: Transmission Valve (or what the dealer told me)



Roswell256
03-04-04, 10:09 AM
Ok I have a 94 DeVille Concours and I was getting the error code P039. which when looked up says its a Torque Converter Clutch Engagement Problem. Ok so I ask the dealer about it. He says that its a problem with a valve on teh transmission. I ask how much. He said the part is just over $100 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif but the labor involved on some of those transmissions would push the total over $700-$800 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/html/emoticons/sad.gif . Ouch!! it only acts up once in a great while. One of the apparent symptoms of that valve would be a hard shift between 3-4. but I'm seeing it between 1-2 and only intermitantly (sp?). According to him he's seen people drive them like that for years with no more problems so I should just leave it, but if it starts doing it all the time to have it done or risk the transmission. Has anyone ever had this problem or anything similar. Also does the advice of just leaving it sound like sound advice or should I get it done anyway.

Thanks for he help
-Roswell-

dloch
03-04-04, 12:35 PM
Are you seeing or feeling any problems? Like the converter not locking or unlocking?

You would notice it not unlocking when you come to a stop, the car will try to stall. My daughters have a car where the converter wasn't unlocking all the time, I just cut the wire that would activate the lockup circuit, been running like that for 2 years of more with no adverse effects other that it uses a little more fuel on the freeway.

Roswell256
03-04-04, 03:23 PM
The car doesn't try and stall when it comes to a stop but .... it does feel like its about ready to jump from the line. If you don't have the brake held down sometimes it feels like it will take off on its own. Its idleing normal and all but it just feels like someting down there isn't dissengaged and still trying to pull the tires. Is that also part of the Clutch problem?

Thanks

-Roswell-

dloch
03-04-04, 03:45 PM
Yes, the converter may not be unlocking completely. Is this worse after you have driven over 40-50 MPH?

Roswell256
03-04-04, 03:52 PM
I'll have to go put some miles on her and find out. But yes I think it does get worse after a bunch of miles. That could be why it has all but dissappeared, I've been putting around base at nomore then 40mph for only a few minutes.

-Roswell-

growe3
03-04-04, 04:28 PM
Are you seeing or feeling any problems? Like the converter not locking or unlocking?



You would notice it not unlocking when you come to a stop, the car will try to stall. My daughters have a car where the converter wasn't unlocking all the time, I just cut the wire that would activate the lockup circuit, been running like that for 2 years of more with no adverse effects other that it uses a little more fuel on the freeway.



I don't know what type of car your daughter had, but cutting wires on these Cadillacs, which are so intertwined electrically, is just looking to cause more problems.



It may be possible to temporally override the lockup function through the DIC, but I would get it fixed soon before you cause more damage.



I would also urge you to spend some time looking around for loose wires and/or dirty connections; it may just cure it for free.



George

dloch
03-04-04, 06:30 PM
I don't know what type of car your daughter had, but cutting wires on these Cadillacs, which are so intertwined electrically, is just looking to cause more problems.



It may be possible to temporally override the lockup function through the DIC, but I would get it fixed soon before you cause more damage.



I would also urge you to spend some time looking around for loose wires and/or dirty connections; it may just cure it for free.



George
I wasn't suggesting that he cut any wires. If that was what I seemed to be implying, that was not where I was going with that statement. These cars are so wired you can't do anything without the PCM knowing it.

I did that on my daughters 92 Grand Am myself so I wouldn't have to pull the trans to fix a hanging converter apply solenoid, if it doesn't apply I don't have to worry about it releasing. When it hung it hung applied, that was like stopping a stick shift car without pushing on the clutch. When the engine stalled you put it in neutral or park and restart the car, when you put back into drive again and the convertor was still locked it was like jamming a stick shift car in gear with the clutch out.


Roswell256,

If your speed is over 40 - 45 MPH and pretty constant the converter will go into apply or lock-up. If you apply the brake pedal it should release, you can see this on a tach, if you have one. Or it releases if your speed drops below some threshold value.

If you start and drive your car and you keep your speed below 40 - 45 MPH and your starting and stopping the converter will not go into apply or lockup in which case it doesn't have to unlock or release. If everything seems fine go on the freeway or someplace where you can get up past 40 - 45 and remain constant so the trans can go into lockup. Then stop and see if you see the same symtoms.

If you are, as an experiment stop someplace and shut the car off for a few minutes and then restart and drive but keep the speed below 40 - 45 and do some stops to see if continues to do it or not.

I believe you can see where I'm going with all this.

Dennis

Roswell256
03-05-04, 12:48 AM
Ok I ran it up on the freeway today. WOT'd it in 2nd on my way onto the exit ramp. ran it at 70 for a bit and hopped off to go to Denny's. When I got off it seemed to be running fine. also on the way back it ran fine also. It didn't through any codes. i'm wondering its just a PROM thing and not the accuall VAlve. What do I try next to determine for sure if its one or the other?

Thanks for your help so far
-Roswell-

growe3
03-05-04, 11:39 AM
Maybe just giving it a kick up the on-ramp will help keep it working right. I do not recommend abusing your car, but they do need some exercise.

Some people are also afraid to use the transmission to slow the car, or downshift for better control in traffic. I will normally drop it into third when decelerating from the freeway and keep it in third or even second in heavy commute traffic.

Try doing this and it might help, by manually working the valve body on occasion.

-George

dloch
03-05-04, 12:44 PM
Ok I ran it up on the freeway today. WOT'd it in 2nd on my way onto the exit ramp. ran it at 70 for a bit and hopped off to go to Denny's. When I got off it seemed to be running fine. also on the way back it ran fine also. It didn't through any codes. i'm wondering its just a PROM thing and not the accuall VAlve. What do I try next to determine for sure if its one or the other?

Thanks for your help so far
-Roswell-

Maybe just giving it a kick up the on-ramp will help keep it working right.
Maybe.... Just keep watching or feeling in this case, to see if it acts up again.

This is a 94.... I don't know when Cadillac started getting the transmissions with the PWM lockup solenoids. I know my 94 Impala didn't but the 95's did.

What trans is in there, do you know?

I was looking in my service manual and it said that the converter in my 97 sts won't go into lock-up until 4th gear at a road above 42 MPH with light throttle. You might try running in 3rd or D not OD once to see if that's the case with your car. My Impala with oringinal programming would lock-up in 3rd gear at light throttle, still does except I moved some of the parameters around a little.

Dennis

STS
03-05-04, 10:04 PM
transmission parts are hardly ever expensive, unless it's a "hard" part. labor will always get ya.

wrencher24
03-06-04, 04:25 AM
Ok I have a 94 DeVille Concours and I was getting the error code P039. which when looked up says its a Torque Converter Clutch Engagement Problem. Ok so I ask the dealer about it. He says that its a problem with a valve on teh transmission. I ask how much. He said the part is just over $100 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif but the labor involved on some of those transmissions would push the total over $700-$800 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/html/emoticons/sad.gif . Ouch!! it only acts up once in a great while. One of the apparent symptoms of that valve would be a hard shift between 3-4. but I'm seeing it between 1-2 and only intermitantly (sp?). According to him he's seen people drive them like that for years with no more problems so I should just leave it, but if it starts doing it all the time to have it done or risk the transmission. Has anyone ever had this problem or anything similar. Also does the advice of just leaving it sound like sound advice or should I get it done anyway.

Thanks for he help
-Roswell-
Have you noticed your problem more when your car is cold, and maybe under a little more than slight load? If so, refer to GM service bulliten #87-65-17, released June of 98. This addresses an intermittant P039 with a PCM calibration change. For 1994 Prom PN would be 16266762. The reason for your harsh shift is when the PCM sees a potential transmission problem, it raises line pressure in the transmission to avoid potential clutch slippage. After you restart the car, and the PCM doesn't see the potential failure, the line pressure is normal, thus no harsh shifts until it sees the failure again.

Hope this helps

Wrencher24

dloch
03-08-04, 11:39 AM
transmission parts are hardly ever expensive, unless it's a "hard" part. labor will always get ya.
This part is not that expensive...... getting to it is though. On FWD it's in the side case which means you need to drop the powertrain cradle to get at it.