: How do you Northstar owners like your Northstars? Would you recommend them?



I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 03:27 PM
I'm on the fence about the Northstar. On one hand, it's fun to drive, fast, with an awesome sounding exhaust note, it's advanced, modern, smooth, fuel efficent and quiet at idle or at a steady cruise. On the other hand, it's high maintenance, hard to work on, expensive to repair and troublesome.

Do the positives balance or outweigh the negatives?

I've driven about 4 Northstar Cadillacs (94 SLS, 95 Eldorado, 99 deVille Concours, 97 deVille, and there may be some more I don't remember) and I've always been impressed with how that motor works. Good power down low, awesome power above 3500 RPM! When that motor kicks in, it's awesome! It's fun to drive, heck ya! But is it awesome to own and live with, or is it really as high maintenance and expensive as everyone says?

I have a few questions regarding the Northstar:

How many of you have had your headgaskets replaced?
What is the cost to have that job done on a 1993-99 Northstar?

How many of you have that "oil consumption" problem?
Is it a problem?
How many quarts of oil do you have to put in between oil changes?

How many of you have had starter/alternator problems?
What does it cost to replace one of those?

Is the motor as hard to work on as everyone (GM technicians incuded) says?

What other problems are common?

Do the positives outweigh the negatives or is it the other way around?

Would you recommend a Northstar powered Cadillac to someone who is used to relatively trouble free cars?

Cadillacboy
09-22-06, 03:46 PM
Yes, I can highly speak well of NS especially from '00 and up .In my previous ride '96 burning oil,proclivity to overheating,smelling coolant out of exhaust .I also experienced some hard starting issues .
My inference from other people saying is that even the most problematic NS still beats HT4100 at least in terms if performance .I knew that NS was still a great engine and without any hesitation I picked up another NS after getting rid of that car
My current car is perfect and making me smile each time I start the engine . I hope this will continue .
Please be careful 'bout coolant , otherwise this might turn you back in expensive repair costs .
However if you still have some worries and concerns I can recommend you a Fleetwood wih LT1 engine .

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 03:58 PM
With coolant, do you need to flush it every two years like you do on the 4.9? I had my coolant flushed last week because I've owned the car 21 months now, and for what ever reason, I noticed an increase in average MPG. I usually drive 180-190 miles in a week, mainly to work and class and back, well usually I'd get about 13.5 MPG, this last week I got 14.3 MPG.

Was there a "better" Northstar? By my understanding, the Northstar was improved and refined in 2000 so among other things, it could run on 87 octane? Was the reliablility and durability improved in '00? The only '00+ Cadillac I like is the Eldorado, and those are a little bit out of my price range now.

It's funny that you mention the LT1 Fleetwood. That's the other newer Cadillac I'm really considering. Well, that and the '91-'92 Brougham D'Elegance 5.7, but I can't find a lot with the D'Elegance package AND the 5.7 V8. I had an LT1 Roadmaster. I miss the power and the RWD layout.

Cadillacboy
09-22-06, 04:27 PM
Flushing the coolant seems crucial to mainly any aluminum block engine .Last week I was at MB dealer and talked about reflushing the coolant.Technician told me that it would be better to reflush the coolant every 3 years if we want a healty engine and radiator .
I don't remember though we reflushed coolant in our Jags .However maintenance wins always :thumbsup:
It's interesting flushing the coolant has to do with the MPG ,I didn't realize that but that's good news .I am sure other gurus would know better for it
Yes, you can use lower octane from '00 and up NS but I still run premium .Because as far as I know , all major gasoline firms put their best additives in their premium products which's very healty to engine .
I had been on the fence what to choose a '96 FB or '00 STS but I picked up STS and very happy with my decision so far so great :) .However I would like to own a FB as well .
I think durability and reliability improved from '00 and up to my experience because I am glad I have a trouble free car

tman2093
09-22-06, 04:34 PM
While mostly unrelated to the northstar, the fact that you have a caddy makes you cool. From my friends I've had nothing but compliments ranging from "dude you have a really nice car" to "dude that car is sick" These reactions offset any extra work I have to do to maintain my N*, it's like having a really, really hot girlfrined that isn't interested in anyone else, makes all your friends jealous and lets you have guy time, but requires lots of money to spend. If you like what your doing, and your willing to pay the price, why not? :)

The Northstar gets a bad rep from the posts here, I challenge you to find a post where somebody says, "My headgaskets are fine, lucky me, whats my problem, why arent they leaking yet?" People only post when there is problems. Same thing happened with Apple's iPod nano, everyone got them but then 20% broke and people complained, the media ignored the 805 that had perfectly fine iPods.

Long story short is that the Northstar is awesome, especially when you love the car it's attatched to :)

Edited because I suck at typing...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 04:53 PM
Well I suppose..but the Intech is almost the same performance wise as the Northstar, doesn't have the headgasket or "oil consumption" problem and is more modifiable and sits north to south to power the rear wheels in the VIII!

Which brings up another good point. Between a better looking "less reliable" Northstar '98 DeVille Concours and a less beautifiul, more reliable Intech '98 Continental, I'd take the Concours if it was in good enough condition and didn't have any (major) problems.

Ranger
09-22-06, 08:03 PM
My '97 Deville had 107K when I sold it. Never had a problem with the engine other than a misfire after the fuel rail recall. Plugs & wires cured it and where very easy to do.

Never had a head gasket problem, but if you do it runs about $3000 because the drivetrain must be dropped.

Oil consumption is not a problem. Check out the Technical Archives, top left of this page.

Never had to R & R a starter or alternator. Start is easy. Alternator is another story.

Somethings (head gaskets) are hard to work on, others (water pump) are easy, but overall, my expirience is that they are very reliable. Takes a beating and keeps on ticking.

I'd say positives (great power, great milage) outway the negatives (possible head gasket problems, see Tmans post).

eldorado1
09-22-06, 08:46 PM
See my subtitle thing. ;)

The only way I would improve upon it would be Eagle rods, Ross pistons, and a turbocharger. 500hp on 7psi... but heck, a stock engine could take 7psi, I'd go for 15. ;)

Timeserts so I never have to worry about failures...

codewize
09-22-06, 08:46 PM
I did not take the time to read all of the post in their entirety so I'll just post what I know.

Head Gasket on a Northstar will run between $3000 and $4000. I think. Mine has not been done at 37,000

Oil consumption varies. I'm on the high side using about 1 quart every 1500 to 2000 miles.

Don't buy a Northstar if you're not going to drive it. Putting around town will ruin the engine.

Keeping the coolant changed is a good way to prevent HG failure. It's not a guarantee but old coolant is the one thing we know will cause premature failure. Recommended duration is 5 years or 150,000 miles with DexCool.

As far as mileage is concerned the Northstar is NOT good at all on fuel in the city. Stop and go kills the economy. The engine was designed for the open road, where you will get good mileage.

Conclusion: The Northstar is a very dependable engine when properly maintained. They can be costly to repair but the only major thing that's consistent is the HG problem.

fpmesiIII
09-22-06, 09:09 PM
once you go northstar you dont go back. i just love the way it hums along, nothing like the feel of a V8 aluminum engine. so smooth and refined.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 09:14 PM
Sounds kinda like the 4.9 than Codewize. Headgaskets on a 4.9 will run around $1500 atleast. I've never had a problem with mine, it's never, ever had the "Stop! Engine Temp" light come on, but I did have a problem with the coolant leaking out, but that ended after my waterpump was replaced. Also, like the 4.9, the Northstar needs the coolant flush to stay in good health, but the Northstar uses the more advanced DexCool which has a life of 5 years, the 4.9's coolant needs to be flushed every two years.

I tend to be aggressive with my cars every so often. I don't do it all the time with my 4.9 anymore because frankly, I got bored with it. I figure that a Northstar would be a much more fun engine ;)
What kind of mileage does a N* get in mostly city driving? I'd think something around 15-16. I hear on the highway, in good tune, they'll get 27-28MPG.

Basically, what I've learned is that the Northstar is a great motor when you take care of it, and run it aggressively. If the previous owner didn't take car of it by neglecting the coolant flushes and the aggressive driving, you're gonna have hell to pay.

white97deville
09-22-06, 09:54 PM
In mostly city driving my '97 Deville gets 18-21 mpg. All highway 23-28 mpg. I've had a Deville with the 4.9 also ('94). It was also a very nice car but the engine doesn't even compare. I'd much rather have the Nstar even after going through the Headgasket/Timesert repair job.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 10:10 PM
I'd much rather have the Nstar even after going through the Headgasket/Timesert repair job.

Wow! Really? That means a lot!

There are five high performance engines in the cars I'm looking at now.
The Northstar, the Intech, the 5.9 V8 in the Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited, the 5.7 LT1 in the Brougham and the S/C 3800 in the Regal GS, Park Ave Ultra and GTP. Now the Northstar is the most advanced and it's got the highest horsepower, but it's the most "needy" of the four with the most expensive problems. The Intech is like the Northstar, but isn't as advanced or award winning, but it's got a lot of aftermarket support and it's more reliable. The 5.9 is a throwback to the muscle car days, it's got the most torque and the most cubic inches, with a ton of after market support, but it's a total gas hog at 13 city/ 17 highway. The S/C 3800 is a great motor too, time tested, very reliable, but it's very old tech, and I kind of think of it as a "cheater motor"...but the forced induction is part of the appeal. And the LT1 is a lot like the 5.9, but it gets great mileage on the open road, and it's got that damned Optispark.. $400 distributor change, but granted it'll last 150k miles atleast, but other than that, it's an extremely reliable V8, and the other drawback is that I've already owned an LT1 and I want something new.

white97deville
09-22-06, 10:37 PM
All of the cars/engines that you listed are proven great performers. All of them also have some expensive things to maintain about them. In the case of the Jeep it is gas mileage, the Intech engine will be in a car with an expensive air suspension, etc. for each.

Decide what you want in a car and then choose the car/engine combination that is closest to that goal. Each is distinctive in its own special way. Love them all but buy one and maintain it. You will probably spend about the same amount of money on each one over a couple of years to maintain if you do your own wrenching.

As for me, my actions will be speaking for themselves. I own a '97 Deville, a '93 Mark VIII, and a 1984 Mustang. I love the Nstar and it is my daily driver. The Mustang is in the garage awaiting new engine/transmission...it is part of my family...bought it new in High School. And lastly I love the DOHC 4.6 in the Mark VIII. I bought the car specifically for three reasons: 1) For a daily driver while the Caddy was down awaiting me to repair the Headgaskets. 2) to supply the engine/tranny for the Mustang. 3) At $600 it was dirt cheap although it has suspension and other problems.

I really have grown to like the DOHC V8 engines.

codewize
09-22-06, 10:52 PM
That mileage sounds about right. I see around 17 city and 25ish hi-way. Yes the Northstar is one hell of an engine from many perspectives.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-22-06, 10:56 PM
17 city isn't bad at all. I get 13-14 now, but I got 16-17 when I first got it. On the open road, I'll get 23-25 depending on speed. At a steady 80, it's 23MPG; 75MPH, it's about 24MPG and at 70 (and 55MPH) it's 25MPG.

Mountie
09-23-06, 12:30 AM
The #1 issue I noticed on my '93 Northstar, was when I replaced it. ( I bought the STS with a spun rod bearing - Why it spun? I don't know.)
But I noticed the extremities were damaged from heat. Not much room under that hood.
I replaced / restored EVERYTHING.

The car has not had one glitch since I first started it last year.

It gets 15 to 18MPG city, & I drove from Southern California up to San Francisco at 80 MPH, and got 26 MPG on the 360 mile trip.

JohnnyO
09-23-06, 07:25 AM
No major problems with either, other than the '99 burns oil (but no leaks). I'd recommend a 2000-up though, many less reports of oil burning, leaks, and head gasket problems. Not running the coolant too long is critical for head gasket life. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I bet on a lot of engines with HG failure the owner never changed the coolant.

Frost
09-23-06, 07:48 AM
17 mpg city and 25 hwy, so that's about right. 1997 Deville with 100K on it. Very happy so far. When I went with synthetic oil, the consumption stopped dead - don't even need a top-up.

110% recommendation from this end, guys!

kc3smith
09-23-06, 08:11 AM
I just sold a 2003 SLS in favor of the CTS-V. Oil consumption was not a problem, but it was run hard. When purchased, Service Manager told us that the oil consumption problem was the worst on cars that never saw more than 3000 RPM. The carbon would build up and cause the rings to stick. Taking it to redline at least once a day, sold with 78,000 miles, never used more than .5 qt. every 5,000 miles.

Problems that we did have were torque converter failure, $2000.00, and front hydraulic engine mount, $450.00. Overall, not a bad engine.

The coolant change advice that I have seen is valid. Change the coolant every 2-3 years.

AlBundy
09-23-06, 01:51 PM
1996ESC. No problems at all even the oil burning issues. Had it going on a year now, no complaints. Good looking and exciting to drive not to mention the luxuries.

GreenMachine
09-23-06, 02:23 PM
My 98 now that I have new plugs and replaced a wire that was giving my misfires from a carbon track, runs great.

In situations where I catch every light, then get stuck 10 cars back and another only to get stuck at that light too, I can see my MPG drop from the normal 15+ suburban driving (up to 17) to mid to low 14's and in rare occasions 13, that's the stop and go stuff and in the winter that's not uncommon when someone spins out and your stuck there for 20-30mins bring that average down and down. You will get no economy from any car in those situations so why not enjoy a nice warm heated seat, great radio, plenty of room, while you wait for the accident to be cleared and the cars to be unstuck :)

We all know the highway MPG on this V8's are pretty good, 70-85 both ways on my trip to kentucky were nearly 25mpg and I could've gotten better but its to much fun to not throttle her up to pass the big rigs from time to time :)

To date the most expensive repair was the water pump, and if I had a better idea of how to change it when it happened I would have saved myself a load of money.

That is followed by a repair to the memory seat module where my father and I were taken for a ride (took the "experts" 4 hours & 85 bucks, something fishy about that one, should have just went to the dealer).

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Northstar is a high maintenance engine or less reliable than the others.

From any mechanic I talk to they say the northstars will keep running and running even when they are falling apart and 3qts low, heck even has camel mode to get you home :)

Members of this board are a testament to how long that engine runs, many have gone passed the 150,000 mile mark and other have gone well beyond 200,000.

My 98 is approaching the 100,000mile mark it really hasn't asked for much more than the coolant change (went ahead a did is this summer since 5 years is passed) and oil changes along the way.

Ranger
09-23-06, 04:03 PM
"Members of this board are a testament to how long that engine runs, many have gone passed the 150,000 mile mark and other have gone well beyond 200,000."

I have seen a few over 300K.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-23-06, 04:57 PM
Well thanks for all the responces folks! I think we should make this a sticky for all potential Northstar owners to look at!

Lord Cadillac
09-23-06, 07:17 PM
I personally love the Northstar.. It never gave me any problems other than a little oil consumption - no big deal. A quart low at every change. I never had a starter/alternator problem. I feel the Northstar is trouble-free as long as the cooling maintenance has been taken care of. I've mentioned it in other threads - but I owned a 95 ETC with 110,000 miles that ran like BRAND new. And I mean BRAND new. No stutters, hesitations - nothing. Very powerful. It was really amazing. Several years after that, I drove my Brother-in-law's 97 STS with 160,000 miles and it felt exactly the same... How often do you here that?



I have a few questions regarding the Northstar:

How many of you have had your headgaskets replaced?
What is the cost to have that job done on a 1993-99 Northstar?

How many of you have that "oil consumption" problem?
Is it a problem?
How many quarts of oil do you have to put in between oil changes?

How many of you have had starter/alternator problems?
What does it cost to replace one of those?

Is the motor as hard to work on as everyone (GM technicians incuded) says?

What other problems are common?

Do the positives outweigh the negatives or is it the other way around?

Would you recommend a Northstar powered Cadillac to someone who is used to relatively trouble free cars?

6V92TA
09-23-06, 09:15 PM
As a new Caddie owner,what's something i should expect outta my Northstar? Right now it idles a bit ruff and when i push gently on the pedal for a slow start,it serges a bit. Is this a fuel filter problem or somethin? Dealer guy said the original motor in the car blew up and another one was dropped in with 77,000 miles on it. Will i expect my "new" motor to jus go crazy soon? One other thing,Yalls know the legendary noise all Chrysler 300Ms from 1997 or so and up including the Concordes and LHS's do when idleing,a smooth kinda metal hissing noise or whatever? My Caddie's doing that noise and a mechanic stated it was either a water pump going bad or an air compressor or pully jus makin noise. Do the 94 Devilles have air shock BTW or that neat Air ride suspension early 90s Lincoln Continentals have?

Ranger
09-23-06, 09:46 PM
Yes, you have air shocks in the rear aka ELC (Eelectronic Level Control).

'94 used green coolant. It needs to be changed every 2 years. Be sure you do it. It is essential for healthy head gaskets.

Roughness might be plugs, wires, FPR leaking, TB and/or EGR valve in need of cleaning.

6V92TA
09-23-06, 09:51 PM
WOOT!! That i will do.ill get everything you listed checked out next week.

Mountie
09-23-06, 10:13 PM
Rough at idle & at slow start, seems like the EGR is in need of cleaning.

Very common in most every vehicle, that it should be a maintenance item.

It should be cleaned when troublshooting.

codewize
09-23-06, 10:42 PM
Ok I searched quick but didn't find anything except thread on how and when to clean a Volant filter.

How do you clean the ERG. Where is it on the DTS and what are the steps?

Thanks

Haleykeek
09-23-06, 11:12 PM
i have a 1994 Seville STS.the only problem i have had with it,and yes it's northstar powered(not a chevy pushrod motor in this one),is that it has a small oil leak on it somewhere.other than that,it's strong,and runs hard.it'll bark the tires in second gear under "hard acceleration",leaving those "sorry Lincoln Mark VIII's" in the dust.i have a nice set of low restriction turbo-mufflers on it,and it sounds deep.try driving the ETC or the STS versions of the North* Motor.they have more power than their cousins.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-06, 01:04 AM
Well my 1st choice in a Northstar Cadillac would be a '97-99 DeVille Concours. Choice #2 would be a 96-02 Eldorado Touring Coupe. Choice #3 would be a.. I'm not sure..

6V92TA
09-24-06, 05:31 AM
Third choice should be a 93 Fleetwood Broham (i like spelling it that way). Once you get wiff of the LT1,everything else will be second to none.

6V92TA
09-24-06, 05:33 AM
Rough at idle & at slow start, seems like the EGR is in need of cleaning.

Very common in most every vehicle, that it should be a maintenance item.

It should be cleaned when troublshooting.



Where is the EGR located and is it cleanable from the backyard or do i have to take it in to do that?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-06, 09:18 AM
Third choice should be a 93 Fleetwood Broham (i like spelling it that way). Once you get wiff of the LT1,everything else will be second to none.


Well the LT1 Brougham is one of my favorite Cadillacs of all time. It's probably #3 behind the '97-'99 Deville Concours and '96-'02 Eldorado. Oh and FWIW, the 94-96 Fleetwoods were the LT1's, the '93's were the older 185hp L05 5.7. And yes, I do know how great the LT1 is, I had it in a Roadmaster. :) :cool2:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-06, 09:25 AM
Let me explain this for everyone, let me know what you think.

The Fleetwood Brougham is a better looking car IMO than the DeVille Concours and Eldorado. When I see a LT1 FWB on the street, I'll instantly turn and stare at it, the Eldorado and DeVille Concours don't do that for me. One day, I looked at a '94 Fleetwood Brougham and a '95 Eldorado, and from what I saw, I actually liked the Eldorado more. Sure, the exterior isn't as nice, but the interior was much nicer and it had much better seats and the full instrumentation I like so much. I didn't get to drive the FWB, but I really liked that '95 Eldorado, even though it wasn't an ETC. Same with the '98 DeVille Concours I looked at. It's not as good looking as a FWB, but the interior is a lot nicer IMO and it's got a lot more gadgets, which is a very good thing. It probably drives a lot smaller and is a lot sportier though..

So would you guys go for a car that strikes your head (Eldorado, Concours) or the one that strikes your heart (Fleetwood) ?

Cadillacboy
09-24-06, 10:03 AM
Fleetwood Brougham is "The Cadillac of the Cadillacs" .Ok, you can tell me then why I picked up an STS instead.FB is a bit big boat to me considering it's 225 inches whereas STS is only 201 and I wouldn't trade my STS for latest model FB even although I love it so much .If you are same with me then get Concours D'elegance that's a closer car to FB .
However , I would like to buy a FB also but as a 2nd car .
Back to your question , I think you can modify a FB with LT1 engine that means so much higher HP and torque unlike NS . If you like mods then get a '94-96 Brougham .
I personally don't think that both Eldo and Deville wouldn't look more classier in both interior and exterior than FB .

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-06, 10:27 AM
I guess it depends on the color. A silver Eldorado or Concours I wouldn't look at, but if the Eldorado was that beautiful red color, I'd have to look twice. Same goes with a Concours in the right color. But the Concours and Eldorado have the better interior IMO over the FWB. Yes, it is a little on the large side, but to me, a Cadillac should be large and in charge! Besides, it's only 10" longer than my Roadmaster, and that's a size that most would scoff at! But the Roadmaster (and probably the FWB too) never felt as large as they looked. Heck, a '90s Town Car is 3" longer than my Roadmaster but it feels 3' longer sitting behind the wheel! Yes, you can mod an LT1 into the 500+ hp category very easily, but idk if I'd wanna spend all that money and have someone else do it considering I'm not very mechanically inclined.

Ranger
09-24-06, 11:35 AM
It's in the Tech Tips section.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/59077-how-clean-egr-valve.html

GreenMachine
09-24-06, 08:05 PM
Stock an LT1 Fleetwood would get eaten for breakfast by a base or Concurs Deville speed wise, might be a weight distance but all those fleetwoods are good for are cruising in class and comfort.

With that said the LT1 has aftermarket parts for just about anything and being RWD its much better setup for some hot roding, but if your going to stay stock the Northstar is the better choice.

The LT1 is short in the Horsepower department and upper end of its power band (basically it runs of out steam before the northstar does) but it has a lot of Torque to move that big car and would be fun to spin some tires with, I think that was pre-traction control (or optional) days so that could be a fun car to drive for sure. It was an engine made for a sports car so you can get it going on the highway but it simply runs out of steam moving all that steel when it was designed to move a small fiberglass vette :)

codewize
09-24-06, 09:08 PM
Fleetwood Brougham is "The Cadillac of the Cadillacs" .


No doubt. The Brougham is the definition of Cadillac by far. I love my DTS with all the toys because I'm a techie guy anyway, I love driving my STS equally as well but when it comes to the word 'Cadillac' The Brougham is the definition.

codewize
09-24-06, 09:09 PM
Thanks Ranger. I did search but this didn't come up. Does this hold true for OBDII cars? I guess if it still looks like that I'll find it. I'm going to be doing the Volant CAI soon so while that's out I'll clean the TB plate and bore along with the EGR.


It's in the Tech Tips section.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/59077-how-clean-egr-valve.html

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-06, 09:19 PM
Well the LT1 isn't bad at all, it just pales in comparison with the Northstar. The LT1 in my Roadmaster was much better in freeway acceleration than the 4.9 in my deVille is. The 0-100 in a 300hp Concours is around 19.5 seconds, the 0-100 in a LT1 Brougham is probably near 21-22 seconds. The 0-100 in my deVille is like 26 seconds.

In city driving, where I spend the most of my time, the LT1 would be more "fun" because there is a lot of power down low, but in the Northstar, you would always wanna go above 3500 RPM because that's where the fun starts. Not saying that the Northstar doesn't have power at low RPMs, but when you hit 3500RPM, it's like a turbo kicked in.

As far as spinning tires goes, it's not fun anymore, it's just an annoyance. That's definetly one benefit of the Northstar; traction control, less torque and equal length halfshafts to lessen torque steer and burnouts.

The Concours definetly has some other very practical benefits too. It's smaller, which means it's easier to park/manuver in the congested city streets and parking lots. It's FWD, so it's better in snow, and it's probably better on gas seeing as how it's like 400lbs lighter, with a smaller engine.

It's not so much of an old man's Cadillac either. It's got five place seating with a center console, floor shift and full instrumentation. I don't particularly want another 6 seater with zero instumentation. I like my gauges and never understood 6 seaters..who wants to sit in the front center? The Concours is definetly more European by design, but still destinctly American, the perfect compromise. Something that is forgotten in the newest Cadillacs...they're wanna be BMW's.

I like the '96-'02 Eldorados a lot too, but the Concours is a lot more practical. I like driving my friends and family around in Cadillac Style, with loads of room, and I don't think they would want to ride with me as much if my car wasn't an extremely roomy four door. It's a pain to try and get everyone in and out of a two door. But on the other hand, if they don't wanna ride in it, I won't have to drive as much, and it'll save me money on gas.

Between a '97-'99 DeVille Concours, '96-'02 Eldorado and LT1 Brougham, is there a huge difference in ride and handling? I'd imagine so between the Brougham and Eldo, but is it a big difference between the Brougham and Concours? How about the Eldo and Concours?

Ranger
09-24-06, 09:28 PM
Thanks Ranger. I did search but this didn't come up. Does this hold true for OBDII cars? I guess if it still looks like that I'll find it. I'm going to be doing the Volant CAI soon so while that's out I'll clean the TB plate and bore along with the EGR.
That is good for all Norhtstars, OBDI or OBDII.

davesdeville
09-25-06, 07:07 AM
I don't particularly want another 6 seater with zero instumentation. I like my gauges and never understood 6 seaters..who wants to sit in the front center?




I think you need to do some test driving if you're wondering about the Eldo vs Concours vs Fleetwood.

JimHare
09-25-06, 11:00 AM
I guess I'll chip in here, but don't have too much NEW to say - just affirmation of previous posts.

I've had a total of three caddys (99 Base Deville, and the two in my profile), with a total of about 150,000 miles of use on them.

The '99 had some problems, which were for the most part covered by the GMPP I got with it - alternator, radiator surge tank, AC Compressor. It stranded me once when the alternator blew.

The 02 Deville with 143K miles has been relatively good, with an AC Compressor (warranty), one front wheel bearing, and a window regulator needed; all in all fairly cheap on a cost-per-mile basis.

The 01 ETC has needed Zero - except for a battery that suffered a broken terminal but I can hardly blame that on the Northstar itself.

Both current cars get driven pretty hard, return very acceptable gas mileage (over 20 on both, combined driving) and burn very little oil. I think I put in a quart in the Deville about every 2500 miles, and the Eldo seems to burn about a cup full every 2000 miles or so.

Neither car drips anything but rain water on the ground.

Both of them have quiet, fast, luxurious rides and I am completely satisfied with both.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-25-06, 12:15 PM
I guess I'll chip in here, but don't have too much NEW to say - just affirmation of previous posts.

I've had a total of three caddys (99 Base Deville, and the two in my profile), with a total of about 150,000 miles of use on them.

The '99 had some problems, which were for the most part covered by the GMPP I got with it - alternator, radiator surge tank, AC Compressor. It stranded me once when the alternator blew.

The 02 Deville with 143K miles has been relatively good, with an AC Compressor (warranty), one front wheel bearing, and a window regulator needed; all in all fairly cheap on a cost-per-mile basis.

The 01 ETC has needed Zero - except for a battery that suffered a broken terminal but I can hardly blame that on the Northstar itself.

Both current cars get driven pretty hard, return very acceptable gas mileage (over 20 on both, combined driving) and burn very little oil. I think I put in a quart in the Deville about every 2500 miles, and the Eldo seems to burn about a cup full every 2000 miles or so.

Neither car drips anything but rain water on the ground.

Both of them have quiet, fast, luxurious rides and I am completely satisfied with both.

That sounds a lot like my 4.9. I need to add about a quart of oil between oil changes (3000-3800 miles) which is totally acceptable, reasonable and normal. It sounds as though the N* gets better mileage than the 4.9 too, although that's debatable. Like the N*, the 4.9 has some headgasket issues, and coolant flushes are imperative, and they have to be done every two-three years. Also, like the N*, prior owner maintance and upkeep is very crucial. If they didn't take good condition of either motor, the current owner is going to pay. I didn't know this when I bought my car, but luckily, the previous owners took very good care of it and I've had no major problems so far.

My '92 deVille has needed:
4 new struts: $320
Front brake job: $70
New Spark Plugs: $20
New Antenna mast: $36
Inner Tie Rod: $ 25
Alignment: $40
New Tranny filter: $20
New Serpentine Belt: 20
New #5 Injector: $129
Two new front tires: $120
New right front wheel bearing: $120
Bi-yearly coolant flush: $83

Grand total: $1003, and that's not including all the oil changes and stuff.

This winter, I plan on doing new wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, EGR service, having the interior shampooed and cleaned, and having a $250 CD changer installed, among whatever else pops up. I plan on keeping this car, even after I buy my next and using the '92 as the winter car.

Even with all of this stuff done, I'm still very satisfied with the reliability of my car. Right now the SES light is on for something dealing with the EGR valve, and that's gonna cost me, but I'm still happy with it. Keep in mind that all of this work has been done in the past 19 months and 27k miles. And the car is getting to the age where parts are gonna start to go out and need replacement and repair.


I think you need to do some test driving if you're wondering about the Eldo vs Concours vs Fleetwood.

I'd love to, but I don't wanna deal with all the sales people bullshit. I used to do that a lot, but I got sick of wasting all their time and patience.

jss
09-25-06, 01:51 PM
I have a 94 Seville with 184k miles.

Replaced headgasket at 88k miles in September 2002 for $1500.

She uses a quart and a half of oil over a 3000 mile interval. (she's always done that)

Replaced the alternator in 2003. You can buy one for about $100 aftermarket, or go to Cadillac and pay four times that.

No starter problems.

If the GM trained guys say they're hard to work on, then I believe them. The 'problem' I see with service is that precious few shops outside the outrageously expensive dealers will work on them.

I've read that the early Northstars (like mine) have an oil leak problem with something called an oil manfold gasket that will set you back about $1800. I had the dealer replace mine when he had the engine out - he said they do that automatically anyway. I've also had a PCM go out. You can get one for $200, but the problem is in diagnosing the problem. The dealer will run a couple of tests and then declare that you need both crankshaft position sensors, an ignition module and a PCM and that he can fix you up for $1500.

The day my beloved Seville gives up the ghost will be the day that I open up the paper to look for another six or eight year old Northstar powered Cadillac that I can afford (2000 or later). Mine's been the most reliable car I've ever owned and with a clear conscience I would recommend a Northstar powered Cadillac to someone who's accustomed to low maintenance vehicles.

GreenMachine
09-28-06, 02:10 AM
Well the LT1 isn't bad at all, it just pales in comparison with the Northstar. The LT1 in my Roadmaster was much better in freeway acceleration than the 4.9 in my deVille is. The 0-100 in a 300hp Concours is around 19.5 seconds, the 0-100 in a LT1 Brougham is probably near 21-22 seconds. The 0-100 in my deVille is like 26 seconds.

In city driving, where I spend the most of my time, the LT1 would be more "fun" because there is a lot of power down low, but in the Northstar, you would always wanna go above 3500 RPM because that's where the fun starts. Not saying that the Northstar doesn't have power at low RPMs, but when you hit 3500RPM, it's like a turbo kicked in.

As far as spinning tires goes, it's not fun anymore, it's just an annoyance. That's definetly one benefit of the Northstar; traction control, less torque and equal length halfshafts to lessen torque steer and burnouts.

The Concours definetly has some other very practical benefits too. It's smaller, which means it's easier to park/manuver in the congested city streets and parking lots. It's FWD, so it's better in snow, and it's probably better on gas seeing as how it's like 400lbs lighter, with a smaller engine.

It's not so much of an old man's Cadillac either. It's got five place seating with a center console, floor shift and full instrumentation. I don't particularly want another 6 seater with zero instumentation. I like my gauges and never understood 6 seaters..who wants to sit in the front center? The Concours is definetly more European by design, but still destinctly American, the perfect compromise. Something that is forgotten in the newest Cadillacs...they're wanna be BMW's.

I like the '96-'02 Eldorados a lot too, but the Concours is a lot more practical. I like driving my friends and family around in Cadillac Style, with loads of room, and I don't think they would want to ride with me as much if my car wasn't an extremely roomy four door. It's a pain to try and get everyone in and out of a two door. But on the other hand, if they don't wanna ride in it, I won't have to drive as much, and it'll save me money on gas.

Between a '97-'99 DeVille Concours, '96-'02 Eldorado and LT1 Brougham, is there a huge difference in ride and handling? I'd imagine so between the Brougham and Eldo, but is it a big difference between the Brougham and Concours? How about the Eldo and Concours?

Most of that holds true.

The northstar was "designed" with light touches at low rpms to have it smoothly get going, especially in Limo applications where it was needed to accelerate smoothly w/o spilling the clients drinks :)

I find that once you hit the 2000 RPM mark, its really moves, I can really feel it push me back into my seat there. I have the 300ft-lb version, the concurs 300hp might feel differant since its the high revver.

What this does is allows for gentle movement around those 30mph areas jumping from stop sign to stop sign, buy quick get up and go on the highway on ramps and passing...or other times when some throttle is nice to use.

As far as the 6 seaters go, that split bench isn't always ment to be used when at capacity, for me it allows the girls to get much closer than having the console in the middle :)

Ranger
09-28-06, 09:47 PM
Oooh Yeah. ;)

sts96
09-29-06, 08:40 PM
I like my northstars very much if not I would drive something else like a diesel. do I recommend them YES.
sts96

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-06, 08:44 PM
The main drawback to the Northstar is the total lack of aftermarket parts. The owner ignorance that causes the big, expensive problems is another story all together.


No, I don't mean that everyone that owns a Northstar is ignorant, I mean that those that don't take care of them are. But that goes for most anything in general.

davesdeville
09-30-06, 04:49 AM
If you want aftermarket parts, get a Mark VIII if you want a coupe, or an LT1 Fleetwood if you want a sedan. To me at least, it's just that simple. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-30-06, 02:16 PM
True, but a VIII will be horrible in the snow, and I'm not sure if I'd want somethng as big / unmodern as a Fleetwood.

I really like the S/C 3800 Park Avenue Ultras, GTP Sedans and Regals, but I don't like those as much as the Cadillacs.

bbbnickledimer
09-30-06, 02:59 PM
Personally I wouldnt buy a northstar I would get a ford modular motor instead.

But even then I would still buy a pushrod motor I would take a LSX series engine over any northstar any day

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-30-06, 03:04 PM
Well the Intech doesn't have as many "problems" as the N* does, but it is attached to a Ford product, and I generally hate Ford, but I like Lincoln. But the VIII would be horrible in Minnesota's snow, and the VIII has some tranny problems, and the air spring suspension is another story alltogether! (and an expensive one at that!)

AlBundy
09-30-06, 05:40 PM
Well the Intech doesn't have as many "problems" as the N* does, but it is attached to a Ford product, and I generally hate Ford, but I like Lincoln. But the VIII would be horrible in Minnesota's snow, and the VIII has some tranny problems, and the air spring suspension is another story alltogether! (and an expensive one at that!)

Go with the N*. If you have any problems I'm sure many here will help you through it. If it a HG well take up a collection.:thumbsup:

eldorado1
10-01-06, 08:32 AM
If it a HG well take up a collection.:thumbsup:

Hey, you know what? I was just thinking... They should offer car repair insurance. You know, pay them $20 a month, and if your engine explodes, they'll replace it for free.

aamusls06
10-01-06, 10:01 PM
Well, I love this Northstar I have. The only problem that I've had is a MAP Sensor and I haven't had a problem out of it since. I pop that MAP sensor on her and she runs like a dream now. I've put 11,000 miles(mostly highway, maybe 1000 city miles) on it since April when I bought it(113,000 miles when I bought her). It's addicting to have this car. Nice power, beautiful sound, and damn good gas mileage on the highway. Poor mileage in the city. I would really prefer to have that STS model because I would have revenge for my friend beating me with his Mustang, but forget that. I'll just come for him when I get through with my Trans Am and LS6 Engine project completed. But, I'm going to definately going to get my coolant flushed as soon as I can get back to Memphis to Bud Davis Cadillac.

I'll probably purchase a newer Cadillac when I am through with college. I'd be looking for '02 Cadillac Deville in 09...lol...

I hope I don't run into the headgasket problem anytime soon, but I'll just have to find a shop and get ready to turn a wrench.

Definately, the N* is a keeper.

Machster
10-02-06, 02:21 AM
I have a 2000 STS with 292,000 km. Have had it for 6 months now. Uses a "little" oil (not worried) But ... I have found when it is cold and my first move with the car is in reverse it will leak tranny fluid on the ground, and it's a little stream. Now I always park so I move forward first and no leaks. Any ideas? Here is another Good One! One time a couple months ago I thought I give her a top speed run. I got up to about 130 mph and it was very close to red line - about to shift, next thing it starts to vibrate like a bearing going bad. I let off on the throttle and the vibration/hum slowed down as it shifted but didn't go away. I put my foot back into it to see and the vibration came right back strong. I slowed down to a stop and it went away. It acts like an engine related problem that didn't like the extended time running at high rpm. It hasn't done it since then but I also haven't pushed it to that point. I have pushed it through the gears to around 80 mph and works fine. It was a very noticable vibration/hum, not just a little thing. Any thoughts? ... other than that - I LOVE my STS!

davesdeville
10-02-06, 07:16 AM
and the air spring suspension is another story alltogether! (and an expensive one at that!)

$300 and a couple hours of your time isn't really that expensive.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-02-06, 12:15 PM
$300 and a couple hours of your time isn't really that expensive.


True, but you went with the coil springs for a T-Bird/Cougar right?

What would it cost for 4 new air springs? I don't think installation would be too hard, so that would be possible to do at home.. Are four air springs for the VIII cheaper than the four electronic struts for an Eldorado?

codewize
10-02-06, 12:22 PM
I think we're getting off on a tangent. The question was regarding the Northstar as a engine NOT the cars they're in.

The Northstar is a great engine and to the best of my knowledge only has one major flaw and that's the head gasket thing. We all agree that following the proper maintenance schedule is the best preventative method in avoiding any problem, especially that one.

MAP sensor has nothing to do with the Northstar. That's a part on all cars and they do go bad. When you own something like a Northstar why do you want after market parts? There's no point. It's a world class engine, leave it alone.

And why on earth would you choose a Ford product over a Cadillac. Do you love electrical problems? Poor value retention? You think the Northstar is complex, have you ever tried to read a schematic for a Ford product.

Just wanted to reel everyone back in.

eldorado1
10-02-06, 12:28 PM
Just wanted to reel everyone back in.


This thread is stupid.

There! I said it! :bighead:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-02-06, 12:44 PM
The Northstar is a great engine and to the best of my knowledge only has one major flaw and that's the head gasket thing. We all agree that following the proper maintenance schedule is the best preventative method in avoiding any problem, especially that one.

Exactly.


When you own something like a Northstar why do you want after market parts? There's no point. It's a world class engine, leave it alone.

Make it faster! Eat an LT1 Camaro off the line!!

That's the thing about the N*, it's a lot like a German V8, high performance, smooth, high tech, reliable, but there's no aftermarket for it! Have you ever tried to buy go fast parts for the 4.2 DOHC V8 in the M-B S420s? There isn't any! It sucks!



And why on earth would you choose a Ford product over a Cadillac. Do you love electrical problems? Poor value retention?

RWD and aftermarket mainly is the reasoning behind the VIII.

codewize
10-02-06, 03:05 PM
Ok so there may be some need for aftermarket but if you designed an engine like that would you want people adding crap to it and playing with stuff?

The RWD I'll agree with, but nothing else.

AlBundy
10-02-06, 03:15 PM
This thread is stupid.

There! I said it! :bighead:


:histeric:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-02-06, 05:04 PM
Ok so there may be some need for aftermarket but if you designed an engine like that would you want people adding crap to it and playing with stuff?

I suppose.
Just out of curiosity, have you owned some Fords that have been total shit?

GreenMachine
10-02-06, 06:44 PM
In a FWD V8 Sedan there really isn't much room for aftermarket.

Now that the Northstar is in a RWD configuration (and for hot-rodders they've been doing stuff in RWD with it for awhile and putting parts on) you're seeing some aftermarket stuff for the current STS, SRX, XLR and the V-Series cars.

Most owners of 4000lb luxury sedans don't want to add aftermarket stuff since its a daily driver and needs to always be reliable. Nitros being the exception and people have proven the northstar likes a shot of that.

Now that you have the northstar attached to a Nurburgring tuned suspension and a 5/6speed "manumatic" transmisison you'll see more aftermarket as the developers see the market.

The eldorado being the exception, that's a caddy I wish had all sorts of aftermarket, but as seen on this board, nitrous can really add some pep.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-02-06, 08:07 PM
Well I believe in the FWD Intech Continental, you can use install the same supercharger that you can on the Mark VIII, I'm not positive on that though. If you could, it would make for some god awful torque steer!

GreenMachine
10-02-06, 09:36 PM
Well I believe in the FWD Intech Continental, you can use install the same supercharger that you can on the Mark VIII, I'm not positive on that though. If you could, it would make for some god awful torque steer!
Which is another thing the northstar system has been designed to lessen (equal sized halfshafts).

codewize
10-02-06, 10:07 PM
I never liked Ford product even as a kid. I think it's because my dad had Ford stuff and it was always broken. Then when I was younger I bought a 2 year old 1985 Continental Givenchy edition. Beautiful car, nice quiet ride, plenty of toys.

However the drivetrain was crap. 302 replaced the oil pump drive shaft 3 times. I got so fed up with the car I let it get repoed. The thing was a money pit.

After that I did some drywall work for a guy who traded me an 78 Coupe DeVille for the work. I haven't driven anything but Cadillac since and I'm happy. I liked the 78 better than I've ever liked any Lincoln. Dependable without a doubt.


I suppose.
Just out of curiosity, have you owned some Fords that have been total shit?

davesdeville
10-03-06, 08:56 PM
Well I believe in the FWD Intech Continental, you can use install the same supercharger that you can on the Mark VIII, I'm not positive on that though. If you could, it would make for some god awful torque steer!

The Mark VIIIs can run a 96-98 Cobra kit with some modification, from what I've seen it seems like it would take quite a bit more work on the Conti..

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-06, 09:18 PM
I never liked Ford product even as a kid. I think it's because my dad had Ford stuff and it was always broken.

Yup same here actually. The last Ford product my dad owned was a 1989 Taurus LX Wagon. It was a beautifiul, fully loaded, very luxurious wagon. He had many, many reoccuring problems, and lots of new ones in the three years that we owned it (1991-1994). When it was totaled due to some reckless kids behind the wheel of a Jeep Grand Wagoneer, he was very very glad it was gone! And after that he swore off Ford! He owned an '85 F-150 with the 4.9 I-6 for a year in '86-'87, he really liked that though, but he had to sell it to move into our first house shortly after I was born. His dislike in Ford is what made me a GM man. Before I had the Cadillac, I never considered purchasing any Lincoln, sans the '68-'76 Mark Series, but I knew I could never own one of those in my teenage years.

Even now, I hate Ford/Mercury, and I like some Lincolns, but not most of them.

GreenMachine
10-03-06, 10:41 PM
My dad had a huge 89 Lincoln town car, loved that it had rear seat reading lights.

Anyway towards the end of its life you needed to double to keep it running and the transmission was getting worse and worse, eventually someone ran into the back of it, bent the bumper under, got the money for that, bent bumper back up, and it drove for awhile.

That car took a beating though, my dad was a traveling salesman so it really got abused.

Seems fords seem to have tranny problems over engine problems though.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-04-06, 07:47 PM
Yeah, Ford definetly has a problem with trannys.

The Town Car is one of Fords best designs. It's simple, reliable and time tested.

codewize
10-04-06, 11:40 PM
A buddy of mine had a Town Coupe with some fancy carb on it that no one could fix. The couple mechanics that looked at it told us the carb was so complicated that it belonged on military aircraft and not on a car.

Ford has never done anything simple which is where most of the problems come from. They're wiring designs are worse than Jaguar / Lucas Electric.

The dealer also told us that they never made a Town Coupe'. Dumb ass. We tried to explain to him that there was one sitting outside that we drove here in but he didn't listen.

GreenMachine
10-04-06, 11:55 PM
^those from the 70's if I recall.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-05-06, 08:37 AM
A buddy of mine had a Town Coupe with some fancy carb on it that no one could fix. The couple mechanics that looked at it told us the carb was so complicated that it belonged on military aircraft and not on a car.

Town Coupes were made from '75 or so to about '81. That means they had the 460,400,351 or 302. I think all of those motors used the Motorcraft carburators correct? I think the only carb that people have trouble with because it's so finicky and complicated is the Quadrajet..which was never used on Fords..I think.

codewize
10-05-06, 09:03 AM
Correct. It was an 80' with a Motorcraft carb on a 351. I don't know if Quadrajet was ever used on Ford but they were a real peach too. Ran like hell when they were in good shape but cause many many headaches if something went wrong.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-05-06, 07:42 PM
Yeah. With the Quadrajets, it takes a very talented hand to fix it and keep it running, but when it's up it's UP!!

digitalcaddie
10-26-06, 04:13 PM
I've had one headgasket go bad which forced me to sell my '96 STS. Now I've got a '97 SLS and like others have stated the performance is awesome. I love dropping the hammer and listening to that V-8 wind up...sounds awesome and the car MOVES. I have no idea why people want to soup-up Honda Civics which sound like motorcycles whining when a deep V-8 rumble is the sign of true power. The Fast and the Furious was a stupid movie... Anyway my dad was amazed that I was cruising around town at 45mph and the engine was only at 1100 rpm. Thats the idle speed on his Accord. Its also nice in the summer time when you pull up to a stoplight with the windows down and you can hardly hear the engine running. If I could get my suspension to ride smoothly, I'd never buy another car.

Murphyg
10-26-06, 07:01 PM
Just gotta love that Get Up And GONE :burn:
Even at highway speeds. Mash it and launch.

One thing Ive been noticing alot latelly.
Getting major eyeballs whenever crossing paths with a new Mustang.
Never side by side though. Is always at cross roads or driving past eachother in opposite directions.
Sure my 300 horses are no match for the GT500. But havent seen alot of them anyways. Only ones I have seen are as Im passing them on the highway. And crawling in the middle lane being driven by women ?? :eek:

But as for the rest of them....At first I thought it was my imagination.
But as time went by Im preety sure they're gunning me off.
Must be envy lol :worship:

Good budy of mine just bought one with the 6 in it. He's a major Stang fanatic but this one he hates. That was made very clear when his son suggested the two of us go for it.
He said not a chance son. That N# would kill this piece of crap. LOL

The've been speaking for themselves for years.

GreenMachine
10-26-06, 11:20 PM
You must mean GT right? GT500 models are limited production super charged with only manual transmissions. There's a pony package thats changes the looks of the regulars, but I doubt you're seeing many GT500's.

Yeah an STS would beat the V6's, but then power to weight start to factor in versus the V8. Ah man I can't wait until the Camaro is back :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-26-06, 11:29 PM
I sooooo wanna drive another N* car. We've got a '97 STS at work, but I don't really wanna deal with the salesmen! lol!

Murphyg
10-27-06, 04:35 PM
You must mean GT right? GT500 models are limited production super charged with only manual transmissions. There's a pony package thats changes the looks of the regulars, but I doubt you're seeing many GT500's.

Yeah an STS would beat the V6's, but then power to weight start to factor in versus the V8. Ah man I can't wait until the Camaro is back :)

Ya thats what I said exactly.
Ive only seen a couple of the 500s and they were just puddlin along on the highway being driven by women.

nigelb
10-27-06, 04:56 PM
here in the UK the N* and cadillacs in general are very under rated and are not popular.
tell someone you own a caddy and they think big fins, not modern sleek cars.
biggest drawback with my STS is that it resembles an Audi A8.

i've owned 2 N* powered cars and never had a head gasket problem yet
oil consumption has always been acceptable and i change the oil when the indicator reaches about 50%

i've not had any other real issues and my current car is only now starting to show a few common problems, ABS pump failed (some cars in the US had recalls) CKP's failed, common problem with mexican originals, and i've changed all the rotors.

at 188k miles i challenge a beemer or merc owner to say they've not spent more money on replacement parts and at 188k i'll still out run them

i own the only STS for literally miles and i enjoy the exclusivity.
drive along ang every where you look are lexus, bmw and mercs.

i can drive hundreds of miles and not see another STS

GreenMachine
10-27-06, 05:49 PM
Ya thats what I said exactly.
Ive only seen a couple of the 500s and they were just puddlin along on the highway being driven by women.

They must be enthusiests then, strange their doing that, sure its not the pony package or stripe job your seeing? I know their a 2007 model and have a sticker around mid-40's but predicted to sell for over sticker. Haven't seen them at dealers yet.

Murphyg
10-30-06, 04:58 PM
Have slowed down to take a closer look. They're the GT500.
One is a Green color with the black stripes. Definatelly a 500 though. Not the most attractive green but it does look quite nice on that car. Think its driven by a red head.
Other one I see alot. Must live in my town as well as take the same route as I do. Black convertible with interior tan leather. Looks really nice. Older blond women driving that one. First time I saw it was sittin at the window in the burger joint with my daughter admiring it with its top down while watching the storm clouds roll in. It got a bit wet lol. Shame.
The other one is Orange and also a 500. Only seen that one twice on the highway. Brunette drivin that one.
All the others I see are generally red or silver. The odd black one though. And they're all the V6s. And quite a few of them around. But they're all driven by men. Quite odd that it seems to work out like that.

rugby2
11-03-06, 11:28 AM
I just bought a 97 deville with 116k 24hrs after leaving lot ck coolent went on. turns out has a head gasket problem. also oil pressure due to gunk in pan,screen pick up line etc. was going to fix, got in dealer said eng was crap(now they tell me) best to buy used eng. they get one for 3.1k do some work on tensioners, and coolent pipes(were rusted) say 4.8k asking me for 2.8k. I call up and find used ones for $800 with 75 k, one for 42100 and $200 to ship with only 19k on it. problem is dealer already used the alleged 3.1k eng. They refuse to refund $$. Will give credit on another car in stock(good luck neg. a price off the asking) they had to know were selling a lemon! after asking various car nuts/mechanics, checking internet I would never buy a northstarr again. how can you spend that kind of $ on a new car, and be lucky to get 100k before oil pan gets clogged. head gaskets go? as I understand it problems with leaking coolent due to dex cool. needs pellits. etc. head gaskets often go around 100k. worse due to layout of eng, cost 3 times as much to work on as normal eng. some blame meterlugical makeup of block, heads, gaskets, interaction with coolent etc. bottom line eng is a piece of crap. pray dealer stands behind you if buy used. best buy new, and dump before warranty expires?why wouldn't you buy a 3 yr old lexus in 1st place, avoid mainence headaches?

Ranger
11-03-06, 03:59 PM
"oil pan gets clogged"
"leaking coolent due to dex cool"
"needs pellits"
"interaction with coolent"

You buy a 9 yr. old car with 116K on it, no idea of how or if it was maintained, don't check it out and then blame the engine. :rolleyes:
You are so badly misinformed that I don't know where to start.

"why wouldn't you buy a 3 yr old lexus in 1st place"
Why didn't you buy a 3 year old Deville?

dkozloski
11-03-06, 04:15 PM
"oil pan gets clogged"
"leaking coolent due to dex cool"
"needs pellits"
"interaction with coolent"

You buy a 9 yr. old car with 116K on it, no idea of how or if it was maintained, don't check it out and then blame the engine. :rolleyes:
You are so badly misinformed that I don't know where to start.

"why wouldn't you buy a 3 yr old lexus in 1st place"
Why didn't you buy a 3 year old Deville?

You're wasting your time Ranger. This guy got stung in a horse trade and is looking for someone else to blame for his stupidity. Now he's trolling for an argument.

Ranger
11-03-06, 04:31 PM
Yeah, that's obvious and I feel sorry for him, but there is so much misinformation and venum I just had to add my $0.02. I hear most Lexus dealerships don't even have service bays because they never need repairs. Hope Rugby has better luck with it.

Murphyg
11-03-06, 05:56 PM
Yeah, that's obvious and I feel sorry for him, but there is so much misinformation and venum I just had to add my $0.02. I hear most Lexus dealerships don't even have service bays because they never need repairs. Hope Rugby has better luck with it.

Bought from a dealer and 24 hrs later its his expense.
Must have bought as is.
But even with that, most dealers will give "at least" 3 days warranty. If he didnt even have that in the aggrement then he was askin for it and no sympathy here. Lets be serious here. If they wouldnt even give that, any half inteligent individual would question it.

As to the Lexus service bays.
I do know that there are a few Lexus Body Shops in this area.

Dont need service but they seem to crash alot hmmmmmmmmmmm

Reminds me of a few years back; gettin off the highway behind what looked like a fairly new Lexus, and wonderin what it was that seemed to be hangin from underneath.
Then the whole exhaust system dropped.
Good thing he was goin slow on the ramp. That would have been quite the mangled mess if it happened on the highway.

Maybe thats why all the body shops.
Things keep fallin off ? :eek:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-04-06, 12:37 PM
I just bought a 97 deville with 116k 24hrs after leaving lot ck coolent went on. turns out has a head gasket problem. also oil pressure due to gunk in pan,screen pick up line etc. was going to fix, got in dealer said eng was crap(now they tell me) best to buy used eng. they get one for 3.1k do some work on tensioners, and coolent pipes(were rusted) say 4.8k asking me for 2.8k. I call up and find used ones for $800 with 75 k, one for 42100 and $200 to ship with only 19k on it. problem is dealer already used the alleged 3.1k eng. They refuse to refund $$. Will give credit on another car in stock(good luck neg. a price off the asking) they had to know were selling a lemon! after asking various car nuts/mechanics, checking internet I would never buy a northstarr again. how can you spend that kind of $ on a new car, and be lucky to get 100k before oil pan gets clogged. head gaskets go? as I understand it problems with leaking coolent due to dex cool. needs pellits. etc. head gaskets often go around 100k. worse due to layout of eng, cost 3 times as much to work on as normal eng. some blame meterlugical makeup of block, heads, gaskets, interaction with coolent etc. bottom line eng is a piece of crap. pray dealer stands behind you if buy used. best buy new, and dump before warranty expires?why wouldn't you buy a 3 yr old lexus in 1st place, avoid mainence headaches?


Well that makes one bad responce out of 60, I'll still go with a Northstar over ANY Lexus. Oh and have fun with your glorified Toyota. :)

AlBundy
11-04-06, 07:39 PM
rugby2 needs to read that thread started by Bluemoon and finished by Bbob.

High Oil Consumption, Pulled Headbolts, Blown Head Gaskets, Bars Leak, Unstable Temps ...good read.

GreenMachine
11-05-06, 08:33 AM
Funny thing, I can't recall seeing even half or a quarter as many late 90's Lexus as I do late 90's caddys (or any that look as good)....that should say something about the longitivity of these cars. People dump caddy's over a head gasket problem...people dump the Lexus after the timing belt goes? 100% of the Lexus will need a new timing belt at some point, not even 25% of caddy's have head gasket issues.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-06, 03:51 PM
Don't even get me started on Toyota/ Lexus. Cars for those who don't care or know about cars...

blb
11-06-06, 08:32 AM
People dump caddy's over a head gasket problem...people dump the Lexus after the timing belt goes? 100% of the Lexus will need a new timing belt at some point, not even 25% of caddy's have head gasket issues.

...comparing a scheduled maintenance item on a Lexus to major engine failure on a Caddy which involves dropping the entire front suspension, engine and transmission to repair....now that makes sense! LOL

GreenMachine
11-06-06, 03:36 PM
have you looked up what goes into a timing belt replacement on them? The job at a dealer or side shop is quite expensive. Most people dump them before then. I guess your right though the comparision isn't quite equal, then again the Lexus engines are RWD and don't put out the power that the Northstar does (well when comparing year to year and price range to price range).

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-06-06, 04:54 PM
I drove a L37 Northstar in a '99 ETC today. Wasn't real impressed with it, not enough low end grunt, and you had to practically floor it to get anything out of it. I kind of think of it as Cadillac's VTEC. Looks like an LD8 SLS is my favorite Northstar Cadillac, most specificially, a 94-95 SLS.

cadillac matt
11-22-06, 04:06 AM
I thought I'd chip in here...

Yes - I'd recommend a Northstar engine powered caddy to a friend, though I'd tell them to try to go for at least a 2000 since there were significant engineering improvments implemented from that year onward. I bought mine with 86k on it and it had been meticulously cared for. I did have a bit of an oil consumption problem, but semi-frequent WOTS have greatly improved it.

I did read through this thread and there was some Ford slamming going on. I have returned to the Cadillac fold with this car - but I did drive a 94 thunderbird for 11 years and put 286k miles on it. It was an extreemly faithful car. I sold it for $250 dollars to a friend and he is still driving it. I trust that my Deville with go even farther, but that will only happen - in any car - with faithful maintainence

Richsap
11-22-06, 09:36 AM
I'm new to Cadillac and the N* engine. From an engineering standpoint (I are one) it appears to be a fairly well thought out powerplant. I really like the fact that the crankcase holds 8 quarts but only needs 3 or 4 quarts to run. Combined with an oil level sensor this is ideal.

The power of the engine is pretty good considering that they still had to meet EPA standards as well. Gas mileage is actually not bad when you consider the weight of the car (I have a '95 Deville Concours). So far I've verified about 17.5 mpg combined city/highway, and that was before replacing the FPR yesterday.

I've owned four cylinder driven cars that were harder to work on, and I've driven four cylinder cars that were faster out of the gate (but no guts for the long haul). I've never, in my 30 years of driving, owned a car with a better ride than this '95. Okay, maybe I've been deprived. No, just consistantly broke!

cadzille99
11-22-06, 07:33 PM
I have a 99 seville with a northstar with blown head gaskets, dealer quoted 5300.00 to fix. but when they pulled the motor they found a cracked block also. well now the quote is above 9000.00 for a new motor and labor. You have to ask your self is the car worth it? In my case I found a used motor and it still cost me 5500.00 with labor.

chazglenn3
11-23-06, 01:03 AM
I bought a remanufactured Northstar with a 3yr/unlimited mile warranty for $2700...$6000 installed.

blb
11-23-06, 08:39 AM
Anyone who is not mechanically inclined or without deep pockets should think twice about a used Northstar. I visit many other automotive boards daily, and the Northstar boards, by far, have the most incidents of 5 and 6 year old cars needing expensive head gasket jobs or new engines.....and these are cars that are generally not beat on. Go to the GM F body forums or Corvette forums and you don't see near the number of catastrophic engine failures on cars that are generally run much harder. On a positive note, used Northstar Caddys are a dime a dozen around here and the ones for sale with major engine problems can be bought for next to nothing, so if you don't mind turning a wrench, you can pick up a cheap, fun, quick, comfortable, fuel efficient car great for local driving. Hopefully the design changes made to address the Northstar headgasket issues in model year 2004 will bring these engines up to the quality and reliability levels more consistent with some of the competitor's high end offerings.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-23-06, 07:18 PM
Here's a question for you Northstar buffs...

Why the split block design? Why is it a three piece block? Is it an idea they got from GM's experience on the race circuits?

Ranger
11-23-06, 08:47 PM
Not positive, but I believe I recall the Guru mention something about being a one piece main bearing it is stronger and better suited for a high performance engine that the Northstar was designed as.

GreenMachine
11-23-06, 10:06 PM
Anyone who is not mechanically inclined or without deep pockets should think twice about a used Northstar. I visit many other automotive boards daily, and the Northstar boards, by far, have the most incidents of 5 and 6 year old cars needing expensive head gasket jobs or new engines.....and these are cars that are generally not beat on. Go to the GM F body forums or Corvette forums and you don't see near the number of catastrophic engine failures on cars that are generally run much harder. On a positive note, used Northstar Caddys are a dime a dozen around here and the ones for sale with major engine problems can be bought for next to nothing, so if you don't mind turning a wrench, you can pick up a cheap, fun, quick, comfortable, fuel efficient car great for local driving. Hopefully the design changes made to address the Northstar headgasket issues in model year 2004 will bring these engines up to the quality and reliability levels more consistent with some of the competitor's high end offerings.
I think the main thing is along with the cars being not driven hard, people don't bother to do maintance, its easy for a car that comeing of a lease, and sent to the used section, to miss that lucky number for coolant changes and slip threw the cracks of maintance.

IN all honesty in my area I see alot more pre-2000 (and them 2000-2005 deville body styles seem to be everywhere too) than I see F-body vehichles on the road.

Murphyg
11-23-06, 10:13 PM
Love my N#
Guy in the unit beside my work.......Says his moms is a piece of crap. Both 01s.
Was just askin him about it 2 days ago.
Told him they are perticular on general maintanance. Really have to do what the book says.
Told me that his brother is driving it now, and that his brothers friend is a mechanic, and hes been the one taking care of it, and he knows how to take care of cars.

So guess nuff said there

davesdeville
11-24-06, 09:34 PM
Not positive, but I believe I recall the Guru mention something about being a one piece main bearing it is stronger and better suited for a high performance engine that the Northstar was designed as.

Yep, it's like a factory main girdle, but better. :thumbsup:

digitalcaddie
09-27-07, 03:31 PM
I'll chip in here for Lexus vs. Cadillac. I've got a '97SLS...the previous owner left some cigarette burns in the interior as well as some other stains...didn't really maintain the passenger cabin at all. However, through some good tips from the forum here and some elbow grease, I've got the thing running pretty well.

I got married to a little lady 2 months ago who has driven a '96 Lexus ES300 for 6 years. She's very picky about being clean/neat and her car is no exception. The body/paint of the Lexus looks brand new while the interior is flawless. That being said, she prefers to drive my dirty Cadillac (pisses me off how badly the previous owner treated his car) more than her spotless Lexus due to the way it drives, handles and rides. She's got a little bit of a lead foot and said she likes how the Caddy easily accelerates to 80 and feels very stable and safe.

As for my opinion, I'm 6-6 and can't fit in her car...case closed.

Murphyg
09-29-07, 08:36 AM
Ive been hearing that more and more. And its usually from die hard import drivers.
I remember the first time I heard it. Was just after I got my 01. This guy is import all the way. For the life of me I didnt expect anything near a compliment from him. But he was going on about the technology and what not, but what really impressed him with Cadillac is how spacious they are. Kept bugging me to take him for a ride.
I hear it from others as well after they take a look at it. "Wow look at all the room!" My guess is that many dont even look at Cadillac till "after" they buy there imports.
As far as Im concerned a luxury car should be comfortable. But how can you be comfortable, no matter what other luxury items are included, if it feels like your crammed into bread box.

kelownacaddy97
10-17-07, 12:17 PM
I had never owned a Cadillac N* before and recently bought one (1997 SLS) at the auction for $2,500 and then found out it hadheadgasket problems and slowly the overheating got worse and worse. That being said, I absolutely love the car and it is in very nice shape for having 273,000kms on it. An elderly couple had it and drove it to California lots and towed it behind their motorhome.

It handles and drives far better than my other car with 103,000kms on it and there is nothing like it on a big highway cruise and for power and acceleration.

Now, the HG finally went and is in the shop right now being repaired at a cost of $2,500 by a good local mechanic. Local GM dealer wanted $4,000 and decided against them because no doubt they would find another $1,000 in repairs to do. In the end, I figure I will be into the car for $5,000 which I would put anyone to the test to find another car/make for that type of money that would be comparable.

Oh yeah, I did have to oput a new alternator in as well!

josh42892
10-20-07, 12:24 AM
Well being that I have only owned one car since I started driving. It being my 93 STS. I have to say I like and dislike the N*. The previous owners took very good care of this car. It is starting to show signs of aging now though being I have to leave it outside of our garage since we have too many vehicles. I love driving this car and I love the power. I do not love the maintenance costs. Don't really mind the fuel economy. It gets around 19MPG average, mostly city driving through "tourist filled retard I cant pay attention to the road or the speed limit because I am too busy reading my map land" known as Central Florida. The average mpg is about the same as my parents 99 v6 Grand Caravan but personally I would rather have a car with power than spend less money on gas and drive a Prius:bigroll:.

I have no idea if the head gaskets have ever been replaced but people are pointing the problems I have had to them however I disagree. I had recently had overheating issues up the ass with this car. I left it home with my dad one day when I couldn't drive it when I went to work due to it overheating a mile from my house. He pulled the thermostat and drilled holes in it and put it back in filled it with regular water from the garden hose and no real problems since even when driving it hard. We had overheating problems with our old 91 Sedan DeVille so I just thought Cadillacs in general overheat but that car had serious issues with the owner not taking care of it changed my mind a bit. Apparently he thought it was ok to drive it without the proper amount of oil. Next thing we know we hear a sound... turns out to be a very loud rod knock. Needless to say we sold it back to him after his wife creamed it with a dodge van the size of a bus and it was rear ended by a jeep as well. But that was a 4.9l. Anyway back on track. I constantly put gumout in...not the cheap crap either that high mileage stuff, every 3 tanks usually. I check the constantly changing oil level every few days and top off and change it every 2600 miles. The car has 245,584 miles on it as of 10/19/2007 with no real big problems except one. The car shakes like it is constantly trying to down shift and up shift when in fourth gear at about 55 to 80mph don't know about higher but heh... don't feel like getting a ticket, but with this many miles on it a major problem should be expected right? A lot of the cooling components on this car have been replaced some due to age one due to the radiator fan putting a hole in the radiator somehow. The only thing to replace now is the water pump. Yes for me maintenance is the biggest turn off to the car but I like it and can't afford a newer car which would more than likely be another N* Cadillac. I really don't care what anybody says about N* and if they are junk or what not. It is my first car I love it, it drives smooth except for the shaking bs, handles like a dream, cheap insurance rates,decent gas mileage(19 city 28 highway) in this day and age of suv gas guzzling behemoths. They are a bit temperamental in my opinion though. But I still love it with all the bs included.

limoguy
10-22-07, 08:17 AM
Well..if you like power, comfort & good looks. I would say northstar is the way to go. I have owned a ford crown vic police package. My cady blows the doors off it!..buy a northstar!:thumbsup: