30 plus filters. Not that bad actually!

JohnnyO
01-05-07, 02:22 PM
About the only way to get high ZDDP in any oil these days is to buy diesel oil. Rotella 5w-40 syn is a good deal for the money. Mobil 1 Extended Performance has more, and I think the Valvoline Max Life Additive gives you an extra shot.
Is a syn blend better? Yes. Necessary? Not really. Motorcraft Blend is a killer deal though. I have 5000-mile UOA's on my wife's Ford comparing Mobil 1 and Motorcraft and the results were nearly identical.
Remember though, the rear-drive N* requires Mobil 1.

clarkz71
01-05-07, 02:31 PM
I have 5000-mile UOA's on my wife's Ford comparing Mobil 1 and Motorcraft and the results were nearly identical.
Remember though, the rear-drive N* requires Mobil 1.

I'll stick with Mobil 1 EP. The UOA is only accurate if you work the engine hard. If you run the engine like an old lady, sure, dino will show it's still good. It hasn't been stressed enough. A good UOA wood be the engine run on a dyno, wide open, with one oil then the other.