: English Paper Help (its on E85 gas guys)



CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 06:17 PM
Basically i need to write a 5-7 page paper about a problem in the world and i chose the fuel prices and the possible e85 solution, I need any major artical from like us times or news week or times mag etc etc that has info and describes the problem and how e85 may solve it. PLEASE GUYS me and nik are workin on this right now and im about fired lol.

CadillacGurl
11-06-06, 06:40 PM
Ok this is what I have so far as an intro:
Over the past couple years under the Bush administration in America, gas prices around the United States of America skyrocketed from the war in Iraq. The people of the US became astounded at how high the gas prices became causing people to somewhat panic at first. People started trying to buy the most fuel efficient cars, typically ones with higher miles per gallon so their money would be well spent. The car dealers, specifically the ones who sell SUVs were hit hard causing their sales to slump. Then recently a new kind of fuel was introduced based on corn and ethanol called E85. It has been shown on the televisions in commercial form saying how this E85 Flex Fuel will help alleviate the cost of gas. This gas would definitely be cheaper than the octane gas that is found at the pumps nationwide. E85 would help the economy since it emits fewer pollutants than octane gas, making the environment safer.
E85 got its name for having 85% ethanol and the other 15% is unleaded gas. It was developed by (person’s name)

Please help us out! (sorry if there's grammatical errors I quickly posted it) It won't take tabs hence why its smushed and it looks non-function paragraph wise

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 07:00 PM
heres what weve got so far
One of the growing concerns today is the depletion of fossil fuels. Lately fuel prices have skyrocketed reaching an all time high. Some argue that E85 gasoline will alleviate our dependency on and help to conserve dino- fuel.
The total depleation of oil has been a fear the United States has been struggling with since the 1970’s. In 1973 due to the United States support of Isreal, the Middle eastern counties which were part of OPEC placed a ban on selling oil to the United States. The problem became so great that President Carter passed a law stating on which days of the week you could purchase gasoline bases on the last digit of your cars licence plate. Although the embargo ended only a year after it began in 1973, the OPEC nations had quadrupled the price of oil in the West. Many people gave up on their large cars which consumed enormous amounts of gasoline to more economic cars which debued during this time.
Recently for various reasons the price of fuel has begun to rise once again. Over the past couple years under the Bush administration in America, gas prices around the United States of America skyrocketed from the war in Iraq, other reasons were due to many oil refineries being shut down due to flooding caused by hurricane Katrina. Within a matter of days thee price of gasoline rose from 2.50 cents a gallon to over 3 dollars. The people of the US became astounded at how high the gas prices became causing people to somewhat panic at first. So again, like in the fuel chrisis of 1973, people have began to trade in their large gas guzzleing SUVs, for more economic fuel-efficent vechiales with higher mpg or miles per gallon. This drop has greatly hurt the American auto industry, who prides itself on the all powerful V8 engines. The car dealers, specifically the ones who sell SUVs were hit hard causing their sales to slump. Ford had to discontinue its largest SUV the Excursion due to the large drop in sales. This has pushed for a search for both more fuel efficient cars and better ways to power them with more readily available resources.
According to Time Magazine (2), “As oil prices have soared in recent years, there has been increasing attention on renewable-energy sources such as wind and solar power. But even if those sources are expanded, they would not change the U.S.'s fundamental dependence on foreign oil and its derivative, gasoline, to which our car-obsessed culture is addicted. Unless we could plug in our cars and charge them off the electrical grid instead of filling them up at the pump, all those options would leave us as hooked on gas as ever. And while pure electric-car technology has been around for years, it is plagued by a crucial problem: a lack of range.”
This has lead to the most recent solution to the problem, E85. As (3) states E85 is “a blend of 85 percent corn-based ethanol and 15 percent gasoline.” This answer is actually the most viable yet to date when it comes to the US dependency of oil. E85, due to its low oil level, demands a lower price at about 2 dollars a gallon and when compaired to 100 percent fossil fuel gas which is priced at 2.50 a gallon the choice is obvious to make when deciding on what to use to fuel-up. Many automakers are also taking notice of this demand for E85 capable cars. It is believed that E85 fuel will help alleviate the cost of gas by lowering the demand by lessening the dependency. GM recently introduced its FlexFuel system as an option on some of its models which enables vechiles to safely use E85 fuel.
Among cost advantage of E85, there is also an envromental one. E85 would help, since it emits fewer pollutants than pure octane gas, making the environment safer.

Krashed989
11-06-06, 07:01 PM
... E85 would help the economy since it emits fewer pollutants than octane gas, making the environment safer...

Not true actually. Ethanol blends actually release more nitrous oxides, unless of course it's a flex-fuel vehicle that was designed for the increased oxygen amounts contained in the fuel.


I think it would be hard to write a paper that long on the good things about ethanol... The only things I can think of that are good about it are that it's renewable and helps the farmer's revenue.

BUT then again this is coming from someone who debated against ethanol in his college debate class... LOL

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-06-06, 07:06 PM
Here's GM's page describing what E85 is for their "Live Green, Go Yellow" campaign for their flex fuel vehicles.
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/livegreengoyellow/]

Hope that helps!

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 07:57 PM
im totally against eth myself
however for this paper you have to display BOTH sides
then in the next paper you pick a side and explain why

so krashed give me all you got about the disadvantages and any sources for it man i TOTALLY appreciate it!!!

ChicagoCTS32
11-06-06, 08:15 PM
etc peeps...
1) you need to decide if you're bashing bush or not. If you are, leave in "under the bush administration". If you're not, you have to take it out because it bears no relevance to anything else you're saying. Unless this paper is called "why bush sucks", you should probably take it out anyway. It makes no sense unless this is going to turn into a politically charged paper.

2) The amount of energy that can be stored in E85 is less than that of Gasoline. About 1/3 less to be exact. Part of your counter point can be how flex fuel vehicles report 1/3 less mpg when running e85 as opposed to 100% petroleum based fuel.

3) You shouldn't say "dino-fuel". It's petroleum based, not dinosaur based. That's slang, and improper for a paper.

Krashed989
11-06-06, 08:22 PM
Disadvantages:

1.It takes more energy to convert corn into ethanol than you get out of ethanol (If the factories ran on ethanol, they would not be able to produce enough to run the plant alone. This means more gasoline will be burnt at powerplants, which really doesn't reduce our dependancy on foreign oils.) Plus, the factories are definitely not environmentally friendly (Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/03/tech/main508006.shtml )

2. Ethanol is a solvent which means that it has to be distributed in shipments rather than by pipelines. Otherwise, the pipelines would be eaten away by the fuel and leaks would develope, much like how Ethanol will eat away at any rubber or non corrosion resistant materials in your fuel system. (Flex fuel vehicles use Viton as a rubber sustitute to get around this, although even it is not enough for pure ethanol; thus it needs to be diluted with something (15% gasoline).) It will also break free any dirt that is in your gas tank and send it through the fuel filter, clogging it.

3. Ethanol absorbs water which greatly increases the risk of you buying "Bad gas". Gas stations are required to stick their tanks and put a special paste on the stick to see if there is any water present in the fuel whenever they order a delivery. I have personally seen this go uninforced many times. The reason it is so uninforced is because if the fuel contains too much water, the station has to pay to have the tank pumped out and the fuel disposed of. Then they have to pay to refill the tank. This costs them thousands of dollars.

Krashed989
11-06-06, 08:25 PM
3) You shouldn't say "dino-fuel". It's petroleum based, not dinosaur based. That's slang, and improper for a paper.

Ahh, but petroleum comes from the decomposed remains of prehistoric forests and animals...

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 08:26 PM
etc peeps...
1) you need to decide if you're bashing bush or not. If you are, leave in "under the bush administration". If you're not, you have to take it out because it bears no relevance to anything else you're saying. Unless this paper is called "why bush sucks", you should probably take it out anyway. It makes no sense unless this is going to turn into a politically charged paper.

2) The amount of energy that can be stored in E85 is less than that of Gasoline. About 1/3 less to be exact. Part of your counter point can be how flex fuel vehicles report 1/3 less mpg when running e85 as opposed to 100% petroleum based fuel.

3) You shouldn't say "dino-fuel". It's petroleum based, not dinosaur based. That's slang, and improper for a paper.

in the instructions it says to state what side the deno/repubs are in and what they have done about it

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 08:26 PM
ok heres what i got thanks alot guys i know this is getting long

One of the growing concerns today is the depletion of fossil fuels. Lately fuel prices have skyrocketed reaching an all time high. Some argue that E85 gasoline will alleviate our dependency on and help to conserve dino- fuel.
The total depleation of oil has been a fear the United States has been struggling with since the 1970's. In 1973 due to the United States support of Isreal, the Middle eastern counties which were part of OPEC placed a ban on selling oil to the United States. The problem became so great that President Nixon passed a law stating on which days of the week certain people could purchase gasoline bases on the last digit of a person's car licence plate “In the U.S., drivers of vehicles with license plates having an odd number as the last digit were allowed to purchase gasoline for their cars only on odd-numbered days of the month, while drivers of vehicles with even-numbered license plates were allowed to purchase fuel only on even-numbered days. The rule did not apply on the 31st day of those months containing 31 days, or on February 29 in leap years - the latter never came into play, as the restrictions had been abolished by 1976" (4). “Although the embargo ended only a year after it began in 1973, the OPEC nations had quadrupled the price of oil in the West. Many people gave up on their large cars which consumed enormous amounts of gasoline to more economic cars which debued during this time” (1).
Recently for various reasons, the price of fuel has begun to rise once again. Over the past couple years under the Bush administration in America, gas prices around the United States of America skyrocketed from the war in Iraq. Other reasons included were due to many oil refineries being shut down due to flooding caused by hurricane Katrina. Within a matter of days the price of gasoline rose from $2.50 cents a gallon to over $3 dollars. The people of the US became astounded at how high the gas prices became causing people to somewhat panic at first. So again, like in the fuel chrisis of 1973, people have began to trade in their large gas guzzleing SUVs, for more economic fuel-efficent vehicles with higher mpg or miles per gallon. This drop has greatly hurt the American auto industry, who prides itself on the all powerful V8 engines. The car dealers, specifically the ones who sell SUVs were hit hard causing their sales to slump. Ford had to discontinue its largest SUV the Excursion due to the large drop in sales. This has pushed for a search for both more fuel efficient cars and better ways to power them with more readily available resources.
According to Time Magazine (2), "As oil prices have soared in recent years, there has been increasing attention on renewable-energy sources such as wind and solar power. But even if those sources are expanded, they would not change the U.S.'s fundamental dependence on foreign oil and its derivative, gasoline, to which our car-obsessed culture is addicted. Unless we could plug in our cars and charge them off the electrical grid instead of filling them up at the pump, all those options would leave us as hooked on gas as ever. And while pure electric-car technology has been around for years, it is plagued by a crucial problem: a lack of range."
This has lead to the most recent solution to the problem, E85. As (3) states E85 is "a blend of 85 percent corn-based ethanol and 15 percent gasoline." This answer is actually the most viable yet to date when it comes to the US dependency of oil. E85, due to its low oil level, demands a lower price at about $2 dollars a gallon and when compaired to 100 percent fossil fuel gas which is priced at 2.50 a gallon the choice is obvious to make when deciding on what to use to fuel-up. It is believed that E85 fuel will help alleviate the cost of gas by lowering the demand by lessening the dependency. As GM states, “What if they could run on E85 ethanol... derived from corn? America could move towards energy independence with a homegrown, renewable fuel source that reduces greenhouse gas emssions while it boosts your engines performance” (8). Among cost advantage of E85, there is also an envromental one. E85 would help, since it emits fewer pollutants than pure octane gas, making the environment safer. Many automakers are also taking notice of this demand for E85 capable cars. Some cars already produced can use E85 such as Chryler Town and Country as far back as 1998. GM recently introduced its FlexFuel system as an option on some of its models, including the Impala and Tahoe which enables vechiles to safely use E85 fuel. According to GM (7) there are already 1.5 million Flex Fuel cars in use. Fuel stations as well are beginging to pick up on E85, as Sheetz states by the end of 2006 they hope to of launched more than 160 E85 locations (5).
Even with all these advantages, E85s biggest disadvantage still outweighs by far its advantage, that being the availblity of E85. Very few stations thus far sell E85, however according to Pennsylvania Governer Ed Rendell that will change, “ ‘Here in Pennsylvania, we are leading the charge to greater accessibility as the first state in the Northeast to open publicly available retail E85 stations,’ Rendell said. ‘This is a good step forward and we commend GM, VeraSun and Sheetz on their efforts to increase awareness of this viable alternative fuel and help drive consumer demand in our state’ (5).” Another issue is that very few cars can use E85. As GM states, “Can every vehicle in Ameican run on yellow? Not yet” (8). This is due to the fact that E85 is very caustic and without a properly equipped vechile, E85 will damage a car and eat through its fuel tank and lines. Also another problem with E85 is although at the pump E85 is cheaper, in the long run it end up being more expensive then octane gasoline. According to KDKA “A new Chevy Impala using flex fuel gets you 16 miles per gallon in the city and 23 on the highway. The yearly cost is $1,578. A standard gas-fueled impala gets 21 city, 31 highway, and costs about $200 less. A dodge ram with E85 only pulls in 9 in the city, 11 on the highway, at a whopping $3,000 a year, against about $2500 for a gas engine. And the Chevy Tahoe? Expect 11 miles per gallon in the city and 15 on the highway, and an extra $400 per year. (6)”

Krashed989
11-06-06, 08:31 PM
in the instructions it says to state what side the deno/repubs are in and what they have done about it

LMAO, you mean Demo, short for Democrats.

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 08:31 PM
Disadvantages:

1.It takes more energy to convert corn into ethanol than you get out of ethanol (If the factories ran on ethanol, they would not be able to produce enough to run the plant alone. This means more gasoline will be burnt at powerplants, which really doesn't reduce our dependancy on foreign oils.) Plus, the factories are definitely not environmentally friendly (Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/03/tech/main508006.shtml )



any web site as proof about them using more fuel then they output i herd this but cannot find any

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 09:00 PM
anything krashed???

Krashed989
11-06-06, 10:06 PM
anything krashed???

WOW!!! I was wrong on that one.... Good thing my debate partner didn't catch that as the rumour that it is... LOL.... I didn't use any sources on that other than word of mouth, which was wrong, completely and utterly wrong...

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 10:44 PM
damn thats alot
cant find where it says it doesnt cost alot more fuel to make it then it renders...
can ya highlight it?
right now im e85 fried....

ChicagoCTS32
11-06-06, 11:05 PM
Ahh, but petroleum comes from the decomposed remains of prehistoric forests and animals...
Ahhh, but it's still slang and improper.

ChicagoCTS32
11-06-06, 11:18 PM
in the instructions it says to state what side the deno/repubs are in and what they have done about it
You can take out "under the Bush administration in America" and the sentence still makes sense. If it doesn't add anything to your point, take it out.

Read:
1) Over the past couple years under the Bush administration in America, gas prices around the United States of America skyrocketed from the war in Iraq.

2) Gas prices around the United States of America skyrocketed as a result of social and political unrest due to the war in Iraq.

Unless you're going to make a point immediately following that statement about bush, you're making a sweeping generalization with nothing to back it up.

CadillacSTS42005
11-06-06, 11:38 PM
thanks ChitownCTS!

behind-bars
11-07-06, 12:08 AM
On a quick grammatical front, I don't think cents is needed after $2.50,

Few other notes

Was it Nixon or Carter, I believe you said both in the different revisions.

Also ford has been using flex fuel since 99 I believe in some of the taruses, before the Bush adm. so its not totally new or related to the current adm

I would try and think of a better term then "octane" to describe oil derived fuel, E85 has octane measurements aswell.

Here is a link that may help you defend gasoline, Ive read similar, not sure if it was that one exactly, just the first result in google of "peak oil myth"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/peak_oil/index.htm

Bonus points to the site for picturing a Cadillac :)

Krashed989
11-07-06, 01:00 AM
...I would try and think of a better term then "octane" to describe oil derived fuel, E85 has octane measurements aswell...


E85 only has the octane from the 15% gasoline. So no, it doesn't really have that much octane at all. Although they do rate the energy potential of E85 to be equivalent to 108 octane gasoline. I think it was 108 anyway, not completely sure...

Just trying to clarify. You're right though that he should use a different term.

And ETC, this is out of that site:

New study confronts old thinking on ethanol's net energy value, 3/28/2005 -- Ethanol generates 35% more energy than it takes to produce, according to a recent study by Argonne National Laboratory conducted by Michael Wang. The new findings support earlier research that determined ethanol has a positive net energy balance, according to the National Corn Growers Association. That research was conducted by USDA, Michigan State University, the Colorado School of Mines, the Institute for Local Self-Reliance and other public and private entities. Argonne is one of the US Department of Energy's largest research centers.
http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata
/ag/story/data/agNews_050328crETHANOL.xml&catref=ag1001
Report on the new study :
http://www.ncga.com/public_policy/PDF/03_28_05
ArgonneNatlLabEthanolStudy.pdf

A USDA study released in 2004 found that ethanol may net as much as 67% more energy than it takes to produce.
http://www.ethanol.org/documents/NetEnergyBalanceofEthanol.pdf

EcSTSatic
11-07-06, 07:49 AM
in the instructions it says to state what side the deno/repubs are in and what they have done about it

That's a good point (the guys beat me to it). Without turning this thread or your paper political; the effects of Katrina, the war and the stock market all play into gas prices not the Bush Administration in particular. You have to address the whole "ecosystem" if you want to explain why fuel prices went up.

As mentioned, avoid using slang. Good papers are timeless.

Then there's the harm ethanol does to fuel systems, on boats particularly.
http://powerboat.about.com/od/maintenance/a/Engines_ethanol.htm

Good luck. You will have a difficult time showing E85 being the answer to fuel prices. :thumbsup: