: Timing Belt Replacement



klm
10-17-06, 04:24 PM
OK, I'm ready to start the job of replacing the timing belt next week. I have the alignment tool and the parts. I will also replace the heater control valve since it's leaking a little, the serpentine belt, plenum gaskets and the water pump while the plenum is off.

I've decided to leave the tensioner alone which is the official GM replacement done at the recall rather than take a chance with aftermarket. I'll give it a good look and replace it if I see or feel any indication of wear.

I would love to hear any stories about things to look out for or tricks to make it easier. I have to admit, I'm a little concerned about a belt that requires such precision settings. I've done 4 or 5 belts with no problems just eyeballing the timing marks, but you guys have me scared.

I already have the service manual, so I don't need any quotes from there. I am really looking for insight.

All comments welcome.

Thanks
KLM

Warez
10-17-06, 06:04 PM
How much did you pay for the tools and belt?

Also what recall are you referring to?

klm
10-17-06, 09:28 PM
Belt was $62 at Rockauto for the Delco. The Gates was $47.
Pump was $68, Sepentine belt $41, Plenum gasket $22, Throttle body gasket $3. They did not have the HCV, so I had to pay the stealership $85 for that.

The tool is a Laser Tools 3302 and it costs 65 GBP in the UK (about $125 US) The shipping was too expensive so I had it shipped to a friend in the UK and he will forward it to me. But then I had to add 11 GBP for VAT (value added tax) since it was shipping in the UK. Total with VAT is about $150 but I will have to pay another few bucks to get it here. I got it at Toolbaybiz.com.

Best I saw in the states was $300 for the Baum 4145 tool (also distributed by Snap-on, same tool). I could not find the Laser tool in the US.

Warez
10-17-06, 10:57 PM
I know that there was some recall for the 1997-99 cars where the timing belt, tensioner and water pump were replaced. But I was to aware of anything for the 2000 year regarding the tensioner. Could you giv eme some more info on this.

klm
10-18-06, 07:32 AM
Yes, mine got the tensioner and belt replaced on recall. Not the water pump.

klm
10-18-06, 02:03 PM
Has no one ever done this? Let's hear your story so we can learn from the experience.

Warez
10-22-06, 03:23 AM
I'm planning to change the belt myself next spring, would you be interested in renting the tool out?

klm
10-23-06, 10:03 AM
Sure. Give me a shout when your ready.

klm
10-28-06, 06:33 PM
Come on guys. Don't leave a guy hanging. I try to pass on my
experiences. So what do you know about this job. Someone must have done it.

I have everything apart (plenum, timing belt cover, resonator etc.) and am just waiting for the tensioner and idlers to come in on Wednesday. I've taken off the water pump and replaced the HCV.

At this point I have a couple of issues.

I noticed some crappy water and residue around the water pump and thermostat housing. Not sure if it goes all the way back to the oil cooler. Pump was definitely leaking (it was the gm recall replacement with the brown seals) but it is lower than the top of the engine, so I'm pretty sure
that either the thermostat housing or the oil cooler is also leaking.
Is there any way to tell without taking off the intake manifold?

If I need to do that, I will need to relieve the pressure from the
fuel line. Are there any cheap tools out there to do that or do I
need to get a pressure tester ($$) with a bleeder valve?

I also have two specific questions

What type of sealer should I use for the water pump instead of
the GM stuff.

Does anyone know the correct size star socket for the crank
shaft bolt used for rotating the engine?

Thanks. I'm sure somebody will come through with some info.

Warez
10-29-06, 01:05 AM
You are probably the first person on here to do this themself, so you're not likely to find much help here.

Register on the UK forums and you're likely to find the answers you're looking for:

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk

Also check the How to sections:

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=82

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Good luck!

klm
10-31-06, 08:48 AM
I think you are right. I didn't get any real responses here, so I guess there are not many folks who do thier own work on this board. I have had a ton of conversations at the yahoo site, and am progressing through the job.

So far I have removed the resonator, crossover pipe, water pump, plenum, serpentine tensioner, timing belt cover, timing belt, idlers, tensioner, intake manifold, catalytitic converter, Oil filter canister, oil cooler lines, oil cooler air duct grille, and HCV. I have all the parts, timing belt, idlers, tensioner, serpentine belt, plenum gaskets, thermostat, water pump, various seals and a bunch of new tools that I did not have (alignment tool, E20 star socket and T60 torx (niether were in my set), 17mm crows foot, fuel line pressure tester (to relieve pressure). So far $800, but all this would have cost well over $1,500 to get done.

I am still not sure if I will replace the oil cooler or just re-seal. It is in perfect condition. Does anyone know the failure mode for this. I heard from a Saturn mechanic that usually it is stripped threads that cause failure, not the o/c itself. Any comments would be welcome.

I will continue to check in from time to time, as I have found a lot of good info here, but I think I will move over to the yahoo site for detailed repair info. I am RYDREW55 over there.

BTW, I still think the Catera is an awsome ride for the money, despite the extra care required to keep it up. This is true for any high end car.

Thanks and good luck.

KLM

ajohnson57
10-31-06, 08:55 PM
Greetings, I have been away from this site for several months. Purchased a new "Old" 1994 Jag XJS 6 cylinder for the wife. Her "Other" car is our 1997 Catera. Some of you will recall that we blew the belt and had to replace all the intake valves, the belt and all the associated items.

Point one: My son, a extremely talented mechanic from watercraft/snowmachines up to his profession of Powerhouse diesel engines (7000 hp), found that the belt being broken, made the special tools mute. The replacement belt has all the markings inside for alingnment. He didn't have a problem with the repairs. Fortunately, the pistons were not damaged with the valves hitting them.

One has to be careful and turn the engine over one full revolution to assure that the marking points are correct.
He did comment that this engine room is the most restricted area for working in he had come across.
Point two- I can not speak enough to the good service and prices that Rock Auto provides.
Good luck on your repairs, until we purchased the Jag, we were convinced about selling the Catera, but with the back up we will keep it.
AMJ

guardian
10-31-06, 10:35 PM
. . . . . Point one: My son, an extremely talented mechanic from watercraft/snowmachines up to his profession of Powerhouse diesel engines (7000 hp), found that the belt being broken, made the special tools mute (sic). The replacement belt has all the markings inside for alingnment. He didn't have a problem with the repairs . . . . . AMJ

Well stated indeed! I could not have said this better myself, and I didn't.

I tried about three weeks ago:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/86695-timing-belt-replacement.html

but I didn't.

Twenty four valves, all those springs pushing back on the well-lubricated cam lobes of four independent, freely-rotating cams:

Yup, for sure I would need to use the timing tool.

Granted with your son's skillset I would not need it.

Hope so, but am not sure for me that day will ever come. Better for someone like me, a person lacking your son's mechanical experience and talent, to use the tool and get the cam timing PRECISELY right.

Because without exception that's how it must be. There is not the tiniest room or margin for error.

Budman8Fan
11-01-06, 03:01 PM
I just finished a timing belt replacement and did not have the proper tools. The way I did it was to line up the cam timing marks with the cuts in the timing cover with the crank in the top dead center position for #1 cylinder then installed the belt with the timing marks on the belt with the ones on the pulleys and crank. There are two adjustment pulleys and one tentioner puller. I set each adjuster pulley about half adjustment and then rotated the crank several times and then lined up the marks again. I took several times moving the adjuster pulleys but eventually got them to line up. Don't worry if the timing marks on the belt dont line back up after turning the crank, they will not.

I was pretty nervous when I went to start it but it fired up a soon as the fuel pressure was there. I did take some time for the lifters to pump up, a worrysome clicking!

A couple of tips, the oil capacity is six quarts and there is a vacuum hose at the rear of the pleneum that does not connect to any thing, this may save some time when going back together. I spent considerable time figuring this out.

FYI if the belt slipped while running you will need to pull the heads and have them checked. Mine bent all the intake valves
Good luck, I'll check back for a progress report

sirmqc
02-13-07, 04:32 PM
KLM, I'm looking to tackle this job soon. How did this turn out - everything went well I hope?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on a do-it-yourselfer trying this, or anyone else thats done this job.

Budman8Fan
02-13-07, 05:14 PM
I would suggest buying the timing belt kit from the dealership. It will be the updated model used for the recalls. It will come with a new waterpump aswell. If you are pulling the heads due to damage, I would also replace the oil cooler (a major source of coolant leaks), which is located under the intake manifold.

Marks DTM Calib
02-14-07, 02:34 AM
You cannnot change the belt without the correct tools and get it right.....do not try to convince yourself otherwise!

The cams are degreed to the crank on this engine which requires at least the timing tool for the cam markings (back plate markings are a rough guide and generaly a mile out). If they are not set right you cannot get the belt tension correct......you also MUST never do this with the spark plugs removed.

In the UK we have produced a DVD so DIYers can do this job......as its not hard.

Catera10
02-14-07, 03:28 PM
You cannnot change the belt without the correct tools and get it right.....do not try to convince yourself otherwise!

The cams are degreed to the crank on this engine which requires at least the timing tool for the cam markings (back plate markings are a rough guide and generaly a mile out). If they are not set right you cannot get the belt tension correct......you also MUST never do this with the spark plugs removed.

In the UK we have produced a DVD so DIYers can do this job......as its not hard.

Not that I intend to remove the plugs, but why do you say that you must never do this job with the plugs removed?

BTW, I'm having a difficult time finding the Baum 4145 tool kit. Baum says they are backordered and won't have any more for 2-3 weeks. The only option appears to be the GM kit (at about 2x the price of the Baum kit). Is there a third option?

TIA for your reply.

barryr
02-14-07, 07:17 PM
I have a 2000 Sport. Did the belt job myself then found out that the dealer had it and the water pump tensioner as an open recall. I've been wrenching for 35 years and found the job tedious but not that difficult. I was able to take it apart without pulling the plenum or throttle body off, had to work at getting the cover off but if you pull serp belt tensioner on the left side (two bolts used box end wrench for the top one) you can pull the cover forward and slowly and carefully rotate it clockwise it will pop off. I did mine without the special tools, used mechanics wire to hold the cams in place, and a piece of angle iron from the crank to water pump. It worked well and was in perfect time when I took it in to the dealer to have them do the water pump tensioner recall and put a new belt on it. The actually rebated what I paid for the belt as I didn't know abt the recall. The whole job took me under 3 hours and that was two days after XMAS and I live in Michigan..
Good Luck !!:)

Marks DTM Calib
02-15-07, 02:18 AM
We buy a Sykes Pickavant kit in the uk for about 60 quid...

As for the spark plugs, the compression affects the cam and crank loading and hence also pushes the timing and tension out...

The process is along this line:

Remove inlet trunking
Remove sesondary air injection pipe and one way valve.
Loosen the water pump and power steering pump bolts
Remove aux belt
Remove cable from cable tray and detach cable tray from cam belt cover.
Remove aux belt tensioner
Remove water pump and power steering pump pullies
Remove crank pulley
Remove cambelt cover

Change belt, a tip is to set lower right pulley so the offset is pointing towards approx 3 Oclock and upper to about 12 Oclock. Fit belt and set tension to appox 5mm above the tension mark.

Catera10
02-15-07, 08:51 AM
As for the spark plugs, the compression affects the cam and crank loading and hence also pushes the timing and tension out...

That makes sense, thanks.

babytf
03-05-07, 06:24 PM
please help i don't have service manuals and i am replacing the third cam gear it has two notches which do i set the timing to?

Marks DTM Calib
03-06-07, 02:31 AM
Third cam gear.....No 3......the cam sprockets should read 1-2-3-4 from left to right on the alignment pegs....the same goes for the timing marks when setting up.

babytf
03-07-07, 08:11 PM
still not 100% clear what you mean and i messed up i'm replacing the 4th gear.got the part in today but the notches are still confusing.could someone break down the procedure for me i have the old belt off it broke.put the gear on but don't know if mark meant where the big # is or should it be the notches match up to the notch where there is like a 3,then a 4 together then match up the notch to the gear number.

Marks DTM Calib
03-08-07, 02:39 AM
Is this of use:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/S_6_10.jpg

F3373 gives the best clue as it shows the cam numerbings (i.e. 1 through 4)

babytf
03-08-07, 07:43 PM
this helps but what i don't know is to what notch because there are two notches close together on 3 and on 4 so which notch on each do i use?

barryr
03-09-07, 06:29 PM
The bigger notch is 3 smaller notch is 4. alldata.com has good info for most procedures for the catara, worth the $15.00 per year to acces.

babytf
03-11-07, 04:27 PM
a shop owner i know got me the info too.thanks for ur help unfortunately i think the guy may have dropped a bolt down into the number two cam and this is ultimately how the cam sprocket broke,bent a bolt and broke the belt in the first place of course he denies it.the car turns over but wont start and there is abackfire so it's still missing but the #2 cam gear is turning funny like its a lot of play in it.what do u think about this ?i'm supposed to take it to a caddy shop this week and see if it can be saved or do i have to buy another engine.