: Temperature Concerns



VilleBilly
11-30-06, 01:54 PM
2000 ESC, I have analog style gauges and am unable to tell exact temperatures. The temp gauge reads about a needles width past center line or a little after 12 o'clock during normal driving, and about 5/8 to 3/4 past center line or 1:30 to 2:00 while in traffic. Is this normal? What size radiator should i have-2 core, 3 core, 4 core? I live in las vegas and generally upgrade my radiators. Does anyone make a performance radiator for my car, Is this an option?

I_Finally_Have_A_Cad
11-30-06, 03:37 PM
2 o' clock may be pushing it, but it might just be you thinking it's further than it is. If it is staying around 12 o' clock, then you are fine and there is no better way to go than stock.

Some one correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is a way to get a digital reading on the message center.

Ranger
11-30-06, 05:00 PM
I think you can get a digital reading on only certain years. Maybe OBDI only, not really sure.

My '03 DHS & my daughters "02 SLS run dead on 12:00. I'd be a little concerned at 1:30 or 2:00. Check the stat & belt tensioner.

codewize
11-30-06, 05:36 PM
^^^ Mine too.

My 01 DTS runs dead on 12 unless it's over 90 deg out and / or I run the car hard and shut it off without substantial cool down time. Even then I only see it creep past 12. Maybe halfway to the next tick mark

dp102288
11-30-06, 09:38 PM
I could swear I thought i once saw a digital temp for coolant in the SLS. Now I am going to double-check. I will report back.

My 95 Eldo does have a digital readout, but conversly, its not on all the time so I never know what's it at.

VilleBilly
12-01-06, 12:19 AM
what about the radiator size? and is there a performance upgrade?

JimD
12-01-06, 07:23 AM
2000 ESC, I have analog style gauges and am unable to tell exact temperatures. The temp gauge reads about a needles width past center line or a little after 12 o'clock during normal driving, and about 5/8 to 3/4 past center line or 1:30 to 2:00 while in traffic. ....


Your temperatures may very well be normal, but check the easy to get to items like pump drive belt and tensioner, and the pressure cap.

When you are not running air conditioning, the electric fans cycle on and off as commanded by the PCM. Fans ON at approximately 223 degrees and OFF at approx. 212 degrees. You can check fan operation at idle but you will have to look under the hood (you cannot hear the fans running) while someone else watches the temperature needle.

Or, do your normal drive with air conditioning ON and see if the coolant temperature stays closer to 12 o'clock with no fluctuations. Both cooling system fans are commanded ON continuously when A/C is ON.

About the gauge and no temperature scale, I did some driveway measurements on my '98 Seville. One mark past 12 o'clock is about 233 degrees and 2 marks past 12 o'clock is about 250 degrees. Your Eldo gauge might be slightly different, but I doubt it.

I_Finally_Have_A_Cad
12-01-06, 11:59 AM
what about the radiator size? and is there a performance upgrade?

I already told you to stay with AC Delco. These vehicles are fine the way they are. If you want to blow your money in having an aftermarket vehicle, get a hot rod.

dkozloski
12-01-06, 12:07 PM
I already told you to stay with AC Delco. These vehicles are fine the way they are. If you want to blow your money in having an aftermarket vehicle, get a hot rod.
Aren't GM radiators made by Harrison?

I_Finally_Have_A_Cad
12-01-06, 01:51 PM
Perhaps. The point is to stick with stock.

AlBundy
12-01-06, 04:18 PM
There is a way to put the coolant temp on the DIC for OBII cars. I'm not sure about cars after 2000 thou. It should be in the tech tips section.

mtflight
12-01-06, 05:59 PM
2000 ESC, I have analog style gauges and am unable to tell exact temperatures. The temp gauge reads about a needles width past center line or a little after 12 o'clock during normal driving, and about 5/8 to 3/4 past center line or 1:30 to 2:00 while in traffic. Is this normal?


Here is a picture of the 2nd hottest time I've seen my temperature gauge go.

I was at a standstill on I-35 in Austin, TX.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/mtflight/etc/hotdayintraffic.jpg

The hottest I've seen was 238, after riding around in 2nd "cleaning out the carbon" revving the snot out of it. I quit that when I noticed it was hotter than usual.

Here are some descriptions on how this works, from the FSM:




Engine Coolant Temperature
The PCM monitors the engine coolant temperature sender in order to determine the current engine operating temperature. The PCM filters the input and sends a message via the class 2 serial data line. For normal engine operation, the analog gauge indicates half scale throughout normal thermostatic cycling.

Engine Coolant Temperature Warning (medium chime) -- When the powertrain control module (PCM) determines that the coolant temperature has exceeded approximately 131°C (270°F), the PCM sends a class 2 message. When the IPC receives the message, the IPC displays the ENGINE OVERHEATED-STOP ENGINE message on the driver message center. The PCM sends a class 2 message requesting the IRC to activate the chime.



The following section is on the FSM up to 1999 for the Eldorado. It tells you how to add the COOLANT TEMPERATURE display.

Note that I did not find it for 2000 Eldorado, or 1998 and up Seville, so explore this at your own risk, if you choose to do it.

Obviously if you don't understand it, well don't do it! :bigroll:



Diagnostics
The IPC detects various malfunctions in the following components:

The sensors
The input switches
The components and systems the IPC controls
The components and systems with which the IPC communicatesWhen the IPC (or another microprocessor-controlled module) detects a malfunction, the following actions may occur:

An IPC indicator is activated.
A message is displayed on the driver message center.
A DTC is set in the IPC's (or another module's) memory.Some DTCs may not cause an IPC message to be displayed. Some DTCs may not activate an IPC indicator lamp.

In order to display various IPC input and output parameters, any set DTC, and change the various IPC override options, use one of the following methods:

Enter the Vehicle Diagnostic System.
Display the information on the IPC driver message center. Refer to Vehicle Diagnostic System.IPC Diagnostic Parameters
The IPC Diagnostic Parameters section is divided into three parts:

The IPC Data Displays
The IPC Input Displays
The IPC Output Override DisplaysThe IPC data displays comprise those system input signals that contain a byte of information (usually, but not always) between 0-255 counts. The IPC Data Displays may be called up only using the service diagnostics or the scan tool .

The IPC input displays are those inputs that are represented by a HIGH/LOW designation. HIGH is equal to voltage (digital 1). LOW is equal to ground (digital 0).

:thumbsup: The IPC output override displays contain information on the default option conditions for the vehicle. The default conditions include the following items:

The driver message center message display suppression
The optional equipment installations
The export country
The HVAC or IPC mode selections
IPC Data Displays
...skipped..

IPC Override Displays

Important
If any of the override values are changed and the following procedure is not followed, DTC B1557 may be set. DTC B1557 may not be cleared. DTC B1557 is a non-recoverable condition. Replace the IPC if DTC B1557 is present. If the OFF button is pressed and the IPC displays the IPC CLEAR CODES message, exit the vehicle diagnostic system and start over. This action resets the override options back to the original values and prevents DTC B1557 from setting.

The current override value is displayed in the trip odometer display. Follow the procedure below in order to change the override value.
Add the value of the new feature (shown on the right) to the displayed override value.

Increment the value by pressing the appropriate button below:
Digital IPC -- the CCC warmer (RED) button
Analog IPC -- the CCP PASS warmer (up arrow) button

Decrement the value by pressing the appropriate button below:
Digital IPC -- the CCC cooler (BLUE) button
Analog IPC -- the CCP PASS cooler (down arrow) button

In order to permanently store the new value, press and hold the buttons below until the new displayed override value flashes once (approximately 5 seconds):
Digital IPC -- the front defrost (symbol) and the AUTO/ECON buttons
Analog IPC -- the front defrost (symbol) and the A/C buttons

IPS00
This test displays none. No overrides are active at this point.

IPS01
Option A:

Universal Theft Deterrent enabled -- 8
Personalization/Memory installed -- 4
Always set -- 1
IPS02
Option B (Export Country):

European Economic Community (EEC) -- 16
Japan -- 8
Saudi Arabia -- 4
Canada -- 2
Norway/Sweden -- 1
IPS03

Option C:
RSS installed -- 128
Premium Unleaded Fuel Only graphic suppression (digital) -- 64
Always set -- 32
Cellular Telephone installed -- 16
BTSI message suppression -- 4
Options not set -- 2
FUEL LEVEL LOW message suppression -- 1

IPS04


Option D:
Afterblow enabled -- 128
Dual Zone HVAC installed -- 8

IPS05


Option E (driver message center display options):

:thumbsup: COOLANT TEMP message -- 64
BATTERY VOLTS message -- 32
ENGINE RPM (digital) message -- 16
AVG MPH message -- 8
MPH (digital) message -- 4
FUEL USED message -- 2
INST MPG message -- 1
Important
The assembly plant sets the digital IPCs to 122. The plant sets the analog IPCs to 43.

JimHare
12-03-06, 08:52 AM
VilleBilly, the instructions for setting the coolant temp to be visible on the DIC are the top sticky in the Tech Tips forum. Follow them EXACTLY and you should be fine - I've had mine turned on for about a year or so, with no problems.

As has been noted here before, the analog needle, at least in most of our cars, has a wide range of 'sensitivity' - the straight-up, 12:00 o'clock position is indicative of actual temperatures from about 195 to maybe 205 to 210 or so.

The hottest I've ever seen my 01 ETC is 228 on the DIC, but the needle had not even reached the first tick mark to the right of the 12:00 tick on the gauge. This was in stop-and-go traffic, ambient temp about 98F, with the AC on back in July or August.

I think the gauges are fairly reliable in terms of giving you the general idea of the engine's temperature - since the N* tends to run 'hotter' than what many of us were used to from the old days, we get a little spooked when we see temps of 220-240, but unless you ALWAYS see it at that range, there is nothing to worry about. As others have noted the electric cooling fans don't even come on until about 228 or 230.

My ETC tends to run at 197-201F 99% of the time.