: coolant leak 00 sts



caterium
11-12-06, 12:51 PM
Hi everybody,I'm new on this forum and it's a great place!!

OK the problem is a small coolant leak on the caddy of my father.It's a sts 2000 with only 17 000 miles.The leak seem come from the housing where the rubber hose plug in.I think it's the thermostat housing but i'm not sure.this "housing" is hold by 4 bolts 10 mm. we see littles drop of dex cool on the two "under" bolts when we start the cold engine,but it seems to stop when the engine warm.Yesterday me and my father torking these 4 "10 mm" bolts a little more ,with the hope that stopping the leak.I don't know yet if it is ok because I did'nt saw my father this morning.

Questions: is there a gasket in this area?

Do you think it can be the water pump?

Thank you very much guys!!!:thumbsup:

nigelb
11-12-06, 01:29 PM
from what you are describing it sounds like the leak is coming from the water pump cover. there is a gasket under the cover, part# 12573948, now apparently superceeded by part# 12600020
you can download a free 98-04 parts list from the cadillac tech tips section, it is very informative with exploded views and part numbers.


do you now if the coolant has ever been changed?
sounds stupid considering the motor only has 17k on the clock but its about due for its second change.
the reason why i'm asking is because at every coolant change you have to use a leak stopper as standard.
while there is no substitute for a good mechanical seal the leak stopper (Bars Leaks make it for GM) will help prevent annoying little weeps and seeps.

Ranger
11-12-06, 04:47 PM
:welcome:
I agree with Nigel. Sounds like the cover gasket. Costs about $10 from the dealer. Pump should be fine. When you change the coolant, DO NOT put the sealant tabs in the surge tank. They must be put in the radiator hose.

caterium
11-13-06, 10:32 AM
Thank you Nigel and Ranger!

I printed the water pump explosive view and I see very well the gasket who is probably in fault.Excuse my english if it seems bizarre,I'm not very good because I come from Québec and I speak in french.

I don't know if the coolant has ever been changed on the car,my father have since 3 weeks.But I,m almost sure it never been changed.

Do you think guys that I should change it completly or only remove the water pump cover,put new gasket,closing all this and toping coolant to full mark?

If you recommanded to me to change the coolant,is it a big job?

And also I'm not sure that I understand about the "sealant tabs"?
I never eared about that..is it recommanded by GM?
Can i buy it at the GM dealer?

Thank you guys to take the time for me:thumbsup:

nigelb
11-13-06, 12:02 PM
hey, don't worry about your english, there's 3 types of it being posted here, i'm english, ranger speaks american english and you're speaking canadian english, we're doing fine with the comunication.

to change the gasket you need to drain some coolant so you might as well change the whole lot. you are supposed to take of the surge tank and wash it out when you change the coolant.
there's a drain plug in the bottom of the radiator (drivers side) there is no drain plug on the block.
the coolant tabs are a GM part and are available at your local caddy dealer, my FSM shows them as part# 3634621. the stuff is not only recommended, it is a requirement with a N*.
you take off the lower hose and put them in it. of course there is no "lower" hose in the traditional sense because N* radiators feed from the top on each side.
the hose from the thermostat is the "top" hose.
when i change my coolant i drop the radiator plug, take off the surge tank and to help drain the block i jack up the rear pasenger side of the car as high as i can.

caterium
11-13-06, 01:57 PM
Thank you Nigel for your tips.I call my Gm dealer right now after I writing this for bying my gasket,my dexcool and the tabs.I let you know how the things going to!!:thumbsup:

Ranger
11-13-06, 05:30 PM
Just for clarification, per our old Guru, the cooling system suppliment (sealant tabs) where mandatory on the 4.1, 4.5 & 4.9. They were recommended (per him) on the Northstar, and GM has infact stopped using them on the Northstar at some point.

I agree with Nigel. If the cooling system has not been serviced yet, you are overdue. Do it while you have it opened up.

BTW, your english is better than some english speaking American posters and certainly better than my French.

Murphyg
11-13-06, 08:32 PM
Just for clarification, per our old Guru, the cooling system suppliment (sealant tabs) where mandatory on the 4.1, 4.5 & 4.9. They were recommended (per him) on the Northstar, and GM has infact stopped using them on the Northstar at some point.

I agree with Nigel. If the cooling system has not been serviced yet, you are overdue. Do it while you have it opened up.

BTW, your english is better than some english speaking American posters and certainly better than my French.

No matter what the GM dealer tells you put in the tablets.
I do know for sure now that they are still required in the N# for the year 01
It is quite sad to say, but the truth is that many dealers are not aware of this.
Pop your hood and look at the sticker on the cowling above the radiator.
It states it right there.

I dont know if its just ignorance on there part, bad training, or maybe they would prefer to ignore it; so as to soak you for cash once the warrantee is up and there is a major failure.

Either or

Put them in !!!

I believe that 3 tabs is what is recomended.


BTW nigelb
Maybe its 4 types of english
Im Canadian too EH !

Ranger
11-13-06, 09:35 PM
Lets not get confused here or start any false information. The lack of tabs will not cause any major failure, or any failure for that matter. They're sole purpose it to seal porous aluminum castings and prevent small niusance leaks. I would not loose any sleep if they are not in there. Infact, I don't think there were any put in mine when they replaced the crossover two weeks ago. I sleep pretty well.

Murphyg
11-13-06, 10:03 PM
Just sayin that GM does still recommend them for up to at least the 01s'. So no harm in doin what is recomended. Specially if by chance you still have some warranty happenin.

BTW.
Appoligize for goin over board with the "major failure'" statement.

Ranger
11-13-06, 10:34 PM
No problem. A lot of people read these forums and I just didn't want anyone to get wrong information about the sealant tabs. Wrong info spreads like wild fire on the internet.

I am not sure when they discontinued using them. I would have guessed before '01, but you have proven that wrong. I certainly agree that you won't do any harm adding them. Hell, I even brought my own and told the dealer to be sure to install them when they did the crossover, but they were still in the glovebox when I picked up the car. On the bright side, had they been in there, I never would have known that I had a leak while still under warranty. I'm not going to bother opening the system to install them til the next coolant change.

caterium
11-14-06, 08:22 AM
Hi Guys thank you for your interest!!

The job is beginning,yesterday I started by removing the air box and the ...computer box!! It's special to see that the ecm is there!! anyway I removing this box and put it apart.After do this,the access to the water pump cover is easy.Before removing the cover,I flushing the coolant.It's very easy to remove the plug under the radiator,after,like Nigel said to me I lifting the rear passenger side the higher that I can.

I was ready to removing the pump cover.I beginning by disconnecting the thermostat hose and next I removing the 4 (10 mm) bolts.I pulling the cover,it stick a little bit,but I succed to remove it.one last hose is stay to removing(a little rubber hose(3" lenght)who become a metal hose.I remove it.

Now I have the cover in my hand.I see the gasket.It seem to have some flat aeras.I hope it's the problem!!

This after noon, I going to the dealer for pick up my stuffs(gasket,tabs and coolant) and I will continue the job this evening.

It is recommended to put some silicon or stuff like that whit the new gasket or only put the new gasket on the slot?

What is the best way to clean the surge thank?
Is it a must even this car have only 17 000 miles?

P.S(My father is amazing when I show to him this printed discussion and the pics of exploded view of the water pump!!:thumbsup: thank you to all of you!)

nigelb
11-14-06, 10:26 AM
i think you will need to look at the new gasket and decide for yourself if gasket sealer is required.
some people say 'yes, always' others say 'no, never' it is a personal choice.
i probably would use a gasket sealer if the new gasket was flat paper, the cover only needs to be very slightly out of shape to leak.
the service manual shows a torque figure of 89 lb/ft (10 N.m) with no special tightening proceedure, thats quite tight!
to clean the tank i removed mine from the car, put my finger over the bottom outlet and filled it with clean water. i then put the cap on and still covering the outlets i shook it real hard before emptying out the water. i did this 3 or 4 times.
the fact that the car has only 17k on it in 6 years is probably even more reason to clean the tank, the colant has spent a long time just sitting still and gunk has more time to settle.

Ranger
11-14-06, 05:20 PM
I would say that if you need something to make the gasket stick in place during instalation, baybe a little vasaline or grease. Otherwise I don't think you need or want anything.

Personally I would not bother cleaning the tank. I know it looks bad, and I used to do that til I realized that it is nothing more than seant tabs residue and won't do any harm.

caterium
11-14-06, 10:30 PM
Hi guys!

The new gasket is in place,I put 3 sealant tab(powder) and 2 liters of coolant directly in the lower hose after I replug it.

After I put in the surge tank I would said aproximately 4 liters(until the system don't want swallow coolant).

At this point the coolant level is at the mark "full cold"(where the surge thank become opac) and I consider that I have 6-7 liters of new coolant in the system and the capacities is 11.8 liters.
After this I started the car and let it runs about 10-15 min.I finally stopped the engine because I was a little bit nervous and affraid to toasting anything if the coolant don't go in the engine.The coolant level stay at the same place.

My questions is should I let run the engine more time until the opening of the thermostat?

In my mind I said I put 6-7 liters on 11.8 liters, is it air in the system? or old coolant stay in engine?
I will waiting your advices guys!

Thank you:)

Ranger
11-14-06, 10:41 PM
Rev it to 3000 - 4000 RPM 3 or 4 times to purge any air in the system.

nigelb
11-15-06, 03:56 AM
over the nex couple of days check the coolant when cold or warm, adding as required.
the system is self bleeding and does so quite quickly.
i'm glad that you've got the job done.

caterium
11-15-06, 06:48 PM
Ok guys, I put about 1 liters more this morning until the full cold mark(the level down a little bit during the night)

after I started the engine,let it idling during one minute and rev it 3000-4000 rpm but the level stay the same.

I said to my father driving is car normaly this week and checking the level of coolant evrey morning.

A special thank to Ranger and Nigel for their precious help:thumbsup:
I'm very happy to meet you!

Caterium

Murphyg
11-15-06, 07:04 PM
turn your heat on too.
think that will also get things flowing.

tstach
11-16-06, 08:49 PM
the service manual shows a torque figure of 89 lb/ft (10 N.m) with no special tightening proceedure, thats quite tight!

If we're talking about the water pump cover, I believe it is 89 lb/in, which is approximately 7 lb/in.

I just did my water pump. There was a design change on the cover and cover gasket at some point. I did buy the new pump cover and gasket from dealer. About $50 total for both not including the pump ($42.00). I b ought this from Rock Auto. I have a can of GM Lubriplate, which I used just a little on all the gaskets during reinstall.

Everything is o-rings or rubber gaskets/seals in this area. The pump has an o-ring. The thermostat has a rubber seal and the pump cover has a redesigned rubber seal as well.

Watch the torque specs. The 7 lb/in I quoted is approximate. My torque wrench only reads in lb/ft, so I has to approximate the lb/in setting.

Ranger
11-16-06, 09:04 PM
If we're talking about the water pump cover, I believe it is 89 lb/in, which is approximately 7 lb/in.


Don't you mean 7 lb/ft?

Murphyg
11-16-06, 09:30 PM
12 inches in a foot.
So divide 89 by 12 and 7.4166666

nigelb
11-17-06, 04:59 AM
murphy, thanks for spotting my error.

tstach
11-18-06, 09:46 AM
Don't you mean 7 lb/ft?

Yep, you're right. That's about what I retorqued to.

tstach
11-18-06, 09:46 AM
murphy, thanks for spotting my error.

No problem...