: PCM P 0410 Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction



codewize
12-16-06, 07:43 PM
I figured the title of the original thread was misleading so

01 DTS 40k

Ok so today I'm driving as I usually do when the SES light comes on. I get to my destination and pull the codes.

I see
PCM P0410 Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction
What the heck does that mean?

I also see an SDM code U1064 History

I think I understand the function of the system but the code keeps coming back so I'd like to know what the components of this system are that can fail?

ewill3rd
12-16-06, 08:38 PM
Code,

Start up your car cold, if you don't hear a sound like a vacuum cleaner running under your car you probably need a new air pump.
First, check the maxi-fuse in the underhood fuse block for the AIR pump.
If it's blown then you need to get under the car on the driver's side.
Remove the front cover and look at the bottom cover on the air pump, if it's dislodged and full of water the pump probably sucked up some water and committed suicide. There is a bulletin out to replace the air pump and the intake duct with a redesigned part that is not so suceptible to water intrusion. Also it's possible that the connector is burnt up, I have seen some with new air pumps set codes because of a fried electrical connection.


Subject: Service Engine Soon (SES)/Check Engine Light MIL Illuminated, Secondary Air Injection Reaction (AIR) Pump Ingesting Water, DTC P0410 Set (Replace Secondary Air Pump/Inlet Hose Assembly or Filter Kit) #02-06-04-024G - (06/05/2006)



Models: 2000-2003 Cadillac DeVille

2001-2002 Cadillac Eldorado

2001-2004 Cadillac SLS, STS

2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora

with 3.5L V6, 4.0L or 4.6L V8 Engine (VINs H, C, Y, 9 -- RPOs LX5, L47, LD8, L37)




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This bulletin is being revised to update the model year for Cadillac DeVille, parts usage information and enhance the bulletin content. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-04-024F (Section 6 - Engine).


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Condition
Some customers may comment on the "Service Engine Soon" (U.S.) or "Check Engine Soon" (Canada) malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) being illuminated.

Technicians may find these additional conditions:

• DTC P0410 set.

• Evidence of water in the Secondary Air Injection Reaction (AIR) Pump.

• Secondary AIR Pump shorted out/inoperative.

Cause
This condition may be due to water being ingested at the secondary air injection reaction (AIR) pump inlet hose, causing the pump to short out or seize up.

Diagnostic Information
DTC P0410
Refer to SI for diagnostic information on DTC P0410.

If the diagnostic information above indicates a faulty AIR pump, follow the correction procedure below.

Notice: After the service procedure in this bulletin was been completed, the Secondary Air Injection Shut-Off valve(s) must be checked. A stuck valve (from carbon) can cause exhaust condensation to collect in the air pump causing a repeat non-function AIR pump.

Correction
Aurora and DeVille
Notice: A new Secondary AIR pump and Inlet hose assembly (kit), P/N 19515548 , is now available and must be installed if the AIR pump is replaced. Non-replacement and re-routing of the AIR pump inlet hose when servicing the AIR pump may result in a repeat non-function AIR pump from water ingestion.

Turn the wheels to the left.
Open the hood and install fender covers
On DeVille models, remove the upper filler panel. Refer to SI for information on the removal of the upper filler panel.
Remove the left headlamp assembly. Refer Headlamp Replacement in SI.
Remove the exiting AIR inlet hose retainer located between the inner and the outer fender.
Remove the secondary AIR pump. Refer to Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Pump Replacement in SI.
Remove the AIR pump inlet hose from the vehicle.
Install the new Secondary AIR Pump and Inlet Hose Assembly (Kit), P/N 19515548. Refer to Secondary AIR Injection (AIR) Pump Replacement and Secondary Air Injection Pump Outlet Pipe/Hose Replacement in SI.
Remove the left front inner fender splash shield retainers.
Reposition the splash shield to allow access for the new hose assembly installation.
Important: Install the new Secondary Air Injection Pump Outlet Pipe/Hose Assembly to the new Air Pump before installing to the vehicle. This will allow the housing on the hose/pipe assembly to fasten to the pump without damage to one of the holding fasteners.

Important: Located on the inner fender behind the air box there is a oval stamped hole. The new AIR filter must snap into this hole in order for the AIR pump to avoid ingesting water. Removal of the Air Cleaner Assembly may be necessary.





Route the new AIR pump inlet hose between the left inner and out fenders as shown above.



Notice: Secure the new AIR pump inlet hose and filter into the opening on the inner fender as shown above. If the filter is not properly secure to the inner fender repeat Non-Function Air pump may occur from ingesting water.

Snap the filter into the inner fender opening as shown above.
Reposition the inner fender splash shield into position.
Install the inner fender splash shield retainers.
Lower the vehicle
Install the left headlamp assembly. Refer to Headlamp Replacement in SI.
On DeVille models, install the upper filler panel. Refer to SI for installation procedures for the upper filler panel.
Check the operation of the Shut-Off Valve(s). Refer to SI for Secondary Air Injection description and operation of Shut-Off Valve(s) or refer to DTC P0410 for diagnostic testing of vacuum system, hoses, vacuum solenoid and shut-off valves.
Remove the fender covers and close the hood.
With a scan tool clear the DTCs and road test the vehicle.
SLS/STS
Notice: A new Secondary AIR Pump and Inlet Hose Assembly (Kit), P/N 19515548 (2001-2003 SLS/STS) and 19515549 (2004 SLS or STS only), is now available and must be installed if the AIR pump is replaced. Non replacement and rerouting of the AIR pump Inlet hose when servicing the AIR pump may result in a repeat Non-Function AIR pump from ingesting water.

Open the hood and install fender covers
Remove the upper filler panel. Refer to Filler Panel Replacement - Upper in Body Front End in SI.
Remove the left headlamp assembly. Refer to Headlamp Replacement in SI.
Remove the AIR hose retainer.
Remove the secondary air injection (AIR) pump. Refer to Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Pump Replacement in SI.
Remove the AIR hose assembly.



Important: Install the new Secondary Air Injection Pump Outlet Pipe/Hose Assembly to the new AIR pump before installing to the vehicle. This will allow the housing on the hose/pipe assembly to fasten to the pump without damage to one of the holding fasteners.

A new Secondary AIR Pump and Inlet Hose Assembly (kit), P/N 19515548 (2001-2003 Seville) or P/N 19515549 (2004 Seville only), behind the headlamp mounting bracket as shown above.
Lower the vehicle



Notice: It is critical that the new AIR inlet hose filter opening is facing downward when installed on the vehicle. If improperly installed Non-Function AIR pump may occur due to ingesting water into the pump.

Secure the new AIR hose filter with a plastic tie strap to the upper radiator support with the filter opening facing downward as shown above.
Install the headlamp assembly. Refer to SI Headlamp Replacement in SI.
Install the upper filler panel. Refer to Filler Panel Replacement - Upper in Body Front End in SI.
Check the operation of the Shut-Off Valve(s). Refer to SI for Secondary Air Injection description and operation of Shut-Off Valve(s) or refer to DTC P0410 for diagnostic testing of vacuum system, hoses, vacuum solenoid and shut-off valves.
Use a scan tool clear the DTCs and road test the vehicle.
Eldorado
Notice: A new Secondary AIR Pump, P/N 25770944, and Inlet AIR Pump Filter Kit, P/N 15783306, are now available and must be installed if the AIR pump is replaced. Non-replacement and re-routing of the AIR pump Inlet hose and filter when servicing the AIR pump may result in a repeat non-function AIR pump from water ingestion.

Open the hood and install fender covers.
Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in SI.
Install a new AIR pump, P/N 25770944. Refer to Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Pump Replacement in SI.
Lower the vehicle.
Remove the left headlamp assembly. Refer to Headlamp Capsule Replacement in SI.
Remove the push-on retainer from the AIR hose.
Remove the exiting AIR filter from the hose.
Measure and mark 20 cm (8 in) back from the AIR hose end.
Cut the AIR hose at the mark made in the above step. DO NOT discard the cut off piece of hose.
Install one clamp from kit, P/N 15783306, onto the AIR hose.
Install the connector from kit, P/N 15783306, into the air hose.
Install the cut off piece of the AIR hose onto the other end of the connector.
Install the other two clamps onto the open end of the cut off piece of the AIR hose.
Notice: It is critical that the new AIR inlet hose filter opening is facing rearward when installed on the vehicle. If improperly installed, a non-function of the AIR pump may occur due to water ingestion into the pump.

Install the new AIR hose filter from kit, P/N 15783306.
Crimp all three clamps.
Plastic strap the AIR hose to the headlamp mounting bracket.
Reinstall the left headlamp and closeout panel. Refer to Headlamp Capsule Replacement in SI.
Check the operation of the Shut-Off Valve(s). Refer to SI for Secondary Air Injection description and operation of Shut-Off Valve(s) or refer to DTC P0410 for diagnostic testing of vacuum system, hoses, vacuum solenoid and shut-off valves.
Use a scan tool clear the DTCs and road test the vehicle.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description

25770944
Pump Asm - Secondary AIR (Eldorado Only)

19515548
Pump AIR and Hose Asm - Secondary AIR Pump (Inlet) (Aurora, DeVille and SLS or STS)

19515549
Pump AIR and Hose Asm - Secondary AIR Pump (Inlet) KIT (2004 SLS/STS only)

15783306
AIR Pump Inlet Filter - Kit (Eldorado Only)

ewill3rd
12-16-06, 08:39 PM
Oh and if you do hear the air pump running (vacuum cleaner sound) then check the vacuum hoses going to the check valves, one of them might be off.

codewize
12-16-06, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the great info

Crap. You know I saw water dripping from there the other day but ignored it. I'll bet it's the pump. I did have the beauty cover off the day before this all started but I don't think I touched anything to do with that. I'll check.

What the air pump going to cost me? Any idea?

EDIT. I was just looking on ALLData and I see this thing is on the drivers side. I saw the water dripping from the passenger side so maybe it's not the pump. Well given the TSB maybe it is.

I would say the fuse is not blown because I can drive for a day maybe 2 before the code comes back. I would suspect without the pump running the code would come back right away.

ewill3rd
12-17-06, 08:57 AM
Sometimes the enable criteria for the code to come back are not met in a drive cycle.
Not all diagnostics run every time you drive, sometimes they don't run for weeks depending on how you drive.
The AIR pump is turned on right after a cold start for about 30 seconds to a minute. If you don't hear that hoover sound then it's not coming on.

The pump is mounted under the left side right behind the bumper cover and it's accessed from underneath. Not sure about the price of the parts.
We have seen quite a few of those. It's the most common cause of a P0410 mainly because that code is for the whole system. There are codes for each bank of the AIR system but those check valves have seemed pretty reliable so far. If anyone has been working on it recently they might have left a vacuum line off, that can cause the code because the check valves won't open so the O2 sensors won't see the air pump run.
So, no the code might not come back right away depending on how you drive it.

Not sure about the price of the kit.

turbojimmy
12-17-06, 09:28 AM
Like ewill3rd says, it's probably the air pump. Mine was bad when I got my car, but it was also under water. I used a replacement from a salvage yard and it's been fine for the past couple of years.

Jim

codewize
12-17-06, 11:03 AM
Damn it. Well OK I'll have it checked out. I drive about 50 miles a day, when I drive.

I don't ever remember hearing a hoover sound under the car. I've bee driving this thing for almost a year now. Maybe I just never paid attention?

It look like the pump kit lists for around $200 and can be had for about half that. ALLData says .9 hrs labor flat rate. This is easily a $200 repair if I can't do it myself.

Anyone know how difficult it is to get to / change?

ewill3rd
12-17-06, 12:10 PM
It's very easy to do yourself if you can get under the front of the car.
The only real trick is putting in the redesigned air intake for the pump, snapping the cover on the pump so it doesn't suck up water and making sure the connector is not burnt up.

Ranger
12-17-06, 05:12 PM
Can't say as I have ever heard any vacuum cleaner sounds either. I'll have to pay closer attention.

Bill,
Briefly, how does this system work? Pumps cool air into the manifolds or pre CAT somewhere? I suspect manifolds as I see two valves. On all the time?

ewill3rd
12-17-06, 06:17 PM
AIR systems are a carryover from the 80's, thankfully now they are electric motors instead of belt driven pumps.

Basically here is what is going on. When an engine is cold the fuel air mixture must be richer in order to burn. The main purpose of the t-stat and other systems is to get the engine to an operating temperature where fuel can be efficiently controlled. That is not the case on a cold engine.
Richer fuel mixtures means more hydrocarbons per oxygen molecule passing into the combustion chamber. More HC and less O2 means they can't combine properly in the cylinder during combustion so you have flaming hot gasses coming out of the cylinder with excessive HC molecules. The AIR system simply gives that volatile mixture some O2 in order to burn off the extra HC. All the necessary things are already there except the oxygen.
Once the engine and combustion temps come up the AIR system is no longer needed because closed loop fuel control and O2 sensors start doing there thing so the AIR pump is shut off.
The check valves are just that, they keep the exhaust gasses from getting back into the pump and burning it up.
The old mechanical pumps and vacuum switched systems really sucked.
The only problem with some of the electric systems is they usually put them in places where they can suck water up from the roadway.
Water and electric air pumps are not a good mixture.

You can tell if your car has AIR by looking accross the top of the emissions decal. It will say things like HO2S, TWC, EGR, AIR (or SAI) and some others.
That identifies critical emissions control components.
If your late model Deville, Seville has AIR, you'll usually hear that vacuum cleaner sound on cold start ups but you might not notice it otherwise.

Man I don't feel so good... I gotta run.
Talk to you guys tomorrow.
Let me know if you need more info.

Only two nuts hold that air pump on, you need to partially remove the inner fender to install the new air pipe that connects to the air box.

FrankT
12-17-06, 07:07 PM
In addition to ewill's description, another reason the Secondary Air Injection system is to quickly bring the catalyst up to operating temperature. The cat is not very efficient until its hot, so getting it hot quicker will help reduce tail pipe emissions, especially with a cold engine that is running richer than a warmed up engine and is polluting more than a warmed up engine.
Frank

Ranger
12-17-06, 08:24 PM
Yeah, I remember those old AIR (smog) pumps from the 70's, but I thought they went away after some time. Can't recall one on my '92 or '97 Deville, my daughters previous '99 SLS or my wifes '96 Bonneville. Thanks for the clarification.

dp102288
12-17-06, 08:27 PM
Oh! That is the whining sound I hear in our SLS! Sounds just like a vacuum too!

codewize
12-18-06, 12:59 AM
DP I was just going to post that. I started my car this morning and heard the sound we've been discussing in the other thread.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/92443-quick-question-about-noise.html


It's most noticeable by sticking my head in front of the left front tire. Then the noise appears to be coming from just inside the inner fender. Exactly where the pump is located.

So I guess the pump is working.

Now what to look for.

ewill3rd
12-18-06, 06:34 AM
Code, has any one been working on the water pump lately?

Usually there is a big check valve mounted over the water pump cover and another on the rear cam cover. Under the engine cover in the back center of the top of the engine there is a solenoid with a vacuum line that splits and goes to both check valves. If that hose is disconnected on either end or broken, or if the solenoid is disconnected it will set a P0410.

codewize
12-18-06, 11:52 AM
No one working on the water pump but I had the cover off looking around and cleaning stuff. I'll go out in a minute and look around. Maybe I knocked something loose.

dp102288
12-18-06, 12:34 PM
Code, the vacuum does sound like front left from the engine on the SLS.

Is this the sound you were referring to in the other thread? Cause our SLS makes 2 sounds in relation to this. The hoover on the outside, and the dremel on the inside, mostly from the air vent above the headlight switch.

codewize
12-18-06, 02:57 PM
:bouncy: :woohoo:

Ok I think I found it. The vacuum T was unhooked near the rear cam cover.

As an FYI to everyone, it's pretty easy to knock this off when replacing the engine cover.
Thanks everyone for your help.

DP, I understand you're hearing 2 different noises. I think for me this was the one I was hearing. I can hear it inside the car too but I really think it's only one noise. I'll bet you're also hearing that little fan. Interesting that it's all the way to the left though.

ewill3rd
12-18-06, 04:58 PM
Yeah, if that vacuum line is unhooked the check valves won't open and you'll get a P0410 every time the test runs.

Here are the enable criteria for the P0410 self diagnostic. That means all these conditions must be met in order for the test to run:


Passive tests:

• The engine is running.

• The engine speed is more than 600 RPM.

• The throttle is steady

• The engine load is less than 80 percent.

• The system voltage is more than 10.5 volts.

• The MAF is less than 35 g/s.

• The air fuel ratio is more than 12.5:1

• The ECT is between 5°C (41°F) and 110°C (230°F).

• The IAT is between 5°C (41°F) and 60°C (140°F).

• The power enrichment, or the deceleration fuel cut-off function is not active.

Active Tests

• The engine is running.

• The engine speed is more than 600 RPM.

• The throttle is steady

• The engine load is less than 80 percent.

• The system voltage is more than 10.5 volts.

• The MAF is less than 35 g/s.

• The fuel system is in closed-loop operation.

• The EVAP purge is active.

• The ECT is more than 68°C (154°F).

clarkz71
12-18-06, 06:07 PM
In between the first version belt drive pumps and the new electric pumps there was a mech/electrical version. Late 80's early 90's Mercedes had a belt drive pump with a clutch, similer to an a/c clutch. It ran about 90 sec. Sounded just like the a/c cycling on & off.

dp102288
12-18-06, 08:34 PM
DP, I understand you're hearing 2 different noises. I think for me this was the one I was hearing. I can hear it inside the car too but I really think it's only one noise. I'll bet you're also hearing that little fan. Interesting that it's all the way to the left though.

Yeah! I can hear the hoover in the car no matter the outside temp, but the dremel comes on in frigid temps only.

ewill3rd
12-19-06, 06:53 AM
Maybe it sounds more like a Kirby? :D

dp102288
12-19-06, 12:34 PM
Our Oreck sounds just like out SLS...

ewill3rd
12-19-06, 12:55 PM
I haven't heard an oreck yet... I might need to buy one ;)

codewize
12-19-06, 09:08 PM
OK well guess what. I drove the car today for the first time since the alleged fix. Before I got out of the driveway the SES light came on with the same old P0410. So I said screw it. I'll have it looked at later.

Well I got down the road a bit and I smelled a very strong burning electrical smell. I figured it was the pump we're discussing so I kept driving.

No code and no problems the rest of the day. I'm guessing the pump is bad even though I found a vacuum hose off. It's going to the dealer as soon as I can get it there. No warranty so wish me luck.

dp102288
12-20-06, 10:26 PM
^^ Damn. Good luck at the dealer though!

codewize
12-20-06, 10:54 PM
I think I've got some bigger problems than this too. If anyone has been watching the Oil Pan Gasket Leak (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/86212-oil-pan-gasket-leak-2.html) thread or the Burning Oil Smell (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/85007-burning-oil-smell-3.html)in the Seville / Eldo threads you'll see my most recent posts.

This really sucks for a car with such low mileage

dp102288
12-21-06, 10:42 AM
:yeah: :(

codewize
12-27-06, 12:58 PM
So I think the system was freaked out when the vacuum line got plugged back in. I haven't seen the SES light since this last post. Thank goodness.

Now on to getting a warranty to cover the oil leak.

WyEldorado
06-14-08, 02:34 PM
I read all the post on this thread since I got the code in my 2002 Eldorado, ETC and took it to a shop where they informed me the back air injector valve was bad and needed to be replaced. They used a scan tool and followed the guide so hope its correct and not also a air pump since the vehicle was warm when I took it in. I have since ordered the valve through the dealer since couldn't find the valve any cheaper. My question is has anyone ever took the valve apart and cleaned it? Or is that a option? I just bought the car and the Service Engine Soon Light came on the way home so don't have any history. Thanks in advance and have learned alot on the CAD Forums.

Bud

2000 Eldorado ESC Diamond White
2000 Eldorado ESC Misty Bronze
2002 Eldorado ETC Pearl White

codewize
06-14-08, 10:38 PM
I wanted to get you a reply but I don't know the answer to that. my problem turned out to be a simple vacuum hose knocked off by the engine cover.

I'm sure someone will chime in with good info.

Ectodude
12-19-08, 11:57 PM
Hey all! Am I to believe that my CA emissions control 2000 Deville has TWO air pumps? I have 2 50 amp maxi fuses (both blown) in the underhood fuse block. 2 pumps?

codewize
12-20-08, 01:00 AM
I don't think the 50a Maxi's are for the secondary air system? I could be wrong but that seems like a LOOOTTTTT of amperage for that.

Secondly each car was different. Could be 1 pump, could be no pump, could be 2 pumps.

Some where around here there's a picture of how to tell. Lets see if we can find that. I think it's the number of relays on a small bracket mounted on the right side (passenger side) of the firewall.

FrankT
12-20-08, 09:16 AM
Hey all! Am I to believe that my CA emissions control 2000 Deville has TWO air pumps? I have 2 50 amp maxi fuses (both blown) in the underhood fuse block. 2 pumps?

Yes, the 50 amp fuse is for the AIR pump, that pump has in a inrush current of close to 60 amps and has a steady current draw of 30-36 amps while running. You can see your headlamps dim when that pump turns ON.

You probably have water intrusion in both pumps, there a tsb on it to redirect the AIR pump inlet hoses. Here a quick little test you can do, disconnect both AIR pump harness connectors, replace both 50 amp fuses and drive the car normally for a few days, if the fuses don't open, then you just found out that both pumps are shorted or have water contamination.

codewize
12-20-08, 09:55 AM
Wow, really? I'm very surprised. I'll be dipped. LOL

Yup water intrusion is one of the more common problems.

Both fuses are blown, Wow I'm just dumbfounded.

FrankT
12-20-08, 11:01 AM
Yup water intrusion is one of the more common problems.


Water intrusion in the AIR pump and AIR system has been an ongoing issue since 96MY and across most all of the GM platforms. Every vehicle that has the AIR pump just seems to digest water. That's one lesson they have not learned how to deal with.
ex. 2000MY Jimmy/Blazer, huge problem with water in the AIR system. There was finally a tsb that had you replace all of the AIR components with updated ones and reroute the AIR inlet hose. In fact, I still think the same problem exists with 06 -07 DTS and 6cly Envoy, go figure.

Submariner409
12-20-08, 12:35 PM
Those 2 fuses are identified on the sticker inside the the fuse box cover.

turbojimmy
03-09-09, 09:53 PM
Water intrusion in the AIR pump and AIR system has been an ongoing issue since 96MY and across most all of the GM platforms. Every vehicle that has the AIR pump just seems to digest water. That's one lesson they have not learned how to deal with.

The other is how to manufacture a reliable TCC solenoid. They regularly fail on my 1987 GN, and I just replaced the one in the Caddy. The difference is on the GN it's a 20-minute job, on the Caddy it's a 20-hour job. As soon as I saw it, I became enraged. A plastic connector essentially JB-Welded to the metal solenoid body. Is it any surprise that they come apart after years of being immersed in hot oil?! I get the whole engineered-obsolescence thing, but for pete's sake, give me at least 100k miles first!

But, that's not why I resurrected this old thread. After the 20-hour TCC replacement, my SES light came back on today. When the light came on I wanted to head for the nearest tree and end it all. But I resisted the suicidal tendencies and pulled the code (you can do it while you're driving, though I don't recommend it). Thankfully the codes was not the P0741, but a P0410. I did a search and whaddya know? This thread that I posted in years ago. I know my pump is plugged in because it was the one of the last steps in putting the car back together. I'm off to check the vacuum lines as suggested by the codewize - I didn't get the P0410 until I installed the manifold beauty cover today.....


Jim

Submariner409
03-10-09, 10:38 AM
A.I.R. operation is weird. Look at my post up in Deville in the "Failed NJ Inspection......" thread.

fox5flyer
09-10-09, 02:13 PM
Yes, the 50 amp fuse is for the AIR pump, that pump has in a inrush current of close to 60 amps and has a steady current draw of 30-36 amps while running. You can see your headlamps dim when that pump turns ON.

You probably have water intrusion in both pumps, there a tsb on it to redirect the AIR pump inlet hoses. Here a quick little test you can do, disconnect both AIR pump harness connectors, replace both 50 amp fuses and drive the car normally for a few days, if the fuses don't open, then you just found out that both pumps are shorted or have water contamination.

At the risk of resurrecting an old thread, I have a 2002 Seville SLS that has suddenly began to throw a P0410 code (current). There was also a history of B1860, U1000, and U1016, but I don't know if they are related.
I first checked the air pump fuse, but it was good. Not blown. Next, I tried to listen for the "vacuum cleaner sound", but I can't tell if that is what I'm hearing or just the engine in high idle (1200rpm). The high idle drops off to about 700 rpm after about 30 seconds or so.
OK, here's my question(s). Is there a way to determine if the pump is actually defective? I mean can it be checked while on the car? Or, if I remove it, can I bench check it by hooking 12V directly to it? Is it something that can be dismantled and cleaned? I just don't want to order a new pump until I'm sure that the pump I have is actually bad, as I understand that there are other things that will throw the P0410 code.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Deke
Mikado MI

Submariner409
09-10-09, 02:34 PM
Jack up the driver's front wheel and remove it and the inner fender liner. The A.I.R. pump is in there, sort of under and outboard of the surge tank area. It comes out with an electrical connector and hoses. Half hour. No reason you can't jump it across 12V to see if it runs. There are replacements and kits, one of which moves the air intake hose up into the engine compartment to prevent water intrusion. (No need to do the hose insert into the intake duct, however - that's for silence, not clean air......wire tie it up in there somewhere.) Also check the gray connector/relay block which is bracketed to the passenger side strut tower. That's the A.I.R. pump feed and relay.

The U codes are data streams, usually - not a big deal. They come and go like the wind.

B1860 is the driver's lumbar seat cushion adjuster malfunction. Under seat connectors, usually.

My A.I.R. pump is quiet - very hard to hear, and it does not operate every time, cold or hot start. No codes, so I don't fool with it..........

fox5flyer
09-10-09, 03:25 PM
Jack up the driver's front wheel and remove it and the inner fender liner. The A.I.R. pump is in there, sort of under and outboard of the surge tank area. It comes out with an electrical connector and hoses. Half hour. No reason you can't jump it across 12V to see if it runs. There are replacements and kits, one of which moves the air intake hose up into the engine compartment to prevent water intrusion. (No need to do the hose insert into the intake duct, however - that's for silence, not clean air......wire tie it up in there somewhere.) Also check the gray connector/relay block which is bracketed to the passenger side strut tower. That's the A.I.R. pump feed and relay.

The U codes are data streams, usually - not a big deal. They come and go like the wind.

B1860 is the driver's lumbar seat cushion adjuster malfunction. Under seat connectors, usually.

My A.I.R. pump is quiet - very hard to hear, and it does not operate every time, cold or hot start. No codes, so I don't fool with it..........

Thanks, Submariner. Great answers and I appreciate the quick response. As soon as I have some time I'll check it out and report back.
Deke
Mikado MI

klew122
09-30-09, 01:21 PM
I just went through the same thing with PCM P0410. Replaced the air pump and vaccuum solenoid, neither fixed the problem. It was the rear air valve, got it at junkyard for $75, better than $200 new. Finally had to find the real problem as the car would not pass emission testing for NY. It was easy to hear the difference of the front valve (which opened) when the vacuum was applied vs the rear which stayed closed. If you take the air pump hose off the valves (and they open with vaccuum), you can hear the noise from the exhaust manifold.

sparky58
12-11-09, 01:10 PM
Code, has any one been working on the water pump lately?

Usually there is a big check valve mounted over the water pump cover and another on the rear cam cover. Under the engine cover in the back center of the top of the engine there is a solenoid with a vacuum line that splits and goes to both check valves. If that hose is disconnected on either end or broken, or if the solenoid is disconnected it will set a P0410.

If the hose is disconnected, will it cause the pump not to run. Mechanic ran power to pump and it didn't run. He didn't check the hoses.

Thanks,
Sparky

Ranger
12-11-09, 01:28 PM
If the hose is disconnected, will it cause the pump not to run.
No, it's just air supply.

sparky58
12-11-09, 02:18 PM
No, it's just air supply.

I must have a bad pump, would running direct power to it make it run, or are their other parameters?

Submariner409
12-11-09, 03:06 PM
You can jumper the pump leads to do a test, but that pump supplies fresh air to the exhaust manifolds in order to light off the cat quickly from cold start. Lots of conditions control on and off times, so the pump must be controlled by the emissions system and PCM.

ewill3rd
12-11-09, 06:20 PM
There is a maxi fuse in the underhood fuse block check to see if it is blown.
If it is, the thing has probabaly sucked in water.
If you power and ground the pump and it won't run, it is bad.

Doing so might be tricky.
I have access to the scan tool so I go to the special functions and turn the pump on that way.

Ranger
12-11-09, 07:29 PM
Bill, do you know when they fixed the water ingestion problem? Just wondering if a failure is in my future.

chasplaybass
12-13-09, 12:15 AM
Hey Ranger I need your input.
i just finished replacing both front and rear check valves on 2001 DTS. I will detail my adventure in a different post. The engine light is still on will it clear itself or will I have to get it cleared?
Must say the rear valve was a pain getting to the bottom mount bolt and the hose screws.
But please look over my post and see if its something you can add to make the experience more pleasant for other DIYers.
thanks

Ranger
12-13-09, 02:58 PM
If that was the cause of the SES light and you fixed it, the light will go out and the code will go to history after 3 successful ignition cycles with no failure detected, unless you clear the code yourself.

chasplaybass
12-18-09, 03:35 PM
Thanks
It didnt go out so I took it to a mechanic who cleared it for $25. He said everything came back clear and ready. Found out that Au Zo parts store can only give you the code but they are not suppose to clear?
Thanks again

Submariner409
12-18-09, 04:55 PM
Learn to pull, read, and clear your own codes. The sticky thread at the top of this main page or up in Seville and Deville: "How to pull codes". Read the entire post, then pull your codes and return to the post and click on the link with "obd2" in the URL, then click on the P,B,C, and U links in the Main Index box.

Ranger, if you can fabricate dogbones, you can run a longer AIR tube up into the engine compartment - that's the water problem right there.

ewill3rd
12-18-09, 06:05 PM
Ranger,

Basically 2000 to 2003.
The latest TSB is version G and it is dated June 5, 2006.
It varies depending on the model.

Ranger
12-18-09, 06:39 PM
I'll look into that Jim, but based on what Bill said I probably do not have to.

ewill3rd
12-18-09, 09:33 PM
As you probably know the revised air intake has a box that clips to the inner fender to get air from the air box rather than just drawing air through a screen in the front part of the fender well.
They still manage to get water in them. Not the best place to mount an AIR pump.

Ranger
12-18-09, 09:54 PM
Thanks Bill. I'll have to have a look see. I've never checked it (or had a problem with it......yet) so I don't even know what the air pump looks like.

turbojimmy
12-22-09, 08:38 AM
Thanks Bill. I'll have to have a look see. I've never checked it (or had a problem with it......yet) so I don't even know what the air pump looks like.

Hitting a Ford Explorer at speed gives you easy access to the air pump and associated plumbing. #2 in the pic is the pump. #1 is the revised plumbing that attaches high up inside the fender.

http://www.turbojimmy.com/caddy_cutaway.jpg

Jim

ewill3rd
12-22-09, 09:25 AM
Wow, I have never tried that method to access the hose before.
Looks like that one has the updated parts from what I can see.
Don't be offended but I might do it the old fashioned way.... ;)

turbojimmy
12-26-09, 08:56 AM
Wow, I have never tried that method to access the hose before.
Looks like that one has the updated parts from what I can see.
Don't be offended but I might do it the old fashioned way.... ;)

Reassembly is much more expensive if you do it my way ;-)

Jim

codewize
12-26-09, 12:31 PM
Hey, I think I know that car ;)

turbojimmy
12-28-09, 09:02 AM
Hey, I think I know that car ;)

Yeah, I still miss it even though it still haunts me.

I'm back in the game, though. I agreed to take my grandfather's '95 Deville Councours when he passed away on 12/19. It needed to get out of his name to keep from complicating the will. It has no real value to the average joe. It's been sitting in his basement for 2 years. It ran great when he parked it there, and it looks like it will clean up nice. I need it for the winter. The Trans Am, as predicted, has proven to be less than capable in the bad weather.

He also had a green on green '79 Fleetwood Broughm. It's really rough though - no one wanted it.

Jim

codewize
12-29-09, 08:04 PM
I really want a Brougham of that vintage but the green kills it for me in any condition. Plus I don't really want a project, I want a nice clean car.

turbojimmy
12-29-09, 08:31 PM
I really want a Brougham of that vintage but the green kills it for me in any condition. Plus I don't really want a project, I want a nice clean car.

It was a nice clean car. He parked it in one of those portable outdoor garages and forgot about it. Evidently it gets REALLY humid in those things. Lots of mold and mildew. Pretty much a basket case now.

Jim

codewize
12-29-09, 09:48 PM
That's a shame. I love those even if it is green.

turbojimmy
12-30-09, 03:07 PM
That's a shame. I love those even if it is green.

Yeah, he got too old to drive it. It was beautiful in the day. Metallic green and green leather (if you're into that sort of thing).

The '95 Deville is that blue/green color. It has about a 1/4" coating of dust on it, but it'll clean up. He had just had the TCC solenoid fixed when he parked it, too. One less headache (though the trans curiously puked all the fluid out as it sat).

Here's the poor thing as it sits in his basement:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/1995_Deville.jpg

I hope to get it out of there within the next couple of weeks.

Jim

codewize
12-30-09, 11:04 PM
Dude, that's a Touring Sedan

turbojimmy
12-31-09, 08:44 AM
Dude, that's a Touring Sedan

I don't even know what that is - I'll have to look it up. I thought he said it was a Concours. Is a Touring Sedan a version of the Concours?

Jim

EDIT: Duh. I get it. As in DTS. As far as I know, the Concours was the DTS equivalent in 1995. It has the higher output engine, I know that for sure.

codewize
12-31-09, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure the Concours was the DTS equivalent. I think there was still a DTS but I guess the Concours also had the emblem in the grille. That's why I said that.

Yeah the Concours is a nice car. I think that was a model where they gave you the HP but kept everything else luxury. I don't know a ton about them but they're a nice looking car. They also have partial wheel cover on the rear wheel, right. Like a baby sender skirt.

They're sharp. clean her up and love her.

turbojimmy
12-31-09, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure the Concours was the DTS equivalent. I think there was still a DTS but I guess the Concours also had the emblem in the grille. That's why I said that.

Yeah the Concours is a nice car. I think that was a model where they gave you the HP but kept everything else luxury. I don't know a ton about them but they're a nice looking car. They also have partial wheel cover on the rear wheel, right. Like a baby sender skirt.

They're sharp. clean her up and love her.

It was a great looking car at one point in time. Still has the wheel covers on the rear wheels. Vanity mirrors for the rear seat passengers. Unfortunately it doesn't have heated seats, which is one thing I really miss about my old DTS. I'll have to put a remote starter in this one to warm it up.

Jim

codewize
12-31-09, 04:48 PM
Yeah, funny I was just talking to someone else about that. I wonder why they didn't have heated seats in those. Unless it was a costly option and few people got it.

turbojimmy
01-01-10, 03:05 PM
Yeah, funny I was just talking to someone else about that. I wonder why they didn't have heated seats in those. Unless it was a costly option and few people got it.

You could get them, but it must be very rare. In searching for pics of '95s I came across a Concours at a used car dealer that had heated seats.

Waltbeal
06-15-12, 12:07 PM
Service engine light came on and when I run the codes I get PCM P0410, am I harming the car
running it with this code??

Waltbeal

Submariner409
06-15-12, 01:48 PM
No, especially not in the warm weather, but the code and/or system fault will fail an emissions test.

Your car - the compressor is on the frame flat indide and in front of the LF wheel - behind the plastic liner. There's a solenoid and vacuum switch on the right (rear) side of the engine, at the fuel rail. That solenoid ports actuating vacuum to two AIR valves - the one next to the solenoid, the other just next to the "lower" radiator hose on the driver's side.

Check the electrical connectors and the vacuum lines. Any broken vacuum line/elbow can be replaced with a length of proper sized vacuum tubing from any parts store.

Hunter9155
10-04-12, 05:50 PM
My 2001 Eldorado got a SES while we were on vacation in Holland Michigan. The dealer up there told us we needed a new intake boot as the old one was cracked. We had them replace it and it fixed the problem. The next day the light came back on and we took it back and they said the code P0410 meant the secondary air pump was seized and needed replaced. When I got home I replaced it as it just unbolts and pulls straight down from under the bumper cover. It just took 10 minutes and a $150 dollar pump. I got the code reset and it came on the next day again. So I came on here and read a post from Submariner mentioning a vacuum hose problem. I checked and the dealer either forgot or accidentally pulled it off and it wasn't replaced. I put it back on and don't expect anymore problems.
Thanks Submariner. You don't know me but your expertise solved my problem and saved me buying 2 air shutoff valves at approx $50 each.
Kevin

Submariner409
10-04-12, 07:32 PM
Glad you found the problem - after some $$$ - Now you know it's all black magic..................:thumbsup:

Marques
09-01-13, 01:06 PM
I have an 01 Deville with the same code. I replaced the air pump, fuse and the valves are good and vacuume hoses are good. What else could cause this code?

Ranger
09-01-13, 02:43 PM
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410

Submariner409
09-01-13, 02:46 PM
It looks like your multiple duplicate posts, 3 minutes apart, auto-merged. You need only post a question one time.

Go back through this entire old thread, then look through the pages of Discussions, Item Specific: Cadillac Tech Tips for threads on the AIR system. Then, if still no joy, try to Google "cadillac forums 2001 deville secondary air system".

Next to the #1 (right) rear bank AIR valve there is a solenoid control valve with 3 vacuum lines attached. Trace out those lines and make sure they are not leaking/broken. Any of those plastic lines and rubber connectors may be replaced with a proper length of correct sized vacuum tubing from the Help! racks at any large parts store or NAPA.

rtseller
09-16-13, 06:18 PM
Will the pump only come on if the car is cold, if so does it get information form the engine temp or is there a sensor? I have checked all the wires , if you are wondering; the small brown goes to computer, the small red goes the fuse box ign1 10 amp fuse, One of the large red wires go to the 50 amp fuse and the other goes to the pump.

I have replaced the pump. When i start the car with a multi meter connected to the plug (pump disconnected) it reads up to 15 Volts for a period then drops to zero (as expected). When I connect the pump and connect a multi meter is has no voltage and the pump does not come on. I have checked the pump and it is operational. I'm getting punchy. Thanks for being a great source of info!

Submariner409
09-16-13, 07:19 PM
The AIR operates only briefly during cold/cool startup to light off the cat, and even that run possibility or run time is determined by coolant temp, ambient air temp, black magic and the phase of the moon.

You might (might) go a whole summer and never hear it run. Now, during those cool fall mornings, it will run more frequently.

rtseller
09-16-13, 09:49 PM
It was a bad ground on the pump to the block. The bolt connecting it to the block was missing a washer in and would make contact occasionally. Hopefully that did it. Thanks for replying

juniormyrick
01-03-14, 02:09 PM
Just a side note, I am under the impression that when my AIR PUMP went out, It took about 1-3 months before my CAT was Clogged. I replaced the cat at 150,000K and 1-3 months later My CAT was clogged again. My question to you is "Does the introduction of fresh air in the 'Cold Start' prevent Cat clogging emissions?" in other words, Did the air pump failure cause my cat to plug in those 1-3 months? Keywords: AIR PUMP, plugged CAT, Thanks guys. JM

Ranger
01-03-14, 10:41 PM
I don't think the CAT failure is AIR pump related. All the AIR pump does is blow fresh air into the exhaust to light the CAT off quicker. Kind of like a blacksmith using bellows to blow fresh air into the coals to get the fire hotter and the metal heated to a workable temperature. The quicker the CAT lights, the quicker it does it's job. It's strictly an emission related thing mandated by the EPA.

MoistCabbage
01-04-14, 12:50 AM
Yeah, A.I.R. system failure does nothing to the cat.

juniormyrick
01-04-14, 02:01 AM
I'm at a loss.. What would cause me to go through two $600 CATS in 6 months?? Clean synthetic oil, only Shell Premium gas, New filters Air/oil ect? :thepan:

skuppej
01-04-14, 07:12 AM
I purchased my 02 Seville with some bad strut mounts and I live in a hilly location, so I would bottom out all the time. Eventually, after enough scraping, the filter box below the car just ripped off, leaving the tubing hanging down and the blower sucking dirty air from beneath.
I got around to fixing the struts earlier this weekend and while doing this I decided to just remove the darn thing entirely. It is unnecessary, I feel, in warmer climate zones. And it only runs at a cold boot. Car seems to be working fine.

MoistCabbage
01-04-14, 10:43 AM
Clean synthetic oil, only Shell Premium gas, New filters Air/oil ect? :thepan:All irrelevant to the cat. Has anyone check for a faulty FPR?

----------


I purchased my 02 Seville with some bad strut mounts and I live in a hilly location, so I would bottom out all the time. Eventually, after enough scraping, the filter box below the car just ripped off, leaving the tubing hanging down and the blower sucking dirty air from beneath.
I got around to fixing the struts earlier this weekend and while doing this I decided to just remove the darn thing entirely. It is unnecessary, I feel, in warmer climate zones. And it only runs at a cold boot. Car seems to be working fine.Bad strut mounts don't cause bottoming out.

An inop A.I.R. system won't do any harm to the car. However, it is an emissions system. A proem with the system will set a code and the SES light will remain on. An automatic fail for emissions testing.

Also, FWIW, a cat operates at 1,200-1,600 degrees. The A.I.R. system gets it up to temp quicker. A 50 degree difference between a "cold climate" and a "warm climate" is completely irrelevant.

Ranger
01-04-14, 11:09 AM
I'm at a loss.. What would cause me to go through two $600 CATS in 6 months?? Clean synthetic oil, only Shell Premium gas, New filters Air/oil ect? :thepan:


All irrelevant to the cat. Has anyone check for a faulty FPR?
:yeah: A rich running engine can dump raw fuel into the CAT and burn it up.