: X Box 360 vs. PS3 from a developers point of view



Blackout
11-30-06, 05:26 AM
I just saw this on another forum and figured I'd post it here since there are a couple of video game guys here. Enjoy!

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

gothicaleigh
11-30-06, 08:03 AM
You win Blackout. The 360 owns all. That good enough?









:p

Honestly, why should I care that it's more work for a game developer to produce a game for the PS3? On my side of the fence, it's the end result that matters; Not how much effort it took to get there.

The PS2 was once thought a horribly aggravating system to program for. That didn't stop it from becoming the most successful console of it's generation though.





Did you know that Chevrolet is better than Cadillac because they are easier to build? It's true. And those handbuilt V-series engines are the worst. What was GM thinking?! ;)

railven
11-30-06, 09:05 AM
You win Blackout. The 360 owns all. That good enough?









:p

Honestly, why should I care that it's more work for a game developer to produce a game for the PS3? On my side of the fence, it's the end result that matters; Not how much effort it took to get there.

The PS2 was once thought a horribly aggravating system to program for. That didn't stop it from becoming the most successful console of it's generation though.





Did you know that Chevrolet is better than Cadillac because they are easier to build? It's true. And those handbuilt V-series engines are the worst. What was GM thinking?! ;)

Actually if I remember right by sales record it is The most successful console of all time in the home market because Gameboy spanked it in over all gaming console sales.

I was taught "anything worth having is worth working for." The PS2's dev kits where notorious for their "learning curve" and by comparison of first generation PS2 games to latest you'd see they pretty much got it. Those games are pushing the PS2 to its limits, don't quote me on that I don't know the theoritical output of PS2 by heart.

Again, the 360 uses DX9 as its API featurette. DX has been around for almost eight years, or is it ten someone correct me if I'm wrong. That is why PC games are probably fifty times easier to port to 360 then to any other system. Damn, look at Doom/Prey/HL2/FEAR all huge PC games. You think Vivendi/ID wouldn't convert that to a Mac game if it weren't so easy? Two different architectures thus harder to port but the X-Box/360 well they got ports within months.

In fact the 360 is going to start using DX10 and thus will be integrated into Windows Vista.

MS got the best software coders in the world, although many can argue that, so I'm going to expect the best from them in terms of that. The dashboard for the original X-Box was a disgrace. They knew they could do better and they proved it wtih the 360's. Sony on the other hand is an electronics manufacturer how many Sony brand softwares do you own? None. They get their stuff third party.

So that only proves to me those that can squeeze anything out of the PS3 are obviously better coders and more dedicated to their job.

Plus just like the Lexus auto-park feature - things will get better/easier with time.

So I wonder what game this developer worked on? There are only like 12 games released on launch day. The next huge batch isn't till like March and its only like another odd or so games.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is, this guy has coded for both 360 and PS3 but my question is how long did he spend coding each?

I spent more time doing algebra in school over trig and find it "easier" but what does that prove? That algebra is better then trig? Haha, poor comparison but thought I'd throw it out there that this guy probably coded for the 360 for a year or more and the PS3 for maybe no more then half a year.

Also, love the sarcasm hehe.

dp102288
11-30-06, 11:57 AM
This game system debate is getting boring. Can't we all agree that all they systems suck and we should be spending our money on our Caddys? :duck: :p

Blackout
11-30-06, 01:49 PM
I'm not trying to bash anything here. I found this link on another forum and figured I'd post it up here since we have some video game fans here.

xxpinballxx
11-30-06, 05:54 PM
great post blackout...I liked the read....
Dp debating never gets boring....
railven I agree with the time frame of which he coded.
goth you are right we the gamers aren't really worried about how much time it takes long as the end result is a kick ass game...

railven
11-30-06, 08:00 PM
I debate with my friends all the time. I find that debating is a real good way to grasp a subject.

But I understand if the subject isn't your cup o'tea then it gets rather boring.

My Caddy has four wheels!

dp102288
11-30-06, 09:20 PM
^^ Just pushing all your buttons! Debate away (which I actually like to do if its interesting...)

Oh yeah, my Eldo has 5 wheels...I have a hidden one in the trunk! Beat that!

DopeStar 156
12-01-06, 01:42 AM
It's just brand loyalty. I'm a PS person, I like it because of all the features it has and I feel it's got an advantage over the 360. The 360 lacks any kind of tilt function and is still using IR for the wireless controller. PS3's use of Bluetooth outranks all the others, less chance of the controller failing in the middle of a boss fight. Also the PS3 will be the only console to have the games I'm really looking forward to. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots and Final Fantasy XIII. Plus it's the "goth" console. It's all black and scary in comparison to the other two. I also have a Wii sitting in in my parents closet and just picked up the incredibly hard to find Nunchuk attachment for the controller. The new Zelda looks pretty good.

The 360 I think made the mistake the Dreamcast made by coming out too early and therefore missing out on the new generation's trademark feature, tilt function controllers......

Blackout
12-01-06, 06:10 AM
It's just brand loyalty. I'm a PS person, I like it because of all the features it has and I feel it's got an advantage over the 360. The 360 lacks any kind of tilt function and is still using IR for the wireless controller. PS3's use of Bluetooth outranks all the others, less chance of the controller failing in the middle of a boss fight.lol....what!? I've never had a controller fail on me. The battery life is great and when it starts to get low I just plug it in and let it charge while I keep on playing. No offense but that was a pretty misinformed statement to say the least. And who cares about tilt function. After playing a couple games on the PS3 I found the tilt fnction to be more annoying then anything else. And what features does the PS3 have that the 360 doesn't have? A great online setup, ability to download TV shows and movies, download games (PS3 online games are like $20 I believe lol what a rip off), actually able to listen to your own music when playing a game, actually able to see when your friends are online at all times, when downloading something you can go off and play another game while your download is going on in the back ground while with the PS3 you have to look at the download bar waiting for your download to finish since you can't do anything else during that time. Yeah the PS3 owns the 360 because it has Bluetooth and Blu-Ray lmao!


Plus it's the "goth" console. It's all black and scary in comparison to the other two.The only thing scary about it is its size and how ugly it is


The 360 I think made the mistake the Dreamcast made by coming out too early and therefore missing out on the new generation's trademark feature, tilt function controllers......What new generation's trademark feature? The tilt controllers? What about the PS3 losing the dualshock feature and pressure sensitive buttons?

railven
12-01-06, 10:49 AM
[Note: To save anyone who doesn't really cares time this is just a little rant, ignoreable.]


I agree with Dopestar in this. Most of it is loyalist trying to prove their system over another.

I've seen it everywhere and many of you too. Pepsi vs Coke, PC vs MAC, Intel vs AMD, ATi vs nVidia, Cadillac vs Lexus/Audi/Infiniti etc etc.

There are a whole bunch of players in this game.
The hardcore fanboy, ala Blackout, who will defend their choice to the bitter end excluding any information that doesn't put their choice in the spotlight and retract any negatives from their mind of their choice.
The casual fanboy who just got what the hype was and believe it because they don't really care outside of just picking a side.
The Poser who's really job is just to piss off the Hardcore Fanboys but when push comes to shove they usually don't know jack about anything.
The Geek, sort of like me and Pinball, who have scoured as much information of both sides just to be able to choose a victor within their own findings, rarely do they go on rumors/opinions or hype.

Etc etc.

Which one are you?

I love games. It is my hobby and aspiration to someday become a game-script writer. Regardless, you need to factor in so many things when it comes down to gaming.

Sony has blown away the competition since its debut no one can argue that. Microsoft wants some of the cash flow from the billion dollar market, anyone find it odd that a software developing giant jumped into a console market...I do. Nintendo will always survive and I strongly believed they'd close the doors of their hardware HQ, ala Sega, ebfore they sell to either Sony or Microsoft. Sega knew it couldn't compete and decided not to bother but they still make profits.

I've own my 360 for less then a month and frankly I don't really see much in it, FOR ME. I don't do much online gaming and when I do trust me I prefer a mouse over a ackward left-thumbstick ANY day. I don't have a need for a social online network of friends since I don't game much online. I like to listen to music while I play my own games but thats just for racing car games and Madden I don't need it in games like Call of Duty because I'd want to be listening for footsteps and gunshots to track down my prey or hunter. I don't need to download HD content because I laready have a PC that can do that a larger HD and better multi-media configurations, but if I ever build an HTPC maybe I'd use the media extender feature on the 360 till then.

The 360 is a well package PC by the best PC coders in the world, still that is argueable hehe. In terms of the gaming collection it is so weak. I walked the 360 aisle for probably an hour with my girlfriend hounding me to pick one or just leave. I left empty handed. There is no desirable game on the 360 I'd want outside of GoW, got it, GPR, got it, and Perfect Dark, still haven't mustered the strength to buy it.

What do I have? DoA3/4...I'm not a fan of that series. CoD/Prey/FEAR already beat those on my PC before they were even released on the 360. Madden I'd wait for PS3 even though I heard they are literally the same version. Enchanted Arms looks nice and I just might get it but my stack of RPGs for the PS2 still needs more attention then another RPG to add to it.

What is there for the 360? Blackout you need to fill me in. Now the PS3 is going to try to compete with this I hope it doesn't lose sight of the games as Microsoft seems to have done. In the whole year that 360 has been out and it being one of the pros for the console, the gaming library, I fail to see it.

I'm not a Sony loyalist but their exclusive list has me preferring it over any console, Nintendo will aways have its Mario games.

I do hate that the PS3 controller lost the rumble feature but I predict it will return via third party. Sony can't be denied the use of a rumble feature only the extensive one they were sued for using. A standard feature is just one signal not variables. If my cell phone can rumble my damn PS3 controller can rumble.

If anyone wants to get technical PC-gaming is the best platform. There is nothing any console is currently doing that a PC hasn't done already and probably does it better.

Haha. There goes my rant, sorry guys.

And DP I got a hidden wheel too plus two fuzzy dies, PINK! Oh what now!? Bring it!

xxpinballxx
12-01-06, 11:03 AM
Geez.....theres a couple minutes of my life I'll never get back! Thanks railven....LOL!
Just kidding buddy....I feel the same way about PC gaming vs. the consoles...
PC's been there done that.
I actually just started building a gaming computer. stating out around my video card....

Blackout
12-01-06, 11:25 AM
The hardcore fanboy, ala Blackout, who will defend their choice to the bitter end excluding any information that doesn't put their choice in the spotlight and retract any negatives from their mind of their choice.Huh? Since I have bought my 360 everything Microsfot has said they were going to do they have done and quite well and for a good price. Everything that Sony said they were going to do they have done but very half assed. Sony keeps on saying how Blu-Ray is the future and yada yada but yet what they don't tell you is when you buy the system it doesn't come with a HDMI cable to get the most out of your system. They claimed backward capablility with all of their old games. Well that has proven to be very wrong and Microsoft has never shined in this field either but they never came out and said "Hey! Get the 360 because it's backwards compatable!" like Sony has done. Sony's online setup blows and if you even want to argue that that just goes to show how little you know. You can't play your own music on the PS3 while playing a game but yet the last X-Box had this option available (not for all games but for quite a few). Sony's friends list setup blows as well. Microsoft to me has given gamers the best gaming system out there now when it comes to game playing and graphics. Some would argue that thw Wii is the best but since I have yet to even see one in person I couldn't comment on this. But Sony is like ok! $600 for our gaming system. Well the only reason it costs that much is because of the Blu-Ray player. Microsoft says ok! $400 for ours and if you do want the HD video player then your going to shell out an extra $200 for it. They aren't forcing it down your throat like Sony is doing with the Blu-Ray player. Hell the most stupid thing that the PS3 can't do that the 360 can is just the simple fact of downloading stuff onto your PS3. Let's say Sony starts up their own online video download's like the 360 has done. Say you want the HD video and the file size is 6 GB. Well you start downloading and then you realize oh shit! I'm stuck watching the download bar for X amount of hours while this video downloads because I can't do anything else. Hell I downloaded 6 episodes of Jackass, 4 game demos, and The Matrix movie onto my X-Box and what did I do while all that was being downloaded? I played Rainbow 6: Las Vegas instead of watching the download bar.


What is there for the 360? Blackout you need to fill me in.It depends on what you like. So thats a kinda broad question. What I usually do is go online and download a bunch of game demo's and try them out to see which games I like and which one's I don't

railven
12-01-06, 11:27 AM
What you got going into it?

And I just learned how X-Box got its name. I didn't know it was a direct name from the API featurette it runs on. Original name was DirectXbox haha cut short to just X-Box. Wow, learn something new every day.

I'm an ATI fanboy but the new nVidias, the 88xx's are whooping my team's ass. I'd recommend you look into those first and with the supposed quad-GPU architecture...insane. Make sure you pick your video display first. It would suck if you got a SLI system capable of 2048x1152 but a display that can't handle that.

I want to win the lotto and build a new gaming rig. Pure High-Def with enough silocone to make Pamela Anderson jealous.

railven
12-01-06, 11:57 AM
Now to demonstrate what I do, and excelling in High School/College Debate I'm rather proud of it


Huh? Since I have bought my 360 everything Microsfot has said they were going to do they have done and quite well and for a good price.

Company promise is a good marketing tool for keeping satisfied customers. And yes Microsoft does have a good record of keeping their system on track. But so does Sony.

You need to understand how marketing and real world data works.

"My system can play DVD's." True, MS, but it isn't marketed as "but you need the DVD adapter and controller." Ouch.

Also if something is stated in a press release 9/10 it is implied as a feature. That doesn't mean the moment you get the product it is a given. Future revisions and upgrades are always toted as a selling point.

So does saying "I can watch DVDs" on my system a lie when it actually can't without the seperate adapter? No, its a half truth. Welcome to the world of corporate lies and what not. I'd recommend you get use to it.



Everything that Sony said they were going to do they have done but very half assed.

Again true regardless, and I don't argree with it, Sony has still delievered on all their "promises" whether they were as what you and I expected or what Sony intended isn't really for us to badger. That is why there is an open market of competition you don't like X-Product you move on to Y-Product.

Go a head and name one thing Sony promised that hasn't been true.


Sony keeps on saying how Blu-Ray is the future and yada yada but yet what they don't tell you is when you buy the system it doesn't come with a HDMI cable to get the most out of your system.

Do you know the future? I sure don't. Sony is promoting a product they are selling. The technology is future-dated as it isn't the standard right now. Sony wants it to be the future standard because it is their investment. So for them to state it as it being the "future" isn't a lie but more corporate marketing, again get use to it.

As for the lack of an HDMI cable oh stop whining. I've bought four DVD-Players for friends, various brands, with compoent outputs, digital coax/optical outputs and guess what they didn't bring the cables. All we got where dinky composites.

Hell I bought tons of toys where it said "batteries not included" even though the toy is useless without the batteries.


They claimed backward capablility with all of their old games. Well that has proven to be very wrong and Microsoft has never shined in this field either but they never came out and said "Hey! Get the 360 because it's backwards compatable!" like Sony has done.

Yeah Sony did mention the PS3 is backwards compatible as a feature. I don't remember them promising all games as a definite but remember so many online websites misquoting other sources and doing the old heard-it-from-the-grapevine shit and spreading false information. Did a Sony rep tell you directly that it would be 100% compatible with every prior game? No one told me but hey today I read on Kotaku how Circuit City wouldn't get any 20GB PS3's only 40GB PS3s. Wow, go figure.

And MS did use the backwards compatbility feature as a selling point. In fact if you see some of their latest ads, the one where it shows the game boxes building the 360, you'll see X-Box games in there flying around which if that is not a direct advertisement of backwards compatibility I don't know what is.


Sony's online setup blows and if you even want to argue that that just goes to show how little you know. You can't play your own music on the PS3 while playing a game but yet the last X-Box had this option available (not for all games but for quite a few). Sony's friends list setup blows as well.

Sorry friend I do know. I do know a lot of the limitations on the software side of the PS3. If you read any of my posts and keep them in mind, as I do many of yours and others, you'd realize I've stated that Sony gets most of their software third party while MS is internal.

Yeah you'd expect the leading software developer in the world to get their GUI in tact hell they been doing it for how many decades? The original X-Box dashboard was a freaking insult to Microsoft's coding division. The PS/2 are designed by freaking electronic manufacturers and their dashboard were as basic as your damn TV's menu. Did you gripe about that? Did you expect the PS2 to have a dashboard so intensive you can set it to record your favorite TV Show?

Sony just got into the software division with the PS3 so forgive me to ask that some cut them some slack because they haven't coded anything real. You should be impressed that they got what they got with such little know how. You don't even consider that do you? No you want to listen to your mp3's while you play your game fine thats easy for MS because they'd just take the code from their Media Player series. What is Sony going to do? Use the Walkman interface from their cell phones? They have to start from the ground up!

So trust me, I do know it seems more that you don't know and use faceless comparisons without even giving the background story any acknowledgement.



Microsoft to me has given gamers the best gaming system out there now when it comes to game playing and graphics. Some would argue that thw Wii is the best but since I have yet to even see one in person I couldn't comment on this.

Please mention CONSOLE gamers. Microsoft has not given gamers the best system they've done the work for lazy gamers, no offense to consolers I love you guys I started as one haha, so they just hook up two wires and a controller. A real gamer knows their hardware, their extensions, their limits, just like any enthusiast. I can do things on my PC, which predates the 360, the the 360 can only fathom. I can reach higher image quality, better contrast ratios, and even high AA/AF then the 360/PS3 will ever accomplish. Now as a gamer that is the best.

On my PC I can chat, voice chat, check my friends list, run my own mp3s, download while I game, freak even burn a CD/DVD and and record my favorite shows all while I game can your 360 do that? If so, tell me where you got it cuz that be awesome.


But Sony is like ok! $600 for our gaming system. Well the only reason it costs that much is because of the Blu-Ray player. Microsoft says ok! $400 for ours and if you do want the HD video player then your going to shell out an extra $200 for it. They aren't forcing it down your throat like Sony is doing with the Blu-Ray player.

This is where I get really irritated. Blu-Ray is Sony's invention. Of course they are going to try to force it on us any way possible. This is their product, their baby, and they want it to excel and dominate.

Them tossing it into a PS3 is by far the best marketing approach viable. You put it into a product that just not movie watchers will buy, market it, hype, whatever the hell, and get it in their hands. This increases the chances of the product surviving our capitalistic society. You are actually going to hold this against them?

Microsoft has no stakes in the HD vs Blu-Ray war. Their devices isn't integrated so they don't lose money if HD doesn't work. In fact if Blu-Ray is the victor since the HD isn't built in guess what you'll see Blu-Ray drives for the 360. Microsoft played it smart by not openly picking a side but showing support against their major opponent in hopes of their side wining. But if HD loses Microsoft won't shed a tear as they sell you a Blu-Ray add on.


Hell the most stupid thing that the PS3 can't do that the 360 can is just the simple fact of downloading stuff onto your PS3. Let's say Sony starts up their own online video download's like the 360 has done. Say you want the HD video and the file size is 6 GB. Well you start downloading and then you realize oh shit! I'm stuck watching the download bar for X amount of hours while this video downloads because I can't do anything else. Hell I downloaded 6 episodes of Jackass, 4 game demos, and The Matrix movie onto my X-Box and what did I do while all that was being downloaded? I played Rainbow 6: Las Vegas instead of watching the download bar.

RIGHT NOW! Does that mean tomorrow or in a few months Sony's coders won't get to that point? Hey maybe they are more concered with other things at the moment. I don't know I'm not Sony's coding division. Maybe as a gaming company they'll focus more on getting the backwards compatibility featured fixed first.

Did your 360 on launch day do all that junk you just listed? Hell no. Did you cry about it then when PC gamers were doing it? Hell no. You probably didn't even know that was possible.

Now MS did it and you think it is the shit and the competition is a bit behind and your gloating like you discovered some new feature that no one has ever known about it.

Please, software, the internet, nothing is built in one day. If Sony had all that on launch day I'd be willing to bet people will investiage how and when it shows that say Apple supported them and shared their coding people will bash on that too.

Get over it what isn't a feature, or possible today, isn't a big thing with open development and progress.

Everything happens with time and if takes someone a bit longer oh well they lose in the race. If Sony does this right and they get it on par with the 360 what are going to bitch about then?


It depends on what you like. So thats a kinda broad question. What I usually do is go online and download a bunch of game demo's and try them out to see which games I like and which one's I don't

It does depend on my preference as any purchase by any consumer. But share with me the games, not online games/demos because I've been doing that since I was 8, you can run out and buy at a store.

Thanks!

Blackout
12-01-06, 12:47 PM
^^^^
Long break? ;)

Blackout
12-01-06, 01:33 PM
"My system can play DVD's." True, MS, but it isn't marketed as "but you need the DVD adapter and controller." Ouch.

So does saying "I can watch DVDs" on my system a lie when it actually can't without the seperate adapter? No, its a half truth. Welcome to the world of corporate lies and what not. I'd recommend you get use to it.

This was the case for the original X-Box but not the 360.


Go a head and name one thing Sony promised that hasn't been true.I listed about 10 of them in my last post.



As for the lack of an HDMI cable oh stop whining.I just find it rediculous that your spending $600 for the game system plus another $60 for the Sony HDMI cables. So before taxes, buying another controller or even a single game your already at $660.


Yeah Sony did mention the PS3 is backwards compatible as a feature. I don't remember them promising all games as a definite but remember so many online websites misquoting other sources and doing the old heard-it-from-the-grapevine shit and spreading false information. Did a Sony rep tell you directly that it would be 100% compatible with every prior game? All they announced was that Sony confirmed that the machine will be backward compatible all the way to the original PlayStation.


And MS did use the backwards compatbility feature as a selling point. In fact if you see some of their latest ads, the one where it shows the game boxes building the 360, you'll see X-Box games in there flying around which if that is not a direct advertisement of backwards compatibility I don't know what is.As far as I remember they used all 360 games and then at the end of the commercial they said something like 100 games and growing or something along those lines. Maybe you saw a game for the original X-Box and they also made the game for the 360 that you didn't know about and thought it was a original X-Box game. I dunno.


Sorry friend I do know. I do know a lot of the limitations on the software side of the PS3. If you read any of my posts and keep them in mind, as I do many of yours and others, you'd realize I've stated that Sony gets most of their software third party while MS is internal.

Yeah you'd expect the leading software developer in the world to get their GUI in tact hell they been doing it for how many decades? The original X-Box dashboard was a freaking insult to Microsoft's coding division. The PS/2 are designed by freaking electronic manufacturers and their dashboard were as basic as your damn TV's menu. Did you gripe about that? Did you expect the PS2 to have a dashboard so intensive you can set it to record your favorite TV Show?

Sony just got into the software division with the PS3 so forgive me to ask that some cut them some slack because they haven't coded anything real. You should be impressed that they got what they got with such little know how. You don't even consider that do you? No you want to listen to your mp3's while you play your game fine thats easy for MS because they'd just take the code from their Media Player series. What is Sony going to do? Use the Walkman interface from their cell phones? They have to start from the ground up!

So trust me, I do know it seems more that you don't know and use faceless comparisons without even giving the background story any acknowledgement.So Sony has the capability to make this totally new Blu-Ray format and can make Plasma screen TV's with 1080p but they can't make a dashboard for their biggest selling product?



Please mention CONSOLE gamers. Microsoft has not given gamers the best system they've done the work for lazy gamers, no offense to consolers I love you guys I started as one haha, so they just hook up two wires and a controller. A real gamer knows their hardware, their extensions, their limits, just like any enthusiast. I can do things on my PC, which predates the 360, the the 360 can only fathom. I can reach higher image quality, better contrast ratios, and even high AA/AF then the 360/PS3 will ever accomplish. Now as a gamer that is the best.Sorry I didn't make it 100% clear that I was talking about consoles. I know how tricky it can be to confuse PC's in a thread when were talking about consoles. :rolleyes:


On my PC I can chat, voice chat, check my friends list, run my own mp3s, download while I game, freak even burn a CD/DVD and and record my favorite shows all while I game can your 360 do that? If so, tell me where you got it cuz that be awesome.The 360 can do all that minus burning a CD/DVD. You can text chat, voice chat with the headset (BTW does the PS3 even offer voice chat?), check my friends list and tell what they are playing or if they are watching a movie or if they put an away message up, I can listen to my own music that I downloaded on or hook my 360 up to my computer and listen to music or view pictures or even watch movies I have downloaded onto my computer, I can download stuff while I play, and I can download my favorite TV show's as well as movie's while playing as well. So literally at any given time on my 360 I can be downloading a movie, voice chatting with my friend while I'm playing GOW and he is playing PGR3, while listening to my own music. Give the 360 SOME credit geez


This is where I get really irritated. Blu-Ray is Sony's invention. Of course they are going to try to force it on us any way possible. This is their product, their baby, and they want it to excel and dominate.

Them tossing it into a PS3 is by far the best marketing approach viable. You put it into a product that just not movie watchers will buy, market it, hype, whatever the hell, and get it in their hands. This increases the chances of the product surviving our capitalistic society. You are actually going to hold this against them?To the average joe (which is about 80% of the country. I just threw that number out there so don't bother wasting your time trying to prove me wrong) they wouldn't buy a $600 machine to play a movie because it's the newest thing. People like having DVD player's for $40. People like having DVD's for $19.99. So in order to get this "new" Blu-Ray player and to get the very most out of it your going to have to buy a brand new HDTB that's capable of putting out 1080p resolution, buying $35 movies, and buying the cheapest blu-ray player which is $600. So your looking at atleast a couple grand for what? A slightly better picture and sound? That will be the reason for blu-ray failing because nobody will want to spend that much money for watching movies. All the HD content for cable and satillite TV is maxing out at 1080i so the only reasoning for someone wanting a 1080p TV is for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD purposes which isn't a whole hell of a lot of people.


Microsoft has no stakes in the HD vs Blu-Ray war. Their devices isn't integrated so they don't lose money if HD doesn't work. In fact if Blu-Ray is the victor since the HD isn't built in guess what you'll see Blu-Ray drives for the 360. Microsoft played it smart by not openly picking a side but showing support against their major opponent in hopes of their side wining. But if HD loses Microsoft won't shed a tear as they sell you a Blu-Ray add on.And here I thought Windows Vista would be HD-DVD compatible. Silly me


Did your 360 on launch day do all that junk you just listed? Hell no. Did you cry about it then when PC gamers were doing it? Hell no. You probably didn't even know that was possible.The only new thing MS has added to the 360 since launch is 1080p and TV and movie downloads. Everything else has been there since launch.


Now MS did it and you think it is the shit and the competition is a bit behind and your gloating like you discovered some new feature that no one has ever known about it.

Please, software, the internet, nothing is built in one day. If Sony had all that on launch day I'd be willing to bet people will investiage how and when it shows that say Apple supported them and shared their coding people will bash on that too.

Get over it what isn't a feature, or possible today, isn't a big thing with open development and progress.

Everything happens with time and if takes someone a bit longer oh well they lose in the race. If Sony does this right and they get it on par with the 360 what are going to bitch about then?Sony has been the leader in the video game industry and now basically everything their doing is to keep up with the Wii and the 360.

Wii = Motion sensor controllers

360 = Movie and TV show downloads

Hell Sony basically ripped off the 360's online setup! Oh I'm paying $600 for a Wii360 wanna be!



It does depend on my preference as any purchase by any consumer. But share with me the games, not online games/demos because I've been doing that since I was 8, you can run out and buy at a store.Like I said your question is broad. The 360 has over 100 games in it's library. You want me to list every single on of them? If you give me what kinda games you prefer I can give my suggestions but your question still doesn't make sense

BTW have you been hearing about this? http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/746/746463p1.html
Hell the 360 lets you select what output your TV has while the PS3 does what it wants

gothicaleigh
12-01-06, 03:57 PM
So in order to get this "new" Blu-Ray player and to get the very most out of it your going to have to buy a brand new HDTB that's capable of putting out 1080p resolution, buying $35 movies, and buying the cheapest blu-ray player which is $600. So your looking at atleast a couple grand for what? A slightly better picture and sound? That will be the reason for blu-ray failing because nobody will want to spend that much money for watching movies.

Welcome to the bleeding edge of electronics.

I paid $700 for my first DVD player and DVDs weren't always $20 (most special editions in widescreen are even now $25 or more).
Hell, I used to fork out $50 for laserdiscs.

The price will come down as the installed base grows. High initial costs are nothing new. You are using the same argument that those who resisted DVDs used. Now it's the standard.

Cadillacboy
12-01-06, 04:10 PM
One good point of the debates running here...Which consol to have in our Caddys ? In other words, what's the best consol for our cars ? lol

gothicaleigh
12-01-06, 04:19 PM
One good point of the debates running here...Which consol to have in our Caddys ? In other words, what's the best consol for our cars ? lol

Sony PSP.


I don't have the guts to hack up my headrests and visors for screens. :p

railven
12-01-06, 05:31 PM
This was the case for the original X-Box but not the 360.

Okay, but 360 is still totted as next-gen and it doesn't even offer current future technologies. It runs off hardware that has been around for almost a decade.

The lack of Bluetooth/Wifi, one feature of which two handhelds [DS/PSP] offer, is note worthy when it is missing of a next-gen system. Shucks its hard to find a cell phone that doesn't offer Bluetooth nowadays.


I listed about 10 of them in my last post.

Actually you didn't you just listed things Sony promised to deliver that they actually delivered just not to your liking/standard. So try again, please.


I just find it rediculous that your spending $600 for the game system plus another $60 for the Sony HDMI cables. So before taxes, buying another controller or even a single game your already at $660.

Trust me $660 is CHEAP for anything future technology. And if that is your strongest arguement I know you haven't invested in gaming beyond the consoles.

Come to think of it I probably spend in excess of $500 dollars a month just in videogames. [Well before I bought my condo now its freaking mortgage this and mortgage that.]


All they announced was that Sony confirmed that the machine will be backward compatible all the way to the original PlayStation.

I can't vouch for PS1 games since I haven't read up on it but technically if the system can run at least one, yeah just one, PS1 game then it stands true - PS3 is backwards compatible as far back as PS1.


As far as I remember they used all 360 games and then at the end of the commercial they said something like 100 games and growing or something along those lines. Maybe you saw a game for the original X-Box and they also made the game for the 360 that you didn't know about and thought it was a original X-Box game. I dunno.

Haha I actually didn't think of the games that were ported to the 360 from the original X-Box. I'll try to give that commercial another run through and see if there are any games from the original on it. But if what you said is true you supported my arguement anyways.


So Sony has the capability to make this totally new Blu-Ray format and can make Plasma screen TV's with 1080p but they can't make a dashboard for their biggest selling product?

Hardware vs Software is completely different. The HDMI is mostly an eletronical signal that needs to be decoded by a CPU. There is little to no software there. Blu-Ray is a multi-use media that only requires a laser to burn image onto it not software there but you will need software to start the process but how many Sony CD/DVD-R/RW drives have you seen versus how many Sony burning applications? Like 100 to 0. A third party will step in and take care of that process.

There is a dashboard on the PS3 it just isn't as refined as the one on the 360 and I was just explaining to you why.



Sorry I didn't make it 100% clear that I was talking about consoles. I know how tricky it can be to confuse PC's in a thread when were talking about consoles. :rolleyes:

All is good but if your going to make a statement as "MS gave gamers the best system" you'd better be prepared for my backlash. Hehe.


The 360 can do all that minus burning a CD/DVD. You can text chat, voice chat with the headset (BTW does the PS3 even offer voice chat?), check my friends list and tell what they are playing or if they are watching a movie or if they put an away message up, I can listen to my own music that I downloaded on or hook my 360 up to my computer and listen to music or view pictures or even watch movies I have downloaded onto my computer, I can download stuff while I play, and I can download my favorite TV show's as well as movie's while playing as well. So literally at any given time on my 360 I can be downloading a movie, voice chatting with my friend while I'm playing GOW and he is playing PGR3, while listening to my own music. Give the 360 SOME credit geez

Haha give the 360 credit for taking software ideas that have been available for over ten years and packaging them into a console? Give them credit for what? Being the first to make such a package? I'll give them credit for such a feat when you start giving Sony credit for its feats.

Respect is a two way street, we all know that.


To the average joe (which is about 80% of the country. I just threw that number out there so don't bother wasting your time trying to prove me wrong) they wouldn't buy a $600 machine to play a movie because it's the newest thing. People like having DVD player's for $40. People like having DVD's for $19.99. So in order to get this "new" Blu-Ray player and to get the very most out of it your going to have to buy a brand new HDTB that's capable of putting out 1080p resolution, buying $35 movies, and buying the cheapest blu-ray player which is $600. So your looking at atleast a couple grand for what? A slightly better picture and sound? That will be the reason for blu-ray failing because nobody will want to spend that much money for watching movies. All the HD content for cable and satillite TV is maxing out at 1080i so the only reasoning for someone wanting a 1080p TV is for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD purposes which isn't a whole hell of a lot of people.

You still fail to understand something - PS3/360/ANYTHING HIGH-DEF isn't for the average joe. It's like saying "The Cadillac STS-V isn't going to sell because the average joe can't afford it." This products are designed for spoiled brats, rich folks, people with a fetish for new gadgets [that means your Pinball], those interested in new technology, etc not the average joe.

Would "average joe" walk into a store and choose a $400 360 over a $130 PS2-slim or a $100 GC? NO!

You don't make new toys and gadgets for the average anything. New toys cost money and the average consumer isn't about dishing out money on experimental technology. They will wait for it to become standard.

But how do things become standard? You think a company will invest money and time into a product that doesn't sell for the posibility of reducing production costs to sell it for less and then get the average joe's interest? Man you need to read a little Wall Street you'd fail instantly as a marketing executive.

Most all new technologies are already sold for a loss. Companies don't expect to make huge profits over something they. You think the PS3 cost less then $600 dollars to make? You think the 360 does? The only company making money per unit is Nintendo because as they admitted it is literally old GC parts in the Wii.


And here I thought Windows Vista would be HD-DVD compatible. Silly me

HAHA. They sell Blu-Ray drives you think MS won't let you install it in your brand new Windows Vista PC? They can't! There are laws against monopolization. Damn amigo you seriously need to read some more. Of course Vista will be HD-DVD compatible as it will be Blu-Ray compatible. MS has nothing to lose. But it won't openly show support for its opponent's product, in this case Sony's Blu-Ray.

Do you go to a high school football game and root the other school's team? NO!


The only new thing MS has added to the 360 since launch is 1080p and TV and movie downloads. Everything else has been there since launch.

Not owning a 360 I can't vouch 100% for that but it did include minor revisions in the patches and expanded its backwards compatibility list. It also refined the dashboard, added in new API featurettes, because yes even Direct-X gets patched.

So before you say something so ignorant try reading those release notes you get every time you patch.


Sony has been the leader in the video game industry and now basically everything their doing is to keep up with the Wii and the 360.

Haha you serious? What makes who copying who? What came first the chicken or the egg? Microsoft copied Sony originaly by developing a gaming console. Microsoft's fear of the gaming market cutting into the computer market caused them to create their flagship machine. A machine that wouldn't have been successful if it didn't buy out smaller gaming companies because its own internal divisions couldn't code a decent game and their third party list was tiny.

Yeah you are right Sony is copying MS.

If anything both companies copied Nintendo/Sega. Let me see:
First to sport rumble feature? Nintendo. Memory cards? Actually I'd have to look at the release date but I want to say Nintendo, could be wrong. First to use montion sensing anything Nintendo. Multiplayer support, hey Nintendo again. An online feature Dreamcast. Downloadable content, damn Dreamcast again.

Wait what did MS do that is original? Wireless controllers? Nope that was third party for a long time, even on Sega/NES. What is it Blackout? Optical disc format nope that was JVC.

Wow so far no one is original.


Wii = Motion sensor controllers

360 = Movie and TV show downloads

Hell Sony basically ripped off the 360's online setup! Oh I'm paying $600 for a Wii360 wanna be!

Haha I won't even bother I said enough to cover that.



Like I said your question is broad. The 360 has over 100 games in it's library. You want me to list every single on of them? If you give me what kinda games you prefer I can give my suggestions but your question still doesn't make sense

I strongly prefer RPGs, multiplayer games [non-online] that aren't FPS for a group of friends [examples are Mario Sport games], race car games [non-NFS I've grown to hate that franchise], and puzzle games.


BTW have you been hearing about this? http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/746/746463p1.html
Hell the 360 lets you select what output your TV has while the PS3 does what it wants

That isn't the first site to mention it and yeah this is a software issue. You need proper driver support to select multiple output features. Another "amazing" feat by MS? Ha, yeah sure if you say so.


PS3 isn't perfect and at launch it is carrying a good punch. It will take time to refine it but to call it a failure so prematurely is a clear evident move of a fanboy.

There is no reasoning with you so maybe I should stop. As Goth said early "360 wins."

[Hehe so much for my 15 minute break that took 16 minutes to type.]

dp102288
12-01-06, 09:58 PM
Damn you people write a lot

:nothing2add: