: Magnets Increase Mileage/Power??



digitalcaddie
10-31-06, 05:31 PM
Just messing around on eBay today and I came across this auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Seville-Gas-Fuel-Saver-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42604QQihZ007QQitemZ 170043766039QQrdZ1

The guy claims that his magnet aligns/ionizes the hydrocarbon molecules in gasoline which allows for better mixing with oxygen in the carburetor which yields more complete combustion which yields better fuel economy and more power. Has anyone tried one of these before??? What were your results???

I'm an electrical engineer whose had quite a bit of chemistry and regularly works with electric and magnetic fields, but I don't quite see how ionizing and aligning the gasoline molecules will yield better performance. I would think that if you're getting incomplete combustion (not enough oxygen in the chambers) you're going to lose power, but the O2 sensors should adjust the air/fuel ratio to correct the problem. So as long as you have plenty of O2 in the carb, why would ionizing the molecules change anything?? Let me know what you think or please post a review if you've tried one of these things. Thanks.

digitalcaddie
10-31-06, 05:33 PM
OK...the link above is to his auction, but if the auction has ended do a search for Item #170043766039.

This is one of the strangest things I've seen.

Kcryan
10-31-06, 05:51 PM
Nope, they dont work, but im sure people buy them and get a wonderful placebo effect....

digitalcaddie
10-31-06, 06:01 PM
Hmm...interesting. The guy offered 3 times your money back if you weren't happy...he must be banking on the "placebo" effect or people who are too lazy to track him down.

dkozloski
10-31-06, 06:20 PM
Buy six sets of these, put them on your car, as you drive you can drain the excess fuel as it accumulates in your tank and sell it to your neighbors. Prosperity is just around the corner.

danbuc
10-31-06, 06:22 PM
:histeric: :histeric: :histeric: :histeric: :histeric: :histeric:

....that is all

urbanski
10-31-06, 06:39 PM
http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/4671/1zl3.gif

nigelb
10-31-06, 07:18 PM
best bit is where the guy says you should fit a new air filter and use some injector cleaner to help speed up the results. can't beat some basic servicing to increase milage, heck do the plugs and wires while you're at at.

looks like his gimmick is the type of magnet in the device, those neodymium magnets are very powerful for their size. and expensive.
so powerful in fact that it might be hard to get the two halves of the device apart so that you can instal it.
because of the strength there might only be a small piece in the casing, making it no better than the other brands.
magnets can align molecules, look at MRI scanners, they align the hydrogen atoms inside your body. the effect only lasts for as long as you're in the magnetic field and a lot of energy is used to create the field.
after my MRI scan i certainly didn't feel like i could run any faster, damn machine gave me a headache, all that banging and booming.

i once had a guy work for me that sold those magnetic health bracelets as a sideline.
he had them for people and animals and he had magnet devices for cars.
he tried like heck to get me to buy a bracelet and a magnet for my van, offering a money back warranty. i just used to chuckle and say no.
well the end of it is that he lost a load of money buying his 'stock', the distributor wouldn't buy it back from him, they said he had to resell all the stock people returned to him.

Ranger
10-31-06, 10:20 PM
The guy's who invented that magnet and the "Tornado" consider P.T. Barnum as their patron saint.

Ranger
10-31-06, 10:24 PM
Hmm...interesting. The guy offered 3 times your money back if you weren't happy...he must be banking on the "placebo" effect or people who are too lazy to track him down.
Yeah, try collecting on it. :rolleyes:

dp102288
11-01-06, 08:21 AM
I thought it was a good idea! :tongue2:

chevelle
11-01-06, 12:02 PM
Just messing around on eBay today and I came across this auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Seville-Gas-Fuel-Saver-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42604QQihZ007QQitemZ 170043766039QQrdZ1

The guy claims that his magnet aligns/ionizes the hydrocarbon molecules in gasoline which allows for better mixing with oxygen in the carburetor which yields more complete combustion which yields better fuel economy and more power. Has anyone tried one of these before??? What were your results???

I'm an electrical engineer whose had quite a bit of chemistry and regularly works with electric and magnetic fields, but I don't quite see how ionizing and aligning the gasoline molecules will yield better performance. I would think that if you're getting incomplete combustion (not enough oxygen in the chambers) you're going to lose power, but the O2 sensors should adjust the air/fuel ratio to correct the problem. So as long as you have plenty of O2 in the carb, why would ionizing the molecules change anything?? Let me know what you think or please post a review if you've tried one of these things. Thanks.



Now really.....you cannot be an electrical engineer (or any sort of "engineer")and ask this question in ernest.....can you???

Even the guy they let drive the train knows that fuel line magnets are pure bullshit....LOL

BTW......you would have trouble finding any vehicle made in the last 15 or more years that had a "carburetor" for the "ionized and molecularily aligned fuel" to flow thru.

digitalcaddie
11-01-06, 02:10 PM
Chevelle...I don't claim to "know it all"...thats why I asked the question initially. Didn't make any sense to me, but just cuz something doens't make sense doens't mean it won't work.

And as pointed out, MRI machines do align molecules in your body but it takes a VERY strong superconducting magnet to do that. The magnets this guy is selling would not have anywhere near the same field strength.

digitalcaddie
11-01-06, 02:11 PM
I should learn how to spell "doesn't"

dkozloski
11-01-06, 02:37 PM
Automotive fuel lines are steel. The steel completely diverts the field from the magnets around the fluid inside. It makes no difference what the magnetism is supposed to do to the fluid because it never gets there. The whole premise is so rediculous that it boggles the mind that the subject could even be under discussion.

Ranger
11-01-06, 04:39 PM
What ever happened to "Truth In Advertizing"? Arn't there laws against these scams?

eldorado1
11-01-06, 04:47 PM
Not as long as they claim "UP TO" 500 MPG... and "UP TO" 50 extra HP ;)

clarkz71
11-01-06, 04:52 PM
You have to read that auction description, it's unbelievable what people will say in public.

dkozloski
11-01-06, 05:35 PM
You have to read that auction description, it's unbelievable what people will say in public.
No it isn't. Have you heard John Kerry over the years?

clarkz71
11-01-06, 05:39 PM
You mean like "If you don't do good in school, you'll end up in Iraq"
I heard Kerry say that on the news yesterday.

Ranger
11-01-06, 05:43 PM
You mean like "If you don't do good in school, you'll end up in Iraq"
I heard Kerry say that on the news yesterday.

And today he pays the piper.

clarkz71
11-01-06, 06:04 PM
You know it! :want:

Zorb750
11-02-06, 01:37 AM
Automotive fuel lines are steel. The steel completely diverts the field from the magnets around the fluid inside. It makes no difference what the magnetism is supposed to do to the fluid because it never gets there. The whole premise is so rediculous that it boggles the mind that the subject could even be under discussion.

This actually brings up an interesting point... What about the ones that specifically instruct you to put the magnet on the steel part of the fuel line? Interesting, hmm? You have to wonder if any of the people selling this bullshit ever took and science or engineering classes in their pathetic little lives?

thu
11-02-06, 01:54 AM
The sad thing is that people trying to get something for nothing will buy this crap.

I had a friend that keeps trying to look for and invent the perpertual motion machine. Same kind of person that believes that, buys this "magnetic fuel economizer" stuff.

Un-frickin' believeable.

dp102288
11-02-06, 09:44 AM
I don't blame people 100%. Some just don't know. I think that's why infomercials work so well.

To someone who knows only a little about cars and science, they might be inclined to believe that a magnet could have this effect on the fuel.

Ranger
11-02-06, 11:19 AM
Just goes to prove that P.T. Barnum was right.

RAD
11-02-06, 11:57 AM
[quote=digitalcaddie;851184]And as pointed out, MRI machines do align molecules in your body but it takes a VERY strong superconducting magnet to do that.

MRI 'machines' do nothing of the sort. What's actually happening is the hydrogen atoms in your body are caused to 'spin' off axis, while an RF (radio frequency) pulse is introduced to create a resonant signature which the image is derived from. Hence the name 'Magnetic Resonance Imaging'. This is a very simplified explanation, but since we're talking facts vs BS...

urbanski
11-02-06, 12:06 PM
lol k-space

JimHare
11-02-06, 05:21 PM
Is gasoline magnetic in the first place?

chevelle
11-02-06, 11:55 PM
You have to wonder if any of the people selling this bullshit ever took and science or engineering classes in their pathetic little lives?


The people selling this type of thing are preying on ignorance and other people's desire to get something for nothing. There is no science involved. They know the junk doesn't work. They don't care. They just want you to send them money. They are more phychologists than scientists to invent the bullshit advertisements so that people will believe them and buy the product.

chevelle
11-02-06, 11:57 PM
[quote=RAD;852208
MRI 'machines' do nothing of the sort. What's actually happening is the hydrogen atoms in your body are caused to 'spin' off axis, while an RF (radio frequency) pulse is introduced to create a resonant signature which the image is derived from. Hence the name 'Magnetic Resonance Imaging'. This is a very simplified explanation, but since we're talking facts vs BS...[/quote]


But....but.....how do it know...????

dkozloski
11-03-06, 10:35 AM
The people selling this type of thing are preying on ignorance and other people's desire to get something for nothing. There is no science involved. They know the junk doesn't work. They don't care. They just want you to send them money. They are more phychologists than scientists to invent the bullshit advertisements so that people will believe them and buy the product.
On top of that, these gadgets have been renewed and recycled for nearly 80 years. This stuff was for sale in the old pulp magazines like Mechanics Illustrated and True magazine when my dad was a kid. You don't even have to make the effort to dream up this stuff. Just go to the library and go through the old magazines.

RAD
11-03-06, 10:38 AM
But....but.....how do it know...????

Whatchoo talkin bout?? How do it know what??? :confused:

BTW.. I was just at SEMA. The jokers selling this rediculous little gizmo had a good sized booth and elaborate display. Looks like they've been raking in a few bucks to support pitching this concept, it was quite a bit bigger than prior years. I dropped by and whooped some fourier transform and quantem mechanics on them...blank, rather unhappy looks, followed by silence and backs turned...:stirpot:

rugby2
11-03-06, 11:33 AM
local tv station did test on tornado supercharger said didn't work. I once bought a 1 1/2 " spacer hooked up to elect. that was supposed to give more down draft and preheat gas air mixture. it didn't work. thought it might as on old hot rods they had device that raised and gave more downdraft. preheat was ? this was on a olds 455 cu in didn't help but didn't hurt either. I can't see how mag. would help fuel. but did see add for one you put on oil filter. says contains/holds metal particals in oil. don't see how could while driving? might when stoped.?(flow would be too much while running)

JimD
11-03-06, 12:00 PM
These and similar marketing schemes do not attract the publicity they deserve. When the Federal Trade Commission clamps down on downright fraud, your local newspaper editor decides that is not really news and will not boost circulation. But every once in a while, the story becomes available.

************************************************** ********
Simply Amazing! (The Promises, Not the Gas Savings)

By TIM MORAN
Published: August 6, 2006
THE federal Environmental Protection Agency maintains a full laboratory where it
will gladly test a miraculous fuel-saving device for $30,000. But so far, the
biggest customer of the lab has been the Federal Trade Commission, which uses it
to debunk false advertising claims.

The latest products have received a lift from the Internet and television
infomercials. But while the inventiveness of the marketing has improved, the
success of the devices has not.

“We tested about 100 products, a little more than a hundred, and we can boil
them down to saying that they don’t work,” John Millett, an E.P.A. spokesman,
said.

The F.T.C. lists the results of its tests at the E.P.A. lab on its consumer
protection Web site, www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.pdf. If the
F.T.C. decides a product is falsely advertised it can take action against the
company selling it.

The E.P.A. reviews the chemicals used in gasoline additives, to ensure that what
comes out of the tailpipe is no more harmful than emissions from regular fuel.
It then issues a registration letter.

This letter does not constitute approval or endorsement, but marketers often use
it to claim E.P.A. “certification.”

Some fuel or oil additives can be a problem for engines and fuel systems.
Additives displace protective chemicals in gasoline and engine oil; some may
corrode fuel pumps or gas tanks, or make flexible fuel hoses and fittings
brittle. Instead of enhancing engine life and economy, users might shorten their
car’s life.

A senior editor at Popular Mechanics magazine, Mike Allen, found results similar
to those obtained by the E.P.A. when he took a crateful of fuel-saving
contraptions to a Texas testing lab to check their effectiveness. “None of them
improved fuel economy, several of them increased fuel consumption and most of
them cost horsepower,” Mr. Allen said in an interview.

To test the gizmos, Mr. Allen used a pair of chassis dynamometers made available
by the Universal Technical Institute, a Houston vocational school. A dynamometer
is a machine that measures the power output of a running vehicle on rollers to
allow its wheels to spin as though they were rolling along pavement.

When fuel consumption was carefully measured, first without and then with the
so-called “enhancers” — everything from the Fuel Atomizer 2000, a gadget that
took fuel through a big loop of copper tubing to vaporize it and pump it back
into the engine, to the Electronic Engine Ionizer, a device that is supposed to
feed energy back and forth to one cylinder or another through clip-on wires.
Some gadgets were hard to install; others were hazardous. “This device had
something they called ‘capacitor blocks,’ ” Mr. Allen said of the Electronic
Engine Ionizer. “They melted and dripped onto the adjustment bolt and caught
fire.”

Another device, the AquaTune, cost $399 and resulted in 20 less horsepower and a
20 percent drop in mileage.

Mr. Allen reported on his findings in the magazine’s September 2005 issue. He
recalled recently that after a week of testing he had gained respect not for the
technology involved, but for the persuasive skills of promoters.

He pointed out that any carmaker that could honestly promise economy gains of
300 percent, 30 percent or even 3 percent would be doing that rather than
offering cash incentives to sell vehicles in a brutally competitive global
market.

Auto companies employ some of the world’s top engineers, and they are desperate
for an edge in the economy sweepstakes. “The possibility that some guy who’s
tinkering in his back yard is going to come up with it is really remote,” Mr.
Allen said.

Why do people who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on a well-engineered
car believe that the $100 Fuel Genie, the $198 Platinum Gas Saver or the $70
TornadoFuelSaver might reap huge benefits?

On ABC News’s “20/20,” the inventor of the Platinum Gas Saver asserted that
skepticism over his product was partly because of a smear campaign by the
tobacco industry — and he then posted on his Web site a brash “as seen on”
reference to the newsmagazine.

Gas-Saving Traps
Dr. Carl Haugtvedt, a social psychologist who is an associate professor of
marketing logistics at Ohio State University, said that the kind of faith that
draws consumers to gadgets like these was actually important to human mental
health. Part of the attraction stems from hopefulness and a willingness to trust
that something can improve a painful situation. Another factor is self-delusion,
which protects the ego by letting a person overlook bad decisions.

“You could admit to yourself that you were wrong, you wasted this money, you
burned this money, say ‘I’m an idiot,’ ” Dr. Haugtvedt said. “That’s very tough
on the self.”

People who are hopeful enough to try out a fuel-economy enhancer will look for
any positive sign they can find to convince themselves that they made a good
decision. They may put the device in their car and, at the same time, get a
tune-up — something suggested in the installation instructions with many
devices. Or, because the owners are paying more attention to their cars, they
may realize that their tires are underinflated and add some air. Then, each time
they add fuel at the gas pump, they attribute any mileage gain to the device.

Consumer Reports’ experts are accustomed to such consumer behavior. David
Champion, director of automobile testing, urges people to be aware of how cars
work so they can be wiser buyers. When the magazine recently tested the Fuel
Genie, the TornadoFuelSaver and the Platinum Gas Saver, it found they had no
effect.

“We read the instructions extremely well, followed them to the absolute letter,
and did a fuel-economy run,” Mr. Champion said. The drives were done using fuel
meters spliced into the gasoline lines to measure the volume of fuel consumed,
and the same test runs used to evaluate new cars were performed. “They didn’t
make any difference at all,” he said.

Mr. Champion said drivers should look beyond the powerful advertising behind the
devices and, instead, modify their driving. “Drive as if you’ve got a cup of
coffee on your dashboard and you don’t want to spill it,” he said. “No heavy
acceleration, no heavy braking.”

Mr. Allen, at Popular Mechanics, has an alternate solution. “If you want to save
gas,” he said, “stay home.”

New York Times

RAD
11-03-06, 12:14 PM
. I can't see how mag. would help fuel. but did see add for one you put on oil filter. says contains/holds metal particals in oil. don't see how could while driving? might when stoped.?(flow would be too much while running)

Well, a PPM (permanent periodic magnet) made form sintered samarium cobalt could easily have enough field stregth (2000 gauss) to attach externally to an oil filter and attract particles even under pressurised fllow conditions, but let's think about this...The metal 'particles' would have to come from a ferrous source. What might that be?

dkozloski
11-03-06, 02:53 PM
Well, a PPM (permanent periodic magnet) made form sintered samarium cobalt could easily have enough field stregth (2000 gauss) to attach externally to an oil filter and attract particles even under pressurised fllow conditions, but let's think about this...The metal 'particles' would have to come from a ferrous source. What might that be?
Magnetic oil drain plugs have been available on cars for years. They catch any ferrous wear materials from parts like piston rings, cams, lifters, gears, and cylinder walls. Most of it would probably be caught in the filter anyhow.

Ranger
11-03-06, 05:14 PM
local tv station did test on tornado supercharger said didn't work. I once bought a 1 1/2 " spacer hooked up to elect. that was supposed to give more down draft and preheat gas air mixture. it didn't work. thought it might as on old hot rods they had device that raised and gave more downdraft. preheat was ? this was on a olds 455 cu in didn't help but didn't hurt either. I can't see how mag. would help fuel. but did see add for one you put on oil filter. says contains/holds metal particals in oil. don't see how could while driving? might when stoped.?(flow would be too much while running)
Isn't that what the filter is there for?

RAD
11-03-06, 05:17 PM
Magnetic oil drain plugs have been available on cars for years. They catch any ferrous wear materials from parts like piston rings, cams, lifters, gears, and cylinder walls. Most of it would probably be caught in the filter anyhow.

You know now that you mentioned it, way back when (in the early seventies) while doing my undergrad work at Cal Poly I worked as a "fifth man" mechanic on weekends at a little mom and pop Union 76 (full service) station. Remember those? LOL Anyway, we would get all kinds of work there, but while doing the basic "LOF"S I would occasionally come across an engine with one of those magnetic drain plugs. Don't really remember how long it was that the last change/cleaning occured, but the magnet on the plug would typically have a 'feathery' load of metal fragments on it, equaling perhaps the size of a penny. These were of course fifty's and sixty's cars with much looser tolerances than today. Not to mention the difference in oils and filtration compared to present day.

clarkz71
11-03-06, 05:31 PM
The lower pan on the 4T80E has a magnet in it from the factory.

Ranger
11-03-06, 05:35 PM
I think all tranies have magnets in the pan as well as all crank case drain plugs are magnetic.

clarkz71
11-03-06, 05:42 PM
I think all tranies have magnets in the pan as well as all crank case drain plugs are magnetic.

Actually, no. Mercedes Benz doesn't use a magnet on either the drain plug or trans pan.

urbanski
11-03-06, 05:42 PM
our Vs trans dont come stock with magnetic plugs, but you can buy them. my diff and oil pan have them, and trust me, every one of my first few changes had feathery metal galore! :p

dp102288
11-03-06, 09:12 PM
^^ Good. Something that actually works.

Submariner409
11-04-06, 05:14 PM
:bigroll: Magnets in the drain plugs (trans, engine) will catch some of the larger junk, but I would really worry if there was ANY appreciable ferrous junk sloshing around in either sump. Magnets on the fuel lines and fuel filter, when properly aligned with the flow of Marvel Mystery Oil and vaporized Seafoam, will cause considerable boosts in your cash flow, leading to octane deprivation, which keeps your rocket grounded. Better to grease the inside of the fuel lnes with snake oil to increase flow. Keep your baby oiled and tuned, and she'll perform well for a long, long time.......:rolleyes:

Ranger
11-04-06, 05:28 PM
:bigroll: Magnets in the drain plugs (trans, engine) will catch some of the larger junk, but I would really worry if there was ANY appreciable ferrous junk sloshing around in either sump.

Haven't you ever dropped a trans pan? The magnets in the pan usually have a 1/2" thick load of magnetic mush on them. Looks like silver paint with the consitancy of mayo.

dkozloski
11-04-06, 07:14 PM
Haven't you ever dropped a trans pan? The magnets in the pan usually have a 1/2" thick load of magnetic mush on them. Looks like silver paint with the consitancy of mayo.
What makes your day is when you find a tooth or two stuck to the magnet that didn't go through between the gears and split the case. Drain plug magnets are an absolute requirement in manual transmissions.

1997BlackETC
11-05-06, 12:47 AM
Just saw a magnet on ebay that mounts on the side of people heads, says it make smarter? Anybody know if these work:bighead:

dp102288
11-05-06, 12:31 PM
^^ Pretty sure no. :)

I will look into some magnetic plugs for my car now.

Submariner409
11-05-06, 06:30 PM
:alchi: Absolutely no doubt in my mind that magnetic drain plugs are worth their weight in gold.....I said something like..."if I found any appreciable ferrous" stuff stuck to a plug, I'd worry. (Hopefully not gear teeth, and, yes, trans pan magnets are there for Ranger's reason.) The marketed "FilterMag" works the same way.....