: Northstar vs 4.9



Vesicant
03-06-04, 12:50 AM
I find it hard to believe the 4.9 with only 200 hp and 285 ft/lbs of torque could actually keep up and give a Northstar equipped simmular car... a run for its money. I know the torque figures are simmular (i think?) but shouldnt the Northstar just blow it away? Id think it would certainly kill it in the top end.

Anyone care to explain? Ill gladly listen!



Example Vehicle : Mid 90's Cadillac DeVille

LacSeville
03-06-04, 12:53 AM
i'll explain briefly.... 4-9 is a good run for the 4-6 til about 30 mph :want: .... then that's about the end of that race :bonkers: ... i'm done. somebody pick up here

capn
03-06-04, 07:48 PM
well im guessing it has to do where the torque comes in the N* has its peak tq at 4400 rpm and the 4.9 may have a lower tq curve, and hp is higher in the rpm range too compared to the N*.

thats my 2.5 cents

BeelzeBob
03-06-04, 11:53 PM
I find it hard to believe the 4.9 with only 200 hp and 285 ft/lbs of torque could actually keep up and give a Northstar equipped simmular car... a run for its money.

Who said that a 4.9 car could run with a Northstar car....???... It won't. No comparison.

A 4.9 has good torque and good torque down at lower RPM. It actually does make a little more torque than a Northstar down below 3000 RPM. Also, to point out the obvious, a 4.9 is a larger displacement engine than a 4.6 liter Northstar. You know the old addage about "you can't beat cubic inches..."...??? It is true to a certain point.

A 4.9 shifts gears at full throttle at about 4500 RPM.... A Northstar shifts gears at 6000 RPM...or 6500 with the L37 engine. That is where the big difference comes into play.

Off the line, side by side, a 4.9 will launch pretty even with a Northstar and they will stay close until about 25 or 30....then the Northstar just starts to walk away (once it can get the RPM up to where it is making its power) and then it leaves the 4.9 for dead.

The 4.9 is nice engine and does an excellent job...but...it has technology from the late 70's in it. In the investigation into what it would take to make the 4.9 worldclass and creat a powerplant for Cadillac that would work into the late 90's and into the 2000's the answer was clear...a clean sheet of paper engine...the NOrthstar. The 4.9 is yesterday....

Ralph
03-07-04, 12:09 AM
The 4.9 SEEMS every bit as strong as my Dad's new Northstar, but the N* made better power above 70mph. Must be the 4 valve heads, etc. The 4.9 is a bouvevard beast, and has NOTHING to apologize for! It's easy at a green light to accidently squeel the tires if you're not thinking about it. It still feels strong above 70 mph IMO, like passing semi's, etc.

Vesicant
03-07-04, 01:02 AM
Heh... strong as in "good sounding engine note , trying to pass above 70"
:shhh:


(j/k)

Ralph
03-07-04, 01:35 AM
Heh... strong as in "good sounding engine note , trying to pass above 70"
:shhh:


(j/k)

:devil: Ya, that too! ;) On the highway, I usually set the cruise to 65mph (about 104 kph) and if I have to pass a large truck or something, I'm already going fast enough with momentem to overcome anything, and this engines power does impress me! My '91 Grand Marquis with a 5.0 L was just too damn heavy for the engine, but with 400 pounds of fat removed, the 4.9 moves just fine. ;) The 4.9 has the power where I need it anyway, at the lights, next to a small Benz or Civic. :D

Eldobroken
03-07-04, 04:57 AM
I find it hard to believe the 4.9 with only 200 hp and 285 ft/lbs of torque could actually keep up and give a Northstar equipped simmular car... a run for its money. I know the torque figures are simmular (i think?) but shouldnt the Northstar just blow it away? Id think it would certainly kill it in the top end.

Anyone care to explain? Ill gladly listen!



Example Vehicle : Mid 90's Cadillac DeVille
My Buddy has a 93 Eldo with a 4.9 and i have a 94 Touring coupe with a few mods and better traction. He stays even for about 1 or 2 seconds and then he is completly over with. His car seems good for burning the wheels but anywhere near highway speed I let him hit it first then i am flying past him and then some. We drove all the way to Fla from Ny in the 2 cars. One big mistake i made was letting him drive my car he must have been riding the brakes beacuse my rotors went from perfect to shot in about an hour of him driving:want: . Anyway no comparion the northstar loves to run 3500 and up closest thing to a racecar engine i know. Another trip i made was with my friend in a henessy viper 500 some odd Hp I didnt have a chance in hell. I Drive the Viper on occasion thats all Cubic inches it pulls like hell even from 1000 rpm one huge torque monster very deceving and very quiet not much high reving needed at all. But I think it is like 10 liters compared to a naturally aspirated 4.6. N* HP per cubic inch the northstar still makes more power then even the viper Per cubic inch or liter. Too Bad it is such a pain in the ass to put a northstar into another lighter car and make it RWD with a nice 5 speed.

Night Wolf
03-07-04, 02:41 PM
I remember making a similar thread back when I first got my car... for some reason I "didn't like" the 4.9..... turns out, it is a great engine, compared to the N*, it is far more simple and easy to work on.... less things to go wrong... I just wish the V8 wasn't crammed into the SMALL engine bay of my CDV.....

I have actually never drove a Cad with the N*, but from logic, and what I heard, from a stop to about 35 the 4.9 will pull harder.... the tourqe is very similar, and the 4.9 makes it much more sooner... the engine is a low rpm enigne, so simply saying because 1 engine revs higher then the other dosn't mean it is faster.... diesels only rev to 3k rpm, but they rev up slower, and make alot more tourqe etc.... My 4.9 usualy did the 1-2 shift at 4950rpm and once I got it to 5100.... 5250 is the redline... Keep in mind, I have the 2.73 FDR, so that can tax the engine a little... Also, my '93 DeVille is almost 500lbs lighter then the '92+ Eldo/Seville and '94+ Deville (all of those cars had either the 4.9 or N*, although the FDR was more aggressive)

I was bothered by my 16.0 time at the 1/4.... but realize that from a stop, the car makes a crazy amount of off-idle tourqe, While I didn't hit 3rd at the track, once it hits 3rd (about 85mph) things slow wayyy down.... this engine can definitly hold it's own... and for "only" having 200hp, it sure moves... it is a tourqe monster.... Also, they are extremly reliable engines.....

I heard that the N* is crazy on the highway and akes off like crazy when you stomp on it... my next car is gonna be a '96+ ETC, so I get to have fun then :D

Just to show how much weight and gearing come into play, put a stock 4.9 into a stock Fiero, your choise of tranny, and the car is instant low 13s in the 1/4.... oh yeah....

Dubya
03-07-04, 03:41 PM
my problem is i want a DTS,STS and ETC, even a CTS......lol

i ran up against a 4.9 4door deville once, 2 girils in it. from like 50mph i walked on them pretty easy with my 4.0northstar (small mods) they were all waving and smiling, to bad they wern't cute.....cause it was on the day i broke up with my girlfriend! lol

Pimpin_Whity
03-07-04, 10:42 PM
My Buddy has a 93 Eldo with a 4.9 and i have a 94 Touring coupe with a few mods and better traction. He stays even for about 1 or 2 seconds and then he is completly over with. His car seems good for burning the wheels but anywhere near highway speed I let him hit it first then i am flying past him and then some. We drove all the way to Fla from Ny in the 2 cars. One big mistake i made was letting him drive my car he must have been riding the brakes beacuse my rotors went from perfect to shot in about an hour of him driving:want: . Anyway no comparion the northstar loves to run 3500 and up closest thing to a racecar engine i know. Another trip i made was with my friend in a henessy viper 500 some odd Hp I didnt have a chance in hell. I Drive the Viper on occasion thats all Cubic inches it pulls like hell even from 1000 rpm one huge torque monster very deceving and very quiet not much high reving needed at all. But I think it is like 10 liters compared to a naturally aspirated 4.6. N* HP per cubic inch the northstar still makes more power then even the viper Per cubic inch or liter. Too Bad it is such a pain in the ass to put a northstar into another lighter car and make it RWD with a nice 5 speed.you're right about the viper, i had the pleasure of driving a custom supercharged rt/10 and it's AMAZING it probably has more torque when the engine is off then the N* :bonkers: . and the best thing is that this dumbass with a twin turbo supra raced him on the drag strip (he must have seen the fast and the furious :rolleyes: ), he was :blasted: (the viper does 1/4 mile in the mid 9second range), i just love seeing a ricer get humiliated. If i win the lottery that's the first thing i'm getting :worship: , or a fire engine red 59 coupe deville :coolgleam .

airfuel2001
06-30-07, 12:54 AM
Im not all that impressed in my N* Ive modded everything to my knowledge and I got embarrased by a STOCK ls1 camaro. I was i car ahead of him-I hit it first, he gobbled me up and put distance on me no good!!