: Oil filter



dpsours
03-04-04, 12:04 PM
I have owned a '96 and two '98 DeVilles. When I had the '96, I was told by the dealer that it needed a special oil filter that had a check valve in it. This supposedly would allow the system to be filled completely. If I took it to a quickie oil change palce, their filters would not have that check valve and I would not have enough oil in my system.

My questions are:
1. Do I understand this correctly?
2. Is it still true for the '98?
3. If so, does Valvoline Instant Oil Change offer the correct filter?

Thanks!

Dave

growe3
03-04-04, 04:33 PM
Any of the well known major brand oil fliters are fine. Just make sure it is the correct number for your car.

My personal preference is FRAM (been using them for years no problems).

-George

El Dobro
03-04-04, 09:05 PM
If you the AC filter specified for your car (PF-61) then there's no question at all. Personally, the only filter I use on my Caddys.

Pedro
03-04-04, 10:24 PM
Given that the OEM filter, Delco PF61, can be purchased as economically as most others, why would you use anything else. The purpose of the valve is to keep all the oil from draining into the sump and prevent lack of lubrication on startup. I don't believe the Fram standard filters have the valve feature. I use to use Fram many years ago until I read some reports which basically said they were crap.

Stick with OEM.

growe3
03-04-04, 11:40 PM
Given that the OEM filter, Delco PF61, can be purchased as economically as most others, why would you use anything else. The purpose of the valve is to keep all the oil from draining into the sump and prevent lack of lubrication on startup. I don't believe the Fram standard filters have the valve feature. I use to use Fram many years ago until I read some reports which basically said they were crap.



Stick with OEM.



Fram is "crap"? get your facts straight before making such nonsense claims.



I have been using Fram almost exclusively on all of my cars; I will note a few:

1955 Chrysler 300 - 331 Hemi (still own)

1955 Chrysler Crown Imperial Limousine - 331 Hemi (still own)

1964 Plymouth Sport Fury - 426 Wedge (owned 8 yrs)

1965 Pontiac 2+2 - 421 (owned 10 yrs)

1983 Mitsubishi ((sorry) owned 8 yrs)

1975 Chevrolet Truck C20 - 454 (owned 20 yrs, still have)

1993 Cadillac STS - 4.6 (owned 4 yrs, still have)

1992 Bayliner Cierra Sunbridge 26’ – 305 w/Paxton supercharger (12 yrs, still own)



There is some overlap on ownership of the cars, all are high mileage, none has ever had an oil filter related problem. Fram is an excellent filter.



That said, AC Delco is also a good filter as are a number of others. I just prefer Fram, based on a solid personal history of great high performance cars, that I don't baby, and that definitely put a strain on an oil system.

-George

STS
03-04-04, 11:59 PM
an oil filter is an oil filter.

dpsours
03-05-04, 09:21 AM
OK, so there IS a check valve and it is important. Given that the quickie oil change places generally use their own brand of filter, the chances of my getting a good filter with check valve at such an establishment are slim. Is that a safe assumption?


Dave

The_Raven
03-05-04, 11:23 AM
Howyadoin,

Don't forget that at the quickie oil change places, there's no guarantee you'll even GET a fresh oil filter! Hell, the new and old ones look the same once you wipe down the old one, who's to know at a glance? My policy with my wife's Rodeo is to alternate between two different places that install different filters, that way I can visually see that there's a different filter on it when I leave.

growe3
03-05-04, 11:25 AM
OK, so there IS a check valve and it is important. Given that the "quickie" oil change places generally use their own brand of filter, the chances of my getting a good filter with check valve at such an establishment are slim. Is that a safe assumption?

Dave

Hi Dave,

I am not an oil filter expert, but I do have many years of driving high performance cars, doing my own maintenance and engine rebuilding. Regarding a check valve, some filters do not have them. The oil filters for my old Chryslers for example; the check valve is built into the block oil line, and not necessary in the filter itself. I am sure there are other cars that have a similar setup and therefore do not need one in the filter.

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Specialty/pdf/Air&OilFilters.PDF (http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Specialty/pdf/Air&OilFilters.PDF)

I think as long as you can get a name brand oil filter installed they are all pretty good. Some “quickie” oil change places may well be using a major brand "repackaged" or with different paint on them. The Penn’s Oil and lube places in California use excellent oil and their filters are very good.

If you do not want to or cannot change your own oil, they are a good choice. I am sure others will have their local favorite choices.

Just be sure to tell them to not overfill a Northstar engine ( 7 1/2 qts. total). Check it yourself after the change. The dipstick should show oil about half way into the indexed area when the engine has been warmed up. No rocket science stuff here; you do not need to wait any long period, for engine oil to drain back. By the time you shut off the engine, pop the hood, pull and wipe the dipstick, then take a reading, it will be fine.

I always change my own oil, a nuisance but then I know the job is done right, and I can use the oil and filter of my choice.

-George

BeelzeBob
03-05-04, 01:35 PM
I have owned a '96 and two '98 DeVilles. When I had the '96, I was told by the dealer that it needed a special oil filter that had a check valve in it. This supposedly would allow the system to be filled completely. If I took it to a quickie oil change palce, their filters would not have that check valve and I would not have enough oil in my system.

My questions are:
1. Do I understand this correctly?
2. Is it still true for the '98?
3. If so, does Valvoline Instant Oil Change offer the correct filter?

Thanks!

Dave

I think you will be fine with most of the major brands of oil filters. There is no requirement for an anti-drain back valve in the Northstar oil filter. I suspect this is a scare tactic by the service guy to get you to have your service done there.....

If you look at the NOrthstar engine, the oil pump is well above the oil level in the sump (it is on the centerline of the crankshaft at the front of the engine) so the system "primes" each time the engine is started. There is no way a check valve of sorts is going to stop the oil from draing down and out of the pump. It just doesn't work that way.....LOL.

The lube system was carefully designed and developed on the Northstar and it has performed very well over the years with few, if any, problems. Just get the oil changed and a decent filter put on and forget about it.....

The engine was designed/developed/validated with the AC filter so you KNOW that it works. Other filters may work fine but the only filter specifically designed and tested with the engine was the AC.....

dpsours
03-05-04, 02:16 PM
Thank you all!

I'll probably go to Valvoline Instant Oil Change, then. They offer the Valvoline MaxLife oil, which I am hoping will slow or stop my leaky oil pan gasket. Not about to pay a small fortune to get it fixed. When the weather gets nicer, I'll go through the steps outlined in another post to verify that it is indeed the oil pan gasket.

Thanks again,

Dave

Pedro
03-10-04, 11:35 PM
Fram is "crap"? get your facts straight before making such nonsense claims.


Fram is an excellent filter.

That said, AC Delco is also a good filter as are a number of others. I just prefer Fram, based on a solid personal history of great high performance cars, that I don't baby, and that definitely put a strain on an oil system.

-George
Guess I struck a nerve George.

Not that I believe everything I read on-line, but here are a few facts for you.

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

I first heard about this a few years ago. The above link obtained with a google search for "fram oil filter study"; I didn't look at the rest of the links but you may be interested.

My first personal experience with valve train noise on startup was using a Purolator filter on a 95 Nissan Maxima. With around 15K on the engine, I started it and it sound louder than my diesel truck. Turned it off, had it towed to the dealer who changed the oil and filter and said that the noise was due to the lack of the anti-siphon valve in the aftermarket filter I was using.

I used to think Fram was a good filter too.

Regards,

Pedro

joeveto
03-11-04, 04:29 PM
First off, before you read this, take a DEEP Breath and RELAX.

As I understand it, the Frams of today are not the Frams of yesterday. It used to be, you could buy the orange filter, and it would fight the good fight for engine longevity. I sang the praises of Fram for years, to family, friends, and any fellow country man or woman who asked my opinion about the little cannister that filtered their engine oil.

But from studies I've seen, base Frams are now crap.

As for the anti drainback valve: In some engines, there is a need for them. Some Ford's for instance, will rattle like crazy the first few moments they are started, if they are given an oil filter that does not have this valve. I'm thinking of my old Contour SVT. The oil in these engines will drain from the filter into the pan and leave you with a momentarily empty filter. Still, I doubt it's that big of a deal. I don't think it's a deal breaker or an engine breaker, for that matter.

Any Fram filter above the base is equipped with the anti-drainback valve. But I would exercise some caution, as some of the highest level Frams are also equipped with a dose of PTFE. And Teflon can do miserable things to engines. The mid-level Frams have PTFE on the gasket alone, supposedly to seal the filter better.:hmm: This kind of marketing, in my mind, is playing to the weak minded and harms the overall integrity of the product and the company trying to sell it. Why play games? Why not just offer an excellent filter?

I don't see Hastings playing these games. And that's why I pay the extra dough for them. I also like AC Delco, a lot.

At any rate, a clean Fram is better than a spent _________ any day. So I wouldn't be too concerned, either way.

Just my $.02. So keep the flames at a minimum.

00 Deville
03-11-04, 10:07 PM
The filter that is called out in your owners manual for you 98' Northstar equipped Deville is the AC Delco PF-58 it was equipped with an anti-siphon or drainback valve. This filter has been discontinued. The replacement AC Delco for your car and all of the other Northstar equipped cars is the PF-61. It does not have the anti-siphon or drainback valve. I would not worry too much about the drainback valve.

As far as what filter to use I would stick with the AC Delco PF-61 it is the filter that has gone thru validation testing on the Northstar engine by GM. If you go with an aftermarket filter....Remember.... If the filters media is "finer"...i.e...lower micron filtration....then you would think it is better.....But...the finer filtration causes a greater pressure drop across the filter which causes more unfiltered oil to bypass the filter. So you could go to a higher filtration but send more "dirty" oil back to the engine thru the oil filter bypass valve. It is all a balancing act of pressure drop vs filtration level. I personally would be more concerned about the pressuse drop due to the fact that 90% of all the material to be trapped by the oil filter over the life of the engine is trapped by the first filter during initial engine brake-in.

I will have to agree about the FRAM filters are not as good as they use to be.