: '83 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance coupe



Cogs
12-20-06, 07:07 AM
Hey, I'm picking up an 83 Fleetwood Coupe on saturday with the HT4100 in it. I really have no desire to keep that engine, so what is an easy swap that will be close to bolting in? I don't want a 307 or a 305, but anything 350 ci or larger I will consider.

What is the bolt pattern for the trans? I was told it has a 200-4R in it.

Thanks.

DaveSmed
12-20-06, 07:02 PM
There's a wide variety of engine/trans combos that bolt into that chassis. Cad big block, Olds, Chevy small block... What did you have in mind?

Cogs
12-20-06, 09:33 PM
I know they will bolt in to the chassis. I dont want to have to buy a new trans so I'm wondering what the bolt patter is for the trans. Is it a BOP bolt pattern or chevy?

DaveSmed
12-21-06, 12:09 PM
Ah. The trans is a BOP pattern I believe.... But it's still a 200-4r. They can't handle too much power without some aftermarket support. I'm guessing your interested in retaining it because of overdrive? If so, keep an eye out for a 700R4. Much nicer, though not without its own problems. Also known as the 4L60

Cogs
12-21-06, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I'm plenty familiar with the 200 and 700s. I have a 200 in my 87 Monte SS which has handled around 400hp so far...lets see how it holds up the the nitrous this summer.:lildevil: And I've had 4 Camaros with the 700 in em.

So I know they're good trans'. The 700 is very similar and stock for stock handles around the same power. I don't want to buy another trans because I know the 200-4R is a good trans and this one only has 71k miles on it and the overdrive. I'll look for an olds engine for the caddy then. Has anyone on here done the swap?

DaveSmed
12-21-06, 03:53 PM
Ah good, so long as you know what the limitations are stock, I know a few people swear by the 403, might be worth looking into. I'll move your post into the section for these cars, since there's a better wealth of knowledge regarding swaps there.

Cogs
12-21-06, 04:01 PM
Thanks, wasn't sure where to post it. Yeah, I thought about a 403. I'm sure I could get one decently cheap from a Trans Am or something.

Cogs
12-21-06, 04:37 PM
Actually I just found out from another site that all 200-4Rs are dual bolt pattern which means they'll fit both BOP and SBC engines. Now I need to find out which is the easier swap.

bicentennialcadillac
12-21-06, 04:51 PM
Be sure to post some pics. It's really a shame about that motor, as the early eighties big coupes are among my favorites.

Good luck with the swap.

Cogs
12-21-06, 04:53 PM
I'll get some as soon as I get the car home.

Cogs
12-21-06, 05:00 PM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/s_holford/83%20Fleetwood/HPIM0092.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/s_holford/83%20Fleetwood/HPIM0097.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/s_holford/83%20Fleetwood/Picture011.jpg

Those are from the for sale ad.

The car is rust free except the top of the rear bumper. I love these 80's coupes...except the crap engine.

bicentennialcadillac
12-21-06, 08:12 PM
Awesome.

Rick186
12-21-06, 08:36 PM
What, specifically, is the problem with that motor?
Note that I'm hot to get such a coupe for wife in the near future.

Cogs
12-22-06, 05:01 AM
It had problems with blowing head gaskets because it has an aluminum block with iron heads. Also sometimes oil wont drain back to the oil pan from the heads because the drain is so small. And I've heard if the engines were not well maintained they had all sorts of problems.

The Ape Man
12-22-06, 09:32 PM
What, specifically, is the problem with that motor?
Note that I'm hot to get such a coupe for wife in the near future.

Just cruise the 4.1 engine forum on this site for entertainment.

The Ape Man
12-22-06, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I'm plenty familiar with the 200 and 700s. I have a 200 in my 87 Monte SS which has handled around 400hp so far...lets see how it holds up the the nitrous this summer.:lildevil: And I've had 4 Camaros with the 700 in em.

So I know they're good trans'. The 700 is very similar and stock for stock handles around the same power. I don't want to buy another trans because I know the 200-4R is a good trans and this one only has 71k miles on it and the overdrive. I'll look for an olds engine for the caddy then. Has anyone on here done the swap?

FYI a lot of the things that made the 2004R last were done in 1987 and after. Keep a spare around if you install an engine with some guts. Olds 403 will move that car as well as a stock 500 Cad.

davedbusman
12-22-06, 10:23 PM
I have both the 305 and the 307 in my cars. I prefer the 305 with throttle body injection. It moves my Brougham well. The 307 has an electronic carb which is sometimes a pain to tune. And the 307 has 140 HP versus 170 HP for the 305.

Rick186
12-22-06, 10:37 PM
Ape Man -
Okay. I did that bid of cruising over at the 4.1 forum.
Jeebus Christmas:crying: It's as if that motor is like that little girl in the poem:

There was a little girl
With a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead
And when she was good
She was very, very good.
But when she was bad . . .
She was HORRID!:tisk:

Thus, since I have the hots for the "square bodies" of old for wife to drive around town - yet would have mucho worries about the reliability of the 4100 - as well as the fuel mileage of the earlier 368, it looks like I ought to REALLY take the plunge and simply
>get a good looking Brougham Coupe
>drag it over to my friend Gene's place
>get an LT1 from Jasper or other reman or maybe a decent junkie
>bite the bullet and pay full boat from Shane for a Stage I
>have Gene put the LT1 and Stage I in the Brougham Coupe and let Gene figure out the wiring, mounts, driveshaft cutting (if necessary) and the usual stuff he would do that he does when he builds those prize-winning rods.
Gawd . . . Now where do I get the $$$$$ ????:mad2:

Cogs
12-23-06, 12:58 AM
Well, I'm leaning toward putting an LT1 in it. It seems that it would go in fairly easily minus wiring issues. I can get a 95 Caprice 9C1 with a good engine for cheap, but a blown trans so maybe just reuse mine. That way I can use it as a guide plus I'll have all of the parts right next to me.

Steeltag
12-23-06, 02:14 AM
LOve the car and the color! I would like to know what you eventually do as I really do want a coupe (81-85) and want a motor with some power as well. Keep us informed won't you?

The Ape Man
12-23-06, 10:08 AM
Dunno how many spare dollars you have. All I can suggest is what I'd do and I'm nuts. How about getting a wrecked '96 and put the entire drivetrain in the FBC? The Coupe weighs almost 400 lbs less than the '96 so you would have a performance improvement without any engine mods whatsoever. If it isn't enough soup then you could make changes from there.

Cogs
12-23-06, 11:49 AM
Dunno how many spare dollars you have. All I can suggest is what I'd do and I'm nuts. How about getting a wrecked '96 and put the entire drivetrain in the FBC? The Coupe weighs almost 400 lbs less than the '96 so you would have a performance improvement without any engine mods whatsoever. If it isn't enough soup then you could make changes from there.

That's basically what I'm thinking. The 95 Caprice should be just about the same as a 96 Fleetwood(If that's what you're talking about). LT1, 4L60E and I wonder if I can use the rear end from it? It's a B-body, but does anyone know if it's a different width or anything?

90Brougham350
12-23-06, 12:16 PM
Nope, the D-bodies are just lengthened B-bodies.

Cadillac Giovanni
12-23-06, 12:56 PM
My grandpa's 83 Fleetwood Sedan had the same shitty engine. He loved the car, but we all know why he let it go.

If you're looking for an engine, by the way, I've heard great things from this site, they will sell you rebuilt engines that run "like new or better" according to some of their clients. They also offer a core deposit if you send them your engine.

Although you'd have to pay me to take an HT 4100.

http://hiperformer.com/

davesdeville
12-25-06, 04:31 AM
I would suggest the Cad 500 like I always do, but wouldn't bother if you plan on keeping the 200-4r you'd lunch it in a year..